Re: Perfect Orchard
Dear Per, We need a discussion on this. Radionics, is not exactly the same as field broadcasting. But they are related. I'll have to get back to this. In the meanwhile, any others like to have a go at this? Hugh Visit our website at: www.unionag.org
Re: Perfect Orchard
Lloyd, Gil & etal., One of the parts Per had written was: >In our case we also need to drain the field from stagnated water, Now over the years I & others have brought bladder infections and diarrhea etc. back from health threateningness. By dowsing the correct potency of the burning urine or stool soup and potentizing it as a remedy. (There is of course still the need to set the system to balance etc. but it stops the gross expression of the dis-ease & literally can keep one in the body!) So where I am going is obvious: potentize the stagnate water and broadcast it to the field as part of the remedial work. ?. Hi Markess This is interesting!!. I drank a lot of rough water as a youngster - pond water - roadside puddles - as long as there was no actual dead body visible I would drink it - I developed a little more sense as I grew older - but I never had stomach or bladder problems from drinking water with bugs in it, and almost never got diarrhea either. Chemical treated town water is a different issue, dont like that stuff. I guess I'm thinking that if there's chemicals in this stagnant water its a bad idea? otherwise would probably be good? Also think Gils idea of broadcasting rates for porosity, air circulation, is good, I've done this using Rae cards and got good reactions (there's a card for unbeneficial effect of pesticides too). Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Perfect Orchard
- Original Message - From: COYOTEHILLFARM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 1:19 AM Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard Hi Gil and all ->One can not create a hard pan in sand, gravel or loam<- Our hardpan was created when our part of the would was a part of the African continent and the plates was under water for millions of year's ? (words from our university people) Most of the Eastern US have this stuff. Gooday Per Garp I live in a different part of Australia to Gil and we have no trouble finding hardpan in sand, gravel or loam soils, usually at shallow depth, cultivation to break it will work, but if the basic chemistry and microbes are not taken care of it will quickly reform - usually at the bottom of the new level of cultivation - so all that ripping does in the long term is drive the hardpan further down the profile. If you intend to rip (or dig trenches) you need to do a soil test of the subsoil (a full CEC test with all trace minerals) to make sure that you are not going to expose yourself to more problems in the form of chemical imbalances that are in the subsoil (accumulated Boron and high Sodium would be two that I would look for in southern Australian soils). If the mixed soil will make a decent soil test then its OK to proceed but there are often problems in the subsoil that are better left undisturbed. You should probably read some of the acres eco farming books (Phil Wheeler, Arden Andersen) If you have low calcium soil, Lime is needed to restore the CEC balance and you will need a carbon source to hold and activate it. Get the soil critters working for you but remember that like you, they work best with food, water,air, and a comfortable home. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Perfect Orchard
Title: Re: Perfect Orchard HI AND GOOD MORNING ->Per what else do you know of the soils history?<- This farm was establish proximally 1830 or so, it was a hors farm at first, but it turned to be a milking farm probably in the 20/30 as ware common sheep farming was the big thing but that's a guess, all our fields have been farmed all this time probably with grasses for hey. Manure from cows and/or sheep have been spread on the fields for many years, but for 10 years as of lately normal chemical have been spread in the spring, our pond/ water are normally contaminated with runoff from a farm up the street. (covered with green slime stuff) We have goats and sheep to help prepare the land for grapes. Thanks Per Garp/NH - Original Message - From: Moen Creek To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 11:23 PM Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard Lloyd, Gil & etal.,One of the parts Per had written was:>In our case we also need to drain the field from stagnated water,Now over the years I & others have brought bladder infections and diarrhea etc. back from health threateningness. By dowsing the correct potency of the burning urine or stool soup and potentizing it as a remedy. (There is of course still the need to set the system to balance etc. but it stops the gross expression of the dis-ease & literally can keep one in the body!)So where I am going is obvious: potentize the stagnate water and broadcast it to the field as part of the remedial work. ?. But her I am trying to resolve a situation and need to ask:Per what else do you know of the soils history?In Love & LightMarkess
Re: Perfect Orchard
Title: Re: Perfect Orchard Lloyd, Gil & etal., One of the parts Per had written was: >In our case we also need to drain the field from stagnated water, Now over the years I & others have brought bladder infections and diarrhea etc. back from health threateningness. By dowsing the correct potency of the burning urine or stool soup and potentizing it as a remedy. (There is of course still the need to set the system to balance etc. but it stops the gross expression of the dis-ease & literally can keep one in the body!) So where I am going is obvious: potentize the stagnate water and broadcast it to the field as part of the remedial work. ?. But her I am trying to resolve a situation and need to ask: Per what else do you know of the soils history? In Love & Light Markess
