Drug question
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Bathing Berners
I envy you people that can bathe your berners as I have not been able to accomplish this task. The first time I tried, Indy was about 3 months old. As I had never had problems with my other dogs, I never gave a thought to the fact that this would scare him to death. He ran, then cowered, than acted like he was very scared of me. This was done outside on a warm day. Forget about the bathroom as mine is very small and I'd never get him into the tub. I solved the problem by taking him to a groomer. Once we get him into the shop (usually takes about 3 of us - pushing and pulling all 130# of him) he is very good - at least the groomer says so. Of course when we go to the beach, he runs and plays in the water - swims too if he goes in deep enough. He enjoys that. Rocky doesn't like water at all - not the beach, not being rinsed off if he gets dirty so I take him to the groomers too. It's just the easy way out for me. Gayle in Cardiff By the Sea, CA
Re: bathing
I am behind on my email thanks to a Nor'easter power surge that killed my modem and network cardBUT, on the subject of bathing. Halley received what I think is the ultimate Christmas gift from one of my "daughters". Not just for bathing, but for the interminable wet, drizzly, foggy, torential down pour, Nor'easter winter weather on Cape Cod. Her own, monogrammed L.L.Bean bath towel!!! It's Berner sized, and with her name on it, so no human can claim it for their own and complain about the residual Berner fur. No more raggedy old beach towels for Halley, she's drying in style!!! Janice Parky and Halley North Truro, MA
Post by Sherri re: breeding
Sorry to bother the list with this.. Sherri, There is a post on a message board I read (about scrapbooking) that is asking for information about using a dog at stud (the woman has a male Lab and has been approached by someone with a female). It is clear that she doesn't know a thing about breeding, and I would love to send her the post you recently wrote about deciding to breed your male. It was a great post, with lots of information that would help her see why she shouldn't breed. If you're OK with me forwarding it to someone else, please send me the post at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! Julia Lily & Max Astoria, OR
RE: bathing--more tips
There's NO WAY you can not have a helper! Our trick is that one of us gets into underwear or swimsuit and gets into the tub w/ the dog, so he can scrub down and soap up and wash down more easily with leverage. The other person is at the front end, feeding extra tasty dog food one kibble at a time. Keep them distracted, I say!! Boy do they hate the bathing part but LOVE the drying off part. They practically skid around the tile as we towel them off! David A. Steinberg Assistant Business Editor/Copy Desk Chief Stylebook Editor San Francisco Chronicle 415-777-7004 -Original Message- From: Laurie Montoya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 9:20 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: bathing--more tips * You have a HELPER Cheater ... Laurie Montoya (bath time is a lonely place) S. Central PA *** >And a helper is nice. I would stay in the tub doing the dogs assembly line >style, then Paul would towel them dry. They loved his towelling techniques, >the butt-rub, the under-the-belly-buff and under-the-chest-buff, he's an >expert toweller! > >Pat Long (& Luther) >Berwyn PA > > > > > > >_ >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 3 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&; DI=7474&SU= >http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_addphotos_ 3mf > >
Re: TV Berner sighting
If I may chime in...we saw a Berner on the Iron Chef! For those of you who watch the show, the theme ingredient was quail and there was an intro piece where the Berner was out hunting quail with a pack of labs. I'm pretty new to the breed and I didn't think that Berners were good bird dogs, but it was hard to mistake that happy face! I guess that a Berner is good at whatever they put their nose to! Sue Burnham Santa Fe, NM
Rimadyl/Picturew
