RE: [backstage] TV Feeds
Morning! 2008/7/24 Brian Butterworth 2008/7/24 Paul Clifford I sent a reply yesterday, but I think it got stuck in a moderation queue. Firstly, a quick heads-up: the episode tag is going away in favour of the programme tag. The current feed has both, to ease the transition, but episode should be gone by Wednesday or Thursday next week. I chose to use epsiode! I'll have to change the tags I'm looking at... Sorry bout that. The shape of the XML should be more stable from now on I think I found the DTD earlier today. If you did you've got more than us ;-) btw we might have a TVanytime representation of the schedule sometime soonish Another thing that would be great would be to have a link to the podcast for radio content too. Something like: media format=podcast availability5 days left to download/availability expires2008-07-30T09:32:00+01:00/expires content http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/gethin/gethin_20080719-1110.mp3 /content feedhttp://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/gethin/rss.xml/feed /media yup - that would be superb. Unfortuntely podcasts are made through an entirely separate application to PIPs. We don't have enough data to determine whether a podcast episode is (more or less) as broadcast, a shortened version or a whole new (compilation) episode. So to avoid spamming PIPs with spurious episodes we're just gonna be linking from the brand page to the podcast (the aggregation; not the episode). this will be there soon i *think* we have longer term plans to integrate pips and podcast production which would give us podcastability at every point of aggregation rather than just closed sets of brands. but that's way down the line We don't have very accurate information about future iPlayer availability. Overall, the average difference between the expected and actual start of availability is 3.75 hours. Looking more closely, where the difference is less than 1 day (~95% of the time) the average is 2.5 hours, and where it's more than 1 day (~5%) the average is 1.5 days. Is that still useful? That seems like ages... it is certainly less time for audio I think. yeah audio availability tends to be a lot more predictable. but since we have mixed radio and telly episode aggregations we can't really show it for one and not for the other. And 3.75 hours is quite a gap... Information about UK/non-UK availability isn't stored in the PIPs database at the moment, so we don't have access to it. I believe that will change in the future, but I'm not sure when. We also don't have any links between iPlayer video and News video, so unfortunately we can't point to the latter as an alternative for non-UK users. Hopefully that'll change, but I'm not sure if anyone's working on it at the moment. Would be nice to have. I was thinking of knocking up an interface to the content for non-UK users, but no definite plans. i wonder why the same content appears to have one set of rights on iplayer and /programmes and another set on news? anybody know? winmail.dat
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
2008/7/25 Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Morning! And it seems to be a good one! 2008/7/24 Brian Butterworth 2008/7/24 Paul Clifford I sent a reply yesterday, but I think it got stuck in a moderation queue. Firstly, a quick heads-up: the episode tag is going away in favour of the programme tag. The current feed has both, to ease the transition, but episode should be gone by Wednesday or Thursday next week. I think I found the DTD earlier today. If you did you've got more than us ;-) btw we might have a TVanytime representation of the schedule sometime soonish I think I meant http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/netpub3.7.graffle.pdf And it's clearly SQL tables, not a DTD. Anyway, I've used $strStartTime=$arrInfo[.START]; $strEndTime=$arrInfo[.END]; $strEpsiodePID=$arrInfo[PROGRAMME.PID]; $strEpsiodeTitle=$arrInfo[PROGRAMME.DISPLAY_TITLES.SUBTITLE]; $strNiceTitle=$arrInfo[PROGRAMME.DISPLAY_TITLES.TITLE]; $strMediaExpires=$arrInfo[PROGRAMME.MEDIA.EXPIRES]; To get the information I need, and it seems to work identically to the episode tags. TITLE/SUBTITLE has made it much easier in fact. Another thing that would be great would be to have a link to the podcast for radio content too. Something like: media format=podcast availability5 days left to download/availability expires2008-07-30T09:32:00+01:00/expires content http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/gethin/gethin_20080719-1110.mp3 /content feedhttp://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/gethin/rss.xml /feed /media yup - that would be superb. Unfortuntely podcasts are made through an entirely separate application to PIPs. We don't have enough data to determine whether a podcast episode is (more or less) as broadcast, a shortened version or a whole new (compilation) episode. So to avoid spamming PIPs with spurious episodes we're just gonna be linking from the brand page to the podcast (the aggregation; not the episode). this will be there soon Can the link go in the programme type=brand tag? Something like... programme type=brand pidb006qpgr/pid titleThe Archers/title * feedhttp://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/archers/rss.xml/feed */programme Would save having to make hits back to the brand page to find the feed. i *think* we have longer term plans to integrate pips and podcast production which would give us podcastability at every point of aggregation rather than just closed sets of brands. but that's way down the line Would be just great if the MP3 filename was formed automatically from the PID... -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] TV Feeds
