Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-13 Thread marylou9 
Dear Brent,,
Allah'uBah

I prya youa re well.. Thanks for this note and the lovley paper about the Bible 
and the Iqan

i willstart to reread it tonight

O Brent, adear BAhai friend of mine

MArtha MAny Gray Horses formerly of Alb,, is now in Tucson

She has been work at a college of th etOhana Odum tribe

HSe has been fired without due cause

and also wihtout due process.

She moved here from MOntana to begin work here in JUne2006.

So it was a great expenses
She does not want the ob back but
wnats some compensatin

CAn you suggets any Bahais who do civil Liberties work

Also will she need ot ahve an Az. lawyer

any suggetsions

Lets ask Louis grgeory for help,,

Let me know any leads

Iam tutoring at  middle school..I love it

one to one work

and i tutor math

many prayer to you

PS who is the Cinvnetion delegate

Sharon EWing is the delegate here

the first ever woman delegate from Tucson

loving pryaers

and fond memories

MAria LUisa

MArtha got the notice today 


-- Original Message --
From: Brent Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Date:  Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:40:57 -

why don't the resurrection narratives have the disciples going deaf and blind 
after Jesus died and then receiving sight and hearing?  Shouldn't there be 
some consistency?  Also, why aren't there any stories of the disciples being 
deaf and blind initially?

I suggest that these are the verses being referred to.

After the crucifixion, Mary Magdalene went to the garden and saw Jesus 
standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. (John 20:14) She thought Him to be 
the gardener. That is, she saw Him but did not recognize Him. Then in John 
20:16 and 20:18 Mary recognizes her Lord and realizes He is eternal in being. 
She returns and tells the disciples, and they see Him (John 20:20).

Also after the crucifixion, two believers were walking on the road to Emmaus; 
suddenly Jesus was walking with them, but they did not recognize Him. Then 
they ate bread and their eyes were opened and they recognized Him:

And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus 
himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were held that they 
should not know him And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he 
took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were 
opened, and they knew him... Luke 24:13-31

Also in Luke Chapter 24 verses 39-44, the disciples eat bread with Jesus 
and believe in Him.

Likewise during the days of Joseph there was a famine in the land of Canaan 
and the brothers of Joseph came to Him for food (Genesis 42:5).  And Joseph 
saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and 
spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, 'Whence came ye?' And they 
said, 'From the land of Canaan to buy food.' And Joseph knew his brethren, but 
they knew not him. Joseph then gave them bread, and revealed Himself to His 
brothers, saying There will I nourish thee... And, behold, your eyes see. 
(Genesis 45:11-12). 

I have some notes on this at: 
http://bahai-library.com/?file=poirier_iqan_unsealing_bible that you may find 
useful.  Use them as you wish.
Brent

 
 
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Baha'i

Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-13 Thread Brent Poirier Attorney at Law 

Yes Susan, I am in agreement that visions are not

accepted as physical matter. Was it not the
misinterpreted seeing of Him that was understood to
be a physical body resurrected, rather than the
spiritual vision of spiritual matter?

There are three kinds of seeing

-- seeing a person in the physical sense, with physical eyes
-- seeing a vision
-- seeing meaning faith, meaning recognition of the station of the 
Manifestation.


It is this third kind that is referred to when Christ says The people have 
eyes, but do not see.  Blessed are your eyes for they see.  This seeing 
and these eyes are not the physical eyes, and not seeing a vision.  It 
means perception.


(Respectfully, I personally do not see support in the Baha'i Writings for 
the appearances of Christ being visions of spiritual matter.)


And in the Gospels, sometimes this third kind of seeing or recognition is 
referred to as recognition, as in the verse just quoted.  However, sometimes 
it is symbolically represented, by depicting a believer who sees Jesus, but 
does not recognize Him. This is presented as a physical thing, that the 
believer physically sees Jesus, but does not physically recognize Him.  The 
Guardian says these should be understood allegorically; though the text of 
the Gospel gives no hint that it should be understood allegorically; 
presenting it as a physical event.  So, the Gospel says that Mary Magdalene 
saw Jesus in the garden, but didn't recognize Him; and the disciples on the 
road to Emmaus saw him but their eyes were holden and they did not 
recognize Him until He gave them bread.  Then their eyes were opened and 
they recognized Him.


