Re: UHJ membership and women
Indeed Jim, you are quite welcome. Richard. - Original Message - From: "Jim Habegger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Baha'i Studies" Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 3:46 PM Subject: Re: UHJ membership and women Thank you, Richard. Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan, I'm wondering if I should include this in my list of writings that might limit what kinds of ideas we can promote. List of writings? What is that supposed to mean? __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan, I'm wondering if I should include this in my list of writings that might limit what kinds of ideas we can promote. What do you think? According to Susan Maneck, the Counsellors, the ABMs, those serving on the Executive Committee of the ABS and Tony Lee said that the Universal House of Justice objected to the presentation of the paper "The Service of Women on the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith" at a Baha'i Studies conference, and prohibited its publication. (Source: Susan Maneck) Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan, are you saying that the Universal House of Justice made a formal decision, in accordance with its constitution, to prohibit the publication of that paper? If so, is there some way for me to verify that? If you say to write and ask, I will. Dear Jim, I would suggest you ask either Tony Lee or the US NSA about this. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
"Are you pointing to that letter, and your conviction that the Universal House of Justice prohibited the publication and distribution of that paper, as reasons for thinking that the House has tried to repress the topic of women on the Universal House of Justice?" Not, the topic Jim. But they have made it more than clear that the matter is not up for debate. I think the only way it could be reopened would be if someone were to make some new discoveries in this area. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan, are you saying that the Universal House of Justice made a formal decision, in accordance with its constitution, to prohibit the publication of that paper? If so, is there some way for me to verify that? If you say to write and ask, I will. Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan, I'll rephrase my question. "Are you pointing to that letter, and your conviction that the Universal House of Justice prohibited the publication and distribution of that paper, as reasons for thinking that the House has tried to repress the topic of women on the Universal House of Justice?" Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
"Then you know they objected to the presentation of the Service of Women paper at the New Zealand ABS and prohibited it's publication?" I'm aware that you think so. I haven't seen anything in any message from any Baha'i institution, that says so. Dear Jim, That is the story I got both from the authors of that article and the person who presented it (who by the way is now an ABM for Protection.) But if you doubt this you might ask the House. "Here is how the letter to the NZ LSA begins: "We have been informed of a paper, presented at a recent New Zealand Bah' Studies conference, which raises the possibility that the ineligibility of women for membership on the Universal House of Justice may be a temporary provision subject to change through a process of progressive unfoldment of the divine purpose. We present the following points as a means of increasing the friends' understanding of this established provision of the Order of Bah'u'llh that membership of the Universal House of Justice is confined to men." Is that what you mean by saying that they objected to the presentation of the letter?" I mean things like the fact that the Executive Committee was replaced because of it and they sent out a Hand of the Cause to deal with the situation. And Tony Lee received a letter telling him not to distribute that article any further. "I've seen you and some other people circulating a rumor that they prohibited the publication and distribution of the letter. I see no reason to believe it." Do you think I'm lying to you? "Have you ever written to the House to ask about it?" No reason. If the Counsellors, the ABMs, those serving on the Executive Committee of the ABS and Tony Lee are all telling me the same, chances are it's true. "You asked me about this, in response to this, from one of my posts: "Are you pointing to that letter, and that rumor, as reasons for thinking that the House has tried to repress the topic of women on the Universal House of Justice?" I don't consider it a rumor. It's a historical fact for which I have several eye-witnesses. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
"Then you know they objected to the presentation of the Service of Women paper at the New Zealand ABS and prohibited it's publication?" I'm aware that you think so. I haven't seen anything in any message from any Baha'i institution, that says so. Here is how the letter to the NZ LSA begins: "We have been informed of a paper, presented at a recent New Zealand Bah� Studies conference, which raises the possibility that the ineligibility of women for membership on the Universal House of Justice may be a temporary provision subject to change through a process of progressive unfoldment of the divine purpose. We present the following points as a means of increasing the friends' understanding of this established provision of the Order of Bah�'ll�that membership of the Universal House of Justice is confined to men." Is that what you mean by saying that they objected to the presentation of the letter? I've seen you and some other people circulating a rumor that they prohibited the publication and distribution of the letter. I see no reason to believe it. Have you ever written to the House to ask about it? You asked me about this, in response to this, from one of my posts: "In case there was any misunderstanding, I used the topic of women on the Universal House of Justice, as an example in my discussion of limits to promoting ideas, because I thought it would be a good example of a topic that some people might think the House of Justice has tried to repress" Are you pointing to that letter, and that rumor, as reasons for thinking that the House has tried to repress the topic of women on the Universal House of Justice? Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan M, yes I'm aware of the circumstances behind the House's letter to the NSA of New Zealand. Dear Jim, Then you know they objected to the presentation of the Service of Women paper at the New Zealand ABS and prohibited it's publication? warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Limits on promoting ideas
Updated list of writings that might place limits on the *kinds* of ideas we can promote: "Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead." - Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 174 "What one cannot properly do is to behave in a way that undermines the unity of the Baha'i� community, by challenging the institutional authority that is an integral part of the Faith one professes to have accepted . . ." - The Universal House of Justice, 1997 Jul 25, Removal of Baha'i Membership, M. McKenny "As you recognize, the authority of the Universal House of Justice is unchallengeable." - The Universal House of Justice, 1997 Jun 03, Interpretational Authority of the House of Justice "To none is given the right to put forth his own opinion or express his particular conviction. All must seek guidance and turn unto the Center of the Cause and the House of Justice. And he that turneth unto whatsoever else is indeed in grievous error." - Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 25 "We should try and keep as near the authority [i.e. the scripture] as we can and show that we are faithful to it by quoting the Words of Baha�ua�llah in establishing our points. To discard the authority of the revealed Words is heretic and to suppress completely individual interpretation of those Words is also bad. We should try to strike a happy medium between these two extremes. - Principles of Baha�a� Administration, pp. 24f. "The believers should be careful not to deviate, even a hair-breadth, from the Teachings. Their supreme consideration should be to safeguard the purity of the principles, tenets and laws of the Faith" - Shoghi Effendi, Dawn of a New Day, p. 61 "It is natural that the friends would discuss such matters among themselves, as you and your correspondent have been doing on your Internet discussion group; how otherwise are they to deepen their understanding of the Teachings? But they should recognize that the resolution of differences of opinion on such fundamental questions is not to be found by continued discussion, but in referring to the Universal House of Justice itself, as you have done. Prolonged, unresolved, public discussion of these fundamental questions can do nothing but breed confusion and dissension." - Letter on behalf of the House of Justice dated December 10, 1992 "In case of differences, Abdu'l-Baha must be consulted. They must revolve around his good pleasure. After Abdu'l-Baha, whenever the Universal House of Justice is organized it will ward off differences." - Abdu�l-Baha, Compilation on the Establishment of the Universal House of Justice, The Compilation of Compilations, Vol. I, p. 116 "Beware, beware lest anyone create a rift or stir up sedition. Should there be differences of opinion, the Supreme House of Justice would immediately resolve the problems. Whatever will be its decision, by majority vote, shall be the real truth, inasmuch as that House is under the protection, unerring guidance, and care of the one true Lord." - Abdul-Baha, quoted in Messages from the Universal House of Justice 1963-1986, p. 53 Letter of 31 May 1988 from the Universal House of Justice to the NSA of New Zealand, concerning a paper about women on the Universal House of Justice, that was presented at a New Zealand Bah� Studies conference. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan M, yes I'm aware of the circumstances behind the House's letter to the NSA of New Zealand. Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Susan B said: "For now, I have a book monograph that needs to be finished and at the publisher in June, and a number of other large projects that need to be completed before I can turn to new projects." Take your time. I'm in no hurry. Like I said, it's not a burning issue for me. Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: UHJ membership and women
Thank you, Richard. Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: UHJ membership and women