on 1/2/03 1:29 PM, Sharon Greenberg at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Please post some pictures. I do love to see puppy pictures, but we cannot have attachments on the list. If someone wants to share pictures, they should put them on a website and share the link. Thanks and Happy New Year Sylvia Katvala with Neala Tucson, AZ
Re: Rimadyl
Hi Mark, We, too, had a positive experience with lameness using Rimadyl for my elderly arthritic Samoyed; however, she did die from a type of spontaneous anemia which may or may not have been related to this drug. This was prior to owning my first Berner. Now I am hooked on this breed & having lost Dakota (5) in October from histio, I happily now have a new Berner pup who is the light of my life at the moment, appropriately named Luna, from Mary-Ann Bowman in Utah whom I have found to be incredibly knowledgeable & supportive : ). Congratulations on your (Berner?) litter of 6. I'm sure they are very cute! Please post some pictures. Healthy & Happy New Year to All, Sharon Greenberg & Luna (St. Louis, MO)
Re: Partially Torn ACL
My Mercedes had surgery at 1 1/2 using fascia from her thigh to form a new ligament in the knee. This didn't hold so she had a Tibial Plateau Leveling Osteotomy (TPLO). Recovered from that fully and the other knee went; another TPLO. She's 6 1/2 years old now and just as sound as can be. However she spooks very easily and I suspect it is related to the time she spent as an inpatient at the vet's as well as all of the time she spent confined during her recoveries. Her primary fears are the automatic ice maker in the freezer (which is near where we had her daytime ex-pen), card tables and ironing boards (I'm guessing that they resemble crates and pens as they fold up and unfold), and any room in which the door is closed. Any sudden noise sends her three feet into the air and then out of the room and far away. Her story and pictures are on Laurie Bryce's TPLO site: http://www.lauriebryce.com/tplo/contact.html Susan Kowitz, Mercedes, and Bentley Sequim, WA >>>I would be interested in hearing from others that have dealt with a partially torn ACL.how many have had to have surgery?<<<
Sadie 7/15/92-1/2/03
It is with great sadness I bid my 11 ½ year old Berner girl, Sadie, aka International / Mexican / American Champion Candos Third Times A Charm, goodbye this morning. Never have I known a sweeter, more willing dog in my life. Sadie did ANYTHING I asked of her including training herself to show from / beside my wheelchair. Judges & spectators used to marvel at how well she showed & stacked & always asked how long it took me to train her to do that. I never trained her. It was natural. She WANTED to do it for me. She loved to show. Daughter of the amazing AM / CAN / MEX / UCI / FCI / INT. CH. Dallybeck's Echo Jackson CD, NDD, CGC, HCC, Sadie had the same elegance & grace. She had the smoothest movement I ever saw. I have a picture of Jack & Sadie together at a show where Jackson was BOB & Sadie was BOS .. I love that picture .. Sadie went down fast. She had been healthy as a horse until 3 days ago. We have had horrendous winter storms & the Vet felt that much snow had aggravated her arthritis - she was a true outside / snow dog. Her rear end quit working. We gave her a shot yesterday to reduce spinal swelling & see if we could relieve the pressure on her rear. Temporarily it helped. Overnight it got worse. Thank God for compassionate Vets. He was here at 8:30 this morning to see if there was progress. I didnt have to call him in. There was nothing more we could do. Her rear was now buckling even with support. We let her go peacefully, talking to her & petting her as she drifted off to sleep. My voice was the last thing she heard & she wagged her tail as I spoke her name & called her my pet name Susie Q .. Ill never be able to replace Sadie. She was one of a kind. Sadie brought me many good friends through dog shows & puppy homes. Her kids & grandkids still visit when they can. Sadie Im gonna miss you like crazy .. Candy Roper .. Bailey, the Cavalier, & her 2 pups www.callatg.com/~cando The lifespan of a dog is like the twinkle of a star in the universe. The influence of a canine companion on one's soul is forever.
RE: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament!
