Rimadyl/Picturew
on 1/2/03 1:29 PM, Sharon Greenberg at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Please post some pictures. I do love to see puppy pictures, but we cannot have attachments on the list. If someone wants to share pictures, they should put them on a website and share the link. Thanks and Happy New Year Sylvia Katvala with Neala Tucson, AZ
Re: Rimadyl
Hi Mark, We, too, had a positive experience with lameness using Rimadyl for my elderly arthritic Samoyed; however, she did die from a type of spontaneous anemia which may or may not have been related to this drug. This was prior to owning my first Berner. Now I am hooked on this breed & having lost Dakota (5) in October from histio, I happily now have a new Berner pup who is the light of my life at the moment, appropriately named Luna, from Mary-Ann Bowman in Utah whom I have found to be incredibly knowledgeable & supportive : ). Congratulations on your (Berner?) litter of 6. I'm sure they are very cute! Please post some pictures. Healthy & Happy New Year to All, Sharon Greenberg & Luna (St. Louis, MO)
re: Rimadyl
Has anyone used Rimadyl successfully on a dog that doesn't tolerate it well? I tried Rimadyl a couple of years ago to help my old girl with bad knees. It was very effective but bloodwork after the first 2 weeks or the standard daily dosage showed increased liver enzymes. I never tried backing down to intermittent or lower dosing, just switched to Etogesic which has never been as effective but she tolerates well. Now she's starting to have trouble getting her back end up and moving in a few inches of snow and she's keeping her hips/stifles/hocks much straighter, legs pulled forward...so clearly her discomfort is increasing. I'm at the point of considering Rimadyl at a low dosage, with supplements added in hopes of ameliorating the liver and potential kidney damaging side affects. Has anyone done this successfully? -Sherri V. P.S.- She's been on Cosequin DS since cruciate surgery in 1996, a 100% BARF diet with MSM added, and acupuncture every 2 weeks for several years.
RE: Rimadyl
Rose Tierney wrote: Hi Martha, I would not be giving aspirin with Rimadyl. Aspirin is known for causing digestive upsets and should not be used for long term. If used it should be buffered. Sorry if that was confusing, we are not giving both at the same time. Molly was taking Ecotrin (which is buffered) pre-surgery for arthritis and then briefly after her pain meds were finished, but we stopped it as soon as she started the Rimadyl. Thanks again to everyone who wrote with help and advice! Martha Hoverson and Molly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Portland, Maine _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
RE: Rimadyl
Hi Martha, I would not be giving aspirin with Rimadyl. Aspirin is known for causing digestive upsets and should not be used for long term. If used it should be buffered. Rose
Rimadyl
Happy New Year. There does seem to be quite a difference in opinion regarding the use of this drug. I have two Bernese Mountain Dogs. I hate the use of most medications. However following surgery each of my dogs were on rimadyl for a short period of time - no longer than 6 days and I noticed no ill effects. I made the choice of going with it for their comfort level. It was a judgment call based on pain vs. risk. Luckily all turned out well. Mark Mohapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lake Geneva, WI Chloe age 5 1/2 Mora age 4 ( with 6 beautiful three week old pups.)
