Re: Kitab-I-Aqdas and other questions
> >Personally I don't want to read other people's commentary when I can't
> >read the original text.
> >
> >
> But we do have the text.
Dear Rich,
Amr va Khalq is a compilation with a lot of commentary. I'd much
prefer to see texts translated in their entirety so we can read them
within context.
> >Whatever Abdu'l-Baha might have said, Shoghi Effendi left no doubt
> >whatsoever that only monogamy was to be permitted.
> >
> >
> Where?
Besides Shoghi Effendi's repeated statements that the Aqdas
"prescribes monogamy" we have the following:
"Certain laws, such as fasting, obligatory prayers, the consent of
the parents before marriage, avoidance of alcoholic drinks,
monogamy, should be regarded by all believers as universally and
vitally applicable at the present time."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 341)
warmest, Susan
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Re: Kitab-I-Aqdas and other questions
Susan Maneck wrote:
I can appreciate the need to
translate all the writings, but I sometimes wonder if these commentaries
might be more helpful.
Dear Rich,
Personally I don't want to read other people's commentary when I can't
read the original text.
But we do have the text.
We've both heard folks say that Abdul-Baha
abrogated bigamy and that, now, only monogamy is permitted.
Whatever Abdu'l-Baha might have said, Shoghi Effendi left no doubt
whatsoever that only monogamy was to be permitted.
Where?
The quote
from Amr Va Khalq casts that into doubt.
Amr Va Khalq also states that women can vote but not hold office in
Baha'i Administration.
Which Abdul-Baha later reversed. He can reverse his own comentary. I'm
not suggesting that we accept commentary as revelation, but that does
bring up the point of whether or not we're ready as a community to make
that distinction. I would however like to read more of the commentary so
learning Persian I will go!
It should indeed. And Persian is a cinch compared to Arabic.
I hope so, but some of the compound verbs confound me.
Rich
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Re: Kitab-I-Aqdas and other questions
In particular, I would like to
> know whether Brent, Dr. Maneck and others view these kind of opinions as
> acceptable for a Baha'i to hold.
Dear Ron,
You'll need to be a bit more specific about which of Sen's opinions
you are talking about. My problem with Sen's views largely concerns
the fact that he so often ignores the authoritative interpretations of
the Guardian (especially if they are conveyed by his secretary) and
the elucidations of the House. This is what I think he is doing in
promoting bigamy as an option.
As for which opinions it is acceptable for a Baha'i to hold, I think
the House has made it pretty clear which of Sen's positions they find
objectionable. For instance, his position on religion and state is
refuted in the following letter addressed to him decades ago:
http://bahai-library.com/uhj/theocracy.html
The April 7, 1999 letter also condemns his position regarding the
Mashriqu'l-Adhkar operating separately from the Houses of Justice:
http://bahai-library.com/compilations/issues.scholarship.html
Their major objection to Sen's views, however, and what seems to have
gotten him removed from the rolls, was his promotion of the idea that
there should be a clerical class within the Baha'i community which
would serve to critique the elected institutions.
In regards to issues related to triumphalism, I think there is much
in the Writings that can be taken either way. Baha'is have very
opinions in this regard. I certainly don't consider myself a
triumphalist.
warmest, Susan
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Re: Kitab-I-Aqdas and other questions
> I think this gets to the heart of the matter. Since
> I believe things like you express above, Sen, am I a bad Bah'ai (at
> least in the eyes of influential and powerful people in the Baha'i
> community?) Are my beliefs acceptable? Or must I believe more like I
> think most Baha'is these days do (triumphalist, Baha'i superseding and
> replacing all other religions, etc.)
If you, like me, were to fall in this snare,
you would surely be totally inebriated by this wine and cup.
We are lovers, drunkards and debauchers, setting the world on fire
Do not sit with us, lest you get a bad name.
-- Hafez
But then, wherever you sit, there will always be some who look down
their mighty noses.
Be thou of the people of hell-fire,
but be not a hypocrite.