Find a vet/surgeon who does a lot of these and is good at it. Use the same criteria you would use for yourself, if you were searching for an othopedic surgeon. We opted for the filament surgery and you would be hard pressed to tell any difference now between the surgically treated leg and the normal leg. We followed the surgeon's advice on rest and rehab scrupulously. It took about 3 months of rehab for her to build up the muscle which had seriously atrophied and another couple of months before you could not tell the difference in gait. We did not have water close by (the ideal is to walk through shallow water as it offers some resistance and also is low impact), but walked daily, incrementing the distance slowly eventually up to 4 miles a day. We might have easily been labeled "anal" about the rehab program, but our meticulousness paid off. We did not use Rimydal but instead used another drug with similar properties. According to our vet, our girl was "sensitive" when it came to pain (I might have been less diplomatic than the surgeon and called it "melodramatic"). In any event, dogs differ on pain tolerance as do people. We ended up going with a heavy duty neck patch to manage pain the first 3 days. It was expensive and so I don't advise it for all cases. All in all, we are very happy with the outcome -- although I think I might look around to borrow a sling for taking her out to pee! The towel trick was pretty cumbersome or maybe I was just inept. Nancy Melone and Mt Tops Hannah Anna, CD, TDI, CGC
Re: 1st time doggie owner - (response Part 2 long)
In a message dated 1/1/2003 6:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > 1. Fortunately we got her from the breeder already paper-trained. There > are newspapers placed on the floors in strategic spots, and she was pretty > good for the first three weeks (we got her almost a month ago) but the last > week or so she's been ignoring the paper and going wherever she wants. > We've been trying to catch her doing it but these little guys are a bit too > fast for us. How do we correct this? If you're going to paper train, cover her entire area with papers so he has no choice but to go on them. Then remove the papers from one small area. Slowly expand that uncovered area until it's down to what you want. Personally, unless there's absolutely no alternative (in which case I'd suggest not getting a puppy until circumstances change) I don't favor paper training. It seems to me counterproductive to first teach the puppy to relieve herself in the house and then say no, I don't want you to go in the house, I now want you to hold it and go outside. Seems awfully confusing for a pup... > 2. I'm sure this is a general puppy problem, but when she first sees us in > the morning she gets so excited she pees. I'm guessing this is simply > because she's got a fairly small tank to begin with. This morning however > it posed a problem as the naughty girl got up on the couch. Pee on the > floor is one thing to deal with... She hasn't yet learned anything about where to pee, where not to pee, nor about using her muscles to hold her pee. Add in the pee stimuli of waking and excitement and you can bet money on a pee where ever she is at that point. In addition to the previous about anticipating her needs, etc... it's a good idea to make your greetings low key and matter of fact. That will help to keep down her excitement and help prevent the habit of greeting by peeing from forming. > 3. Boy, does this dog howl. Is this something she'll grow out of? I know > the breed is most happy with human presence but we obviously can't be there > for her 24/7 Howling is a sign of stress. Certainly, neither we nor our dogs can go through life without stress so I believe in slowly building the dog's tolerance to stressful situations. Being alone and apart from her littermates, her breeder, and every smell she's known her whole life if VERY stressful for a baby puppy. I try to be considerate of that and reassure them that there's nothing to fear, without reinforcing the fear by tacitly acknowleding it with 'it's ok, it's ok' baby talk. If my pup wakes up inthe night and wails, I'll go very close to the crate...maybe put my fingers through the grid... and talk to the pup...letting her know by my calm and steady voice that she's not alone and there's nothing to fear. > 4. And about leaving her alone at night - does this breed get unhappy about > staying out at night? As you said, Bernese have a strong need to be with their people. We each work out our own way of meeting that need. One caveat about leaving a Berner outside... They are extremely heat intolerant. I know people in areas of high heat and humidity who own Bernese successfully...BUT, they do what's necessary to keep them comfortable on a day in, day out, basis. It requires a fair amount of management to accomplish. I also know of several berners lost to heat or humidity in areas not known for it. It can happen very quickly. Well, I'm afraid I've probably been more general than specific, but I've found that the general knowledge helps me a great deal in structuring my daily life and that of my dogs in a mutually fulfilling way. Please feel free to continue a dialogue with specific questions, the berner-l has lots of experience to offer. ~ Sherri Venditti
Re: 1st time doggie owner - (response Part 1 long)
