RE: [backstage] SVG used by Office of National Statistics in BBC business report
** This is all my personal opinion ** I think its worth noting that I have nothing against SVG... what I do have a problem with is zealotry in the face of real-world, practical content consumption. If the BBC released something as unsupported and unusable as this ONS app we would have users complaining in their droves - costing a fortune. People have had a few years to try the SVG plugins, or install a more competent browser. People expect to be able to be able to access content without installing a new browser or plugin. With SVG a very large proportion of people can't do this. yet you want to block my use of the site with Flash because you're lazy? Catering for over 95% of users vs well under 20% of users is deemed lazy... then yes I am lazy. I did suggest building several versions for people that don't have the ability to run Flash... so that pretty much 100% of users could access it. Flash (v7?) didn't come with Windows, *you* had to install it for some reason or other. What's the difference to this? Wrong. Flash v6 (which this app it appears is easily achievable in) is bundled with Windows XP. Various Flash players are bundled with IE, FF and Opera releases. I'm on a managed desktop (along with whole swathes of the corporate world) - it's installed and updated automatically. Your in a minority - one that would have got the fall-back version if it had been developed differently. I am. But why should I be a second class citizen? Why should I when my corporate-controlled desktop won't allow me to install an unsigned app? Flash, Javascript and a server-side apps would all work perfectly. I'm suggesting a solution where the app would roll back just for people who can't get the plugin - less than 5% if Flash was used? The SVG viewer suggested by ONS is 2.3mb! Standards exist so everyone can enjoy things, a concept a few companies don't understand. Huh? Nobody is arguing against standards. Its just that this one seemingly isn't finished, the plugins aren't finished and it doesn't work to a standard where it could be used by home users. Server-side processing requires being online It also requires no javascript or any plugins whatsoever. I can't imagine that hardly anyone realises that the ONS app can be run offline. J - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] SVG used by Office of National Statistics in BBC business report
Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Catering for over 95% of users vs well under 20% of users is deemed lazy... then yes I am lazy. I did suggest building several versions for people that don't have the ability to run Flash... so that pretty much 100% of users could access it. I don't agree with your argument. There are good reasons NOT to do this. 95% of users could be said to use Windows... which would be an argument for only testing on IE, if something breaks there you can't possibly do it, right? Whether you agree or not that MS has a monopoly (and the courts say that they do) this behaviour would certainly create a monopolist. Back in the days before flash was nearlly everywhere people still used it - pushing the envelope of what the web could do. SVG is just doing the same. Better plugins would be good... other routes to SVG implementation would be good (how about something that transforms to flash?) but I don't agree in not doing it even if 95% have to get a plugin to use it. Another point about SVG, if I may, is that it can be processed away from the browser. Maybe people can do mashups with the raw SVG. They couldn't do that with Flash. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Joost anyone?
Mario, I would be very pleased to accept your token. Thanks in advance. Brian Butterworth HYPERLINK http://www.ukfree.tv/www.ukfree.tv _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Menti Sent: 17 January 2007 06:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Joost anyone? On 1/16/07, Brian Butterworth HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not after a review, I wish to use it! The message I got when I signed up was to ask someone else 'who has a token' to provide me with one. And if you don't ask you don't get. Brian Butterworth HYPERLINK http://www.ukfree.tvwww.ukfree.tv Brian - let me know if you have received an invite off-list. If not, I can send you one. (Before anyone else asks, I only have this one spare token at the moment, but more may be forthcoming in future...) Mario. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36
Re: [backstage] Movies Data
This looks really useful. One thing i've noticed is the film details don't have a link to the BBC Page, so there is no way of linking back to you easily. Good point. The copies you see are the inputs to the Movies production system from which the URL's are later derived. Are we allowed to link directly to the Movies Cinema search page from any pages created using these feeds? Yup, you can do. Alternatively, the production cycle dictates the reviews will appear in a dated archive the next Friday after the date under in the datereviewed node, eg. if date review is 1st Jan 2007, the review will be added to ... - http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/gateways/release/review/cinema/20070105.shtml Or, the datereviewed node + the XML file name + .shtml will also give you the URL of the HTML review. if review is 1st Jan 2007, the XML document miss_potter_2006_review.xml - http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2007/01/01/miss_potter_2006_review.shtml Neither solution is ideal, sorry, but I hope that helps find your way around. M On 16/1/07 20:13, Adam Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This looks really useful. One thing i've noticed is the film details don't have a link to the BBC Page, so there is no way of linking back to you easily. Are we allowed to link directly to the Movies Cinema search page from any pages created using these feeds? Adam Matt Chadburn wrote: Hi, Due in part to the new BBC Movies Interactive TV service that launched today we've had the opportunity to tidy up and document the output of a few systems that create the bbc.co.uk/movies site ... - http://www.bbc.co.uk/movies/syndication/1/docs/ The service includes a few handy RSS feeds ... * Weekly Cinema Reviews - Films out in UK cinemas this week. * Coming Soon - Films out in UK cinemas in the next few weeks. * Further Ahead - Approximate release dates for Films out in the next year Along with various parts of the site in various flavours of XML ... * Film Reviews - Official BBC Movies review. Contains cast, crew etc. * User Rating - Star based user ratings. * User Comments - User submitted mini-reviews and opinions. * What's On - Films showing on the BBC this week Would love to hear from anyone with interesting ideas on what they might do with the information or any pointers on improvements we might make. And for Red Button (DSat, Freeview, DCable) fans ... With BBC Movies, you can watch video interviews, reviews, special features and trailers. Plus, you can access cinema listings for your area, win prizes, add your own reviews, and generally keep up to date on all things movies. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/bbci/ Thanks, Matt - Interactive Drama Entertainment - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] SVG used by Office of National Statistics in BBC business report