Re: Perfect Orchard
Hi Gil and all ->One can not create a hard pan in sand, gravel or loam<- Our hardpan was created when our part of the would was a part of the African continent and the plates was under water for millions of year's ? (words from our university people) Most of the Eastern US have this stuff. Hardpan in our case are nearly always sandy. Clay is around but you need to look for it. Our hardpan is a 10 cm thick layer of compressed sand, and if you dig more the sand will be more coarser the more/dipper you dig, normally a dug well is 10/20 feet dip here and it will have water Please describe the difference cycles: ->there is nothing like a fully functional BD cycle to assist. A good organic cycle will also ->work, but I see a BD cycle as being better. In a Chemical Cycle BD cycle Organic cycle Chemical cycle Please elaborate ->does not bring salt or clay to the surface, nor does it bury the soil in the lower levels. <- Are you stating that digging a trench and mixing the soil and sub-soil is a bad thing ?? To recap, you would recommend gypsum 4 ton/hectare (=1 ton/acre) over 4 year ?? Please explain ->"functional cationic forces to hold water and minerals"<- Thanks for all of this comments, they are very helpful Per Garp/NH - Original Message - From: Gil Robertson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 06:23 AM Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard Hi! Markess, While Lute Larson may have developed additional rates, she started with the same that I have access to, but have not has occasion to use, in the case of Hard Pan. Hard Pan either indicates the lower point of tillage and is some times treated by the sue of irregular depth tines or chisel plough. It usually is associated with clay or some form a colloidal. It may be related to loading by stock or machinery, again related to a clay layer. One can not create a hard pan in sand, gravel or loam. The advantage of using Gypsum, in some places called Clay Breaker or Pan Breaker, is that it is a very low impact, energetic method, which requires little fuel/ machinery and does not bring salt or clay to the surface, nor does it bury the soil in the lower levels. As I have said before, there is nothing like a fully functional BD cycle to assist. A good organic cycle will also work, but I see a BD cycle as being better. In a Chemical Cycle, most activity is in the top 50 mil (2") or so. A really high firing Organic or BD Cycle can penetrate 400, 500 or even 600 mil. This will require enough soil biota food, as stated in the earlier post, and mineral balancing, if required. In cases of bad pan, gypsum will bring results in months instead of years. The amount of gypsum held in the space made by cupping both hands and spread on a square metre is about one tonne to the hectare and is the minimum amount. If one has half a metre to one and a half metres to deal with, to get down to weathered granite and to allow in ground drainage, such as in totally saturated soils, then, one may use up to four tonne to the hectare. This would not usually be applied at one time, but over two to four years. Over time the effect of the gypsum will fall away and on occasionally, need replication. I have 50 mil to 150 mil of highly clayey top soil, with 100 to 150 mil of clayey sub-soil, with 600 to 1,200 mil of sticky brown clay, over a penetrable weathered granite of 700 to 1,500 mil, then solid granite. I have gone from drowning fruit trees and vines to allowing drainage, with the equivalent of around three tonne to the hectare over three years. This has been supported with composting/ Preps/ Soil Food. The roots can now get down to the natural mineral layers. I( have over come the difficulties related to the drying of clay soils, where there is great damage to the root hairs, which only shows up later as set back trees and is usually regarded as being something else. If your soils clump, clod or crack, you have to look at breaking them with gypsum. When looking at this, do not get carried away with trying to work out the chemistry. We are dealing with energy and the various attractive forces at a molecular level. We still need some functional cationic forces to hold water and minerals for use by the soil biota and ultimately the plant, but we also need to allow penetration of air and water. Moen Creek wrote: Gil you wrote: Clay has the ability to cling together and form tough blocks. Great for making adobe or pise houses. Increased soil carbon and increased soil biota will help, but in the short term use one to four tonnes of gypsum to the hectare, will break the clay and allow water penetration and largely break the pan without ripping. If you trench, you will most likely loose your soil into the lower regions and bring the clay to the surface
Re: What is Willard Water / human ingestion of the preps