In a message dated 1/1/2003 6:13:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Just got us a lovely new Berner, Sasha, who's three months old. As neither > my wife nor I are experienced with owning a dog, we're having a few problems > which I'm sure some of you (all of you?) have gone through. Hi Ari, Since this is your first dog, I'll start with some basics and apologize up front if this seems ridiculously obvious. These are things I learned over time but never thought about when raising my first dog. Dogs are instinctively social animals. They're natural way of living is in a pack comprised of several individuals of varying ages and social status. Add to that species wide trait the fact that Bernese were, and still are by many, selectively bred to be a working *partner* for their owner and you will start to get a sense of how important social context and community are to dogs in general and Bernese in particular. Picturing the scenario you've described from the pup's point of view...she's to be outside alone all day, then to sleep alone all night. Where is the opportunity to play? To work? To function as an integral part of a social group? To learn the things she needs to know to be a welcome member of the family and community? IOW...how will the needs hardwired into every cell of her body and brain be fulfilled? If you envision a dog's life lacking the full measure of these components, you're looking at the direct path to an unhappy (and potentially dangerous) dog and a disappointed, and likely distraught, owner. There are many, many, ways of filling a dog's social needs Quality time with family, training, grooming, exercise, play groups or dog parks, a mid-day walk and play session if you can come home at lunch...or a visiting professional or dog-loving neighbor if you can't, sleeping in the same room as you at night, are a few of the things people do in working, single dog, households. The second major component to think about is that Sascha is a baby. She's very much like a human child in terms of having to learn skills (such as house training) from scratch. She's like a toddler in being physically able to get into a lot of trouble in a heartbeat. Like any child, she needs consistent guidance to teach her right from wrong, what's expected of her, what she can do to please you, which items (toys) are hers to play with and which items (hands, rugs, cabinets, shoes, etc) are yours and to be left alone, what's edible and what's not, and a whole array of manners necessary for interacting safely with people and other dogs. The fact that she's a baby...developmentally rather similar to a 2-3 year old toddler... also means that many parts of her body aren't fully developed yet. One of those parts is the bladder and the associated muscles. At 3 months, I figure my puppy could probably go about 3-4 hours during the day without a potty break. Usually they'll go a bit longer at night but I'd still expect to be getting up once or twice a night to let her outside. Beyond the small size of the bladder, puppies don't have the muscle control to 'hold it' against much of a stimulus. A puppy will have to relieve herself as soon as she wakes up, shortly after eating, after a few minutes of exercise or play, and when excited. Housetraining is a matter of helping your puppy to understand: 1) That outside is the place to relieve herself. 2) How to use her muscles to "hold it" until she gets outside. 3) How to let you know that she has to go outside. No simple matter for a 3 month old brain and body...so patience is an important part of the process. The other important part of the process is repetition. Every time a puppy relieves themself in the house, they're not learning to go outside. Regardless of your reaction, they pretty much learn that it's OK to go when ever and where ever the need arises. So, a core element of housetraining is to do everything you can to prevent 'accidents' from happening. Anticipate when your puppy will have to relieve herself and take her outside BEFORE she does it. When she does go outside, praise and perhaps give her a tidbit as a reward...both will help her to undersstand that going outside is a 'good thing'. Another part of the whole is watching her very closely for the subtle signals she sends to let you know she has to go outsiderespond to them immediately and reward the good behavior. I use a crate as a tool for helping the puppy and I communicate with each other about how the process goes. Most pups will instinctively not relieve themselves in the small area they sleep in. Consequently, when a pup wakes up in a crate and has to urinate, they'll typically get restless, bark, or yelp to let you know they want *out*. I immediately let the pup out, scooping her into my arms, and carry her outside to the potty area. When I put her down, she pees, I praise and rew
Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin
I have a seven-month-old puppy who has been limping off and on for three months. After x-rays, physical exam, and ultimately a CT scan, she has been diagnosed as having mild elbow dysplasia (didn't show up on x-rays) with some corresponding cartilage changes. The surgeon who gave me the diagnosis told me that she was not a candidate for surgery but that she should have glucosamine/chondroitin supplementation for the rest of her life, that she will experience arthritic changes, that her weight should be kept down, that she should receive moderate exercise, etc. All fine, but he was very vague regarding the supplementation. Can anyone share a good regimen for supplementing with glucosamine/chrondroitin in cases where arthritis is to become a problem as the dog's age advances? I am feeding Wellness, which already contains these supplements, but what is a realistic dosage for a puppy of this age (weighing approximately 65 pounds) when your ultimate goal is to ward off as much future arthritis as you can? Thanks for any advice you can share. Anne with Maddie and Titan Cranford, NJ