In the paper I wrote, The Kitab-i-Iqan, the Key to Unsealing the Mysteries 
of the Holy Bible I go into this more fully, with more Bible quotations.

http://bahai-library.com/?file=poirier_iqan_unsealing_bible

For me, the key to understanding this is this letter on behalf of Shoghi 
Effendi:


We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the 
crucifixion of Christ, but that there was a time after His ascension when 
His disciples perceived spiritually His true greatness and realized He was 
eternal in being. This is what has been reported symbolically in the New 
Testament and been misunderstood. His eating with His disciples after 
resurrection is the same thing.  From a letter on behalf of the Guardian, 
High Endeavours pp. 69-70, Lights of Guidance, 2nd Edition, p. 368


The only way that the disciples spiritually recognizing Jesus can be the 
same thing as eating with Him, is if the seeing and the eating are 
understood symbolically; such as when the disciples ate with Jesus after His 
resurrection, and recognized Him after they ate bread, and Mary told them 
what she had seen.


And this is why the times when people saw Jesus after His crucifixion and 
resurrection, were all appearances to believers:  This is because these were 
not appearances in the physical sense of the word; nor were these visions. 
Rather, these are allegorical depictions of these believers regaining their 
faith and steadfastness, realizing the eternity of Christ, and seeing Him 
in that sense. In that sense, a non-believer could not see Jesus, by 
definition, because a person who sees Jesus means a person who believes in 
Him; and that is why the Bible contains no such reference. These are the 
appearances of Christ after His resurrection -- all to believers, which I 
copied from a study Bible:


To Mary Magdalene (Matthew 16:9, John 20:11-18);
To other women believers (Matthew 28:9-10);
To two disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35);
To Peter (Luke 24:34);
To ten disciples (John 20:19-25);
To eleven disciples (John 20:26);
To the Apostles at the Sea of Tiberias (John 21:1-25);
The great commission to the disciples at Galilee (Matthew 28:16-20);
To five hundred believers (1 Corinthians 15:6);
To all the apostles (Acts 1:4-11);
To James (1 Corinthians 15:7);
To Paul (Acts 9:3-6, 1 Corinthians 15:8);
To John (Revelation 1:10-18).

Again, these appearances were neither physical events nor visions.  This, 
according to the quote from Shoghi Effendi above, means that these people 
perceived spiritually His true greatness and realized He was eternal in 
being.


Brent







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what is a vision? was Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-13 Thread Gilberto Simpson 

So what happened when someone says they saw a vision? Is it a
God-induced hallucination only visible to one person? Is it an
appearance visible to many people? What about these resurrection
experiences? Physical?

-G


On 10/12/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

If we are talking about a vision, I'm not sure what physical versus
spiritual means. Visions are not physical to begin with. But there is
a long tradition both in the gnostic texts and in the orthodox canon
of Jesus appearing after the crucifixtion as a being of light. In
fact, He apparently was appearing to early Christians so frequently
that Luke felt he had to put a lid on it by saying that Jesus ascended
after thirty days (and therefore these appearances should stop.)

warmest, Susan




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Re: what is a vision? was Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-13 Thread smaneck 
 So what happened when someone says they saw a vision? Is it a
 God-induced hallucination only visible to one person? Is it an
 appearance visible to many people? What about these resurrection
 experiences? Physical?

Dear Gilberto, 

I'm suggesting we don't really know. When Muhammad saw Jabreel was 
anyone else up there on the mountain to witness it? 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-13 Thread smaneck 
Dear Brent, 

I don't think that what the Baha'i Writings say about the Resurrection 
necessitate visionary experiences of the Resurrected Christ, but I 
don't think they preclude them either. My conclusions in this regard 
are based primarily on the historical evidence. 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
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what is a vision? was Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-13 Thread Tim Nolan 






Hi Gilberto,So what happened when someone says they "saw a vision"? Is it aGod-induced hallucination only visible to one person? Is it anappearance visible to many people? I don't think it's necessary or useful for others to attempt to define what really happened when someone says they had a vision, unless the vision-seer tries to use that to affect other peoples lives. Aside from that, I think it's fruitless to try to define what another person's vision "really was". Even the person who had the vision may not be sure.On the other hand, if a person who had a vision uses that to tell other people what to do, then I would want evidence that the visionary's message was good and true.  What about these resurrectionexperiences? Physical?Shoghi Effendi said the
 stories about Christ's resurrection are symbolic; the resurrection was spiritual, not material.Tim Nolan 
	
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-12 Thread Brent Poirier 
why don't the resurrection narratives have the disciples going deaf and blind 
after Jesus died and then receiving sight and hearing?  Shouldn't there be some 
consistency?  Also, why aren't there any stories of the disciples being deaf 
and blind initially?

