Auto-Backup failed

[le...@gmail]

I have autobackup set to save a backup version (BBE 8.7.2).  The exact  
text of the preference is "Make backup *before* saving" (emphasis mine).

Well, I was editing a file off a WebDAV location and when I went to  
save it, the computer hung-up.  Evidently the network had become  
unavailable/unstable at some point and everything got very confused.   
The Finder never did come back, and I ended up rebooting. However,  
BBEdit *thought* it had successfully saved the file. I quit BBedit  
before I noticed anything was wrong.

However, BBedit did not, in fact, write a backup BEFORE it saved.  The  
backup file was a copy of the original file I had opened off the  
webdav with none of the changes, and was time-stamped the same as the  
original file on the WebDAV.

Now, BBEdit did not crash.  In fact, BBEdit never even reported an  
error. Searching the logs in /var/logs/ /Library/Logs/ and ~/Library/ 
Logs/ I find nothing at all about bbedit.  So, why was the backup file  
not made *before* saving? Has anyone else seen this kind of behavior?   
(Yes, I am bccing support)

And has BBEdit 9.x restored the ability to set your backup directory  
location without futzing with aliases/links?

-- 
I loved you when our love was blessed I love you now there's
nothing left But sorrow and a sense of overtime


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[Patrick Woolsey]

"le...@gmail"  sez:
[...]
>Well, I was editing a file off a WebDAV location and when I went to
>save it, the computer hung-up.  Evidently the network had become
>unavailable/unstable at some point and everything got very confused.
>The Finder never did come back, and I ended up rebooting. However,
>BBEdit *thought* it had successfully saved the file. I quit BBedit
>before I noticed anything was wrong.
>
>However, BBedit did not, in fact, write a backup BEFORE it saved.  The
>backup file was a copy of the original file I had opened off the
>webdav with none of the changes, and was time-stamped the same as the
>original file on the WebDAV.
>
>Now, BBEdit did not crash.  In fact, BBEdit never even reported an
>error. Searching the logs in /var/logs/ /Library/Logs/ and ~/Library/
>Logs/ I find nothing at all about bbedit.  So, why was the backup file
>not made *before* saving? Has anyone else seen this kind of behavior?
>(Yes, I am bccing support)


If BBEdit didn't report an error, that's because the system didn't return
any errors in response to the save attempts, and when the machine's in a
state where filesystem calls silently fail, there's not much to be done.


Regards,

 Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc.
P.O. Box 1048, Bedford, MA 01730-1048









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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[le...@gmail]

On 13-Jan-2009, at 08:15, Patrick Woolsey wrote:

>
> "le...@gmail"  sez:
> [...]
>> Well, I was editing a file off a WebDAV location and when I went to
>> save it, the computer hung-up.  Evidently the network had become
>> unavailable/unstable at some point and everything got very confused.
>> The Finder never did come back, and I ended up rebooting. However,
>> BBEdit *thought* it had successfully saved the file. I quit BBedit
>> before I noticed anything was wrong.
>>
>> However, BBedit did not, in fact, write a backup BEFORE it saved.   
>> The
>> backup file was a copy of the original file I had opened off the
>> webdav with none of the changes, and was time-stamped the same as the
>> original file on the WebDAV.
>>
>> Now, BBEdit did not crash.  In fact, BBEdit never even reported an
>> error. Searching the logs in /var/logs/ /Library/Logs/ and ~/Library/
>> Logs/ I find nothing at all about bbedit.  So, why was the backup  
>> file
>> not made *before* saving? Has anyone else seen this kind of behavior?
>> (Yes, I am bccing support)
>
>
> If BBEdit didn't report an error, that's because the system didn't  
> return
> any errors in response to the save attempts, and when the machine's  
> in a
> state where filesystem calls silently fail, there's not much to be  
> done.

My issue is not with the save to the WebDAV.  My issue is with  
BBEdit's complete and utter failure to write the backup file.  It says  
it does this *before* so that should not have been an issue.  Instead  
I get a backup file that is 40+ minutes old.