Morning! And it seems to be a good one! apart from all the ants it's a beaut I think I found the DTD earlier today. If you did you've got more than us ;-) btw we might have a TVanytime representation of the schedule sometime soonish I think I meant http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/netpub3.7.graffle.pdf And it's clearly SQL tables, not a DTD. cool, glad it's come in useful. felt a bit like vanity publishing at the time so good to see people using it to help with API stuff. Maybe we should link from /programmes/developers?!? Unfortuntely podcasts are made through an entirely separate application to PIPs. We don't have enough data to determine whether a podcast episode is (more or less) as broadcast, a shortened version or a whole new (compilation) episode. So to avoid spamming PIPs with spurious episodes we're just gonna be linking from the brand page to the podcast (the aggregation; not the episode). this will be there soon Can the link go in the programme type=brand tag? Something like... programme type=brand pidb006qpgr/pid titleThe Archers/title * feedhttp://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/archers/rss.xml/feed */programme Would save having to make hits back to the brand page to find the feed. think in the first instance we'd just have it in the brand xml (/programmes/:pid.xml) so you'd have to make additional requests. trying to keep everything in it's right place as we develop and maybe repeat some data later as we see how the api is used. sorry a bit inconvenient but keeps us sane ;-) i *think* we have longer term plans to integrate pips and podcast production which would give us podcastability at every point of aggregation rather than just closed sets of brands. but that's way down the line Would be just great if the MP3 filename was formed automatically from the PID... yup. podcast aggregation would something like /programmes/:brand/episodes/nondrmdownloads.rss (maybe need to think of a new label there) and podcast episode at something like /programmes/:episode/download.mp3 not given it much thought yet - will we have to worry about multiple versions for non drm download or can we safely ignore? etc hth winmail.dat
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
I think I meant http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/netpub3.7.graffle.pdf And it's clearly SQL tables, not a DTD. cool, glad it's come in useful. felt a bit like vanity publishing at the time so good to see people using it to help with API stuff. Maybe we should link from /programmes/developers?!? Seems a good idea. How about making it work for SOAP-compatible as well? -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Sorry to be a-bug-reporting again, but the problem has now spread to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm.xml Can't call method iso8601 on an undefined value at schedules/show_day.hash line 39. 2008/7/23 Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Whoops We've found the problem Fixed on deploy tomorrow Sorry On 23/7/08 13:47, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn. I knew it was too good to be true! http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/schedules.xml and http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioscotland/programmes/schedules/fm.xml give *Can't call method iso8601 on an undefined value at schedules/show_day.hash line 39. * -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
I sent a reply yesterday, but I think it got stuck in a moderation queue. Firstly, a quick heads-up: the episode tag is going away in favour of the programme tag. The current feed has both, to ease the transition, but episode should be gone by Wednesday or Thursday next week. We don't have very accurate information about future iPlayer availability. Overall, the average difference between the expected and actual start of availability is 3.75 hours. Looking more closely, where the difference is less than 1 day (~95% of the time) the average is 2.5 hours, and where it's more than 1 day (~5%) the average is 1.5 days. Is that still useful? Information about UK/non-UK availability isn't stored in the PIPs database at the moment, so we don't have access to it. I believe that will change in the future, but I'm not sure when. We also don't have any links between iPlayer video and News video, so unfortunately we can't point to the latter as an alternative for non-UK users. Hopefully that'll change, but I'm not sure if anyone's working on it at the moment. On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, Thanks for the explanation. ISO8601 works well with PHP5 at my end! Still it's nice to know the problem is with rights being really good! Another thought about the XML structure... how about in the iplayer having audio_starts and/or video_starts tags to indicate the programmes that WILL be on the iPlayer in future, and the ETA of it being there.One could build an reserve list then. Also, under the ilayer tag it would also be handy to have a territory flag too to indicate if the content can be viewed outside the UK, or just in the UK. I know at the moment that most content is UK-only if it video, and worldwide if audio, but there are occastional exeptions. Just another one.. there is some content that can't be watched in video on the iPlayer outside the UK, like Click, but can be watched on news.bbc.co.uk (and BBC World News too). http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00crh6w (can't) http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_497/newsid_4977500/4977542.stm?bw=nbmp=wmnews=1nol_storyid=4977542bbcws=1 (can) Would be good to have tags to find content that can be viewed outside the UK on non-iPlayer places. Or simply allow BBC World News programmes to be watched on the iPlayer from anywhere, of course. 