I suggest that these are the verses being referred to.

After the crucifixion, Mary Magdalene went to the garden and saw Jesus 
standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. (John 20:14) She thought Him to be 
the gardener. That is, she saw Him but did not recognize Him. Then in John 
20:16 and 20:18 Mary recognizes her Lord and realizes He is eternal in being. 
She returns and tells the disciples, and they see Him (John 20:20).

Also after the crucifixion, two believers were walking on the road to Emmaus; 
suddenly Jesus was walking with them, but they did not recognize Him. Then 
they ate bread and their eyes were opened and they recognized Him:

And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus 
himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were held that they 
should not know him And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he 
took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were 
opened, and they knew him... Luke 24:13-31

Also in Luke Chapter 24 verses 39-44, the disciples eat bread with Jesus 
and believe in Him.

Likewise during the days of Joseph there was a famine in the land of Canaan 
and the brothers of Joseph came to Him for food (Genesis 42:5).  And Joseph 
saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and 
spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, 'Whence came ye?' And they 
said, 'From the land of Canaan to buy food.' And Joseph knew his brethren, but 
they knew not him. Joseph then gave them bread, and revealed Himself to His 
brothers, saying There will I nourish thee... And, behold, your eyes see. 
(Genesis 45:11-12). 

I have some notes on this at: 
http://bahai-library.com/?file=poirier_iqan_unsealing_bible that you may find 
useful.  Use them as you wish.
Brent

 
 
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-12 Thread smaneck 
This risen Christ issue was
 very big to him, I suppose in contrast to images of
 Catholic crucufixes. 

Dear Karen, 

That's kind of a one-upsman thing Protestants sometimes use against 
the Catholics. They claim because they (Protestants) wear empty 
crucifixes it represents the resurrection as opposed to the Catholic 
crucifixes which depict Jesus being crucified. But the original reason 
they didn't put Jesus on the cross is because they objected to the use 
of figurative icons because they considered then idolatorous. 

 
 I could not help but think of Mary, who as I recall,
 was the catalyst to calming the diciples afterward, in
 that she recognized He indeed lived on in the faith
 imbued in them. It has always been my thought that the
 visions of Him were not physical events but spiritual
 insights.

If we are talking about a vision, I'm not sure what physical versus 
spiritual means. Visions are not physical to begin with. But there is 
a long tradition both in the gnostic texts and in the orthodox canon 
of Jesus appearing after the crucifixtion as a being of light. In 
fact, He apparently was appearing to early Christians so frequently 
that Luke felt he had to put a lid on it by saying that Jesus ascended 
after thirty days (and therefore these appearances should stop.) 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-12 Thread kgould 
Yes Susan, I am in agreement that visions are not
accepted as physical matter. Was it not the
misinterpreted seeing of Him that was understood to
be a physical body resurrected, rather than the
spiritual vision of spiritual matter? 
warmly,
karen

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 If we are talking about a vision, I'm not sure what
 physical versus 
 spiritual means. Visions are not physical to begin
 with. But there is 
 a long tradition both in the gnostic texts and in
 the orthodox canon 
 of Jesus appearing after the crucifixtion as a being
 of light. In 
 fact, He apparently was appearing to early
 Christians so frequently 
 that Luke felt he had to put a lid on it by saying
 that Jesus ascended 
 after thirty days (and therefore these appearances
 should stop.) 
 
 warmest, Susan 
 
 
  
  
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 by email reply and immediately and permanently
 delete this e-mail message and any attachments
 thereto. Thank you.
  