-- 
There is a tragic flaw in our precious Constitution, and I don t
know what can be done to fix it. This is it: Only nut cases
want to be president.


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[Rich Siegel]

On 1/13/09 at 10:31 AM, gkr...@gmail.com (le...@gmail) wrote:

>My issue is not with the save to the WebDAV.  My issue is with
>BBEdit's complete and utter failure to write the backup file.  It says
>it does this *before* so that should not have been an issue.  Instead
>I get a backup file that is 40+ minutes old.

The backup that BBEdit makes before saving is not of the 
contents of the document in memory, but of the file that was on 
disk immediately before the save commences. Perhaps that 
explains what you observed?

R.
-- 
Rich Siegel Bare Bones Software, Inc.
  

Someday I'll look back on all this and laugh... until they 
sedate me.


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[le...@gmail]

On 13-Jan-2009, at 08:49, Rich Siegel wrote:
> On 1/13/09 at 10:31 AM, gkr...@gmail.com (le...@gmail) wrote:
>
>> My issue is not with the save to the WebDAV.  My issue is with
>> BBEdit's complete and utter failure to write the backup file.  It  
>> says
>> it does this *before* so that should not have been an issue.  Instead
>> I get a backup file that is 40+ minutes old.
>
> The backup that BBEdit makes before saving is not of the
> contents of the document in memory, but of the file that was on
> disk immediately before the save commences. Perhaps that
> explains what you observed?

Er.. I would not call that a backup then, I would call that a  
"restore" document, oro something similar.

So, when BBEdit 'backups' the file, it writes the OLD file to the  
backup location and then writes the new data to the file?

Then why is the time stamp on the 'backup' identical to the file on  
the webDAV server?  Is it actually not making a new file, but instead  
copying the old one?

Sigh. I guess I need to make sure and save every file twice.

-- 
Take my hand and I'll show you what was and will be.


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[Bruce Van Allen]

On 1/13/09 at 8:21 AM, gkr...@gmail.com (le...@gmail) wrote:
>On 13-Jan-2009, at 08:49, Rich Siegel wrote:
>>On 1/13/09 at 10:31 AM, gkr...@gmail.com (le...@gmail) wrote:
>>> My issue is not with the save to the WebDAV.  My issue is with
>>> BBEdit's complete and utter failure to write the backup file.  It
>>>  says it does this *before* so that should not have been an 
>>>issue.  Instead I get a backup file that is 40+ minutes old.
>>
>>The backup that BBEdit makes before saving is not of the
>>contents of the document in memory, but of the file that was on
>>disk immediately before the save commences. Perhaps that
>>explains what you observed?
>
>Er.. I would not call that a backup then, I would call that a  
>"restore" document, oro something similar.

Isn't that what a "backup" file is for -- to restore a file to 
the state it was in before you saved changes to it?

>So, when BBEdit 'backups' the file, it writes the OLD file to 
>the  backup location and then writes the new data to the file?

That's what it would mean in every situation I know of where a 
program makes a backup before saving. The changes made would be 
in the original file, i.e., the one you're working on, and the 
previous version would be in the backup file.

>Then why is the time stamp on the 'backup' identical to the 
>file on  the webDAV server?  Is it actually not making a new 
>file, but instead  copying the old one?

Not sure what exactly happened with your webDAV saving problem, 
so it's impossible to answer this.

>Sigh. I guess I need to make sure and save every file twice.

So you want the backup to be the same as the original file?

It's painful to lose work with a failed save -- my sympathies. 
But unless I've misunderstood, you seem to be caught in a thinko 
about what a backup file is. Are you using backups for version 
control, perhaps?





- Bruce

_bruce__van_allen__santa_cruz_ca_


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Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

Hello, in moving to version 9.1, I have turned on line numbers. The  
new line numbers are now anti-aliased, which IMO, sucks.

