Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website. Second choice, the manufacturer's website. The issue is the driver. My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently released and still bleeding for a backup server? I understand upgrade headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. Patti Clark Sr. Linux System Administrator Oak Ridge National Laboratory On 10/18/19, 8:28 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: Hello, Have any of you deployed RHEL 8/Centos 8 and would be willing to share what HBA card they are using? Anyway, attempting to purchase HBA card and looking for a way to figure out what will work without having access to the tape library. Lets say that you don't have access to the tape device, but you have a server that have RHEL 8 installed. You plug in a SAS HBA card in the slot and bring it up and them on the console, you want to check if the card is supported by the operating system. What would one check? This is what I have done and not viable test without the storage system: [root@eng-backup02 ~]# lsscsi -g [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sda /dev/sg0 [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sdb /dev/sg1 [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM ULTRIUM-HH6 E4J1 /dev/st0 /dev/sg2 [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM UHDL 0091 /dev/sch0 /dev/sg3 The /dev/sg2 and /dev/sg3 only show up with the tape library attached. If I de-attach the tape, but leave the HBA card on the system, the device disappears. I have also attempted this: lspci -nn The problem with this is even a HBA card that I know will not work when I attach the tape library is detected by the operating system and will be listed on lspci result. So I can't ask someone remote to use that to separate supported to unsupported. So what else can one do the achieve this objective? Regards, William ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On 21/10/2019 15:14, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote: > Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website. Second > choice, the manufacturer's website. The issue is the driver. > > My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently > released and still bleeding for a backup server? I understand upgrade > headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. Rhel8 isn't the issue. Dell PERC controllers ARE. https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-perc-h710p-spec-sheet.pdf This is a MPTSAS raid card, not a HBA. It will _probably_ work OK for you if it's detecting the tape drive and tape library but experience shows they work better in full HBA mode. > > Patti Clark > Sr. Linux System Administrator > Oak Ridge National Laboratory > > On 10/18/19, 8:28 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: > > Hello, > > Have any of you deployed RHEL 8/Centos 8 and would be willing to share > what HBA card they are using? > > Anyway, attempting to purchase HBA card and looking for a way to figure > out what will work without having access to the tape library. Lets say that > you don't have access to the tape device, but you have a server that have > RHEL 8 installed. You plug in a SAS HBA card in the slot and bring it up and > them on the console, you want to check if the card is supported by the > operating system. > > What would one check? This is what I have done and not viable test > without the storage system: > > [root@eng-backup02 ~]# lsscsi -g > [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sda /dev/sg0 > [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sdb /dev/sg1 > [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM ULTRIUM-HH6 E4J1 /dev/st0 /dev/sg2 > [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM UHDL 0091 /dev/sch0 /dev/sg3 > > The /dev/sg2 and /dev/sg3 only show up with the tape library attached. > If I de-attach the tape, but leave the HBA card on the system, the device > disappears. > > I have also attempted this: > > lspci -nn > > The problem with this is even a HBA card that I know will not work when > I attach the tape library is detected by the operating system and will be > listed on lspci result. So I can't ask someone remote to use that to > separate supported to unsupported. > > So what else can one do the achieve this objective? > > Regards, > William > > ___ > Bacula-users mailing list > Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fbacula-users&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cea098909f2c04619d1c208d756339571%7C1faf88fea9984c5b93c9210a11d9a5c2%7C0%7C0%7C637072651860638065&sdata=sSUln1UdPfbjmefeEskRqP0EwcxuLf3wLUhFJDsHKlY%3D&reserved=0 > > > > ___ > Bacula-users mailing list > Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fbacula-users&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cea098909f2c04619d1c208d756339571%7C1faf88fea9984c5b93c9210a11d9a5c2%7C0%7C0%7C637072651860638065&sdata=sSUln1UdPfbjmefeEskRqP0EwcxuLf3wLUhFJDsHKlY%3D&reserved=0 ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On 10/21/2019 9:14 AM, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote: ... My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently released and still bleeding for a backup server? I understand upgrade headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. Why use any RHEL > 6 for any kind of server? Dima ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 4:11 PM Alan Brown wrote: > > On 21/10/2019 15:14, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote: > > Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website. > > Second choice, the manufacturer's website. The issue is the driver. > > > > My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently > > released and still bleeding for a