  
 
 
 
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-11 Thread David Friedman 






There's another issue. 'Abdu'l-Baha refers to alleged miracles in the Gospels, saying that receiving sight and hearing referred to a spiritual awakening. If the writers used this to refer to a spiritual awakening as 'Abdu'l-Baha says then why don't the resurrection narratives have the disciples going deaf and blind after Jesus died and then receiving sight and hearing? Shouldn't there be some consistency? Also, why aren't there any stories of the disciples being deaf and blind initially? 
DavidLooking for love? Check out  XtraMSN Personals 







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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-11 Thread Gilberto Simpson 

On 10/11/06, David Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


There's another issue.  'Abdu'l-Baha refers to alleged miracles in the
Gospels, saying that receiving sight and hearing referred to a spiritual
awakening.  If the writers used this to refer to a spiritual awakening as
'Abdu'l-Baha says then why don't the resurrection narratives have the
disciples going deaf and blind after Jesus died and then receiving sight and
hearing?  Shouldn't there be some consistency?  Also, why aren't there any
stories of the disciples being deaf and blind initially?



If you count Paul as a disciple the NT describes him being struck
blind and then healed although not in the exact way that you describe.
In terms of consistency, I don't think metaphors are necessarily about
consistency. If it were too consistent it would just be some kind of
code, not really a metaphor.




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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-11 Thread Scott Saylors 
Quite right.ScottGilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  On 10/11/06, David Friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: There's another issue. 'Abdu'l-Baha refers to alleged miracles in the Gospels, saying that receiving sight and hearing referred to a spiritual awakening. If the writers used this to refer to a spiritual awakening as 'Abdu'l-Baha says then why don't the resurrection narratives have the disciples going deaf and blind after Jesus died and then receiving sight and hearing? Shouldn't there be some consistency? Also, why aren't there any stories of the disciples being deaf and blind initially?If you count Paul as a disciple the NT describes him being struckblind and then healed although not in
 the exact way that you describe.In terms of consistency, I don't think metaphors are necessarily aboutconsistency. If it were too consistent it would just be some kind ofcode, not really a metaphor.The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-11 Thread Scott Saylors 
Metaphor and analogy are great illuminators. They bring understanding in great gulps of light. However, when one examines them too closely, in most cases the bulb burns out.Sorry for the metaphor.Regards,  ScottDavid Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  There's another issue. 'Abdu'l-Baha refers to alleged miracles in the Gospels, saying that receiving sight and hearing referred to a spiritual awakening. If the writers used this to refer to a spiritual awakening as 'Abdu'l-Baha says then why don't the resurrection narratives have the disciples going deaf and blind after Jesus died and then receiving sight and hearing? Shouldn't there be some consistency? Also, why
 aren't there any stories of the disciples being deaf and blind initially?   DavidLooking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC
 by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.   __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-11 Thread smaneck 
Dear David, 

Although Abdu'l-Baha does not say so explicitly, my reading of the 
early Christian sources, combined with Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation 
lead me to think that there were 'ressurrection' appearances of Jesus 
after the crucifixtion. They just weren't physical. 

warmest, Susan 


 
 
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-11 Thread kgould 
Dear Susan and David,
I recently was presented with this topic while on a
boyscout campout a fellow parent inquired what church
I went to. His interest in the Bahai Faith soon waned
when it became clear that I was not interested in
leaving my church to join his where we worship a
risen Christ.
I live in a small town with a church on every corner
and I expressed not only our belief in the unity of
religions but stated that our Writings state its
purpose is to bring together, and that if it did not
serve that purpose it was better to be without it. I
expressed my bewilderment at so many churches all
claiming to be Christian. This risen Christ issue was
very big to him, I suppose in contrast to images of
Catholic crucufixes. 

I could not help but think of Mary, who as I recall,
was the catalyst to calming the diciples afterward, in
that she recognized He indeed lived on in the faith
imbued in them. It has always been my thought that the
visions of Him were not physical events but spiritual
insights.

I shared with this parent that miracles in themselves
were not proof of divinity, which he readily agreed
to. The real proof of the Reality of Christ was that
his followers were able to receive his message of
love one another. 

As one who has had the born again experience and
grew from there to recognize the Faith, I was able to
be compassionate to his myopic view and yet firm and
unwavering in a real sense that I was not offending
the Holy Spirit as it manifested, but rather honoring
that Spirit in the recognition of Baha'u'llah. Our
Writings, as I remember/comprehend, say that to
distinguish one above another is error.
No one has the corner on the God market.