Sensitive question !! >---A more sensitive friend of mine got a drop > slashed into his mouth and had all his throat glands > swell up on him. For us with asthma, this can be a problem what issues have be notice. Do one have to take precautions as with chemical applications ? Any handling Recommendations ?? Per Garp/NH - Original Message - From: "Chris Shade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:02 PM Subject: Re: What is Willard Water / human ingestion of the preps > Allan, > > I feel the same way about "preps for breakfast". They > are a decomposed product mad for the decompostition > zone (the soil). Yes, recompostition is a big part of > plant feeding, but this stuff is still for the dark > side. As per "indications", they are meant to help > the soil to help the plants gather these forces from > the SOIL into the PLANT. > > On the other hand, though, the "soilish" effect could > be altered by homeopathic potentising to specific > levels. But, why not just make preparations along > spagyric method lines, with the same plants, but > meant, in origin, for human consumption. > > Maybe I am just square, but I won't put BD500 in my > mouth. I did by accident once and it felt mighty > strange. A more sensitive friend of mine got a drop > slashed into his mouth and had all his throat glands > swell up on him. > > Cheers, > Chris > > > --- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So Steve, I don't understand. If the preps are good > > medicine, why did > > steiner tell us to eat traditional foods that were > > grown in soils and > > atmospheres enlivened by the preps rather than to > > eat the preps > > themselves? > > > > Like most BD practitioners, I drink a gulp or so > > from every batch of > > whatever I stir, but, I'll tell you brother, I often > > feel more energy > > from a mouthful of BD kale than I do from a mouthful > > of bd501 stirred > > in water. > > > > My personal experience and my personal sense is that > > the preps are > > part of the bigger picture and not super medicine in > > and of > > themselves. The enliven soil and food in harmony > > with the totality of > > Nature and are not an end in and of themselves. > > > > Of course, I remain very interested in your > > sensibilities and your experiences. > > > > _Allan > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com >
Re: Other than Jeavons?
Title: Re: WENDELL BERRY: The Agrarian Standard Hi Pat, You can print this Introductory BD class out and read it at your leisure and also refer to it as required It is about 26 pages. Cheryl KempEducation and Workshop CoordinatorBiodynamic AgriCulture AustraliaPhone /Fax : 02 6657 5322 Home: 02 6657 5306email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web: www.biodynamics.net.au - Original Message - From: PAT MCGAULEY To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 8:20 AM Subject: Re: Other than Jeavons? Good grief, Tony: I was just toddling along musing through your post late last night when the link to www.oregon.org caught my eye as offering an introductory class to biodynamics. That was yesterday. I did it! I read the whole thing. Now I have more questions than answers for sure, but feel better prepared to continue in my quest for attaining more-than-organic gardening status. Thanks for the all-nighter, I think. Confession: My brain and butt had both caved in by the time we reached the glossary in the back. Must return there soon as likely many of the puzzlers will be put into placeMaybe the Oregon folks could have made that part of the course available in the beginning or better still, on an ad lib basis for the occasional doofus stumbling through. Thanks again for the great night. Patti, central Florida [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is Willard Water / human ingestion of the preps
How many bacteria or the like are going to survive an alcohol tincture process do you reckon? Are the spiritual activities of the soil and plant different to those active with humans? After 20 years of ingesting them on a regular basis I have no fear of them or their activity, in fact I believe them to be one of the simplest and best type of human health prevention and cure. A true gift by RS. cheers GA Chris Shade wrote: > > Allan, > > I feel the same way about "preps for breakfast". They > are a decomposed product mad for the decompostition > zone (the soil). Yes, recompostition is a big part of > plant feeding, but this stuff is still for the dark > side. As per "indications", they are meant to help > the soil to help the plants gather these forces from > the SOIL into the PLANT. > > On the other hand, though, the "soilish" effect could > be altered by homeopathic potentising to specific > levels. But, why not just make preparations along > spagyric method lines, with the same plants, but > meant, in origin, for human consumption. > > Maybe I am just square, but I won't put BD500 in my > mouth. I did by accident once and it felt mighty > strange. A more sensitive friend of mine got a drop > slashed into his mouth and had all his throat glands > swell up on him. > > Cheers, > Chris > > --- Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So Steve, I don't understand. If the preps are good > > medicine, why did > > steiner tell us to eat traditional foods that were > > grown in soils and > > atmospheres enlivened by the preps rather than to > > eat the preps > > themselves? > > > > Like most BD practitioners, I drink a gulp or so > > from every batch of > > whatever I stir, but, I'll tell you brother, I often > > feel more energy > > from a mouthful of BD kale than I do from a mouthful > > of bd501 stirred > > in water. > > > > My personal experience and my personal sense is that > > the preps are > > part of the bigger picture and not super medicine in > > and of > > themselves. The enliven soil and food in harmony > > with the totality of > > Nature and are not an end in and of themselves. > > > > Of course, I remain very interested in your > > sensibilities and your experiences. > > > > _Allan > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Garuda Biodynamics - for BD Preps, Consultations, Books & Diagrams See our web site @ http://get.to/garuda
forum to inro. peppering, weed control with weeds and biol. control beetle, etc.
