Commentary on the House of Justice
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear friends: I have posted an article about the divine guidance flowing to the House of Justice during the enactment of legislation, and addressing the passage from Shoghi Effendi's "Dispensation" letter in which he speaks of the role of the Guardian in the process of legislation, particularly the passage about reconsideration of enactments he believes to conflict with the meaning or depart from the spirit of the Text. http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2010/11/house-justice-legislation-infallibility.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537662-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Feminists would rather have us see individuals who are male and individuals >> who are female rather than men and women. > > And there is a difference between being male and men or being female or women I suspect Stephen is talking about the distinction between sex (biological, anatomic, chromosomal) and gender (cultural, socially-conditioned, arguably chosen) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537654-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>And there is a difference between being male and men or being female or women? > > To my mind, yes there is a difference. I would use "male and "female" > to refer to horses or dogs or plants. I would use "man" or "woman" to > refer to human beings. Yes, and males and females can be children or adults whereas men and women cannot be. What I'm trying to say is I don't get the point of Stephen's distinction. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537649-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Seven Dimensions of Religion
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Chris Buck likes to play with these kinds of categories. I'll let him answer. On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Stephen Gray wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > Exeriential, Mythic, Doctrinal, Ethical, Ritual, Social, and Material. I got > these out of my testbook on the study of world religions. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups > > Judaism > Experiential-knowing God through Kabbalah, Jeremiah's call to be a prophet > Mythic-the Haggadah (recited on Passover) > Doctrinal-the Covenant, the Shema, Maimomedes's thirteen principles of faith > Ethical-the Ten Commandments and other rules of Torah > Ritual-daily prayer, the Sabbath meal and observances, Passover's Seder, > reciting the kaddish > Social-cohesion of the Chosen People, Hasidism's zaddik > Material-yarmulke, mezuzah, shofar, matzo, huppah > > Christianity > Experiential-experiencing the "fruits of the Spirit", relationship with > Jesus, emotional effects of the Eucharist > Mythic-Gospel accounts of Jesus' birth and other aspects of Jesus's life > (such as the Last Supper which underlies the ritual of the Eucharist) > Doctrinal-the Incarnation, the Trinity, apocalypticism, the Apostles' Creed, > the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the Chalcedonian Creed, original > sin, predestination > Ethical-the Beatitudes, Jesus' commadment to love one's enemies > Ritual-elebration of the Eucharist, baptism, and other sacraments > Social-the Church, communities of monks and nuns, hierarchies within the > Church (bishops, presbyters, deacons), the Pope, the Patriarch of > Constantinople > Material-cathedrals and churches, icons > > Islam > Experiential-fasting during Ramadan, al-fana > Mythic-sacred narratives of Abraham's founding of Mecca and of Muhammad's > Ascension to Heaven > Doctrinal-Shahada (emphasizing monotheism), Sharia'a > Ethcal-wealth sharing, regulations against pork and alcohol > Ritual-prayer five times daily, various observances while on the hajj > Social-the Umma, the Imam, the Shaykh, the Pir > Material-the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, the Ka'ba, mosques > > How would you create a profile of the Baha'i Faith using these stats? > > Baha'i Faith > Experiential- > Mythic- > Doctrinal- > Ethical- > Ritual- > Social- > Material- > > More examples: > > Buddhism > Experiential-enlightenment, Nirvana > Mythic-biography of the Buddha, stories and descriptions of bodhisattvas > Doctrinal-Middle Way, Three Marks of Existence, Four Noble Truths > Ethical-Five Precepts, Eight Precepts, Ten Precepts, Bodhisattva Vows, > ideals of wisdom and compassion > Ritual-Mahayana acts of relgious devotion and prayer to the bodhisattvas, > Vajrayana chanting, mandalas, and mudras > Social-Sangha, figure of arhat, Dalai Lama, lamas > Material-bodhi tree, mandalas > > Zen Buddhism > Experiential-satori > Mythic-the legend of Buddha's choosing Mahakasyapa as his successor > Doctrinal-the distinction between sudden awakening and gradual awakening > Ethical-a concern for justice > Ritual-doukusan, zazen > Social-the dividion into the Five Houses of Zen, the master-disciple > relationships > Material-the meditation hall, the encouragement stick, sumie, Japanese > garderns > > Taoism > Experiential-living in accord with the Tao, as perfected by the sage > Mythic-legendary account of the birth and life of Lao Tzu > Doctrinal-philosophy of Tao, wu-wei, cosmology based on yin and yang > Ethical-views of nonagression and passive rule, Five Precepts, Ten Precepts > Ritual-in