The beauty of this conversation, which I never would
have initiated on my own, was that a fellow boyscout
asked me about the main beliefs of the Baha'i
Faith...which I led into with the personal
responsiblity to investigate the truth.

warmly,
karen

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Dear David, 
 
 Although Abdu'l-Baha does not say so explicitly, my
 reading of the 
 early Christian sources, combined with Abdu'l-Baha's
 interpretation 
 lead me to think that there were 'ressurrection'
 appearances of Jesus 
 after the crucifixtion. They just weren't physical. 
 
 warmest, Susan 



 
 
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-10 Thread Scott Saylors 
Well, Abdu'l Baha says there was no physical resurrection. In my mind the Apostles of Christ may well have seen Christ amongst them as a spiritual form beyond their comprehension.What ever else happened during that time, and however the Spirit of Christ amongst them is represented, the REAL resurrection was the resurrection of the Cause of God amongst the followers of Christ. Without that specific event, Jesus would have had no more impact on civilization than Mani had.Regards,  ScottDavid Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  One issue of major importance for Baha'is with relation to Christians is the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is connected to the ascension and
 return of Christ. If there was a bodily resurrection then there was a bodily ascension and the return of Christ would be the very same person returning. One thing I don't know how to explain well is 'Abdu'l-Baha's explanation. The explanation He gives certainly doesn't appear to agree with the resurrection narratives. 'Abdu'l-Baha says that the resurrection was the disciples regaining their faith. However, the narratives have the regaining of faith something that happens AFTER the resurrection. Furthermore, they have Jesus as helping them get their faith back, whereas 'Abdu'l-Baha says they got it back by themselves. When 'Abdu'l-Baha gives biblical proof it is not from the narratives. Hence I don't see how to prove that the resurrection had anything to do with the disciples. Any thoughts?Regards,DavidRead the latest Hollywood
 gossip at XtraMSN Entertainment   The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.   __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News -
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Re: Resurrection of Christ

2006-10-10 Thread Richard H. Gravelly 



1. Abdu'l-Baha refers, as well, to Mary 
Magdelena as the reason for the return of the faith of the 
disciples.

"O maid-servant of God! Verily, Mary, the 
Magdalene, was a villager, but she kept firm in the Cause of Christ and 
confirmed the apostles at the time she declared to them (thus): "Verily, Christ 
is alive and eternal and death did not overtake Him; and verily, the foundation 
of His religion is not shaken by His crucifixion at the hand of the oppressors!" 
By this her face is eternally shining from the horizon of 
guidance."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 
268)

2. Perhaps if one were to approach the issue 
of "resurrection of the body" from the perspective of these verses; the task 
might not be so difficult. It would seem that the Christian will the need 
to face the fact that as "eating" cannot be taken literally' then the use of the 
word "bread" cannot be so taken. He might then be willing to conclude that 
bodily ascension is probably not what is meant by the word 
"ascended".


:6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my 
blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live 
by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

6:58 This is that bread which came down from 
heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this 
bread shall live for ever.
(King James Bible, John)

Richard.












  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Friedman 
  To: Baha'i Studies 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:25 
  AM
  Subject: Resurrection of Christ
  
  
  
  
  One issue of major importance for Baha'is with relation to 
  Christians is the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is connected 
  to the ascension and return of Christ. If there was a bodily 
  resurrection then there was a bodily ascension and the return of Christ would 
  be the very same person returning. One thing I don't know how to explain 
  well is 'Abdu'l-Baha's explanation. The explanation He gives certainly 
  doesn't appear to agree with the resurrection narratives. 'Abdu'l-Baha 
  says that the resurrection was the disciples regaining their faith. 
  However, the narratives have the regaining of faith something that happens 
  AFTER the resurrection. Furthermore, they have Jesus as helping them get 
  their faith back, whereas 'Abdu'l-Baha says they got it back by 
  themselves. When 'Abdu'l-Baha gives biblical proof it is not from the 
  narratives. Hence I don't see how to prove that the resurrection had 
  anything to do with the disciples. Any thoughts?
  
  Regards,David
  
  Read the latest Hollywood gossip at XtraMSN 
  Entertainment 
  
  
  The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto 
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  disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not 
  the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, 
  distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have 
  received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply 
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  thereto. Thank you. 
  
  
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