backup server? I understand upgrade > > headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. > > > Rhel8 isn't the issue. Dell PERC controllers ARE. > > > https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-perc-h710p-spec-sheet.pdf > > > This is a MPTSAS raid card, not a HBA. It will _probably_ work OK for > you if it's detecting the tape drive and tape library but experience > shows they work better in full HBA mode. > > > > > > > > Patti Clark > > Sr. Linux System Administrator > > Oak Ridge National Laboratory > > > > On 10/18/19, 8:28 PM, "William Muriithi" wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > Have any of you deployed RHEL 8/Centos 8 and would be willing to share > > what HBA card they are using? > > > > Anyway, attempting to purchase HBA card and looking for a way to > > figure out what will work without having access to the tape library. Lets > > say that you don't have access to the tape device, but you have a server > > that have RHEL 8 installed. You plug in a SAS HBA card in the slot and > > bring it up and them on the console, you want to check if the card is > > supported by the operating system. > > > > What would one check? This is what I have done and not viable test > > without the storage system: > > > > [root@eng-backup02 ~]# lsscsi -g > > [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sda > > /dev/sg0 > > [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sdb > > /dev/sg1 > > [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM ULTRIUM-HH6 E4J1 /dev/st0 > > /dev/sg2 > > [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM UHDL 0091 /dev/sch0 > > /dev/sg3 > > > > The /dev/sg2 and /dev/sg3 only show up with the tape library attached. > > If I de-attach the tape, but leave the HBA card on the system, the device > > disappears. > > > > I have also attempted this: > > > > lspci -nn > > > > The problem with this is even a HBA card that I know will not work > > when I attach the tape library is detected by the operating system and will > > be listed on lspci result. So I can't ask someone remote to use that to > > separate supported to unsupported. > > > > So what else can one do the achieve this objective? > > > > Regards, > > William > > There appars to be some conflation of lsscsi and lspci here lsscsi will show attached SCSI targets From the lsscsi -g output, it is showing two arrays, a tape drive, and a library changer, when the library is removed, it is expected that both the tape drive and the library will no longer show. To see if the HBA is detected, lspci is the command to run. The lspci command cannot tell you if a card will or will not work with a tape library, only if the card is detected, and what driver it is using. lspci -v might be more useful than -nn Any SAS HBA (as apposed to a RAID controller) _should_ work with any SAS Tape Library. Cheers Arne ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On 21/10/2019 16:13, Dimitri Maziuk via Bacula-users wrote: > On 10/21/2019 9:14 AM, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote: > ... >> My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is >> recently released and still bleeding for a backup server? I >> understand upgrade headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. > > Why use any RHEL > 6 for any kind of server? > Because RHEL6 is EOL and won't even install on newer hardware? (EOS is some time off, but it's on life support mode now - bug/security fixes only and one of the more annoying "features" is that RHEL6 doesn't support ECN properly - it has ECN but not ECN fallback, so it can hammer the living daylights out of routers. In addition it's quite difficult to fully secure a php-using webserver on RHEL6 using stock RPMs) As for "Why use RHEL?" - Corporate policy. The scientific Linux community standardised on redhat 20 years ago and they're unlikely to change anytime soon despite arguments about other flavours being "better" (Most of them are still using Fortran code rooted in f77 which breaks if you attempt to update it, or IDL despite it being "simply awful") I spend an awful lot of time making things work in a RHEL environment when it "just works" in Debianish ones, but the choice of environment isn't my call. Everything has its positives and negatives - as Kern knows, I _really_ want Bacula to support the IBM lin_tape driver because it works far better with LTOs and changers - particularly in FC/SAS multipath environments but Baculasystems won't do that because the st driver works just fine(*) and the RHEL vs Debian arguments work in much the same way. (*) For some values of "fine" - st and sg don't handle multipathing _at all_ and you end up with door locking contention issues that have caused us issues for 15 years ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
Hi Brown, > Rhel8 isn't the issue. Dell PERC controllers ARE. > > > https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/pvaul/en/dell-perc-h710p-spec-sheet.pdf > > >This is a MPTSAS raid card, not a HBA. It will _probably_ work OK for >you if it's detecting the tape drive and tape library but experience >shows they work better in full HBA mode. Actually, I have two HBA card. The MPTSAS is only connected to the disk array. The tape storage plug on a different HBA card. Look closely at the device number assigned by Linux kernel and you will notice its two HBA - 0:2 vs 1:0:2 > [0:2:0:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sda /dev/sg0 > [0:2:1:0]diskDELL PERC H710P 3.13 /dev/sdb /dev/sg1 > [1:0:2:0]tapeIBM ULTRIUM-HH6 E4J1 /dev/st0 /dev/sg2 > [1:0:2:1]mediumx QUANTUM UHDL 0091 /dev/sch0 /dev/sg3 Regards, William ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On 10/21/19 11:00 AM, Alan Brown wrote: > I spend an awful lot of time making things work in a RHEL environment > when it "just works" in Debianish ones, but the choice of environment > isn't my call. It was a rhetorical question. Although I do think the "scientific community" is beginning to wake up: all the reproducibility whining and gnashing of tees, and singularity, are getting us there. Slowly. -- Dimitri Maziuk Programmer/sysadmin BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