re: Rimadyl
Has anyone used Rimadyl successfully on a dog that doesn't tolerate it well? I tried Rimadyl a couple of years ago to help my old girl with bad knees. It was very effective but bloodwork after the first 2 weeks or the standard daily dosage showed increased liver enzymes. I never tried backing down to intermittent or lower dosing, just switched to Etogesic which has never been as effective but she tolerates well. Now she's starting to have trouble getting her back end up and moving in a few inches of snow and she's keeping her hips/stifles/hocks much straighter, legs pulled forward...so clearly her discomfort is increasing. I'm at the point of considering Rimadyl at a low dosage, with supplements added in hopes of ameliorating the liver and potential kidney damaging side affects. Has anyone done this successfully? -Sherri V. P.S.- She's been on Cosequin DS since cruciate surgery in 1996, a 100% BARF diet with MSM added, and acupuncture every 2 weeks for several years.
Happy Birthday Stevie!!
Well Stevie has now officially turned the big ONE!! Stevie was born on January 1, 2002. He was a bit under the weather yesterday (had several bouts of diarrhea and just not all entirely well) I had given him a new bone on New Years Eve and that may have done it, perhaps not enough fat trimmed off!! He was much more himself and ate normally last evening. It is hard to believe that I have only had him for 10 months it seems like he has always been part of my life. He is my first Berner and the absolute love of my life!! Things in my life have taken many twists and turns this year, along with the dissolving of a 23 year marriage and who has stuck by me through thick and thin, with unconditional Love? My Stevie, of course! One thing I have learned from becoming a member of this list, is to hug those Berners tight and love them all you can (like there was ever a question) as one never knows what is around the corner. Hoping that everyone and every Berner has a safe and fulfilling New Year!! Best Wishes!! Big Berner hugs from Karen and Stevie NB,Canada --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.350 / Virus Database: 196 - Release Date: 17/04/2002
RE: Rimadyl
Rose Tierney wrote: Hi Martha, I would not be giving aspirin with Rimadyl. Aspirin is known for causing digestive upsets and should not be used for long term. If used it should be buffered. Sorry if that was confusing, we are not giving both at the same time. Molly was taking Ecotrin (which is buffered) pre-surgery for arthritis and then briefly after her pain meds were finished, but we stopped it as soon as she started the Rimadyl. Thanks again to everyone who wrote with help and advice! Martha Hoverson and Molly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Portland, Maine _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Happy Birthday Buck
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RE: partial torn ACL
Hi, It is prudent to make sure the stifle is xrayed when ACL problems are suspected. A friend's Rottie was operated on for ACL and was slow to heal, she took her to a specialist where the originating problem was diagnosed. She had osteosarcoma. The original vet had not xrayed prior to surgery which would have highlighted the malignancy. Unfortunately some ACL weaknesses occur due to bone cancers. Rose Tierney
RE: berners life expectancy: breeding versus spayed
Hi Terry, Spaying helps to reduce the incidence of breast cancer and eliminate the risk of uterine and ovarian cancer. It does not prevent many other types of cancers. The main scourges of the Berner, malignant histiocytosis and mast cell will be seen in the spayed/neutered pet as well as the intact. Spaying means no PMS (oh yes bitches get this too!), no mess, no unwanted romantic encounters (and she will be just as keen to find herself a mate) and most importantly no Pyometra (a potentially deadly infection) which is fairly common in Bernese. It is hard to assess the show potential of a six month old puppy, you need to consult with her breeder as to her promise. Showing is expensive and breeding even more so and fraught with responsibilities. You might like to show for fun and spay her afterwards and then work towards other official titles. Most breeders spay their bitches as soon as they are retired.. Rose Tierney
RE: raw meat bones question
Hi Sherri, I should add that there is a possibility of a dog torsioning the stomach if allowed to drink a large volume of cold water especially when overheated. I always provide tepid water for my dogs to drink and monitor that they do not drink obsessively after exertion which includes bone chewing. Rose
RE: Rimadyl
Hi Martha, I would not be giving aspirin with Rimadyl. Aspirin is known for causing digestive upsets and should not be used for long term. If used it should be buffered. Rose
Re: BERNER-L digest
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Addison's (ws: Re: partial torn ACL)
Just an FYI for anyone dealing with Addison's... There's an excellent support group email list, actually for all auto-immune diseases but many of the list members own Addisonian beardies. Contact the list owner FMI: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sherri V.