** This is all my personal opinion ** I'm not for or against publishing in any particular format - like everyone else I just want it to work. My problem was with this idea that SVG was good enough (what is 'good enough' is subjective) for this task, and should receive praise for being used. It blatently isn't 'good enough' for the vast majority of the audience, as the user experience is dreadful. Flash, whilst much better, isn't 'good enough' either, and that should have a fallback option (a couple were suggested). There is nothing stopping them publishing the data used out as CSVs, XML, ABC, XYZ, whatever, of course - and that is something that statistics.gov.uk does all the time. The BBC guidelines (to compare) on this plugin issue are pretty clear: SVG isn't to be used (without a business case to gain an exception), and For core content presented using a plugin, you MUST provide alternative content http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/newmedia/desed/multimedia_plugins_flash. shtml J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nic James Ferrier Sent: 17 January 2007 10:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] SVG used by Office of National Statistics in BBC business report Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Catering for over 95% of users vs well under 20% of users is deemed lazy... then yes I am lazy. I did suggest building several versions for people that don't have the ability to run Flash... so that pretty much 100% of users could access it. I don't agree with your argument. There are good reasons NOT to do this. 95% of users could be said to use Windows... which would be an argument for only testing on IE, if something breaks there you can't possibly do it, right? Whether you agree or not that MS has a monopoly (and the courts say that they do) this behaviour would certainly create a monopolist. Back in the days before flash was nearlly everywhere people still used it - pushing the envelope of what the web could do. SVG is just doing the same. Better plugins would be good... other routes to SVG implementation would be good (how about something that transforms to flash?) but I don't agree in not doing it even if 95% have to get a plugin to use it. Another point about SVG, if I may, is that it can be processed away from the browser. Maybe people can do mashups with the raw SVG. They couldn't do that with Flash. -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk for all your tapsell ferrier needs - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Movies Data
Matt Chadburn wrote: Would love to hear from anyone with interesting ideas on what they might do with the information or any pointers on improvements we might make. I presume the data on showing times at each cinema is provided by and therefore under the licence of the PA? -- From the North, this is Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Joost anyone?
Any idea how i can get one of those? Already registered on the beta-testers list, Appreciate it, John. On 1/17/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario, I would be very pleased to accept your token. Thanks in advance. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mario Menti *Sent:* 17 January 2007 06:52 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] Joost anyone? On 1/16/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not after a review, I wish to use it! The message I got when I signed up was to ask someone else 'who has a token' to provide me with one. And if you don't ask you don't get. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv Brian - let me know if you have received an invite off-list. If not, I can send you one. (Before anyone else asks, I only have this one spare token at the moment, but more may be forthcoming in future...) Mario. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36 -- John Griffiths http://www.red91.com
Re: [backstage] Movies Data
Matt Chadburn wrote: Would love to hear from anyone with interesting ideas on what they might do with the information or any pointers on improvements we might make. I presume the data on showing times at each cinema is provided by and therefore under the licence of the PA? Maybe. i'll look in to the contract details, which might take a few days to track down someone who knows the answer. M - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Joost anyone?
I would have built up a lot more invites myself, except there's little to watch on Venice sorry Joost besides Poker. My general thoughts about Joost is that its technology is very good and impressive. But the content really sucks. If only they could index some of the video podcasts or something Cheers, Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || cubicgarden.com || geekdinner.co.uk From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 17 January 2007 11:36 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Joost anyone? Mario, I would be very pleased to accept your token. Thanks in advance. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv http://www.ukfree.tv/ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Menti Sent: 17 January 2007 06:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Joost anyone? On 1/16/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not after a review, I wish to use it! The message I got when I signed up was to ask someone else 'who has a token' to provide me with one. And if you don't ask you don't get. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv Brian - let me know if you have received an invite off-list. If not, I can send you one. (Before anyone else asks, I only have this one spare token at the moment, but more may be forthcoming in future...) Mario. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36
Re: [backstage] Joost anyone?
My general thoughts about Joost is that its technology is very good and impressive. But the content really sucks. If only they could index some of the video podcasts or something The current content is simply for BETA testing, its current userbase is more interested in finding bugs or which features are lacking. I've heard whispers of deals being made with News International (FOX etc) as well as other major film distributors and US networks. If the encryption is sound and the audience base open to adverts in exchange for free content, there's no reason for this platform not to become an alternative to Sky or Cable. If I can watch 24, Scrubs, Family Guy and Spooks (come on BBC) on-demand via my laptop - I'll chuck my plasma TV in the skip. :o) Oh, and did anyone else hear the rumour that Coca Cola's Head of Marketing was involved in the project or will be shortly? Rob - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Joost anyone?
Email me if you'd like an invite - not sure how many I can give out though. :o) Rob evilgreenmonkey On 17/01/07, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any idea how i can get one of those? Already registered on the beta-testers list, Appreciate it, John. On 1/17/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario, I would be very pleased to accept your token. Thanks in advance. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Menti Sent: 17 January 2007 06:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Joost anyone? On 1/16/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not after a review, I wish to use it! The message I got when I signed up was to ask someone else 'who has a token' to provide me with one. And if you don't ask you don't get. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv Brian - let me know if you have received an invite off-list. If not, I can send you one. (Before anyone else asks, I only have this one spare token at the moment, but more may be forthcoming in future...) Mario. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 16/01/2007 16:36 -- John Griffiths http://www.red91.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Movies Data
Matt, It's great to see all of this data being made available. In terms of suggestions for the future, the first I would suggest is that some unique identifier needs to be given to a film. It could just be the IMDB URL or something like that, but once you have this, then when one of the films that has just been released eventually finds its way into the RSS feed for 'films on TV', we can then match it with the original review. I don't know if you've ever noticed, but in Time Out, for example, a film has a 'review', and that review is used not just when the film has just been released, but is also used if the film appears on TV years later, is released on DVD, appears in a film festival...it's even used in their annual printed film encyclopedia. The same could be done here, provided it's always possible to get back from the film to a review. Also, you could say that the information about the film, such as actors and directors, doesn't belong in the review, but in some entry for the film itself. Taking this approach would give even more flexibility. For example, if the data for the film was one thing and the review another, there would be no reason why the feed couldn't have multiple reviews of the same film. At the moment Mark Kermode's review of The Last King of Scotland is currently available as a podcast on the BBC site, and a link to that in the same feed would be excellent! (There is an RSS feed that contains a reference to this podcast, but as far as I can tell, it has no relationship to the feeds just announced.) Regards, Mark On 16/01/07, Matt Chadburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Due in part to the new BBC Movies Interactive TV service that launched today we've had the opportunity to tidy up and document the output of a few systems that create the bbc.co.uk/movies site ... - http://www.bbc.co.uk/movies/syndication/1/docs/ The service includes a few handy RSS feeds ... * Weekly Cinema Reviews - Films out in UK cinemas this week. * Coming Soon - Films out in UK cinemas in the next few weeks. * Further Ahead - Approximate release dates for Films out in the next year Along with various parts of the site in various flavours of XML ... * Film Reviews - Official BBC Movies review. Contains cast, crew etc. * User Rating - Star based user ratings. * User Comments - User submitted mini-reviews and opinions. * What's On - Films showing on the BBC this week Would love to hear from anyone with interesting ideas on what they might do with the information or any pointers on improvements we might make. And for Red Button (DSat, Freeview, DCable) fans ... With BBC Movies, you can watch video interviews, reviews, special features and trailers. Plus, you can access cinema listings for your area, win prizes, add your own reviews, and generally keep up to date on all things movies. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/bbci/ Thanks, Matt - Interactive Drama Entertainment - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Mark Birbeck CEO x-port.net Ltd. e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232 w: http://www.formsPlayer.com/ b: http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/ Download our XForms processor from http://www.formsPlayer.com/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Announcing phpconference2007 in London
hi all, I mailed the backstage email addy as to whether it was ok to post, but got no reply back, so here goes: phplondon conference 2007 23rd February 2007 @ The Keyworth Centre, London After the success of the 2006 php conference, phplondon is organising a second conference for anyone who has an interest in all things php. You will be able to listen to an exciting mix of topics from these diverse and thought provoking speakers. - Cal Evens (Zend) - My First Mashup - Simon Laws (IBM) - Web services - drop it into Apache and away you go! - Kevlin Henney - Objects of Desire - Rasmus Lerdorf (Yahoo!) - Fast and Rich Web Applications with PHP 5 - William (Bill) Gaver (Goldsmiths University) - Ludic Interfaces You will also have the opportunity to network with others and share experiences both at the conference itself and chat with the speakers informally at a special event afterwards. Early bird price is £50, or £75 on the day. To find out more and book online visit us at http://www.phpconference.co.uk thanks, paul -- __--- PHP London Member http://www.phplondon.org 1st Thursday of every month. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
