Re: Arguments and Stuff
The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I have been meditating on our heated discussions for the last couple of > hours, and have considered my possible role in the conflict. At the moment, > I am unsure if I should leave this list as I don't want to be a reason for > contention among Baha'is. When Susan said that she wanted to shut this list > down, I got very sad, and felt guilty like I was part of the problem. Dear Matt, Let me assure you that I do not consider you part of the problem. I am *much* more concerned with the behaviour of Baha'is on this list than I am with Muslims. There are a few other people who have clearly come here to stir up trouble such as atheist and one other person who I believe to be a spy for those who wish to do us harm. There have been Muslims on other list who *have* been problems but I don't see this as the case here. Iskandar and I don't see eye to eye on this issue but he doesn't run this list. For the last seven > years, I have tried my best to show Baha'is that not all Muslims have to > hate the Baha'i Faith, or disparage them. And I think you have done a commendable hob of that. I understand that some Baha'is > have had traumatic experiences at the hands of Muslims, and this can cause > bitterness and psychological defense mechanisms for some. I often try to > remember that, and be forgiving because I don't think it is "them" that is > reacting that way, but the pain screaming out. Your magnanimous understanding is much appreciated. There is > a proverb which states that a person finds whatever they are looking for in > religion And that is as true as of individuals as it is with religions. Thank you for your poignant reminder of the spirit in which we *should* be interacting with one another. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549473-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arguments and Stuff
The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > I for one appreciate your presence here. You demonstrate the best ecumenical > spirit, which does not involve soft-pedalling one's own beliefs, but > engaging in dialogue based on person to person respect. So let me get this straight, Satan. You state that the Muslim presence is appreciated because they are insisting that Islam is a positive force in society? Maybe over the dead bodies of Jews, Baha'is, and rejectors of blood-thirsty Allah. Futhermore, you cannot be a Bahai and accept the premise that Islam and Quran are today positive things in society. Oh I forgot, you were already removed from Bahai. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549449-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arguments and Stuff
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sen is a liar, do not listen to him. He is an anti-Bahai recruited by Muslims to cause dissention among Bahais and to spread superstitious dogma about the Allah of Mohamed. Sen, you don't know Bahai writings. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549447-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arguments and Stuff
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Matt, Gilberto I for one appreciate your presence here. You demonstrate the best ecumenical spirit, which does not involve soft-pedalling one's own beliefs, but engaging in dialogue based on person to person respect. Two of the Bahai members on this list have not shown that spirit, and this is to be regretted. I am very glad to know that you understand that this does not reflect anything of the Bahai teachings, but rather bitterness and defensiveness for which there are historical reasons, amplified by the enormous volume of anti-Islam material that is now available and which, by simple repetition, comes to appear factual. Sen On 31 Dec 2010 at 4:04, Matt Haase wrote: > I have been meditating on our heated discussions for the last couple > of hours, and have considered my possible role in the conflict. At the > moment, I am unsure if I should leave this list as I don't want to be > a reason for contention among Baha'is. When Susan said that she wanted > to shut this list down, I got very sad, and felt guilty like I was > part of the problem. As a Muslim, I don't want to be a cause of grief > for Baha'is. For the last seven years, I have tried my best to show > Baha'is that not all Muslims have to hate the Baha'i Faith, or > disparage them. I have befriended many, and most of my best friends > are Baha'is, not Muslim. I understand that some Baha'is have had > traumatic experiences at the hands of Muslims, and this can cause > bitterness and psychological defense mechanisms for some. I often try > to remember that, and be forgiving because I don't think it is "them" > that is reacting that way, but the pain screaming out. But sometimes I > don't, and I get offended like a human being does, and then I get > defensive. I usually try to be as objective and "sin-covering" as > possible. I try not to look to the worst possible interpretation of > something, but the best possible interpretation of something. There > was a time when I looked through the Baha'i Writings with detective > eyes, trying to find a quote here or there that spoke ill of Islam or > Muslims. I found them. I found dozens. But something strange happened > years later. After reading those same texts, I couldn't find those > passages anymore. Surely, these are the same books, but why couldn't I > find them? Because I wasn't looking for them. There is a proverb which > states that a person finds whatever they are looking for in religion. > If they are looking for hate, they find hate. If they look for love, > they find love. If they are looking for "superstitions" that proves > how stupid religion is, they find superstitions, etc. My path is not > the path of justice, but mercy. > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sen.so...@casema.nl > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-549433-722276.e949cd65ee3832db6e13381842c92...@list.jccc. > edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - > mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - > news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - > http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - > http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549446-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arguments and Stuff
The Baha'i Studies Listserv > There is a proverb which states that a person finds whatever they are looking > for in religion. If they are looking for hate, they find hate. If they look > for love, they find love. If they are looking for "superstitions" that proves > how stupid religion is, they find superstitions, etc. My path is not the path > of justice, but mercy. > This proverb is contrary to bahaii teachings. Bahaii teachings state that a religion is only beneficial for it's time, after it's time has expired that religion becomes bad for society.We have a lot in common with bahaiis : all religions are harmful to society. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549440-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