Re: Teeth question
In a message dated 1/1/2003 7:12:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > It seems like my berner girl has cavities, little brown holes, in her teeth. Most likely this is tooth wear as cavaties are very uncommon in dogs. The enamel layer on dogs teeth is pretty thin and takes a lot of abuse so it's not unusual for the dentin underneath to show...that's the brownish area you see. I wouldn't worry about it unless your dog is showing any sign of discomfort or you see swelling along the jaw or under the eye. The dental devil you DO want to avoid is plague and tarter. Gingiveitis is just as bad for dogs as it is for people, it can lead to problems ranging from bad breathe to infection of the heart and kidneys. -Sherri Venditti
Re: partial torn ACL
In a message dated 1/1/2003 5:21:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I would be interested in hearing from others that have dealt with a > partially torn ACL.how many have had to have surgery? My bitch did...she was 4-1/2 yrs old at the time. She never went 3-legged, just showed partial lameness. Hip xrays done at the time were OFA Good so with no diagnosis, we rested her for 6 weeks. No help, she was still favoring one hind leg. Saw a specialist, ran diagnostics...still nothing conclusive, no lateral drawer movement (the torn cruciate 'signature') even under anesthesia. Rested her another month. No change. Specialists take was that if it's a large dog and the hips are good...it's the knee, go in and find out. We did, he found a partially torn ligament and a LOT of inflamed tissue...was surprised she hadn't been showing more severe pain. This was before the TPLO existed, so it was the traditional surgery. The recovery was long and slowclose to a year before she was really moving normally. She did well for years and the other knee didn't gobut now in old age, well... she could use knee replacement surgery for both if it existed. -Sherri Venditti
Re: Berner on "Lizzie McGuire"
That is so funnyI am sitting here, at 5:am, answering my e-mails. I have on the TV, but have not turned it from the Disney channel, which the children were watching last night...I hear something about a Bernese Mountain Dog and "I am never watching Westminster again". I turn around to see a Bernese Mountain Dog on the screen! I quickly jumped up to see what show it was and it was Lizzie McGuire, it is a 2002 episode entitled "Mom's Best Friend". I was just going to e-mail the list to see if anyone knew anything about it! Joanne Gerow - Original Message - From: "Martha Hoverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: Berner on "Lizzie McGuire" > > This information comes from my daughter, Lucy, age 7: > On "Lizzie McGuire" her father was yelling at the TV and saying that a > Bernese Mountain Dog should have won something on a dog show, and I saw a > picture of the Bernese Mountain Dog. And I thought it was cute. > > "Lizzie McGuire" is a series on the Disney Channel. Lucy was thrilled to > see a Berner making an appearance, even on a TV within the TV! > > > Martha Hoverson and Molly (who feels much better today) and Lucy, too! > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Portland, Maine > > > > > _ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >
