Re: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash
On 30/07/07, James Bridle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The software runs without your knowledge, although you agree to this in the terms and conditions. Splorf! -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash
That IS funny, but how many folks ever ever read the t's and c's? I know I don't: http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php and http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000892.html S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer Sent: 30 July 2007 12:51 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash On 30/07/07, James Bridle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The software runs without your knowledge, although you agree to this in the terms and conditions. Splorf! -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:25:10 +0100, James Bridle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Outside the DRM/platform debate around the iPlayer, here's another alleged issue that may end up affecting far more users as it is a lot more comprehensible to non-geeks. The fact that it's propagating via Facebook is proof of this alone. Essentially, people are claiming that 4od, Sky Anytime and now the iPlayer are 'stealing' their bandwidth by using p2p to distribute their programmes. A case of lack of good information that might provoke a damaging consumer backlash? Funny you should post this. The second post on the Facebook discussion board for the iPlayer app was about Kontiki: http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2507680285topic=2850 Can anyone guess what the first one was? ;-) Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash
With regards to EULAs, I think we all saw from the Sony DRM 'incident' that EULAs have been ruled virtually unenforceable. I'm prepared to seed content I've downloadd whilst it's downloading, and maybe seed it for a little while afterwards, but I'm much less generous than when I'm torrenting because the content will always be available from the BBC servers, and we are paying for this service after all. Here's hoping that the BBC takes onboard the suggestions from people like me with regards to the ability to control whether your client seeds content once you've downloaded it... Here's hoping the Kontiki client can actually be configured to do so! I foresee ISPs enforcing QoS for upload data from Kontiki so that it slows to a crawl as a way around this... But that won't be after a whole load of huge bills from providers to customers, along with the associated uproar and a few months of in-circles discussion as to how the best way to proceed to counter-act this unwanted behaviour will be. Maybe the Beeb WILL just drop Kontiki eventually and do what BBC America is doing, using Vuze as their CDN and just keeping the DRM backend for the geoip authorisation? (as has been mentioned before)... It's starting to look more and more like that viable solution for the interim! -Original Message- From: Simon Cobb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 30 July 2007 13:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash That IS funny, but how many folks ever ever read the t's and c's? I know I don't: http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php and http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000892.html S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer Sent: 30 July 2007 12:51 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash On 30/07/07, James Bridle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The software runs without your knowledge, although you agree to this in the terms and conditions. Splorf! -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Kontiki Backlash
On 30/07/07, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With regards to EULAs, I think we all saw from the Sony DRM 'incident' that EULAs have been ruled virtually unenforceable. I'm prepared to seed content I've downloadd whilst it's downloading, and maybe seed it for a little while afterwards, but I'm much less generous than when I'm torrenting because the content will always be available from the BBC servers, and we are paying for this service after all. Here's hoping that the BBC takes onboard the suggestions from people like me with regards to the ability to control whether your client seeds content once you've downloaded it... Here's hoping the Kontiki client can actually be configured to do so! I foresee ISPs enforcing QoS for upload data from Kontiki so that it slows to a crawl as a way around this... But that won't be after a whole load of huge bills from providers to customers, along with the associated uproar and a few months of in-circles discussion as to how the best way to proceed to counter-act this unwanted behaviour will be. Maybe the Beeb WILL just drop Kontiki eventually and do what BBC America is doing, using Vuze as their CDN and just keeping the DRM backend for the geoip authorisation? (as has been mentioned before)... It's starting to look more and more like that viable solution for the interim! So far my graphical network monitor traffic stats show iPLayer only uploading while actually downloading, using circa 70% upload bandwidth. Perhaps it's been set to a 'semi-p2p' where the client machines support the BBC servers by uploading only during actual downloads. My guess is that when evening comes it may become more active (it's supposed to be 'dynamic') - if the BBC servers start to struggle we may see heavier action. Very little info on Kontiki - owned by Verisign, duh. Wayback Machine is overloaded right now - can't look at their earlier sites heh heh, I'll try that early in the morning. I'm a big Azureus fan - not tried Vuze, essentially a skinned DRMd AZ2.5 with tweaks hidden but available: http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/Azureus_2_and_Vuze Azureus 2.5 has binaries for Win/Linux/MAC/BSD but Vuze is Win only d/t DRM I guess. Regards, Nico Morrison __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: nicomorrison __ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
