[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
Howard, In the Rosani Lutebook there is an anonymous sonata in D minor that has a Minuetto with a Variazione. The minuet just says "Minuetto," while the variation, filled with faster note values, is labeled "un poco moderato." This could be taken to imply that some sort of tempo slowing was acceptable. But in trios? Why was the tempo indicated if it was common practice? Does this even indicate a change of tempo or was the preceding minuetto already meant to be taken "un poco moderato?" Who knows if this was even intended to be danced? Chris --- On Sun, 5/10/09, howard posner wrote: > From: howard posner > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio > To: "baroque Lutelist" > Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 1:56 PM > Nobody seems to have responded to this. > > On May 8, 2009, at 11:33 AM, David Rastall wrote: > > > Isn't it possible that the dancers might have > paused in the dance at > > the end of the minuet, and started the trio at a > different tempo as > > set by the musicians? > > Possible, but I'm not aware of any evidence for it, and > the notion > strikes me as more a musician's whim than a > dancer's. In social > dance, it seems disruptive -- the dancers want to dance, > and chat, > and look each other over, and not have to concentrate on > taking some > musician's changed tempo. You don't want to be > watching for a > downbeat when you could be looking down a lady's blouse > (or, if > you're the lady, asking the lady next to you about the > income of the > gentleman who's been looking down your blouse). > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
On May 10, 2009, at 1:56 PM, howard posner wrote: > On May 8, 2009, at 11:33 AM, David Rastall wrote: > >> Isn't it possible that the dancers might have paused in the dance at >> the end of the minuet, and started the trio at a different tempo as >> set by the musicians? > > Possible, but I'm not aware of any evidence for it, and the notion > strikes me as more a musician's whim than a dancer's. In social > dance, it seems disruptive -- the dancers want to dance, and chat, > and look each other over, and not have to concentrate on taking some > musician's changed tempo. You don't want to be watching for a > downbeat when you could be looking down a lady's blouse (or, if > you're the lady, asking the lady next to you about the income of the > gentleman who's been looking down your blouse). Well, when you put it like that... Davidr dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
Nobody seems to have responded to this. On May 8, 2009, at 11:33 AM, David Rastall wrote: > Isn't it possible that the dancers might have paused in the dance at > the end of the minuet, and started the trio at a different tempo as > set by the musicians? Possible, but I'm not aware of any evidence for it, and the notion strikes me as more a musician's whim than a dancer's. In social dance, it seems disruptive -- the dancers want to dance, and chat, and look each other over, and not have to concentrate on taking some musician's changed tempo. You don't want to be watching for a downbeat when you could be looking down a lady's blouse (or, if you're the lady, asking the lady next to you about the income of the gentleman who's been looking down your blouse). -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
On May 8, 2009, at 1:42 PM, howard posner wrote: > On May 8, 2009, at 9:24 AM, David Rastall wrote: > >> In the mid-Baroque (specifically Lauffensteiner), when you're playing >> a "minuet and trio," is it historically accurate to play them at >> slightly different tempi, or is that strictly a Classsical-period >> thing? > > Someone who actually danced the minuet, or played the minuet as dance > music, would likely not have changed the tempo, because it messes up > the dancing. Isn't it possible that the dancers might have paused in the dance at the end of the minuet, and started the trio at a different tempo as set by the musicians? That's a frequent occurence in dance music, isn't it? (non-rhetorical questions). The minuet and trio I'm looking at here have quite different "feels" to them. The minuet is in F and the trio is in Dm. > Not that anyone would be dancing to Lauffensteiner, but > they would think of dance movements as dance music. I agree, they would. Me too. Perhaps I need to articulate the minuet better, so I don't get bored with it and want to change something at the first chance I get! David R dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
On May 8, 2009, at 1:24 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: > Menuet - trio - menuet seems to be a galant-style thing. Definitely 18th-century, though. Actually, I was mistaken when I said "early 17th century." I meant to say "late 17th century." I'm working on a suite in F Major by Lauffensteiner, and was surprised to see the minuet / trio. > I for one would > certainly play them at different tempo so as to emphasize their > different moods. Thanks for the advice. DR dlu...@verizon.net -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
On May 8, 2009, at 9:24 AM, David Rastall wrote: > In the mid-Baroque (specifically Lauffensteiner), when you're playing > a "minuet and trio," is it historically accurate to play them at > slightly different tempi, or is that strictly a Classsical-period > thing? Someone who actually danced the minuet, or played the minuet as dance music, would likely not have changed the tempo, because it messes up the dancing. Not that anyone would be dancing to Lauffensteiner, but they would think of dance movements as dance music. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Minuet and Trio
Menuet - trio - menuet seems to be a galant-style thing. I for one would certainly play them at different tempo so as to emphasize their different moods. Mathias "David Rastall" schrieb: > Dear Wisdom, > > In the mid-Baroque (specifically Lauffensteiner), when you're playing > a "minuet and trio," is it historically accurate to play them at > slightly different tempi, or is that strictly a Classsical-period thing? > > I'm curious because I don't remember seeing very many minuet / trio > sections from the early 17th century. > > David Rastall > dlu...@verizon.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
