[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: theorbo music sources
Rob, Thanks. I forgot the obvious, obviously. Jurek __ On 2007-12-12, at 21:11, Rob wrote: Jurek, You should ask Lynda Sayce: www.theorbo.com Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 December 2007 19:28 To: Barocklautenliste Lutelist' Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] theorbo music sources Dear List, I know, the Christian MEYER catalogue of sources, both on paper and on the net is a splendid tool for searching through music in tablature, ..but it doesn't mention (the www part) what is for lute and what is for a theorbo. In case of Italian chitarrone music there is Kevin Mason book, too, very usefull. My question, therefore, is -- do you know of any listing, possibly complete, of all other, not Italian, that is French!, German?, English??, etc., theorbo music sources, with their contents, of course? Thanks in advance, Jurek _ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: theorbo music sources
Jurek, You should ask Lynda Sayce: www.theorbo.com Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: Jerzy Zak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12 December 2007 19:28 To: Barocklautenliste Lutelist' Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] theorbo music sources Dear List, I know, the Christian MEYER catalogue of sources, both on paper and on the net is a splendid tool for searching through music in tablature, .but it doesn't mention (the www part) what is for lute and what is for a theorbo. In case of Italian chitarrone music there is Kevin Mason book, too, very usefull. My question, therefore, is -- do you know of any listing, possibly complete, of all other, not Italian, that is French!, German?, English??, etc., theorbo music sources, with their contents, of course? Thanks in advance, Jurek _ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo
Dear Theo I am on a waiting list for a theorbo to used only for solo music, almost exclusively late (like de Visee) although it might occasionally be used to play with very small ensembles at home, or a few early pieces at some time in the far future. The only points for me is to have it strung only in gut (which should not be difficult, I assume), and also on the small side (74/76 cm stoppable string length, probably 8+6.) My hands are not small, but used to 68/70 length, and I am concerned that anything too big will be a problem for me. The model will be Sellas, a multi-ribbed version. Final pitch to play at is not an issue, since I am on my own for that.. If there are any issues I should think about, or watch out for regarding string length or string grouping (like 7+7?), please do let me know, as I Just a few observations from personal experience. Gut on theorbo is not difficult, no thin clos-to-breaking trebles, but there is an issue for strings 6/7/8. I have a 76/140cm theorbo. I think it's called a 'lesser French theorbo' by its makers Stephen Barber and Sandi Harris, but I use it for anything from Italian continuo to French solo music. I have it tuned in a with two re-entrant strings. It could have been bigger as far as fingerboard streches are concerned, but spending an evening with a big and heavy beast on my lap with arm extended, would bring on other health issues I try to avoid. My theorbo started its life with 8 single strings on the fingerboard and 6 on the neck extension. Strings 6, 7 and 8 were overspunns. When I changed these to gut, I found it very hard to find a satisfactory sound on these basses. After much experimenting with gutsy-but-not-quite-gut alternatives, like gimped strings, I am now using a 7+7 configuration with al-gut on 6 and 7. It's ok now, but I think I should go to 6+8 to make it even better. I'm hesitant about giving up the G# on 7 in continuo playing, but surviving instrument were 6+8, I think, so one day I'll give in. Double strings would fix the dull 7 too, as an octave string would add higher harmonics. I'm sure you lute maker can provide enough pegs and space on the two nuts to have 6+8, 7+7 and 8+6 as options. But if you're only (or mainly) going to play solo music and you want an all-gut sound, perhaps 6+8 is the best way to go. David David van Ooijen [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.davidvanooijen.nl To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo
Music written for a big instrument tends to take the size into account. There aren't a lot of big left-hand stretches in the Italian theorbo music I've played. I don't know much about the French repertoire. On Dec 8, 2007, at 9:04 AM, T. Diehl-Peshkur wrote: > Interesting. This is all new info for me. > You will be getting an instrument at 86 cm- so quite full sized. > Can you describe any problems of dealing with that length and playing > more soloist pieces? Isn't that quite difficult? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo
I think there are more theorbo players on the main lute list, Theo, so you might get more feedback there. Everyone is different, of course, and what works for me might not work for you. I found the larger one easier in every respect - musically and physically. Rob www.rmguitar.info _ From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 17:37 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Thanks for that. Musically, that extra sound you mention is a very clear example, and I can follow that. But also fingering wise? In other words, did your fingers feel OK with that length in solo work as well? 76cm I can cope with the first frets; but 86 mentally seems a whole other ball game in those positions... Theo _ From: Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 17:12:59 - To: "'T. Diehl-Peshkur'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Everything is difficult. Getting out of bed is very difficult. Is a large theorbo more difficult than a small one? Well, I used to have both a large 86cms theorbo and a small French one at 76cms at the same time. I actually found the larger one easier. Why, you might well ask? I'm not sure. Maybe the extra resonance helped the music breathe more, and gave me seemingly more time to move around. The small one felt more like a lute or a classical guitar (although with more strings). I sold the small one eventually. The large one was on loan to me from an institution I was teaching at. I no longer teach there, and am looking forward to a new theorbo arriving in a couple of months. I think the French repertoire sounds great on large theorbos, but don't think the Italian repertoire sounds as good on small ones. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 08 December 2007 17:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi Rob, Interesting. This is all new info for me. You will be getting an instrument at 86 cm- so quite full sized. Can you describe any problems of dealing with that length and playing more soloist pieces? Isn't that quite difficult? Thanks, Theo From: Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:58:53 - To: Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi Theo, Some confusion here. Assuming de Visee used the small theorbo, it would be strung in the old tuning but with both the first and second courses down an octave AND the whole thing moved up in pitch so that the first course is a D. This is what I meant when I said you could tune it in D, not D minor tuning. I apologise for not being explicit enough. But it is not certain that he used a small theorbo for his solo pieces, but probable. However, should you want to play Piccinini and Kapsberger as well - they would have been unlikely to play their music on a theorbo in D. But let's get things in perspective, if you want to play both Italian and French theorbo music to yourself, I wouldn't get too worked up about pitch. You say you are mainly concerned with late repertoire, so de Visee in old tuning, with the first two courses down an octave, based on D would be perfect, in my opinion. I have a theorbo arriving in January/February, but at 86 cms I will be tuning it in A, but definitely playing de Visee alongside Piccinini and Kapsberger. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 08 December 2007 16:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hello Rob, Name's Theo :-) Thanks for the info. I assumed that the old renaissance lute tuning with a re-entrant chanterelle was still used by Visee et al, and only know Visee from recordings. Do you mean that a D minor tuning can be used on such a 14 course instrument? Thanks, Theo From: Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:33:44 - To: Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi (what's your first name?) All the surviving solo repertoire (and I'm sure someone will correct me if am wrong) is for 6 courses on the fingerboard. Some players prefer seven for continuo reasons. At the string length you are thinking about, you could tune it in D, as in the small French theorbe de pieces. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 08 December 2007 15:24 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorbo I had a request to all the performers/teachers among you here. Any help would be appreciated. I am on a waiting list for a theorbo to used only for solo music, a
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo
Hi Rob, Interesting. This is all new info for me. You will be getting an instrument at 86 cm- so quite full sized. Can you describe any problems of dealing with that length and playing more soloist pieces? Isn't that quite difficult? Thanks, Theo From: Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:58:53 -0000 To: Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi Theo, Some confusion here. Assuming de Visee used the small theorbo, it would be strung in the old tuning but with both the first and second courses down an octave AND the whole thing moved up in pitch so that the first course is a D. This is what I meant when I said you could tune it in D, not D minor tuning. I apologise for not being explicit enough. But it is not certain that he used a small theorbo for his solo pieces, but probable. However, should you want to play Piccinini and Kapsberger as well - they would have been unlikely to play their music on a theorbo in D. But let's get things in perspective, if you want to play both Italian and French theorbo music to yourself, I wouldn't get too worked up about pitch. You say you are mainly concerned with late repertoire, so de Visee in old tuning, with the first two courses down an octave, based on D would be perfect, in my opinion. I have a theorbo arriving in January/February, but at 86 cms I will be tuning it in A, but definitely playing de Visee alongside Piccinini and Kapsberger. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 16:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hello Rob, Name's Theo :-) Thanks for the info. I assumed that the old renaissance lute tuning with a re-entrant chanterelle was still used by Visee et al, and only know Visee from recordings. Do you mean that a D minor tuning can be used on such a 14 course instrument? Thanks, Theo From: Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:33:44 -0000 To: Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi (what's your first name?) All the surviving solo repertoire (and I'm sure someone will correct me if am wrong) is for 6 courses on the fingerboard. Some players prefer seven for continuo reasons. At the string length you are thinking about, you could tune it in D, as in the small French theorbe de pieces. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 15:24 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorbo I had a request to all the performers/teachers among you here. Any help would be appreciated. I am on a waiting list for a theorbo to used only for solo music, almost exclusively late (like de Visee) although it might occasionally be used to play with very small ensembles at home, or a few early pieces at some time in the far future. The only points for me is to have it strung only in gut (which should not be difficult, I assume), and also on the small side (74/76 cm stoppable string length, probably 8+6.) My hands are not small, but used to 68/70 length, and I am concerned that anything too big will be a problem for me. The model will be Sellas, a multi-ribbed version. Final pitch to play at is not an issue, since I am on my own for that.. If there are any issues I should think about, or watch out for regarding string length or string grouping (like 7+7?), please do let me know, as I have the time now to discuss change details, and I only know baroque lute- so I am a total theorbo newbie. Thanks all! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo
Hi Theo, Some confusion here. Assuming de Visee used the small theorbo, it would be strung in the old tuning but with both the first and second courses down an octave AND the whole thing moved up in pitch so that the first course is a D. This is what I meant when I said you could tune it in D, not D minor tuning. I apologise for not being explicit enough. But it is not certain that he used a small theorbo for his solo pieces, but probable. However, should you want to play Piccinini and Kapsberger as well - they would have been unlikely to play their music on a theorbo in D. But let's get things in perspective, if you want to play both Italian and French theorbo music to yourself, I wouldn't get too worked up about pitch. You say you are mainly concerned with late repertoire, so de Visee in old tuning, with the first two courses down an octave, based on D would be perfect, in my opinion. I have a theorbo arriving in January/February, but at 86 cms I will be tuning it in A, but definitely playing de Visee alongside Piccinini and Kapsberger. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 16:48 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hello Rob, Name's Theo :-) Thanks for the info. I assumed that the old renaissance lute tuning with a re-entrant chanterelle was still used by Visee et al, and only know Visee from recordings. Do you mean that a D minor tuning can be used on such a 14 course instrument? Thanks, Theo From: Rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:33:44 -0000 To: Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Theorbo Hi (what's your first name?) All the surviving solo repertoire (and I'm sure someone will correct me if am wrong) is for 6 courses on the fingerboard. Some players prefer seven for continuo reasons. At the string length you are thinking about, you could tune it in D, as in the small French theorbe de pieces. Rob www.rmguitar.info -Original Message- From: T. Diehl-Peshkur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 December 2007 15:24 To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Theorbo I had a request to all the performers/teachers among you here. Any help would be appreciated. I am on a waiting list for a theorbo to used only for solo music, almost exclusively late (like de Visee) although it might occasionally be used to play with very small ensembles at home, or a few early pieces at some time in the far future. The only points for me is to have it strung only in gut (which should not be difficult, I assume), and also on the small side (74/76 cm stoppable string length, probably 8+6.) My hands are not small, but used to 68/70 length, and I am concerned that anything too big will be a problem for me. The model will be Sellas, a multi-ribbed version. Final pitch to play at is not an issue, since I am on my own for that.. If there are any issues I should think about, or watch out for regarding string length or string grouping (like 7+7?), please do let me know, as I have the time now to discuss change details, and I only know baroque lute- so I am a total theorbo newbie. Thanks all! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