Here is what I remember it looking like:
http://blog.mistersquid.com/images/2008/03/MSWord2004.doc.jpg

Here is what I am dealing with now, which I find rather hard to read:
http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/153237-bbedit9.png

Is there something in the prefs I am missing?
--
Scott


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Morbus Iff]

> http://blog.mistersquid.com/images/2008/03/MSWord2004.doc.jpg
> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/153237-bbedit9.png

You know, thank you. I had a sneaking suspicion something didn't
quite look right there, but your screenshots make it obvious.

(With that said, I'm already used to it, so no official complaints.)

-- 
Morbus Iff ( tomorrow never comes until it's too late )
Technical: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779
Enjoy: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.videounderbelly.com/
aim: akaMorbus / skype: morbusiff / icq: 2927491 / jabber.org: morbus

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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 3:37 PM, Morbus Iff wrote:

>> http://blog.mistersquid.com/images/2008/03/MSWord2004.doc.jpg
>> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/153237-bbedit9.png
>
> You know, thank you. I had a sneaking suspicion something didn't
> quite look right there, but your screenshots make it obvious.
>
> (With that said, I'm already used to it, so no official complaints.)


I think it will continue to get worse, as screen resolutions get  
higher, the type is going to get smaller.  Thank goodness there are no  
letters in there, as I have a feeling this has the same issues other  
anti-aliasing does when this crops up.

If it is in 9pt, and is anti-aliased, I have found, something is  
wrong.  If it is 9pt, there just should not be anti-aliasing, unless  
you have a preference to turn it on.
--
Scott


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Dennis]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 3:33 PM, Scott Haneda wrote:

> Hello, in moving to version 9.1, I have turned on line numbers. The
> new line numbers are now anti-aliased, which IMO, sucks.

This is one of those things that defies explanation. One person can  
absolutely despise a particular detail and another person can love it.  
And there's no reconciling those differences. There's no persuading  
one or other to change their opinion because it's a deeply personal  
matter of taste.

Personally, I *love* the new anti-aliased line numbers. It's something  
I've been waiting for a very long time in BBEdit. I think they're  
easier to see, they improve the aesthetics of the app, make it look  
more polished and professional, and they make BBEdit feel more modern  
and "in step" with the rest of the Mac platform.

As for higher screen resolutions making anti-aliasing worse, I  
respectfully disagree. My previous hi-res 17-inch MBP (133 dpi) looked  
beautiful with anti-aliased text. And there's been nothing but praise  
for text on the iPhone (160 dpi), which uses anti-aliased fonts  
exclusively.

Having said that, I can sympathize with Scott as I was on the other  
side of the fence for many, many years. I'm not aware of a preference  
setting (GUI or hidden default) to control this behavior. About all I  
can say is try to get used to it. That's what I did when the line  
numbers weren't anti-aliased. :-)

-Dennis

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RE: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Jim Chaffin]

> I think it will continue to get worse, as screen resolutions get
> higher, the type is going to get smaller.  Thank goodness there are no
> letters in there, as I have a feeling this has the same issues other
> anti-aliasing does when this crops up.
>
> If it is in 9pt, and is anti-aliased, I have found, something is
> wrong.  If it is 9pt, there just should not be anti-aliasing, unless
> you have a preference to turn it on.

It may be just my 24" iMac monitor, but I have no trouble reading the  
line numbers with my 65 year old, vision corrected eyes, even without  
my glasses. And I have to assume that the numbers are _not_ being anti- 
aliased as I have specified that only text above 8 points be that way  
in the OS system prefs. OTOH, I may be a complete idiot for assuming  
that those prefs affect anything in BBEdit... Of course, if they do,  
it would be a simple and quick way of seeing if that would help you...

Now, if I could just get these 'floaties and sinkies' to stay at the  
bottom of my eyeballs...

Jim Chaffin
xairbusdri...@mac.com


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Dennis]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Dennis wrote:

> aving said that, I can sympathize with Scott as I was on the other
> side of the fence for many, many years. I'm not aware of a preference
> setting (GUI or hidden default) to control this behavior. About all I
> can say is try to get used to it. That's what I did when the line
> numbers weren't anti-aliased. :-)

One more point: are there any big-name text editors remaining on the  
Mac that still use non-anti-aliased text for line numbers? Every Mac- 
specific text editor I can think of (TextMate, Xcode, Smultron,  
SubEthaEdit, Coda) uses anti-aliased line numbers, at least by  
default. Don't they?

