Re: [Newbies] The bouncing sound
And here's a very different, and perhaps nicer, one-line solution. inline: obeyJoystick.jpg Cheers, -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Scott Wallace wrote: Bounce is particularly unsuited to this example, because it reverses the direction the paddle is heading and hence reverses the motion brought about by forward commands. This makes it hard to retain an intuitive relationship between the joystick and the motion of the paddle. FWIW here's a script giving good, or at least intuitive, joystick/ paddle action: positionPaddle.jpg Cheers, -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Herbert König wrote: Hi Mark, p That's an interesting observation. Did you, perchance, play with it to p see what a more intuitive (for you) solution would look like? I had the thanks for asking, that made me try :-)) p All suggestions welcome ... Nearly everything i know about Etoys is from the Squeak video DVD. So I opened the viewer of the paddle and it has a tile PongPaddleA's heading which jumps between 0 and 180 when bouncing. So the simple solution would be to add a PongPaddleA's heading = 0 to the script. I thought I'd just have to drop the tile onto the script. But this doesn't work, the script doesn't accept the tile. This reminded me of several posts on squeak dev that 3.9 is not good for etoys. So I guess the Thing to do is follow Scott's advice and use a Squeakland image. Dropping the Project onto a 3.8 image doesn't work, this is also known. So I redid it from Ground up in my 3.8 image using an arrow as the pong paddle (guess why). It made the sound but didn't turn on bounce. There I learned that one has to drag a tile by the arrow to get it into a script. Then I tried this in 3.9 and in 3.9 the arrow also didn't turn and the the trick with fixing the heading of the sketch also worked. So I proved my accusations on 3.9 unfounded, Sorry 3.9 :-)) Now drop the one who did (against better knowledge) something the first time and let the project leader speak up. What I did with fixing the heading of the paddle in the script was an ugly hack. The price to pay is more uglyness if we ever want to use Paddle turn by Joysticks leftRigt by having to simulate differential geometry by absolute geometry. So the way to go is find out what makes the Sketch (the inspector shows the paddle is a SketchMorph) misbehave on bounce. Maybe there is a reason and then you should use a wide line as your paddle. Finally: - Attached is my changed 3.9 Project. -- Not to the list but private mail - Maybe this is off topic here, at least you might get better advice on the squeakland mailing list (where I'm not subscribed). - I'd be curious and willing to comment on further development of the project, maybe by private mail unless somebody here also wants to follow this. Cheers Herbertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] The bouncing sound
Hi Herbert, Thanks for all trying and suggesting it's much appreciated - and provides a lot of context for the classroom. I'm take a look at the project file you sent It's great to know that so much constructive feedback is available through the list. Ab, Mar, Herbert König wrote: Hi Mark, p That's an interesting observation. Did you, perchance, play with it to p see what a more intuitive (for you) solution would look like? I had the thanks for asking, that made me try :-)) p All suggestions welcome ... Nearly everything i know about Etoys is from the Squeak video DVD. So I opened the viewer of the paddle and it has a tile PongPaddleA's heading which jumps between 0 and 180 when bouncing. So the simple solution would be to add a PongPaddleA's heading = 0 to the script. I thought I'd just have to drop the tile onto the script. But this doesn't work, the script doesn't accept the tile. This reminded me of several posts on squeak dev that 3.9 is not good for etoys. So I guess the Thing to do is follow Scott's advice and use a Squeakland image. Dropping the Project onto a 3.8 image doesn't work, this is also known. So I redid it from Ground up in my 3.8 image using an arrow as the pong paddle (guess why). It made the sound but didn't turn on bounce. There I learned that one has to drag a tile by the arrow to get it into a script. Then I tried this in 3.9 and in 3.9 the arrow also didn't turn and the the trick with fixing the heading of the sketch also worked. So I proved my accusations on 3.9 unfounded, Sorry 3.9 :-)) Now drop the one who did (against better knowledge) something the first time and let the project leader speak up. What I did with fixing the heading of the paddle in the script was an ugly hack. The price to pay is more uglyness if we ever want to use Paddle turn by Joysticks leftRigt by having to simulate differential geometry by absolute geometry. So the way to go is find out what makes the Sketch (the inspector shows the paddle is a SketchMorph) misbehave on bounce. Maybe there is a reason and then you should use a wide line as your paddle. Finally: - Attached is my changed 3.9 Project. -- Not to the list but private mail - Maybe this is off topic here, at least you might get better advice on the squeakland mailing list (where I'm not subscribed). - I'd be curious and willing to comment on further development of the project, maybe by private mail unless somebody here also wants to follow this. Cheers Herbertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners -- Mark Polishook, D.M.A. Technology Coordinator Morehead Hall, Rm 132 Center for Academic Advising and Adult Learning Montclair State University Montclair, NJ 07043 (973)-655-7114 http://www.montclair.edu/AcademicAdvising/html [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Re: [Newbies] The bouncing sound