Be thou an unbeliever,
but be not a plotter.
Make thy home in taverns,
but tread not the path of the mischief-maker.
Fear thou God,
but not the priest.
Give to the executioner thy head,
but not thy heart.
Let thine abode be under the stone,
but seek not the shelter of the cleric.
-- Baha'u'llah
Never mind what the influential people say: what would the Master
say, how would he judge? I cannot say that anyone is good or bad,
"the good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones."
(Some Answered Questions, p. 126).
Sen
Sen McGlinn
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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and the individuality of each,
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[Fwd: Re: Urgent Help Needed]
I received this plea for help on a Baha'i list. I forward it to you in hopes that you will find time to pray for the people of Kenya. Sincerely, Sandi in Boise On 1/2/08, jonathan rezin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dear Friends, Family, and Associates, I am writing to request your assistance with an extremely challenging issue As some of you are aware my wife is from Kenya. Our family lives their now.. and are in grave danger... Within the the last 3 days there has erupted a huge campaign of violence, ethnic cleansing and tribal warfare from the alleged rigging of the presidential election leading to the re-election of Kibaki. I will not relate the details as they are all readily available on the websites I include at the bottom of this email... but the basic reality is that the country is entering a state of warfare... Marshall law has been declared by the president... a curfew... riot police are out in streets throughout the country... if you are out past curfew you are beaten or shot... looting and rioting has decimated many of the shops in the town centers... many I and my family would frequent...leaving many without basic supplies to live. The President has shut off all the radio stations... all you hear is the eerie sound of static as you scan the airwaves... The television stations are only broadcasting un-interupted movies... no news.. no announcements... Everyone in Kenya uses pre-paid calling cards for cell phones.. and the president has ordered them to stop being sold... He has stopped all flow of information internally... We had to ask our mom not to call her friends and conserve what little credit she has.. we now have to call regularly to check on the situation... even the phone networks have been going down... He has shut the water supply off to Nairobi City (the largest and most developed city in east africa)... There are frequent blackouts... The two major tribes representing the presidential opponents are Kikuyu and Luo. My Wife and Family are Luo. Kikuyus are attacking and killing Luos en-masse throughout the country... and Luo are killing Kikuyu around the country... within the last day.. mass killings have begun.. In Lou towns Kikuyus have begun killing Luos.. locking Luo social clubs while people are inside and burning them down... over 50 Kikuyu women and children sought refuge in a church after their homes were burned and an angry mob of youth locked them in the church and set fire to it killing 35... those who escaped were met on the outside with the mob... beaten... and burned to death in a kitchen garden outside the church... decimation of neighborhoods, slums, and villages where supporters of either candidate are being burned to the ground.. with people insideThese atrocities are reminiscent of the beginnings of the Genocide which took place in Rwanda (The next Door neighbor to kenya)... My Mother In Law in kenya received word from a friend in government that Kibaki was about to be announced the winner off the election and that she should rush to the grocery store because it was about to get very bad... she sent my cousins to the store to buy what food she could afford... that night 3 local social spots where my family would regularly hang out were locked up and burnt down with people inside... Luckily my family was all at home anticipating the violence to come...They are locked in their small apartment.. 2 small bedrooms in a stone apartment structure. They have a small security gate before the front door which they have padlocked shut... My brother in law... lost track of his family when their neighborhood was attacked, people killed, and burnt to the ground... he ran around searching all night and luckily he was able to locate them... they rushed to my mother in laws home... He, His Wife, and Small children had to pass through streets littered with bodies... there are now over 14 people in this tiny apartment... they only have food for a couple more days... the stores are dangerous if impossible to get to... most stores have been shut or ransacked so there is no food anyway... what food is left is being sold at very high costs... Gunshots are heard round the clock and throughout the night... I paint this picture to give an idea of the severity of the situation... I watch and feel helpless... Many who have watched Hotel Rwanda can remember that feeling of "What did we / could we have done to prevent this..." This is a similar situation... I am not sure of the best remedy for it.. but it is apparent that something needs to be done before the violence, civil unrest and massacres extend any further... How can I sit by and watch another Rwanda or Somalia take place without so much as opening my mouth... and the fact that my family is directly involved impels me to act with determination. Things may get better on their own... maybe in a few days... a few weeks... a few months... but for each day it doesn't... lives are lost.. families shattered.. and we inch c
RE: Questions on the Aqdas
Susan,
Good point. :-)
Sen's line of argument is fascinating to me since its the first I've heard of
it. But thinking it over, at the least, its too early in the Baha'i Revelation
to be worrying about specifics like that. Let the generation where governance
under the laws of the Aqdas is a real possibility to worry about the specifics.