Pacific Northwest Weed conf. Sometime in March. Kamloops, BC. Info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Bruno Delasalle. Great forum to introduce BD peppering, biol. control with beetles and other weeds, etc. Michael
Re: Perfect Orchard
Hi! Markess, While Lute Larson may have developed additional rates, she started with the same that I have access to, but have not has occasion to use, in the case of Hard Pan. Hard Pan either indicates the lower point of tillage and is some times treated by the sue of irregular depth tines or chisel plough. It usually is associated with clay or some form a colloidal. It may be related to loading by stock or machinery, again related to a clay layer. One can not create a hard pan in sand, gravel or loam. The advantage of using Gypsum, in some places called Clay Breaker or Pan Breaker, is that it is a very low impact, energetic method, which requires little fuel/ machinery and does not bring salt or clay to the surface, nor does it bury the soil in the lower levels. As I have said before, there is nothing like a fully functional BD cycle to assist. A good organic cycle will also work, but I see a BD cycle as being better. In a Chemical Cycle, most activity is in the top 50 mil (2") or so. A really high firing Organic or BD Cycle can penetrate 400, 500 or even 600 mil. This will require enough soil biota food, as stated in the earlier post, and mineral balancing, if required. In cases of bad pan, gypsum will bring results in months instead of years. The amount of gypsum held in the space made by cupping both hands and spread on a square metre is about one tonne to the hectare and is the minimum amount. If one has half a metre to one and a half metres to deal with, to get down to weathered granite and to allow in ground drainage, such as in totally saturated soils, then, one may use up to four tonne to the hectare. This would not usually be applied at one time, but over two to four years. Over time the effect of the gypsum will fall away and on occasionally, need replication. I have 50 mil to 150 mil of highly clayey top soil, with 100 to 150 mil of clayey sub-soil, with 600 to 1,200 mil of sticky brown clay, over a penetrable weathered granite of 700 to 1,500 mil, then solid granite. I have gone from drowning fruit trees and vines to allowing drainage, with the equivalent of around three tonne to the hectare over three years. This has been supported with composting/ Preps/ Soil Food. The roots can now get down to the natural mineral layers. I( have over come the difficulties related to the drying of clay soils, where there is great damage to the root hairs, which only shows up later as set back trees and is usually regarded as being something else. If your soils clump, clod or crack, you have to look at breaking them with gypsum. When looking at this, do not get carried away with trying to work out the chemistry. We are dealing with energy and the various attractive forces at a molecular level. We still need some functional cationic forces to hold water and minerals for use by the soil biota and ultimately the plant, but we also need to allow penetration of air and water. Moen Creek wrote: Gil you wrote: Clay has the ability to cling together and form tough blocks. Great for making adobe or pise houses. Increased soil carbon and increased soil biota will help, but in the short term use one to four tonnes of gypsum to the hectare, will break the clay and allow water penetration and largely break the pan without ripping. If you trench, you will most likely loose your soil into the lower regions and bring the clay to the surface. It will also tend to make a place for water to lay and rot the roots. I would not do it. Try gypsum first. I don't have a lot of experience in this area being my bottom lands were never worked with tractors. But I believe Lute Larson and others have had great Radionic success with hard pan and even standing water using Radionic rates to increase porosity and air circulation. The field broadcaster would be a great device to set these patterns consistently. On a slightly different tact I intent this coming year to pay closer attention to light circulation in soil. Mark Purdey's work and discussions here on the list have touched on Light's relationship to to proper growth and mineral transmutation. Given my assumed role of CU & ZN in soil's circulation of light do you think that gypsum would decrease heavy clays tendencies to towards celating these metals. Gypsum as a "gem" stone has interesting transmissions of laser light with odd effects ie halos and hot spots. In musing In Love & Light Markess