Of course it's the fence that allows this second solution to work. If your student didn't know about the fence, I suppose he/she felt an urge to use bounce in an attempt to contend with the situation at the boundary, and that led to the complications we've seen. This is probably a case where trying things out very early in the authoring process would have been helpful. Trying out the simple forward script would have revealed that it already worked, with the only task remaining being to experiment with different values for the scaling factor to get the best feel, and hence the siren song of bounce might have been avoided. Cheers -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 4:56 PM, polishookm wrote: Scott, thanks very much for both solutions (and that great explanation about the fence). The solution you've proposed here is pretty much what the student began with. Except his scaling factor was slightly higher. I'll see if I can post the project once it's finished. Ab, Mark Scott Wallace wrote: And here's a very different, and perhaps nicer, one-line solution. Cheers, -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Scott Wallace wrote: Bounce is particularly unsuited to this example, because it reverses the direction the paddle is heading and hence reverses the motion brought about by forward commands. This makes it hard to retain an intuitive relationship between the joystick and the motion of the paddle. FWIW here's a script giving good, or at least intuitive, joystick/ paddle action: positionPaddle.jpg Cheers, -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Herbert König wrote: Hi Mark, p That's an interesting observation. Did you, perchance, play with it to p see what a more intuitive (for you) solution would look like? I had the thanks for asking, that made me try :-)) p All suggestions welcome ... Nearly everything i know about Etoys is from the Squeak video DVD. So I opened the viewer of the paddle and it has a tile PongPaddleA's heading which jumps between 0 and 180 when bouncing. So the simple solution would be to add a PongPaddleA's heading = 0 to the script. I thought I'd just have to drop the tile onto the script. But this doesn't work, the script doesn't accept the tile. This reminded me of several posts on squeak dev that 3.9 is not good for etoys. So I guess the Thing to do is follow Scott's advice and use a Squeakland image. Dropping the Project onto a 3.8 image doesn't work, this is also known. So I redid it from Ground up in my 3.8 image using an arrow as the pong paddle (guess why). It made the sound but didn't turn on bounce. There I learned that one has to drag a tile by the arrow to get it into a script. Then I tried this in 3.9 and in 3.9 the arrow also didn't turn and the the trick with fixing the heading of the sketch also worked. So I proved my accusations on 3.9 unfounded, Sorry 3.9 :-)) Now drop the one who did (against better knowledge) something the first time and let the project leader speak up. What I did with fixing the heading of the paddle in the script was an ugly hack. The price to pay is more uglyness if we ever want to use Paddle turn by Joysticks leftRigt by having to simulate differential geometry by absolute geometry. So the way to go is find out what makes the Sketch (the inspector shows the paddle is a SketchMorph) misbehave on bounce. Maybe there is a reason and then you should use a wide line as your paddle. Finally: - Attached is my changed 3.9 Project. -- Not to the list but private mail - Maybe this is off topic here, at least you might get better advice on the squeakland mailing list (where I'm not subscribed). - I'd be curious and willing to comment on further development of the project, maybe by private mail unless somebody here also wants to follow this. Cheers Herbertmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners -- Mark Polishook, D.M.A. Technology Coordinator Morehead Hall, Rm 132 Center for Academic Advising and Adult Learning Montclair State University Montclair, NJ 07043 (973)-655-7114 http://www.montclair.edu/AcademicAdvising/html [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org
Re: [Newbies] The bouncing sound