Hi Arne, > There appars to be some conflation of lsscsi and lspci here > > lsscsi will show attached SCSI targets Agree > From the lsscsi -g output, it is showing two arrays, a tape drive, and > a library changer, when the library is removed, it is expected that > both the tape drive and the library will no longer show. Precisely what I observed on Friday and something new I learned on Friday. Before then, I assumed it was the HBA card :( > To see if the HBA is detected, lspci is the command to run. Its always detected, even when I know it wouldn't work. So the detection alone isn't a full proof test. >The lspci command cannot tell you if a card will or will not work with > a tape library, only if the card is detected, and what driver it is > using. lspci -v might be more useful than -nn Ah, that is definitely helpful and seem to provide a better way to evaluate support. Thanks a lot. For anyone else who may have the same issue, this is what I found based on Arne suggestion. Look out for this line. "Kernel driver in use" (I have yet to plug the tape storage system as they are in different location, but will update if it works once the HBA is delivered. I am a bit far confident though) Supported: [root@eng-backup01 ~]# sdiff -sb pci_device_no_storage__card2-2.txt pci_device_dell_storage__card2-23.txt I/O behind bridge: None | I/O behind bridge: d000-dfff [size=4K] Memory behind bridge: None| Memory behind bridge: d400-d4ff [size=16M] > > 42:00.0 Serial Attached SCSI controller: LSI Logic / Symbios > Subsystem: Dell 12Gbps HBA > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 96, NU > I/O ports at dc00 [size=256] > Memory at d4ff (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > Memory at d4e0 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=1 > Expansion ROM at d400 [disabled] [size=1M] > Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3 > Capabilities: [68] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 > Capabilities: [a8] MSI: Enable- Count=1/1 Maskable+ 6 > Capabilities: [c0] MSI-X: Enable+ Count=96 Masked- > Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting > Capabilities: [1e0] #19 > Capabilities: [1c0] Power Budgeting > Capabilities: [190] #16 > Capabilities: [150] Single Root I/O Virtualization (S > Capabilities: [148] Alternative Routing-ID Interpreta > Kernel driver in use: mpt3sas > Kernel modules: mpt3sas None supported: [root@eng-backup01 ~]# sdiff -sb pci_device_no_storage__card2-2.txt pci_device_atto_card2-2.txt Memory behind bridge: None| Memory behind bridge: d400-d4ff [size=16M] > > 42:00.0 Serial Attached SCSI controller: ATTO Technology, Inc > Subsystem: ATTO Technology, Inc. ExpressSAS H680 > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 15, NU > Memory at d4fc (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > Memory at d4fd (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > Memory at d4fe (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > Memory at d4ff
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
Hi Clark, > Try the hardware compatibility list for the card on Redhat's website. Second > choice, the manufacturer's website. The issue is the driver. Ya, its definitely driver issue. I had checked RedHat hardware compatibility list but it only list servers, not PCI cards. Essentially, it doesn't list a single HBA card. > My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is recently > released and still bleeding for a backup server? I understand upgrade > headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. Precisely, I know Centos 7 will be supported for a long time, but I also use this server to keep rsync backups so that user can recover their files easily without having to wait to a potentially off site tapes. The hot data sit on a Virtual Data Optimizer device. It does a great job, compressing and de-duplicating 84TB data into 21TB. However, Virtual Data Optimizer has a bug that I experienced once and its not going to be fixed on RHEL 7. When the physical device fill up before the logical device is full, you loose your data. That make one be too conservative on RHEL 7, but its fine on RHEL 8, hence why I am adopting it early. Regards, William ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On 10/21/19 6:00 PM, Alan Brown wrote: > On 21/10/2019 16:13, Dimitri Maziuk via Bacula-users wrote: >> On 10/21/2019 9:14 AM, Clark, Patti via Bacula-users wrote: >> ... >>> My question (rhetorical), why do you want to use an OS that is >>> recently released and still bleeding for a backup server? I >>> understand upgrade headaches, but backup servers need to be rock solid. >> Why use any RHEL > 6 for any kind of server? >> > Because RHEL6 is EOL and won't even install on newer hardware? > > (EOS is some time off, but it's on life support mode now - bug/security > fixes only and one of the more annoying "features" is that RHEL6 doesn't > support ECN properly - it has ECN but not ECN fallback, so it can hammer > the living daylights out of routers. In addition it's quite difficult to > fully secure a php-using webserver on RHEL6 using stock RPMs) > > > As for "Why use RHEL?" - Corporate policy. The scientific Linux > community standardised on redhat 20 years ago and they're unlikely to > change anytime soon despite arguments about other flavours being > "better" (Most of them are still using Fortran code