2008/7/24 Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Brian We'll be deploying code today that will fix this A brief explanation: With the move of radio into iplayer we've changed the way we handle ondemands [1] to work in the same way as TV. But for radio (unlike telly) some programmes have indefinite rights. Where this is the case the availability end date is set to null. So when the app attempts to iso8601 this end date it kills the xml, json and yaml view. An obvious one we should have probably spotted – apologies I'll remail the list when the new code goes live [1] see http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/04/shapes_of_things_to_come.shtml for how ondemands relate to episodes. 'start' datetime not null 'end' datetime null On 24/7/08 09:12, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to be a-bug-reporting again, but the problem has now spread to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm.xml Can't call method iso8601 on an undefined value at schedules/show_day.hash line 39. 2008/7/23 Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Whoops We've found the problem Fixed on deploy tomorrow Sorry On 23/7/08 13:47, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn. I knew it was too good to be true! http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/schedules.xml and http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioscotland/programmes/schedules/fm.xml give Can't call method iso8601 on an undefined value at schedules/show_day.hash line 39. -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
The XML feed are working properly again, thanks! -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Paul, 2008/7/24 Paul Clifford [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] : I sent a reply yesterday, but I think it got stuck in a moderation queue. Firstly, a quick heads-up: the episode tag is going away in favour of the programme tag. The current feed has both, to ease the transition, but episode should be gone by Wednesday or Thursday next week. I chose to use epsiode! I'll have to change the tags I'm looking at... I think I found the DTD earlier today. Another thing that would be great would be to have a link to the podcast for radio content too. Something like: media format=podcast availability5 days left to download/availability expires2008-07-30T09:32:00+01:00/expires content http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/gethin/gethin_20080719-1110.mp3 /content feedhttp://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/gethin/rss.xml/feed /media We don't have very accurate information about future iPlayer availability. Overall, the average difference between the expected and actual start of availability is 3.75 hours. Looking more closely, where the difference is less than 1 day (~95% of the time) the average is 2.5 hours, and where it's more than 1 day (~5%) the average is 1.5 days. Is that still useful? That seems like ages... it is certainly less time for audio I think. Information about UK/non-UK availability isn't stored in the PIPs database at the moment, so we don't have access to it. I believe that will change in the future, but I'm not sure when. We also don't have any links between iPlayer video and News video, so unfortunately we can't point to the latter as an alternative for non-UK users. Hopefully that'll change, but I'm not sure if anyone's working on it at the moment. Would be nice to have. I was thinking of knocking up an interface to the content for non-UK users, but no definite plans. -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Andrew, 2008/7/22 Andrew McParland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Brian is right that moving forward getting data from /programmes is probably a better idea as this is a supported BBC service rather than our temporary (ahem), experimental TV-Anytime file service and API. Internally we're looking at using /programmes, and the data source it is based on, for our research work so that we wouldn't have to maintain the backstage files and keep the API going as a separate system. Is there anything that you (or others) get from the TV-Anytime files or API that you don't get at the moment from /programmes and would like to see continue in some form? Just a couple of things... there seem to be listings for BBC Radio Scotland, but I can't find them for BBC Radio Wales, Cymru, nan Gaidheal, Ulster, Foyle and local radio stations. I'm using the EPISODE.PID value for the image for the programme in my listings, but this sometimes gives a wrong image. For example for BBC HD tonight... http://www.ukfree.tv/b/output/bbchd_programmes_schedules.htm 21:00 Dan Cruickshank's Adventures in Architecture Dreams and 22:00 The Mighty Celt both have a generic BBC Two image as their picture. It would also be nice if the listings had the URL of the programme's page (say, like http://bbc.co.uk/today for the Today programme on Radio 4). --- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
A little hello from /programmes, there seem to be listings for BBC Radio Scotland, but I can't find them for BBC Radio Wales, Cymru, nan Gaidheal, Ulster, Foyle and local radio stations. Just so you know we're aware of this and working on it. But it may be a little way down the pipe :-( It would also be nice if the listings had the URL of the programme's page (say, like http://bbc.co.uk/today for the Today programme on Radio 4). Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/:pid/microsite - as in http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z/microsite - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
2008/7/23 Matthew Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED]: A little hello from /programmes, there seem to be listings for BBC Radio Scotland, but I can't find them for BBC Radio Wales, Cymru, nan Gaidheal, Ulster, Foyle and local radio stations. Just so you know we're aware of this and working on it. But it may be a little way down the pipe :-( OK. I just thought I might have missed them... It was the BBC HD one I was waiting for, and that works fine now. It would also be nice if the listings had the URL of the programme's page (say, like http://bbc.co.uk/today for the Today programme on Radio 4). That's super... it works a treat! Thanks. http://www.ukfree.tv/b/output/radio4_programmes_schedules_fm.htm Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/:pid/microsite - as in http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z/microsite - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