-Dennis 

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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Jim Chaffin wrote:

> It may be just my 24" iMac monitor, but I have no trouble reading  
> the line numbers with my 65 year old, vision corrected eyes, even  
> without my glasses. And I have to assume that the numbers are _not_  
> being anti-aliased as I have specified that only text above 8 points  
> be that way in the OS system prefs. OTOH, I may be a complete idiot  
> for assuming that those prefs affect anything in BBEdit... Of  
> course, if they do, it would be a simple and quick way of seeing if  
> that would help you...

yes, that setting does turn off antialiasing, but has negative effects  
in other apps, and in BBedit, it makes it more non readable.
--
Scott


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Dennis wrote:

> On Jan 13, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Dennis wrote:
>
>> aving said that, I can sympathize with Scott as I was on the other
>> side of the fence for many, many years. I'm not aware of a preference
>> setting (GUI or hidden default) to control this behavior. About all I
>> can say is try to get used to it. That's what I did when the line
>> numbers weren't anti-aliased. :-)
>
> One more point: are there any big-name text editors remaining on the
> Mac that still use non-anti-aliased text for line numbers? Every Mac-
> specific text editor I can think of (TextMate, Xcode, Smultron,
> SubEthaEdit, Coda) uses anti-aliased line numbers, at least by
> default. Don't they?


TextMate clearly uses 9pt that is clean and crisp.
http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/161936-textmate.png

This is a windows one called coda I have some friends that use:
http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/161951-cfi%20coda.png

Coda from panic seems to have the same issues as BBedit
http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/162011-codapanic.png

If it is 9pt and in a font that does not have a postscript version,  
so, just a bitmap, like, the old standard monaco, it should show  
clean.  Other than Entourage, I am not aware of apps that do not  
follow this idea.  It is why I moved to Apple Mail, so that monaco 9  
would not look like junk.

I would love to know why BBedit made the change, if this has to do  
with the ATSUI issues that plague all Office products, I feel for you  
guys, but it would be time to move away from that stuff.
--
Scott


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Dennis]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 4:23 PM, Scott Haneda wrote:

> TextMate clearly uses 9pt that is clean and crisp.
> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/161936-textmate.png

I think TextMate's line numbers are displayed in the same font as the  
main content area. But doesn't TextMate default to 12pt Monaco at  
install? I can't remember and deleted the app a long time ago, so I  
can't check. But if it does, then my original assertion still stands.

> This is a windows one called coda I have some friends that use:
> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/161951-cfi%20coda.png

There's all kinds of weird-looking shit in Windows, so this one  
doesn't count. :-)

> Coda from panic seems to have the same issues as BBedit
> http://www.newgeo.com/web/misc/162011-codapanic.png

The same issue? You mean they made the same *design decision* as Bare  
Bones. After all, it's not a bug, right? Just a design decision you  
don't agree with.

> If it is 9pt and in a font that does not have a postscript version,
> so, just a bitmap, like, the old standard monaco, it should show
> clean.  Other than Entourage, I am not aware of apps that do not
> follow this idea.  It is why I moved to Apple Mail, so that monaco 9
> would not look like junk.

The BBEdit 9.1 release notes said line numbers are now displayed in  
the system font. And upon closer inspection, they sure look like 9pt  
Lucida Grande.

> I would love to know why BBedit made the change...

That would be interesting to hear. I suspect it was not out of  
necessity, but rather a desire to "modernize" the UI.

-Dennis

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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[Robert A. Rosenberg]

At 08:31 -0700 on 01/13/2009, le...@gmail wrote about Re: Auto-Backup failed:

>My issue is not with the save to the WebDAV.  My issue is with 
>BBEdit's complete and utter failure to write the backup file.  It says 
>it does this *before* so that should not have been an issue.  Instead
>I get a backup file that is 40+ minutes old.

If I were designing this function, I would create the backup 
immediately upon open. If the file is just viewed without being 
edited/updated, then delete the backup when the file is closed or 
when BBEdit is shut-down. If it worked this way, you would have the 
backup you wanted.

Note: I am not critiquing the current method (which I assume is a 
rename of the file just prior to doing the save of the updated 
version under the original name) but only suggesting a safer but more 
labor intensive method. There is also the option of doing snapshots 
of the current status to the local HD (just like a word processor 
does) and cleaning up after the save.
-- 


Robert A. Rosenberg
RAR Programming Systems Ltd.
(845)-357-0931 - Home
(646)-479-1984 - Cell Phone
(646)-349-4025 - Fax

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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[Robert A. Rosenberg]

At 11:34 -0800 on 01/13/2009, Bruce Van Allen wrote about Re: 
Auto-Backup failed:

>It's painful to lose work with a failed save -- my sympathies.

That is solved by just doing save periodically (and when you do the 
final save, manually delete the intermediate back-ups that were 
triggered by the saves leaving the original back-up of your initial 
state and the final updated copy). There is also the option of asking 
for a new feature that does a periodic back-up to your Hard Drive 
like is done with a wordprocessor. The save erases these status files 
and if you crash, the latest is offered to you to recover your 
updates (again, just like with a WP).



-- 


Robert A. Rosenberg
RAR Programming Systems Ltd.
(845)-357-0931 - Home
(646)-479-1984 - Cell Phone
(646)-349-4025 - Fax

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Grep scripting

[russw]

Patrick, et all,

I am a new member and Patrick asked me to post my questions here for
the benefit of all.

I am working with BBedit and automator to script some html changes to
a list of filenames.

I now have the opportunity to use my actual in-house filenames for the
script... example 100050-D  vrs the arbitrary text 01-06-2009-
stock_photo. This is made possible through A Better Finder Renamer,
which can rename (macOS) finder items from a list found in a text
file.

However, this now poses a problem with non repeating characters to
search and replace on. They also vary in the number of characters in
the filename, can this work?

Is there a grep script that will take the following

100050-D.htm

or any of the following...
5.htm
61305-M.htm
50161-L.htm

and turn it into this...

http://widstock.com/static/100050-D.htm";>100050-D.htm

The above examples are all of my filename styles. I can see now why a
standard length and structure would have been smart at the onset.

Thanks for any help here.

Russ


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[David Nugent]

On 14/01/2009, at 6:34 AM, Bruce Van Allen wrote:

>>> The backup that BBEdit makes before saving is not of the
>>> contents of the document in memory, but of the file that was on
>>> disk immediately before the save commences. Perhaps that
>>> explains what you observed?
>>
>> Er.. I would not call that a backup then, I would call that a
>> "restore" document, oro something similar.
>
> Isn't that what a "backup" file is for -- to restore a file to
> the state it was in before you saved changes to it?
>
>
>> So, when BBEdit 'backups' the file, it writes the OLD file to
>> the  backup location and then writes the new data to the file?
>
> That's what it would mean in every situation I know of where a
> program makes a backup before saving. The changes made would be
> in the original file, i.e., the one you're working on, and the
> previous version would be in the backup file.


Just my 2c...

BBEdit works exactly how every editor I have used that supported  
backups over the last 30+ years on a dozen+ different platforms. If it  
simply saved another copy of what was being saved, I would consider  
that very abnormal and undesirable behaviour, particularly so if it  
only supported a single generation.


Regards,

--
David Nugent
deepr...@gmail.com




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Re: Grep scripting

[Ronald J Kimball]

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 03:37:06PM -0800, russw wrote:

> Is there a grep script that will take the following
> 
> 100050-D.htm
> 
> or any of the following...
> 5.htm
> 61305-M.htm
> 50161-L.htm
> 
> and turn it into this...
> 
> http://widstock.com/static/100050-D.htm";>100050-D.htm li>
> 
> The above examples are all of my filename styles. I can see now why a
> standard length and structure would have been smart at the onset.