Hi Scott, Scott Wallace wrote: Of course it's the fence that allows this second solution to work. If your student didn't know about the fence, I suppose he/she felt an urge to use bounce in an attempt to contend with the situation at the boundary, and that led to the complications we've seen. This basically describe the situation. Is there a place somewhere where the fence is described (other than an email thread)? I know (now) that the balloon pops up from the playfield option in the World menu This is probably a case where trying things out very early in the authoring process would have been helpful. Trying out the simple forward script would have revealed that it already worked, with the only task remaining being to experiment with different values for the scaling factor to get the best feel, and hence the siren song of bounce might have been avoided. I agree with you on this. But at the same time, in the early process of working with Squeak/E-toys - or really almost any development environment, there are significant forces other than logical progression/procedure that come into play. Having said that, what turned out to be helpful in class was discussion that ensued about the fence issue. For example: (1) how quickly an explanation for the fence was available on the list, (2) how flexible features in a development environment are very different from fixed menu choices in an application (3) how close to the surface the solution actually was, eg, a menu choice in playfield, (4) soon to surface shortly - the difference between Squeak and Squeakland, (5), and discussion of the tradeoffs that features sometimes bring. One more question that seems to have come up. The student found today that saving the project in 3.9 (as a PR) doesn't seem to be reliable. At least that's the report I have. The symptom specifically, is some of the tiles that trigger on and off scripts don't seem to work after being saved into a PR file (and then being reloaded). I have no idea at the moment is this is the inexperience of someone new to Squeak or if its something else. From the students' experience, saving the project to a PR file is disabling some scripts whereas saving it in an image seems to be just fine. I'm going to follow up on this and see what I can learn Ab, Mark Cheers -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 4:56 PM, polishookm wrote: Scott, thanks very much for both solutions (and that great explanation about the fence). The solution you've proposed here is pretty much what the student began with. Except his scaling factor was slightly higher. I'll see if I can post the project once it's finished. Ab, Mark Scott Wallace wrote: And here's a very different, and perhaps nicer, one-line solution. Cheers, -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Scott Wallace wrote: Bounce is particularly unsuited to this example, because it reverses the direction the paddle is heading and hence reverses the motion brought about by forward commands. This makes it hard to retain an intuitive relationship between the joystick and the motion of the paddle. FWIW here's a script giving good, or at least intuitive, joystick/paddle action: positionPaddle.jpg Cheers, -- Scott On Feb 23, 2008, at 5:30 AM, Herbert König wrote: Hi Mark, p That's an interesting observation. Did you, perchance, play with it to p see what a more intuitive (for you) solution would look like? I had the thanks for asking, that made me try :-)) p All suggestions welcome ... Nearly everything i know about Etoys is from the Squeak video DVD. So I opened the viewer of the paddle and it has a tile PongPaddleA's heading which jumps between 0 and 180 when bouncing. So the simple solution would be to add a PongPaddleA's heading = 0 to the script. I thought I'd just have to drop the tile onto the script. But this doesn't work, the script doesn't accept the tile. This reminded me of several posts on squeak dev that 3.9 is not good for etoys. So I guess the Thing to do is follow Scott's advice and use a Squeakland image. Dropping the Project onto a 3.8 image doesn't work, this is also known. So I redid it from Ground up in my 3.8 image using an arrow as the pong paddle (guess why). It made the sound but didn't turn on bounce. There I learned that one has to drag a tile by the arrow to get it into a script. Then I tried this in 3.9 and in 3.9 the arrow also didn't turn and the the trick with fixing the heading of the sketch also worked. So I proved my accusations on 3.9 unfounded, Sorry 3.9 :-)) Now drop the one who did (against better knowledge) something the first time and let the project leader speak up. What I did with fixing the heading of the paddle in the script was an ugly hack. The price to pay is more uglyness if we ever want to use Paddle turn by Joysticks leftRigt by having to
[Newbies] Re: Old local changes on a new image
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:40:20 +0100, Juan José Evangelista wrote: Hello I'm working on an app hosted in monticello. I made a heavy work on my classes in an image during the last three months. Some days ago, I need to create a new image and load my code from monticello. Everything goes ok, but I lose all my local version history. When I click on versions, I only see changes from the creation of the new image. I want to know if there are some way to incorporate all my changes made to the old image to the new one. @Keith This looks like a job for Installer :) Could you post a script on how to achieve that with Installer from an MC repository, TIA. Thanks in advance, and I hope you can understand my english. --- Para estar bien, primero hay que aprender a estar. ___ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