2008/7/22 Andrew McParland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Adam, Server kicked! Brian is right that moving forward getting data from /programmes is probably a better idea as this is a supported BBC service rather than our temporary (ahem), experimental TV-Anytime file service and API. Internally we're looking at using /programmes, and the data source it is based on, for our research work so that we wouldn't have to maintain the backstage files and keep the API going as a separate system. Is there anything that you (or others) get from the TV-Anytime files or API that you don't get at the moment from /programmes and would like to see continue in some form? Hi all, As the current developer of the Radio Times XMLTV grabber (xmltv.org) I've been wanting to support BBC Radio listings for some time, and the /programmes XML feeds seem to be a great alternative, as we have little to no contact/support from the RT developers. I have two questions: i) Is the DTD used for the /programmes XML detailed anywhere? ii) Is it possible to get listings from today to as far ahead into the future as there are listings? The Radio Times XMLTV feed uses single daily-generated files for each channel (14 days' worth of data per file) and so rather than grab on a per-day basis, I would like to be able to grab all available data in a single request. Thanks, Nick -- Nick Morrott MythTV Official wiki: http://mythtv.org/wiki/ MythTV users list archive: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest. - Benjamin Franklin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Damn. I knew it was too good to be true! http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/schedules.xml and http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioscotland/programmes/schedules/fm.xml give *Can't call method iso8601 on an undefined value at schedules/show_day.hash line 39.** * -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Whoops We¹ve found the problem Fixed on deploy tomorrow Sorry On 23/7/08 13:47, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Damn. I knew it was too good to be true! http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/schedules.xml and http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioscotland/programmes/schedules/fm.xml give Can't call method iso8601 on an undefined value at schedules/show_day.hash line 39.
[backstage] TV Feeds
Hi, Could someone give the TV feeds server a kick as i've just noticed that there hasn't been an update of TV Anytime feeds since 18-Jul-2008 10:08:27 and my site has run out of listings info :-( Thanks Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Adam, I think that the programmes feeds are now kept up-to-date instead: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2008/07/09.xml etc... 2008/7/22 Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Could someone give the TV feeds server a kick as i've just noticed that there hasn't been an update of TV Anytime feeds since 18-Jul-2008 10:08:27 and my site has run out of listings info :-( Thanks Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
Adam, Server kicked! Brian is right that moving forward getting data from /programmes is probably a better idea as this is a supported BBC service rather than our temporary (ahem), experimental TV-Anytime file service and API. Internally we're looking at using /programmes, and the data source it is based on, for our research work so that we wouldn't have to maintain the backstage files and keep the API going as a separate system. Is there anything that you (or others) get from the TV-Anytime files or API that you don't get at the moment from /programmes and would like to see continue in some form? Cheers, Andrew BBC Research Brian Butterworth wrote: Adam, I think that the programmes feeds are now kept up-to-date instead: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/programmes/schedules/london/2008/07/09.xml etc... 2008/7/22 Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Could someone give the TV feeds server a kick as i've just noticed that there hasn't been an update of TV Anytime feeds since 18-Jul-2008 10:08:27 and my site has run out of listings info :-( Thanks Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] TV Feeds
On Tue, 2008-07-22 at 17:21 +0100, Andrew McParland wrote: Adam, Server kicked! Thanks Brian is right that moving forward getting data from /programmes is probably a better idea as this is a supported BBC service rather than our temporary (ahem), experimental TV-Anytime file service and API. Internally we're looking at using /programmes, and the data source it is based on, for our research work so that we wouldn't have to maintain the backstage files and keep the API going as a separate system. Is there anything that you (or others) get from the TV-Anytime files or API that you don't get at the moment from /programmes and would like to see continue in some form? Having a quick comparison of the TV Anytime and Programmes XML the main difference is genre information. This appears on the program detail pages, but not on the program list xml. Other data in the TV Anytime feeds that could be usful, but i don't currently use: * Related Media details (ie normally a link to the show homepage) * Keywords * Accessibility info - whether caption and subtitles are available. * Credits list - its not available for many programs, so i've never seen the point in using it. I'll try and find some time over the next few weeks to switch over to the Programmes API. Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