RE: Rimadyl
Something things that are important to remember; 1. all drugs have side effects in some patients. Aspirin can cause gastric bleeding, but it is still one of the most effective and important pain relievers. Ever. It is also one of the few things for which we have no antidote if someone overdoses on it. No drug is entirely safe to all. 2. things occur after other things happen. But if I put my jacket on and then it rains, the simple act of putting my jacket on did not necessarily cause it to rain. I gave my Hannibal water, and the next day he died of histiocytosis. I am not convinced that the water had anything to do with the histiocytosis. But I can also guarantee that every single solitary Berner that has died of histiocytosis - drank water at some time before their death. This still, however, does not convince me that the water had anything to do with the histiocytosis. I am not trying to make fun of something serious, but I am trying to make an important point. 3. Some medical conditions can cause more severe reactions to medications. If a patient has kidney problems to begin with, then certain medications can cause borderline function to become critical. Do a blood workup to help identify problems before any long term drug therapy is given, and monitor changes closely. It does not mean that the drug caused the failure of the kidneys, but perhaps overloaded a system already headed for a crisis. 4. Just because something is in writing does not make it true. People can pass along incorrect information with the best of intentions. People can also pass along misinformation intentionally. Question any source carefully. Was it from someone trying to share carefully gathered information? From a drug manufacturer trying to make their drug seem safer? trying to make a competitor's drug seem less safe? How was the information derived? None of this makes it any easier to make informed decisions. But please don't be quick to assume either the best or the worst. Penicillin is one of the most important drugs to come out of the last 100 years. But if someone is allergic, it can kill them. That does not change the fact that penicillin has saved a great many more lives than it has harmed. Sulfa drugs have the same sort of track record. Be cautious, but try to be careful about being WELL informed. http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html Many people have dogs that lived much longer pain free because of rimadyl. How many dogs has it helped versus how many have had bad side effects? I haven't seen any sort of data that would give us a clue other than what the drug manufacturer reports, which is 1 to 3 cases with bad side effects per 10,000 dogs treated. If I have a dog in pain severe enough to consider euthanasia, and I didn't have any other good choice, then that's a risk I would happily take. But I'd be careful! Pat Long (& Luther) Berwyn PA
Re: Rimadyl
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I guess I'm in the minority here. I have used rimadyl on Gunner with no > problems at all, in fact, it works great on him. Rimadyl extended the life of my elderly, displastic Akita by about two years. Nothing else gave him the kind of relief which would make his life quality worth having. He experienced no problems. Like any powerful drug, it has a range of efficacies and range of effects which are not desirable. For some dogs, it is a killer--but for some people, so is something as simple as a peanut butter sandwich. Heck, one of my best friends cannot eat a PB & J sandwich for lunch and kiss her spouse when she comes home from work without putting him in the emergency room with an allergic reaction. He once ended up in the hospital after someone at a restaurant cut his dessert with the same knife used to cut another dessert with peanut butter as a main ingredient. We must not take drugs for granted, and even simple and common "safe" remedies should be monitored carefully. Rimadyl has helped many, many dogs. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002
Re: Rimadyl
> > Has anyone had any issues with side effects using Rimadyl in the short term, > in this case after tpo surgery? - I guess I'm in the minority here. I have used rimadyl on Gunner with no problems at all, in fact, it works great on him. Gunner doesn't have the best joints. About 14 months ago I took him to the vet because he was limping I couldn't get it to go away. When he over does it he will limp sometimes. The vet gave me a bottle of rimadyl to use for 2 weeks. After two doses Gunner stopped limping and I didn't give him anymore, but I kept the rimadyl. When Gunner would limp, which isn't often and aspirin wouldn't help I'd give Gunner 1 1/2 rimadyl and the limp goes away. I definitely don't give it to him often, in fact, from that bottle 14 months ago I still have 2 doses left. When Gunner had his lump taken out a month or so ago he had a 12 inch incision and was in a lot of pain the first day or so even though he had an injection of pain killers. The vet gave me rimadyl, enough for a week. After 4 days I stopped because Gunner was doing so good. I just keep the rimadyl in case I need one for Gunner. I give Gunner gloucosamine and chondroitin every day but every so often he needs an extra something and the rimadyl has done it for him. I wouldn't want Gunner to take it or any drug on a daily basis unless absolutely necessary. After one dose he doesn't need another and he has shown no side effects at all. There is a lady where I work that has an old Golden who is very arthritic. The Golden does take rimadyl on a daily basis and it has no side effects. I always ask how it is doing being on rimadyl like that and she always says the dog is doing great. My Gunner and the Golden are the only two experiences I've had with rimadyl. Kathy Schmitz, Woodstock, Georgia Gunner & Brighteye Meine Liebe "Greta" CGC "Mattie" Matterhorn Princess CD, NA, CGC (in loving memory, always the light of my life)
Re: Rimadyl
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Re: Rimadyl
We had been given Rimadyl for our Baloo after his neutering surgery - for pain. He had a terrible reaction to it - he was restless, panting, couldn't/wouldn't stay still anywhere... always wandering around like he was lost. We couldn't stand it! We took him off it after a few days, and he was fine. Guess dogs have varied reactions to meds just like people do! Liz Steinweg & The Crew Blue Moon's Baloo Berry Torte "Baloo" - our rescue Berner-boy! Bobby Sox (husky-x), Figaro (20+ lb Forest Cat) Rio & Sahara (the "Rat Cats") and in loving memory of my 1st BMD - Toby (6/29/97 - 6/30/00) Colorado Springs CO http://www.csbservices.com/personal/personal.htm - Original Message - Has anyone had any issues with side effects using Rimadyl in the short term, in this case after tpo surgery? _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf
Rimadyl
Has anyone had any issues with side effects using Rimadyl in the short term, in this case after tpo surgery? Molly woke up this morning with diarrhea; we've called the vet and are waiting for a callback, so I just thought I would post the question here. After a week of deracoxib, she had no other meds to take beyond the aspirin that was part of her pre-surgery regimen. When we saw the local vet last Thursday to have the staples out, we explained that Molly had been whimpering, yelping and whining a lot, and the vet gave us Rimadyl to try. She has had one 75 mg Rimadyl each day since then and seemed to be feeling much better. It would be helpful to know if anyone else using Rimadyl has dealt with G-I symptoms in their precious pups. Thanks, Martha and Molly _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_virusprotection_3mf
Re: Rimadyl vs Etogesic
I used Etogesic for a long time on a berner with doggie MS. It was so much better for her than the Rimadyl. I had no side effects and it worked well. I liked the once a day dosing. I liked it and had good success with it. Candy
Re: Arthritis, Rimadyl, Confusion, Dread
Hi Richard- As with any medication, you first need to evaluate the dog's problem and then determine if the pros outweigh the cons for medicating. The description that you have used in your post regarding Bodhi's health leads me to believe that you are seeking some kind of pain relief for your Bodhi. Since his liver enzyme levels are indeed elevated, the Rimadyl may increase those values over time...yet it may be the best relief for your friend. Typically you will see positive results rather quickly with the use of anti-inflammatories. I would not be surprised if you noticed that Bodhi is more comfortable after just 1-2 doses of the Rimadyl. If you give the chewable form in a meal for a week or two...and gradually taper down the dose from 100mg twice daily to a dose that is effective for him but lower than the recommended dosage for his weight (such as 75mg once daily), you may give him the pain relief that he needs, while keeping his blood levels in check. Only Bodhi can determine what dose is right for him...you would just need to experiment and see what the lowest dosage is that he can handle. Another suggestion may be to ask your veterinarian about giving Piroxicam instead of the Rimadyl. Piroxicam is less expensive, is given once daily for 3 days, and then every other day. It does tend to be a little harsher on the stomach than Rimadyl, however many, many dogs do extremely well with this alternative. Before Rimadyl came out, most vets prescribed either Piroxicam capsules or Phenylbutazone tablets to relieve arthritis pain. Of course you could try Buffered Aspirin or Ascripton as well...but those leave the dog more susceptible to GI problems, such as ulcers, with long-term use. Also, incase you are unaware...Glucosamine & Chondroitin Sulfate are the same ingredients in Cosequin. If you are giving 2 different forms...you are probably wasting some money. :o( The typical recommendation is to give a 100 pound dog 1500mg Glucosamine daily. If you would like to add some other supplements to his diet that may help his arthritis pain, you may try adding 500-2000mg Vitamin C (gradually increase from 500mg over several weeks to prevent diarrhea). Flax Seed Oil has been suggested in the past (I don't have a dose for that...perhaps another Berner-L'er could offer a dosage for you to try?) Also, fish oil has been recommended as a supplement, such as Derm Caps sold in your veterinary clinic. I guess the true question that you and your veterinarian need to decide is, what is most important in Bodhi's older years...keeping his liver values low & in a relatively safe range, or giving him pain relief that may increase those values? My personal opinion is that if I were treating my 2 yr old for arthritis pain...monitoring blood levels and using the safest possible anti-inflammatories would be essential for the next 8-10 years. However, if I were treating my 10 yr old, my focus may lean more towards comfort and quality of life. Take Care- Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA
Arthritis, Rimadyl, Confusion, Dread
Hello, It definitely sounds like to you need to look for pain management for Bodhi - but you might want to consider Metacam instead of Rimadyl. It comes in a liquid form and you can adjust the dosage very easily up or down and it does not seem to have as many side effects as Rimadyl can have especially in dogs with elevated liver enzymes. Bernerly, Angela Wagenblast Wagenblast Kennels Caledonia, Ont.