RE: December 11, 2002 Global Temperature Near Record for 2002
Barry Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Please note that the IPCC projections mentioned below DO NOT take into >account the possibility that the earth's climate can transition abruptly >into one of many "states". This is, increasingly, being viewed as a real >possibility given what we now know about the planet's climatic past. > I have been wondering how this may affect efforts to maintain and develop open-pollinated seeds - can our varieties keep up with the pace of climate change? The article in the last issue of Biodynamics "Saving Seed Makes Sense" by Brett Grosgahl described how it can take years of dedicated selection to get a variety well adapted to your individual growing conditions. If those conditions are swinging from extreme to extreme I don't know if genetic engineering will offer any solution - maybe if we move into periods of consistent drought or sub-normal temperatures, but can the labs breed seeds that will grow through the unpredictable and rapid changes? It underlines the ever-pressing need for o-p seed trials, to find those varieties which somehow manage to grow regardless of what nature may throw at them - and/or the need to plant multiple varieties in anticipation of all conditions. Go through the SSE Yearbook and look for the 100 year olds, the "Never Fails", the "Champions", the "Wonders" as a starting point. Biodynamics began with a need to revigorate seed stocks, and we still face that need today. Just wondering what the future may bring as I clean the last of the 2002 seed crops. Will these seeds make it through next year's conditions? Will they still be growing here 10 years from now? Nancy G. __ The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Re: Perfect Orchard ??
Dear Per Now that you have given your location and soil description it is easier to make a suggestion. Have your soil chemistry analyzed by Brookside Lab. or similar then work on balancing your cation exchange to suit grape vines. Drain as mentioned and form up windrows to plant on. grape roots like to be warm. I would be a bit cautious about sheep and goat manure as they tend to make the ground harder, or at least that is my experience. Horse manure has the most soil loosening effect, followed by cow. This is of course to be composted and prepped. Then be generous with the Horn manure and barrel compost. You need to get the soil life going which means you may need to drain to avoid waterlogging at any time. If you really do need to loosen the subsoil mechanically I suggest that you look at gelignite, I have seen it used to good effect under trees that were stunted by hard pan. In this way the topsoil would remain on top. Go and have a look at what Steven Storch is doing and perhaps get some advice from him. Best of luck, Peter. - Original Message - From: "COYOTEHILLFARM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Perfect Orchard ?? > I appreciate this comments, > > We are here permanently, Hardpan is very common in the Eastern US, in NH > winery's are Uncommon. > > Gypsum has been suggested in the past but only a hand full of it in for each > grape planting. > > Hardpan in the NH is a sand like product with a bunch of stones large to > small, it act much like quicksand when water soaked, water have a hard time > penetrate it and that's way I need to drain my fields as grapes do not like > wet feet's. > We do not have any clay, as far as what I have seen. > > On top of the Hard pan we have 1 to 2 feet's of good top soil Some time more > some time less pending on location and past cow manure deposit. > > We have consider ripping the hardpan whit a 2-3 foot "Hardpan buster" type > of equipment but have fund that it is harder to do a good job of that type > of equipment, a 3x3 dug ditch seems more functional. ( But more costly) and > then the gypsum can do it's job !? > > I plan to cover the rows with wood chips, (and add goat and sheep manure)as > a soil help and to prevent grass and competition. (I like to see chickens > and Guinea fouls in the fields) > > Please describe the full BD cycle. > > Thanks > Per Garp/NH > >