Are these filenames mixed in with other text, or do you simply have a list
of filenames?

Anyway, here's something to start with:

Find
(\d+(?:-[A-Z])?\.htm)

Replace
http://widstock.com/static/\1";>\1

Ronald

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Re: Grep scripting

[Patrick James]

Hi Russ

If the new filenames are all in a list then fortunately it is rather  
easy :)

Simply make sure, first, that there is nothing else in the file but  
the filenames.

Then

Find: .+

Replace: http://widstock.com/static/&";>&

The assumption is that each filename is all of the line. You might  
want to check if there are any spaces or other "invisible" characters  
first.

A very brief explanation.

As I think you know .+ will find all the characters in a line except  
the return at the end.

The & rather handily will put all that is found in the find expression  
into the replace expression. Here it is used twice because we need the  
found string twice in the replace expression.

Patrick

http://www.patrickjames.co.uk

On 13 Jan 2009, at 23:37, russw wrote:

> Is there a grep script that will take the following
>
> 100050-D.htm
>
> or any of the following...
> 5.htm
> 61305-M.htm
> 50161-L.htm
>
> and turn it into this...
>
> http://widstock.com/static/100050-D.htm";>100050-D.htm li>
>
> The above examples are all of my filename styles. I can see now why a
> standard length and structure would have been smart at the onset.
>
> Thanks for any help here.


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[le...@gmail]

On 13-Jan-2009, at 12:34, Bruce Van Allen wrote:
> So you want the backup to be the same as the original file?

Right. A second backup file in a different location that is a copy of  
what is on the remote server.

> It's painful to lose work with a failed save -- my sympathies.
> But unless I've misunderstood, you seem to be caught in a thinko
> about what a backup file is. Are you using backups for version
> control, perhaps?

I think of backup file in the same way that I think of my Time Machine  
backups or my rsync backups of my file server; they are copies of the  
current files that I can use to restore if something goes wrong. In  
those cases I *also* have historical versions of the files, but then  
again, I do also with BBEdit.  I did not expect my BBedit backups to  
be 'one version behind'.  However, it does speak to the stability of  
BBedit, webDAV, and OS X in general that this is the first time I've  
even encountered this issue.

Now, if only BBedit had a "auto-save every 5 minutes" setting... (Save  
auto-recovery information every 5 minutes doesn't seem to do that as  
the auto-recovery folder was empty.  But then again, BBEdit didn't  
crash or anything.  As far as it was concerned, it exited cleanly.)



-- 
Oh and I could be a genius if I just put my mind to it And I, I
could do anything if only I could get 'round to it.


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[le...@gmail]

On 13-Jan-2009, at 16:56, Dennis wrote:
> Personally, I *love* the new anti-aliased line numbers. It's something
> I've been waiting for a very long time in BBEdit. I think they're
> easier to see, they improve the aesthetics of the app, make it look
> more polished and professional, and they make BBEdit feel more modern
> and "in step" with the rest of the Mac platform.


I was about to post almost exactly the same thing myself. :)

-- 
The Piper's calling you to join him


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Re: Auto-Backup failed

[Charlie Garrison]

Good afternoon,

On 13/01/09 at 7:19 PM -0700, le...@gmail  wrote:

>On 13-Jan-2009, at 12:34, Bruce Van Allen wrote:
>> So you want the backup to be the same as the original file?
>
>Right. A second backup file in a different location that is a 
>copy of  what is on the remote server.

Have you thought about attaching a script to the Save menu item? 
Then you can set it up just the way you want. I used to have 
something similar for uploading file copy to FTP server every 
time I saved.