Re: rimadyl etc.
Benjamin - I love hearing from vets! Caesar used to be on Rimadyl only once in a while (one within 1-2 weeks) but the past two weeks, there have been a few more cries and a few difficulties such as stopping in the middle of a walk (wanting to come home), crying a bit more, etc. Nothing major, but more than there was. We will be giving every day or every other day depending on planned activity level, but so far hasn't shown any adverse reactions. Do you think it wise to get levels checked within a month or so if we continue this regime? Anyone else, please step in if you've had to do this... Thanks in advance, Kim and Caesar (18 mos)
RE: rimadyl etc.
> >Bodhi is over 10 years old now. >He's also got arthritis in his elbows. They are just about fused solid. >He's bright and cheerful, showing no signs of losing his interest in the >world, but he's slowing down a lot. Stairs have been out for 6 months or >more. Recently the arthritis has gotten bad enough that even a carpeted >ramp has become a challenge. I've gotten used to his small sounds of >pain when he gets up, but hearing them when he tries to come up the ramp >or raise his front legs high enough to get through the dog doors is >enough to drive me to search for more options. > >He is on a glucosamine-chondroitin supplement. He also gets cosequin. >He's on a low bulk feed and his weight is under control (slight padding >over ribs, but getting a bit bony). good. the best thing for dogs with arthritis is to keep them skinny. There >seems to be anecdotal evidence of some breeds being more susceptible to >the bad side effects of Rimadyl, so I want to check in here to see if >there's any information that's BMD-specific. see below. >Last week Bodhi was at the vet and we did a blood panel. His lever >enzymes are at 170, up from 140 9 months ago. The vet says that she >starts to believe she's seeing a clear indication of a problem when it >hits 200, twice the normal level. depends on the enzyme; there are usually 3-4 values on the chemistry screen than indicate liver function. some are more liver specific than others. > >I am considering the following: 1) Put him on 100 mg twice a day with >food. 2) Continue for two weeks under close observation for all the side >effects of Rimadyl. Stop immediately and get another blood panel if >anything suspicious occurs. 3) If he shows clear improvement at the end >of two weeks and he's tolerating the drug well then continue, else try >something else. 4) If continuing, try reducing dosage and combining with >cosequin to see what minimum dosage provides adequate relief. Get >regular blood work to keep an eye on liver enzyme levels (vet will do a >"short panel" to just check the liver issues for reduced cost). that sounds extremely prudent and reasonable. side effects include vomiting and diarrhea, and jaundice. I say jaundice because there was a report of 16 or so labrador retrievers who developed acute hepatic necrosis that may be associated with them taking rimadyl. which raises the question: are labs more sensitive? or are there just more labs in the world that have arthritis and are thus put on rimadyl and so we see this adverse effect most prominently in these guys. i think the jury's still out, although i haven't heard of reports in other breeds. you should also know that there is a new drug on the market called Deramaxx (deracoxib) which is similar to vioxx and celebrex on the human market. it is being marketed by novartis for perioperative pain, however based on uses in humans, one might surmise that this could be another option for Bodhi or other dogs with chronic arthritis pain. It's new, so we don't know of any adverse effects of chronic use yet (the studies showed some GI problems, similar in incidence to rimadyl and etogesic) but i thought i should mention it's available, and in general i'm pretty excited about the possibilities because it seems to be quite effective for pain control. i wouldn't use it in dogs with renal insufficiency. there are other medications that can be tried, usually in combination with non-steroidal drugs (rimadyl, aspirin) that also don't have long histories of use in dogs, but may be helpful in the future for dogs with refractory arthritis pain. >So, questions: 1) Is a two week trial long enough? 2) Opinions on >likelihood of damage in a two week trial? How bad? Reversible? 3) If it >seems to be working out, how often should blood work be repeated? Once a >month? More often? Less OK? 1. yes. think of it as aspirin. some folks dose it like aspirin, instead of a straight two times daily regime, they give it when they think their dog needs it, or if they're going out on a long walk etc. 2. potentially. again, the liver damage hasn't been reported in berners, but i think it was obvious relatively soon after starting the drug. potentially reversible. 