We are a ways from there.
Hope you are enjoying the new year,
Dick
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:03:56 -0600
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
> Subject: Re: Questions on the Aqdas
>
> I do not
> > personally think, for example, that the provision in the Bayan regarding
> > bigamy in the case of a childless couple is brought forward into the
> > Baha'i Dispensation. I think that despite the Tablets Sen has quoted
> > from the Master, the entire issue of bigamy is settled by the Guardian's
> > statement that the Aqdas prescribes monogamy,
>
> Dear Brent,
>
> Not to mention the Guardian's not availing himself of such an
> exception even though it meant the end of the line of Guardians.
>
> warmest, Susan
>
>
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
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> named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy
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>
>
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Re: Questions on the Aqdas
I do not
> personally think, for example, that the provision in the Bayan regarding
> bigamy in the case of a childless couple is brought forward into the
> Baha'i Dispensation. I think that despite the Tablets Sen has quoted
> from the Master, the entire issue of bigamy is settled by the Guardian's
> statement that the Aqdas prescribes monogamy,
Dear Brent,
Not to mention the Guardian's not availing himself of such an
exception even though it meant the end of the line of Guardians.
warmest, Susan
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Re: House letter to me
Yes. It is very interesting.
"guard your eyes against that which is not seemly."
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 27)
- Original Message -
From: David Friedman
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:42 AM
Subject: House letter to me
You may find this interesting.
Dear Bahá’í Friend,
Your email letter of 7 December 2007 requesting guidance has been received by
the
Universal House of Justice and referred to our Department for response.
Your letter seeks guidance concerning films and television programmes that a
Bahá’í
should watch. However, it is neither possible nor desirable for the Universal
House of Justice
to set forth a set of rules covering every situation a believer encounters
daily. Rather is it the
task of the individual believer to determine, according to his own prayerful
understanding of
the Writings, precisely what his course of conduct should be in relation to
situations in which
he finds himself. If he is to fulfil his true mission in life as a follower
of the Blessed Perfection,
he will pattern his conduct according to the Teachings. The believer cannot
attain this objective
merely by living according to a set of rigid regulations. When his life is
oriented towards service
to Bahá’u’lláh, and when every conscious act is performed within this frame
of reference, he
will not fail to achieve his true purpose.
Therefore, every believer must continually study the Sacred Writings and the
instructions
of the beloved Guardian, striving always to achieve a new and better
understanding of their
import to him and to his society. He should pray fervently for Divine
guidance, wisdom and
strength to do what is pleasing to God and to serve Him at all times and to
the best of his ability.
With loving Bahá’í greetings,
Department of the Secretariat
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RE: Kitab-I-Aqdas and other questions
Ron asked:
"Sen, thank you for this opinion.
I find it very close to how I see things. I would like to know the
opinion of others on the list, including Brent Poirier and Dr. Maneck,
about these issues. In particular, I would like to know whether Brent,
Dr. Maneck and others view these kind of opinions as acceptable for a
Baha'i to hold. Not whether they agree with you or not
(although I would like to know that also!) but more importantly, do
they think it acceptable that a Baha'i see things this way."
Ron, I know you didn't ask me but I feel the principle touched on is so
important I'm going to throw out my .02 worth.