Charlie

-- 
Charlie Garrison  
PO Box 141, Windsor, NSW 2756, Australia

O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt

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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 6:43 PM, le...@gmail wrote:

> On 13-Jan-2009, at 16:56, Dennis wrote:
>> Personally, I *love* the new anti-aliased line numbers. It's  
>> something
>> I've been waiting for a very long time in BBEdit. I think they're
>> easier to see, they improve the aesthetics of the app, make it look
>> more polished and professional, and they make BBEdit feel more modern
>> and "in step" with the rest of the Mac platform.
>
> I was about to post almost exactly the same thing myself. :)


Curious, what font and point size do you use in your editor?  Do you  
also edit in anti-aliased?  Personally, I am not a fan of the new line  
numbers, I find them hard to read.  They should just be the font you  
use in your editor, and size as well.

If you use a larger point size, the line numbers have to have a lot of  
space between them.  If the line numbers were the same as your editor,  
they would adjust in size.

As it is now, those line numbers are not point size adjustable, as  
screen resolutions increase, this will become an issue.
--
Scott


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Dennis]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 8:52 PM, Scott Haneda wrote:

> If you use a larger point size, the line numbers have to have a lot of
> space between them.  If the line numbers were the same as your editor,
> they would adjust in size.

Again, that's a matter of personal preference. And it's actually one  
of the many things I didn't like about TextMate. I see line numbers as  
part of the UI chrome, not user content. So it seems logical that they  
should use the system font like the rest of the UI chrome. TextMate,  
on the other hand, treats line numbers almost as part of the content,  
going so far as to even scroll them with the content area when you  
scroll horizontally. That just seems wrong to me.

If there's going to be user control over this, one should at least be  
able to adjust the line number typeface separately from the content  
typeface.

> As it is now, those line numbers are not point size adjustable, as
> screen resolutions increase, this will become an issue.

Yes, and so will all the other UI chrome in BBEdit, along with the UI  
chrome in the vast majority of other apps in OS X, including Apple's!  
Have you seen the tiny, anti-aliased text Apple uses in its pro app?

But the industry is not going to switch to super hi-res displays over  
night. As the industry gradually changes, and Mac OS X completes its  
transition to resolution-independence, BBEdit and every other app on  
the system will adjust. I'm sure Bare Bones (and many other  
developers) have already given this at least some thought. But at this  
point, it's not something to worry about.

-Dennis

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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

On Jan 13, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Dennis wrote:

> On Jan 13, 2009, at 8:52 PM, Scott Haneda wrote:
>
>> If you use a larger point size, the line numbers have to have a lot  
>> of
>> space between them.  If the line numbers were the same as your  
>> editor,
>> they would adjust in size.
>
> Again, that's a matter of personal preference. And it's actually one
> of the many things I didn't like about TextMate. I see line numbers as
> part of the UI chrome, not user content. So it seems logical that they
> should use the system font like the rest of the UI chrome. TextMate,
> on the other hand, treats line numbers almost as part of the content,
> going so far as to even scroll them with the content area when you
> scroll horizontally. That just seems wrong to me.

Agreed, personal preference, and for that, it should have a  
preference.  Totally agree on the wonky behavior of line numbers  
moving off screen, that struck me as bizarre as well.

For me this is just about readability, and I find that clear crisp  
type is what I want, even on the line numbers.  The rest of the UI, I  
agree with you, line numbers, I would love a preference in this case.

> If there's going to be user control over this, one should at least be
> able to adjust the line number typeface separately from the content
> typeface.

That would be ideal, I would be willing to have, "use system fonts"  
and "use content font"

>> As it is now, those line numbers are not point size adjustable, as
>> screen resolutions increase, this will become an issue.
>
> Yes, and so will all the other UI chrome in BBEdit, along with the UI
> chrome in the vast majority of other apps in OS X, including Apple's!
> Have you seen the tiny, anti-aliased text Apple uses in its pro app?

Yeah, and to be honest, I will not use their apps for that reason.  It  
is terribly hard to read and use, to the point I will wait for  
scalable UI elements.
--
Scott


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Re: Line numbers and anti-aliasing

[Scott Haneda]

While I understand it would not be supported, is there a defaults  
command, or some hidden setting I can alter to put line numbers into  
monaco 9?
--
Scott


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