rooted in f77 which > breaks if you attempt to update it, or IDL despite it being "simply awful") > > > I spend an awful lot of time making things work in a RHEL environment > when it "just works" in Debianish ones, but the choice of environment > isn't my call. > > Everything has its positives and negatives - as Kern knows, I _really_ > want Bacula to support the IBM lin_tape driver because it works far > better with LTOs and changers - particularly in FC/SAS multipath > environments but Baculasystems won't do that because the st driver works > just fine(*) and the RHEL vs Debian arguments work in much the same way. My comments for the above paragraph: Yes, a lot of decisions in Bacula and elsewhere are tradeoffs. In the case of the IBM lin_tape driver, I am sure that what you write about it being better is correct. However there needs to be a technical person familiar with Bacula to implement it, and that person needs access to such a tape setup (probably onsite). I am past the time when I am available to develop major new "tricky" technology, so this would leave either a community submission, or Bacula Systems to implement it. It is quite possible that Bacula Systems would implement this feature if it turns out to be something that a number (3 or more) of important customers want -- i.e. it is mainly a cost/benefit question for them. Best regards, Kern > > > (*) For some values of "fine" - st and sg don't handle multipathing _at > all_ and you end up with door locking contention issues that have caused > us issues for 15 years > > > > ___ > Bacula-users mailing list > Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 6:47 PM William Muriithi wrote: > > > None supported: > [root@eng-backup01 ~]# sdiff -sb pci_device_no_storage__card2-2.txt > pci_device_atto_card2-2.txt > Memory behind bridge: None| > Memory behind bridge: d400-d4ff [size=16M] > > > > 42:00.0 > Serial Attached SCSI controller: ATTO Technology, Inc > > > Subsystem: ATTO Technology, Inc. ExpressSAS H680 > > > Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 15, NU > > > Memory at d4fc (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > > > Memory at d4fd (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > > > Memory at d4fe (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > > > Memory at d4ff (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=6 > > > Expansion ROM at d400 [disabled] [size=1M] > > > Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 3 > > > Capabilities: [50] MSI: Enable- Count=1/32 Maskable- > > > Capabilities: [70] Express Endpoint, MSI 00 > > > Capabilities: [ac] MSI-X: Enable- Count=16 Masked- > > > Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting > [root@eng-backup01 ~]# > > Regards, > William Have you installed the Atto driver ? https://www.atto.com/downloads/78 (registration required) Cheers Arne ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
Hello, wt., 22 paź 2019 o 10:46 Kern Sibbald napisał(a): > (...) so this would leave > either a community submission, or Bacula Systems to implement it. > I think the Community can prepare and test the required code as Enterprise clients do not want to participate in such development. I have a two BEE customers which just simply drop lin_tape drive when they got info it is not supported under Bacula and switch to plain st. So, unless Bacula Systems decide to make an investment which could never payoff the Community should handle this. AFAIR on this list should be a patch prepared by some community developer which add support for lin_tape driver to Bacula. Unfortunate the patch was rejected by Kern at that time. I think we can use this patch and port it to the current Bacula version source code and allow a broad Community users to test this. We can add a compile time parameter which will simply enable this support and mark it extremely experimental. What do you think about it? -- Radosław Korzeniewski rados...@korzeniewski.net ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] [EXTERNAL] SAS HBA support on Linux
Hello Radek, Yes, I would like to see lin_tape support, and though I vaguely remember something about a lin_tape patch, there are a number of things necessary to get a patch accepted: 1. I must be able to get a signed CAA (copyright assignment agreement). A number of people who send patches never follow through with the CAA. (for those who have, many thanks!) 2. The patch must put the code into a new driver that can be loaded in place of the current tape driver. 3. The patch must follow our programming guidelines or not be too far from it (I can always fix a few minor things). Best regards, Kern On 10/29/19 1:57 PM, Radosław Korzeniewski wrote: Hello, wt., 22 paź 2019 o 10:46 Kern Sibbaldnapisał(a): (...) so this would leave either a community submission, or Bacula Systems to implement it. I think the Community can prepare and test the required code as Enterprise clients do not want to participate in such development. I have a two BEE customers which just simply drop lin_tape drive when they got info it is not supported under Bacula and switch to plain st. So, unless Bacula Systems decide to make an investment which could never payoff the Community should handle this. AFAIR on this list should be a patch prepared by some community developer which add support for lin_tape driver to Bacula. Unfortunate the patch was rejected by Kern at that time. I think we can use this patch and port it to the current Bacula version source code and allow a broad Community users to test this. We can add a compile time parameter which will simply enable this support and mark it extremely experimental. What do you think about it? -- Radosław Korzeniewski rados...@korzeniewski.net ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users