It is my understanding that in the Baha'i Faith there is no compulsion to
religion. I take that to mean religious practice or thought. In light of
this, I don't think your question is really a correct question to ask a Baha'i.
Your opinions, my opinions, Sen's, Susan's or Brent's are just that. Our
opinions. And we are free to have them no matter what they are. There is no
Baha'i law limiting the opinions we can have but there IS a Baha'i principle
that we should be free, open and frank in sharing our opinions no matter what
they are. We can not be punished or ostercized for any opinion we hold as an
individual.
The line gets crossed when we try to impose our opinions or practices upon
other Baha'is. When we try to compel others to think or do as we do. That is
a serious breach of Baha'i Law.
If this is a incorrect understanding, I would be appreciative if the many
learned members of this list would disabuse me of it.
Thank you,
Dick
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Re: Kitab-I-Aqdas and other questions
> Long time. Thanks for the web sites. I can appreciate the need to
> translate all the writings, but I sometimes wonder if these
> commentaries might be more helpful.
Amr wa Khalq is not a book of commentary -- it is collection of
tablets and parts of tablets by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha,
organised by topic, like Lights of Guidance. The quotes are
introduced, but one would translate it for the tablets, not for the
introductions. It is 4 volumes, so quite a substantial collection of
materials
Sen
Sen McGlinn
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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When, however, thou dost contemplate the innermost essence of things,
and the individuality of each,
thou wilt behold the signs of thy Lord's mercy . . ."
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Questions on the Aqdas
There is one law of Baha'u'llah which refers back to the Qur'anic law. In the Tablet of Questions and Answers Baha'u'llah writes: "And in the matter of Zakat, We have likewise decreed that you should follow what hath been revealed in the Qur'án." (Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 140) However, as the House of Justice points out in Note 161 to the Aqdas: "Since such issues as the limits for exemption, the categories of income concerned, the frequency of payments, and the scale of rates for the various categories of Zakat are not mentioned in the Qur'án, these matters will have to be set forth in the future by the Universal House of Justice." (Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 234) That is, those matters the House mentions are gaps in the law of the Qur'an which were filled by statements in the Hadith and by principles of Islamic jurisprudence enunciated by Muslim scholars (differently by Shi'ah and Sunni in some respects). The House of course does not indicate that it will to any degree be bound by or guided by the opinions of those scholars, but will itself make the deductions it is guided to make in those areas of exemption, categories of income, etc. There are a few places where Baha'u'llah says expressly that a law He has revealed is as specified in the Bayan. For example, in verse 137 of the Aqdas (also see Note 7) Baha'u'llah endorses the Bab's selection of the Qiblih. During the lifetime of the Manifestation, He was Himself the Qiblih, and His resting-place is ordained after His passing. There are instances in Baha'i history of believers attaining the presence of Baha'u'llah in His tent, and they circumambulated the tent. Anyway, there are many more laws of the Aqdas which have their antecedents in the laws of the Bab. In the Notes to the Aqdas, the House of Justice states that Baha'u'llah's laws of the dowry, non-use of pulpits, and exemption from prayer and fasting have their antecedents in the laws of the Bab, and that certain aspects of the Baha'i law of ablutions have antecedents in the Qur'an and the laws of the Bab. There are many other examples of Baha'u'llah's laws which have antecedents in the laws of the Bab, because the Bab revealed many laws, not so that His followers would follow them (His Dispensation being so brief), but so that Baha'u'llah would not need to trouble Himself revealing laws; He could instead endorse or somewhat modify laws of the Bab, and there are various instances of this. However, I have never seen either the Guardian or the House of Justice perform an analysis of the law of the Bab, to determine what the meaning of a law of Baha'u'llah was. While there are several instances where the House or the Guardian refers to the fact that there are antecedents in the Arabic or Persian Bayan, I cannot identify a case where the application or meaning of one of Baha'u'llahs laws is determined by a close analysis of a law by the Bab. Rather, they rely on the text of the revealed verse, plus the interpretations by the Master. I do not personally think, for example, that the provision in the Bayan regarding bigamy in the case of a childless couple is brought forward into the Baha'i Dispensation. I think that despite the Tablets Sen has quoted from the Master, the entire issue of bigamy is settled by the Guardian's statement that the Aqdas prescribes monogamy, and the House's statement in the Note 89 to the Aqdas: "While the text of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas appears to permit bigamy, Bahá'u'lláh counsels that tranquillity and contentment derive from monogamy. In another Tablet, He underlines the importance of the individual's acting in such a way as to "bring comfort to himself and to his partner". Abdu'l-Bahá, the authorized Interpreter of the Bahá'í Writings, states that in the text of the Aqdas monogamy is in effect enjoined. He elaborates this theme in a number of Tablets, including the following: "'Know thou that polygamy is not permitted under the law of God, for contentment with one wife hath been clearly stipulated. Taking a second wife is made dependent upon equity and justice being upheld between the two wives, under all conditions. However, observance of justice and equity towards two wives is utterly impossible. The fact that bigamy has been made dependent upon an impossible condition is clear proof of its absolute prohibition. Therefore it is not permissible for a man to have more than one wife.' "Polygamy is a very ancient practice among the majority of humanity. The introduction of monogamy has been only gradually accomplished by the Manifestations of God. Jesus, for example, did not prohibit polygamy, but abolished divorce except in the case of fornication; Muhammad limited the number of wives to four, but making plurality of wives contingent on justice, and reintroducing permission for divorce; Bahá'u'lláh, Who was revealing His Teachings in the milieu of a Muslim society, introduced the question of monogamy gradually in accordance with
Re: House letter to me
> Therefore, every believer must continually study the Sacred Writings and the
> instructions
> of the beloved Guardian, striving always to achieve a new and better
> understanding of their
> import to him and to his society. He should pray fervently for Divine
> guidance, wisdom and
> strength to do what is pleasing to God and to serve Him at all times and to
> the best of his ability.
>
And if you've got time for CSI after that, go right ahead. :-)
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House letter to me
You may find this interesting.
Dear Bahá’í Friend,
Your email letter of 7 December 2007 requesting guidance has been received by
the
Universal House of Justice and referred to our Department for response.
Your letter seeks guidance concerning films and television programmes that a
Bahá’í
should watch. However, it is neither possible nor desirable for the Universal
House of Justice
to set forth a set of rules covering every situation a believer encounters
daily. Rather is it the
task of the individual believer to determine, according to his own prayerful
understanding of
the Writings, precisely what his course of conduct should be in relation to
situations in which
he finds himself. If he is to fulfil his true mission in life as a follower of
the Blessed Perfection,
he will pattern his conduct according to the Teachings. The believer cannot
attain this objective
merely by living according to a set of rigid regulations. When his life is
oriented towards service
to Bahá’u’lláh, and when every conscious act is performed within this frame of
reference, he
will not fail to achieve his true purpose.
Therefore, every believer must continually study the Sacred Writings and the
instructions
of the beloved Guardian, striving always to achieve a new and better
understanding of their
import to him and to his society. He should pray fervently for Divine guidance,
wisdom and
strength to do what is pleasing to God and to serve Him at all times and to the
best of his ability.
With loving Bahá’í greetings,
Department of the Secretariat
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Podcast intro to Baha'i Faith
On a personal note, I am moving to the LA area today! I will sorta be
bi-coastal since I maintain my residence in CT but mostly I will be
a my new apartment in Culver City (between Hollywood and Santa
Monica) where I will be able to walk to my (semi-new) primary place of
employment with a manufacturer of quartz crystal oscillators for military
and aerospace communications and control.
Just in case anyone is interested,
http://www.awaretek.com/podcasts/index.html is a podcast about a future of
religion compatible with science and reason, and then an intro to the Baha'i
Faith. It is dry, boring, but its the best I could do after 10 years. Since
I just put it up on my rss feed, a lot of non-Baha'is will listen to it.
Allah-U-Abha.
Ron
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