popular/religious Taoism, breathing exercises and other techniques > for the pursuit of immotality > Ritual-in philosophical Taoism, it notably de-emphasizes ritual because > ritual is not true to the Way of Nature > Social-figure of the sage > Material-yin and yang symbol > > Shinto > Experiential-unity with the kami > Mythic-an accounts of the origins of Japan > Doctrinal-beliefs regarding the nature of kami > Ethical-the primary virtues of bushido > Ritual-worship at the kamidana and shrines, the Great Purification > Social-Shinto priests and priestesses > Material-kamidana, torii, the Grand Imperial Shrine at Ise, Nachi Waterfall, > Mount Miwa > > Confucianism > Experiential-knowing and being in harmony with Heaven and Tao > Mythic-acient accounts of the good rulers and ancestors of China's legendary > past > Doctrinal-Confucius's many teachings as set forth in the Analects > Ethical-jen, te > Ritual-behavior resulting from the doctrine of li > Material-paintings and sculptures of Confucius, Confucian temples > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-537540-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Different schools of psychology have different opinions: Freudian, Jungian, Behavoirist, Culturalist, Enviromentalist, Existential-Humanist. Social constructionists say thoses psychological differences are from the way we treat babies different based on gender. They experimented by randomly putting babies in blue and pink regardless of gender. The unkown subjects who guessed the babies genders said the blues were strong and atheltic even though you can't tell how a baby qualifies for that. They also refered to the pinks as fargile and weak even though all babies are. People go through gender conditioning which tends to do more with nurture than nature. From: Matt Haase To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 3:37:09 PM Subject: Re: Religion and Women The Baha'i Studies Listserv There are obvious physiological differences between male and female, but I would be cautious to set up definite, unchanging laws that dictate the sexes behaviors. Statements like "this is what a man does", "this is what a woman does", make me cringe, because we are all individuals at heart. We have certain DNA encoding that steer some of our goals, yes, but we also have a soul or spirit and a personality that is our own. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537603-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537615-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv There are obvious physiological differences between male and female, but I would be cautious to set up definite, unchanging laws that dictate the sexes behaviors. Statements like "this is what a man does", "this is what a woman does", make me cringe, because we are all individuals at heart. We have certain DNA encoding that steer some of our goals, yes, but we also have a soul or spirit and a personality that is our own. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537603-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv >And there is a difference between being male and men or being female or women? To my mind, yes there is a difference. I would use "male and "female" to refer to horses or dogs or plants. I would use "man" or "woman" to refer to human beings. Tim All good art is about something deeper than it admits. --Roger Ebert __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537598-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Feminists would rather have us see individuals who are male and individuals > who are female rather than men and women. And there is a difference between being male and men or being female or women? Each individual in the world is > equal. They are the same in potentials and free will, but the use of their > free will they can turn the into individualities who are unique and > therefore different. Categories like male, female, or any other categories > only exist in so far as their are male, female, etc. individuals that keep > those categories in existence. Groups, clubs, societies, alliances, > associations, leagues, families, state, countries, unions, companies, > corporations, etc. only exists via the existence of their constituent > individual members. If you split any mumber of people into several abritrary > group via coin tosses or other random stats, you would wind up with each > individual being the same in that they are all individuals, yet different > via the free will to be unique. Males and females are no different from > other categories. All, I can say Stephen is that Abdu'l-Baha talked a lot about the equality of women and men but he didn't emphasize the individualism. I think He thought more in terms of community. But Sen will probably disagree with me here. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537582-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The foucs on gender is what's sexist, both traditional and oppositional. Feminists would rather have us see individuals who are male and individuals who are female rather than men and women. Each individual in the world is equal. They are the same in potentials and free will, but the use of their free will they can turn the into individualities who are unique and therefore different. Categories like male, female, or any other categories only exist in so far as their are male, female, etc. individuals that keep those categories in existence. Groups, clubs, societies, alliances, associations, leagues, families, state, countries, unions, companies, corporations, etc. only exists via the existence of their constituent individual members. If you split any mumber of people into several abritrary group via coin tosses or other random stats, you would wind up with each individual being the same in that they are all individuals, yet different via the free will to be unique. Males and females are no different from other categories. On oppostional sexism: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2009/09/09/oppositional-sexism-and-traditional-sexism/ http://deardiaspora.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/a-few-thoughts-on-identity-oppositional-sexism/ http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/06/trials-and-travails-of-transness.html http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/06/trials-and-travails-of-transness-dude.html http://www.juliaserano.com/whippinggirl.html http://feed.belowthebelt.org/2009/09/gender-whipped-engagements-with-julia.html Serano contributes significantly to feminist theory and practice by providing us with a concise way of categorizing the different forms of sexism in Western societies. She argues that sexism is a two-fold phenomenon, consisting of “oppositional” and “traditional” elements. Oppositional sexism is “the belief that female and male are rigid, mutually exclusive categories” (13). A man should not have any of the “attributes, aptitudes, abilities, and desires” commonly associated with women, and vice-versa (13). Anyone who does not follow this schema, any manly women or womanly men, should be dismissed and punished for disobeying the divine, natural and social order that deemed the two genders to be mutually exclusive opposites. On the other hand, traditional sexism is “the belief that maleness and masculinity are superior to femaleness and femininity” (14). This type of sexism specifically demeans all feminine persons (many of whom are females) by characterizing their activities as frivolous and justifying their exclusion from certain jobs and positions of social authority. Thus, according to Serano, sexism is a commonly held belief system that conceptualizes males and females as strict oppositional categories and sets up a hierarchy in which men and masculinity are considered superior to women and femininity. >Feminists and queer theorists have failed to recognize this dual aspect of >sexism, which is one of the reasons why they often seem to talk past each >other. >Queer theorists have focused on oppositional sexism: they have analyzed and >railed against binary gender norms, which push people to fit their identities >and behaviors into carefully prescribed masculine and feminine boxes. On the >other hand, feminists have concentrated their efforts on studying and fighting >against the more traditional forms of sexism: the oppression of women and >their >social subordination to men. > __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537563-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Seven Dimensions of Religion
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Exeriential, Mythic, Doctrinal, Ethical, Ritual, Social, and Material. I got these out of my testbook on the study of world religions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups Judaism Experiential-knowing God through Kabbalah, Jeremiah's call to be a prophet Mythic-the Haggadah (recited on Passover) Doctrinal-the Covenant, the Shema, Maimomedes's thirteen principles of faith Ethical-the Ten Commandments and other rules of Torah Ritual-daily prayer, the Sabbath meal and observances, Passover's Seder, reciting the kaddish Social-cohesion of the Chosen People, Hasidism's zaddik Material-yarmulke, mezuzah, shofar, matzo, huppah Christianity Experiential-experiencing the "fruits of the Spirit", relationship with Jesus, emotional effects of the Eucharist Mythic-Gospel accounts of Jesus' birth and other aspects of Jesus's life (such as the Last Supper which underlies the ritual of the Eucharist) Doctrinal-the Incarnation, the Trinity, apocalypticism, the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the Chalcedonian Creed, original sin, predestination Ethical-the Beatitudes, Jesus' commadment to love one's enemies Ritual-elebration of the Eucharist, baptism, and other sacraments Social-the Church, communities of monks and nuns, hierarchies within the Church (bishops, presbyters, deacons), the Pope, the Patriarch of Constantinople Material-cathedrals and churches, icons Islam Experiential-fasting during Ramadan, al-fana Mythic-sacred narratives of Abraham's founding of Mecca and of Muhammad's Ascension to Heaven Doctrinal-Shahada (emphasizing monotheism), Sharia'a Ethcal-wealth sharing, regulations against pork and alcohol Ritual-prayer five times daily, various observances while on the hajj Social-the Umma, the Imam, the Shaykh, the Pir Material-the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, the Ka'ba, mosques How would you create a profile of the Baha'i Faith using these stats? Baha'i Faith Experiential- Mythic- Doctrinal- Ethical- Ritual- Social- Material- More examples: Buddhism Experiential-enlightenment, Nirvana Mythic-biography of the Buddha, stories and