Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
What I understood (I read it in the Kitab-i-Hearsay!) is that we, bahai people, have been deeply invited to make our own searchs and discovers about God... Developping this knowledge takes a lot of time and energy, so we all first believe what we learn from others, but we shouldn't! Probably the same problem about all kind of laws, norms, believings... some are just well-known, without any clear original references! On this subject I am once again afraid of the same danger: some very tolerant original writings turning into dogmatic interpretations, applied and accepted by all... Keep vigilant and be wary of the counterfeits! (-; Lolo The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
Loïc ROYER wrote: What I understood (I read it in the Kitab-i-Hearsay!) is that we, bahai people, have been deeply invited to make our own searchs and discovers about God... Developping this knowledge takes a lot of time and energy, so we all first believe what we learn from others, but we shouldn't! Probably the same problem about all kind of laws, norms, believings... some are just well-known, without any clear original references! On this subject I am once again afraid of the same danger: some very tolerant original writings turning into dogmatic interpretations, applied and accepted by all... Keep vigilant and be wary of the counterfeits! (-; Lolo He spoke out; he expounded the secret verities of the Faith, and set forth conclusive proofs that the Advent had indeed come to pass. He recited verses from the Qur'án, and traditions handed down from the Prophet Muhammad and the Holy Imams. (Abdu'l-Baha, Memorials of the Faithful, p. 123) And among His signs are His splendours, rising above the horizon of oneness, His lights streaming out from the dayspring of might, and the announcement of the Most Great Glad-Tidings by His Herald, the One, the Incomparable. Verily in this is a brilliant proof for the company of those who know. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 15) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Baha'i Writings say...
I'm interested to hear if others have often have my experience. Often someone will say the Baha'i Writings say something they do not. I then suggest that the Baha'i Writings in fact say no such thing. They insist the Baha'i Writings does. I'm like okay, but where? They don't know where but insist and eventually I have to give up. I must admit I have been guilty of this myself. A few times here I have referred to what the Writings supposedly say without providing a quote, figuring it is common knowledge. Someone here has asked me where the Writings say such a thing. I've then searched and found there's nothing on it in the Writings. David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
Read David Piff's Bahai Lore and then you can show and tell other Bahais that they are repeating unfounded rumors. Almost anything another Bahai could say but can't find is in there. Also remind Bahais that the Guardian said the Faith was scientific in its method, so they should either produce the evidence (citation from the writings) or stop repeating statements they cannot justify, which is gossip and spreading misinformation. Problem solved. Marleen The Revelation proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion) David Friedman wrote: I'm interested to hear if others have often have my experience. Often someone will say the Baha'i Writings say something they do not. I then suggest that the Baha'i Writings in fact say no such thing. They insist the Baha'i Writings does. I'm like okay, but where? They don't know where but insist and eventually I have to give up. I must admit I have been guilty of this myself. A few times here I have referred to what the Writings supposedly say without providing a quote, figuring it is common knowledge. Someone here has asked me where the Writings say such a thing. I've then searched and found there's nothing on it in the Writings. David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
This reminds me of a joke we say around these parts, when unable to cite a source for a quote - it's attributed to the Kitab-i-Hearsay. We don't take it seriously unless it's referenced and checked it ourselves :) On 1/15/07, M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read David Piff's Bahai Lore and then you can show and tell other Bahais that they are repeating unfounded rumors. Almost anything another Bahai could say but can't find is in there. Also remind Bahais that the Guardian said the Faith was scientific in its method, so they should either produce the evidence (citation from the writings) or stop repeating statements they cannot justify, which is gossip and spreading misinformation. Problem solved. Marleen The Revelation proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion) David Friedman wrote: I'm interested to hear if others have often have my experience. Often someone will say the Baha'i Writings say something they do not. I then suggest that the Baha'i Writings in fact say no such thing. They insist the Baha'i Writings does. I'm like okay, but where? They don't know where but insist and eventually I have to give up. I must admit I have been guilty of this myself. A few times here I have referred to what the Writings supposedly say without providing a quote, figuring it is common knowledge. Someone here has asked me where the Writings say such a thing. I've then searched and found there's nothing on it in the Writings. David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe
Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
How does one scientifically demonstrate that the Revelation is scientific in its method? I know of only two methods accepted by most scientists. One is referred to as the scientific method; the other could be known as tracking because it is used to study phenomena which cannot be controlled, as in the study of the movements of heavenly bodies; and free people. Richard. - Original Message - From: Prema To: Baha'i Studies Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: The Baha'i Writings say... This reminds me of a joke we say around these parts, when unable to cite a source for a quote - it's attributed to the Kitab-i-Hearsay. We don't take it seriously unless it's referenced and checked it ourselves :) On 1/15/07, M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read David Piff's Bahai Lore and then you can show and tell other Bahais that they are repeating unfounded rumors. Almost anything another Bahai could say but can't find is in there. Also remind Bahais that the Guardian said the Faith was scientific in its method, so they should either produce the evidence (citation from the writings) or stop repeating statements they cannot justify, which is gossip and spreading misinformation. Problem solved. Marleen The Revelation proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion) David Friedman wrote: I'm interested to hear if others have often have my experience. Often someone will say the Baha'i Writings say something they do not. I then suggest that the Baha'i Writings in fact say no such thing. They insist the Baha'i Writings does. I'm like okay, but where? They don't know where but insist and eventually I have to give up. I must admit I have been guilty of this myself. A few times here I have referred to what the Writings supposedly say without providing a quote, figuring it is common knowledge. Someone here has asked me where the Writings say such a thing. I've then searched and found there's nothing on it in the Writings. David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
Dear Richard, The Guardian says nothing about requiring any demonstrations: The Revelation proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion) But we might ask ourselves what did he mean by this and what are the implications. Perhaps he meant Revelation is rational and that there is evidence to support it. Perhaps it suggests that the administration of the Faith should be based on a sound method of implementation, a method we can learn from and that fosters adjustments for improvement. Perhaps you have your own ideas? Marleen Richard H. Gravelly wrote: How does one scientifically demonstrate that the Revelation is scientific in its method? I know of only two methods accepted by most scientists. One is referred to as the scientific method; the other could be known as tracking because it is used to study phenomena which cannot be controlled, as in the study of the movements of heavenly bodies; and free people. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The Baha'i Writings say...
The Revelation proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. The mission of the Founder of their Faith, they conceive it to be, to proclaim that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is continuous and progressive, that the Founders of all past religions, though differing in the non-essential aspects of their teachings, abide in the same Tabernacle, soar in the same heaven, are seated upon the same throne, utter the same speech and proclaim the same Faith. His Cause, they have already demonstrated, stands identified with, and revolves round, the principle of the organic unity of mankind as representing the consummation of the whole process of human evolution. This final stage in this stupendous evolution, they assert, is not only necessary but inevitable, that it is gradually approaching, and that nothing short of the celestial potency with which a divinely-ordained Message can claim to be endowed can succeed in establishing it. (June 1933, from a letter written by Shoghi Effendi to the High Commissioner for Palestine) (The Universal House of Justice,1997 Aug 13, Science and Religion, p. 2) Here is a source you might except Prema. Regards, Albert Prema wrote: This reminds me of a joke we say around these parts, when unable to cite a source for a quote - it's attributed to the Kitab-i-Hearsay. We don't take it seriously unless it's referenced and checked it ourselves :) On 1/15/07, *M Chase* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read David Piff's Bahai Lore and then you can show and tell other Bahais that they are repeating unfounded rumors. Almost anything another Bahai could say but can't find is in there. Also remind Bahais that the Guardian said the Faith was scientific in its method, so they should either produce the evidence (citation from the writings) or stop repeating statements they cannot justify, which is gossip and spreading misinformation. Problem solved. Marleen The Revelation proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, His followers believe, is divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, broad in its outlook, scientific in its method, humanitarian in its principles and dynamic in the influence it exerts on the hearts and minds of men. (Shoghi Effendi, Summary Statement -The World Religion) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