Dear Jim, you wrote: Our only explanation for excluding women from our supreme council, is the view of our supreme council, that God told us to make an exception for our supreme council. Adding insult to injury, we call that exception "negligeable." The meagre understanding I have of the Faith would require me, if your reasoning were my reasoning, to consider the verse quoted by a scholarly poster: Weigh not the Book of God with such standards and sciences as are current amongst you, for the Book itself is the unerring balance established amongst men" (Baha'u'llah, _Gleanings_, 198). Secondly, I would look to the origins of the requirement that the Universal House of Justice me made up of men only. It appears to have its origin with Baha'u'llah This passage, now written by the Pen of Glory, is accounted as part of the Most Holy Book: The men of God's House of Justice have been charged with the affairs of the people. They, in truth, are the Trustees of God among His servants and the daysprings of authority in His countries. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 91) It is then interpreted by Abd'l-Baha, In the law of God, men and women are equal in all rights save in the Universal House of Justice; for the Chairman and the members of the House of Justice are men according to the Text of the Book. Aside from this, in all the rest of the Associations, like the Convention for the building of the Mashrek-el-Azkar, the Assembly of Teaching, the Spiritual Assembly, Philanthropic Associations Scientific Association, men and women are co-partners in all the rights. Upon thee be Baha-el-ABHA! (signed) Abdul Baha Abbas Translated by: Dr. Ameen U. Fareed Haifa, Syria, July 29, 1909. (Abdu'l-Baha, Women on the House of Justice) And then it is confirmed by Shoghi Effendi "As regards your question concerning the membership of the Universal House of Justice, there is a Tablet from 'Abdu'l-Bahá in which He definitely states that the membership of the Universal House is confined to men and that the wisdom of it will be fully revealed in the future. In the local, as well as the National Houses of Justice, however, women have the full right of membership. It is therefore, only to the International House that they cannot be elected. The Bahá'ís should accept this statement of the Master in a spirit of deep faith, confident that there is a divine guidance and wisdom behind it, which will be gradually unfolded to the eyes of the world." "Regarding your question, the Master said the wisdom of having no women on the International House of Justice, would become manifest in the future. We have no other indication than this. "At present there are women on the International Council, and this will continue as long as it exists, but when the International House of Justice is elected, there will only be men on it, as this is the law of the Aqdas." (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 79) And, as the matter is "In the law of God, men and women are equal in all rights save in the Universal House of Justice; for the Chairman and the members of the House of Justice are men according to the Text of the Book" the the following quotation would apply, I would think, What has not been formulated in the Aqdas, in addition to matters of detail and of secondary importance arising out of the application of the laws already formulated by Bahá'u'lláh, will have to be enacted by the Universal House of Justice. This body can supplement but never invalidate or modify in the least degree what has already been formulated by Bahá'u'lláh. Nor has the Guardian any right whatsoever to lessen the binding effect much less to abrogate the provisions of so fundamental and sacred a Book..." (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 4) May God grant you all the good of this world and of the next. Richard. . __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Jim, Allah'u'Abha. Yes, should I be able to address this issue in the form of an essay later this summer, God willing, I would indeed respond to the stated and published concerns. For now, I have a book monograph that needs to be finished and at the publisher in June, and a number of other large projects that need to be completed before I can turn to new projects. I also want to thank those who have emailed me individually regarding my post. Yes, this is an important issue that we will all come to understand over time. My regards to all, Susan Dr. Susan Berry Brill de Ramirez, Professor of English Bradley University, Peoria, IL 61625 U.S.A. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; (309) 677-3888; fax (309) 677-2330 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Habegger Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:48 AM To: Baha'i Studies Subject: re: UHJ membership and women Susan B, if you write your essay, I hope you will address the issues in my long post above. Also, I hope you will address *all* the issues in the articles "Women's Service on the Universal House of Justice" and "The Service of Women on the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith" __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Limits on promoting ideas
". . . it appears to be dancing on the edge of a very slippery slope." Do you mean that it would be dancing on the edge of a slippery slope for someone to do that, or that I'm dancing on the edge of a slippery slope by saying that it wouldn't be contrary to the Covenant, or both? Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Yes. Dear Jim, If you don't give a bit of the message you are responding to, no one can tell what you are saying yes to. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: UHJ membership and women
Yes. Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: UHJ membership and women
Susan B, if you write your essay, I hope you will address the issues in my long post above. Also, I hope you will address *all* the issues in the articles "Women's Service on the Universal House of Justice" ( http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bhwmhous.htm ) and "The Service of Women on the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith" ( http://www.h-net.org/~bahai/docs/vol3/wmnuhj.htm ), including: - the assertion that Baha'u'llah wrote "men of the houses of justice" (plural) using the same word for "men" that is supposed to exclude women from the Universal House of Justice. - the assertion that Abdu'l-Baha initially excluded women from an assembly in Chicago, giving the same reason: that Baha'u'llah addresses the members of the House of Justice as "men." Jim __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