descriptions of bodhisattvas Doctrinal-Middle Way, Three Marks of Existence, Four Noble Truths Ethical-Five Precepts, Eight Precepts, Ten Precepts, Bodhisattva Vows, ideals of wisdom and compassion Ritual-Mahayana acts of relgious devotion and prayer to the bodhisattvas, Vajrayana chanting, mandalas, and mudras Social-Sangha, figure of arhat, Dalai Lama, lamas Material-bodhi tree, mandalas Zen Buddhism Experiential-satori Mythic-the legend of Buddha's choosing Mahakasyapa as his successor Doctrinal-the distinction between sudden awakening and gradual awakening Ethical-a concern for justice Ritual-doukusan, zazen Social-the dividion into the Five Houses of Zen, the master-disciple relationships Material-the meditation hall, the encouragement stick, sumie, Japanese garderns Taoism Experiential-living in accord with the Tao, as perfected by the sage Mythic-legendary account of the birth and life of Lao Tzu Doctrinal-philosophy of Tao, wu-wei, cosmology based on yin and yang Ethical-views of nonagression and passive rule, Five Precepts, Ten Precepts Ritual-in popular/religious Taoism, breathing exercises and other techniques for the pursuit of immotality Ritual-in philosophical Taoism, it notably de-emphasizes ritual because ritual is not true to the Way of Nature Social-figure of the sage Material-yin and yang symbol Shinto Experiential-unity with the kami Mythic-an accounts of the origins of Japan Doctrinal-beliefs regarding the nature of kami Ethical-the primary virtues of bushido Ritual-worship at the kamidana and shrines, the Great Purification Social-Shinto priests and priestesses Material-kamidana, torii, the Grand Imperial Shrine at Ise, Nachi Waterfall, Mount Miwa Confucianism Experiential-knowing and being in harmony with Heaven and Tao Mythic-acient accounts of the good rulers and ancestors of China's legendary past Doctrinal-Confucius's many teachings as set forth in the Analects Ethical-jen, te Ritual-behavior resulting from the doctrine of li Material-paintings and sculptures of Confucius, Confucian temples __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537540-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: [Content Advisory] Re: [Content Advisory] Re: [Content Advisory] Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Not to get that much off topic, but several feminists have been critics of marriage as intrisically unequal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_marriage Gender inequality [edit] Feminists Some feminists seek the end of formal marriage - "The institution of marriage is the chief vehicle for the perpetuation of the oppression of women; it is through the role of wife that the subjugation of women is maintained."[4] Individuals such as Sheila Cronan claim that "Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage."[5], and point to historical, legal and social inequalities of wedding, family life and divorce. Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice.- Andrea Dworkin Early feminist literature specifically opposed to marriage include: [6] * Kate Millett, author of Sexual Politics (1969) * Germaine Greer, author of The Female Eunuch (1970) * Marilyn French, author of The Women's Room (1977) * Jessie Bernard, author of The Future of Marriage (1972) * Shulamith Firestone, author of The Dialectic of Sex: The Case for Feminist Revolution (1970) From: Naison Jones To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 9:22:55 PM Subject: Re: [Content Advisory] Re: [Content Advisory] Re: [Content Advisory] Re: Religion and Women The Baha'i Studies Listserv I guarentee you if you stick to the principle of equality in a Bahai marraige you will see this comes from inequality. Otherwise your marraige wil suck. It will be like "No dear its now your turn to drop off the kids", "No i did this last time its your turn". "No I was teaching the faith then that is worth dropping off the kids five times" See this is stupid. the correct way is. "I will drop off the kids if you have to work late to earn more money" That is true equality. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:skg_z...@yahoo.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537386-1719008.2a3842ae5b2f7d34dd5fdfc724616...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537532-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
The foucs on gender is what's sexist, both traditional and oppositional.
Feminists would rather have us see individuals who are male and individuals who
are female rather than men and women. Each individual in the world is equal.
They are the same in potentials and free will, but the use of their free will
they can turn the into individualities who are unique and therefore different.
Categories like male, female, or any other categories only exist in so far as
their are male, female, etc. individuals that keep those categories in
existence. Groups, clubs, societies, alliances, associations, leagues,
families,
state, countries, unions, companies, corporations, etc. only exists via the
existence of their constituent individual members. If you split any mumber of
people into several abritrary group via coin tosses or other random stats, you
would wind up with each individual being the same in that they are all
individuals, yet different via the free will to be unique. Males and females
are
no different from other categories.
From: Sen & Sonja
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:31:10 AM
Subject: Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 4 Nov 2010 at 8:57, Naison Jones wrote:
> since perfection in two unequal parts comes through relative strengths
> in their most suitable roles then true equality comes through apparent
> inequality or distribution of roles.
When you say such things, it appears to readers that you are just not
willing to accept that the two parts of humanity (men and women) are
equal. However from your later posts, ("For pure equality you need
the man and woman doing the same thing. ") it seems that you use the
word "equal" and "unequal" to refer to two people doing the same
things, rather than being of equal capacity and value. You can use
words any way you like, but this way causes confusion in a Bahai
context, because the equality of men and women is part of the core
teachings of the Bahai Faith, emphasised particularly in Abdu'l-
Baha's tablets and talks.
In one authenticated talk he says,
"Tenth, the education and training of women, their progress, and
consideration and respect for them, since they are partners and co-
equals of men in life and, with respect to their humanity, are on an
equal footing."
http://wp.me/pcgF5-1wd
In the tablet to the Hague he writes,
"..among the teachings of Bahá´u´lláh is the equality of women and
men. The world of humanity has two wings-- one is women and the other
men. Not until both wings are equally developed can the bird fly.
Should one wing remain weak, flight is impossible. Not until the
world of women becomes equal to the world of men in the acquisition
of virtues and perfections, can success and prosperity be attained as
they ought to be."
http://bahai-library.com/provisionals/lawh.hague.html
There's nothing about any inherent inequality between men and women
here, or anywhere else in the Bahai writings that I know of.
Sen
--
--
Sen McGlinn http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com
***
In reality, the radiant, pure hearts are the Mashrak-el-Azcar
and from them the voice of supplication and
invocation continually reacheth the Supreme Concourse.
Tablets of `Abdu'l-Baha Abbas, p. 678
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Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I think putting it that way makes sense. In mathematical contexts I'm used to "equal" meaning "the same in every way". So in other contexts, especially if you are dealing with controversial subjects (e.g. religion, politics) it is usually helpful to acknowledge that what is meant is "equal in certain respects but not necessarily in others" On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Naison Jones wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > They are equal in one sense. ie their value is the same they are both human > beings. In another sense they are not equal. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537453-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv They are equal in one sense. ie their value is the same they are both human beings. In another sense they are not equal. I have probably ranted too much though. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537430-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Women
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 4 Nov 2010 at 8:57, Naison Jones wrote:
> since perfection in two unequal parts comes through relative strengths
> in their most suitable roles then true equality comes through apparent
> inequality or distribution of roles.
When you say such things, it appears to readers that you are just not
willing to accept that the two parts of humanity (men and women) are
equal. However from your later posts, ("For pure equality you need
the man and woman doing the same thing. ") it seems that you use the
word "equal" and "unequal" to refer to two people doing the same
things, rather than being of equal capacity and value. You can use
words any way you like, but this way causes confusion in a Bahai
context, because the equality of men and women is part of the core
teachings of the Bahai Faith, emphasised particularly in Abdu'l-
Baha's tablets and talks.
In one authenticated talk he says,
"Tenth, the education and training of women, their progress, and
consideration and respect for them, since they are partners and co-
equals of men in life and, with respect to their humanity, are on an
equal footing."
http://wp.me/pcgF5-1wd
In the tablet to the Hague he writes,
"..among the teachings of Bahá´u´lláh is the equality of women and
men. The world of humanity has two wings-- one is women and the other
men. Not until both wings are equally developed can the bird fly.
Should one wing remain weak, flight is impossible. Not until the
world of women becomes equal to the world of men in the acquisition
of virtues and perfections, can success and prosperity be attained as
they ought to be."
http://bahai-library.com/provisionals/lawh.hague.html
There's nothing about any inherent inequality between men and women
here, or anywhere else in the Bahai writings that I know of.
Sen
--
--
Sen McGlinnhttp://senmcglinn.wordpress.com
***
In reality, the radiant, pure hearts are the Mashrak-el-Azcar
and from them the voice of supplication and
invocation continually reacheth the Supreme Concourse.
Tablets of `Abdu'l-Baha Abbas, p. 678
--
--
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com
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Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu
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