3. one month out, then every 3-6 months, sooner if you're worried or seeing signs. obviously, if you think your dog has a adverse reaction to rimadyl, the first thing is to stop the drug and then run them by your vet. There are a number of dogs who just experience some stomach upset with any drug, and so there may be transient vomiting or diarrhea with the first two doses, but this should resolve. hope this helps, ...ben Benjamin M. Brainard VMD Resident, Anesthesia/Emergency/Critical Care Veterinary Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania 3900 Delancy St. Phila, PA 19104 (215) 573-7779
Re: Arthritis, Rimadyl, Confusion, Dread
Hi Richard, Were this my dog... I'd try the Rimadyl (but I'd also try hard to fight the side affects). It sounds like you've done the research, you've informed yourself of the possible side effects, you'll monitor Bodhi closely (both by observation and bloodwork). To me, quality of life is everything so I'd go for the pain relief in a heartbeat Because of the already elevated liver enzymes, I'd start a regimen to help liver function before starting the Rimadyl and then I'd do bloodwork more often than usual. I'd probably run a limited profile (liver & kidney values) at 1 week, then 2 weeks, then 1 month, then a regular chemscreen every 3-4 months. There are some excellent supplements available for liver support. I believe that SamE is now widely accepted for this purpose in the veterinary community and available from vet pharmaceutical companies. I haven't used it in my regimen for minimizing the side effects of long term steroids so can't speak from personal experience on this one. I do use ALA (alpha lipoic acid), milk thistle, and a product called Livercare...the last added when liver numbers were rising in spite of the former. My bitch has been on these for well over a year, so far...so good. In addition to meds... I've found accupuncture very helpful for my 10-1/2 y.o. with bad knees and a painful shoulder (who just hopped up on the couch for a snooze ). It's expensive, you have to find a skilled practitioner, and it's not a panacea...but for my girl, it clearly helps alot. 48 hours after a treatment, she's very *up*...more bouncy, it's that 'joie de vivre' thing that you can't totally put your finger on but really makes you smile. For my friend's 13 y.o. berner (who's been on Rimadyl for a couple of years), accupuncture is the difference between being able to go upstairs to sleep with the family and not. BTW~ My girl got terrific pain relief from Rimadyl but the 2 week bloodwork showed that it was affecting her liver. We then tried Etogesic which doesn't give her as much pain relief but she tolerates it well so that's what she's on. I'd also continue the Cosequin DS at therapeutic dose. Hope Bodhi's feeling better soon, Sherri Venditti
Arthritis, Rimadyl, Confusion, Dread
Bodhi is over 10 years old now. He had a "stroke-like event" 20 months ago that left him with some pretty serious movement deficit in his hindquarters. That condition is stable and he's adapted admirably, although he is no longer a candidate for ski touring. He's also got arthritis in his elbows. They are just about fused solid. He's bright and cheerful, showing no signs of losing his interest in the world, but he's slowing down a lot. Stairs have been out for 6 months or more. Recently the arthritis has gotten bad enough that even a carpeted ramp has become a challenge. I've gotten used to his small sounds of pain when he gets up, but hearing them when he tries to come up the ramp or raise his front legs high enough to get through the dog doors is enough to drive me to search for more options. He is on a glucosamine-chondroitin supplement. He also gets cosequin. He's on a low bulk feed and his weight is under control (slight padding over ribs, but getting a bit bony). For the last few months the vet has been suggesting we consider Rimadyl. She's given me a lot of information on the drug and suggested sources for information on its pluses and minuses. I have followed up and gathered a great deal of information from a variety of sources. There seems to be anecdotal evidence of some breeds being more susceptible to the bad side effects of Rimadyl, so I want to check in here to see if there's any information that's BMD-specific. Last week Bodhi was at the vet and we did a blood panel. His lever enzymes are at 170, up from 140 9 months ago. The vet says that she starts to believe she's seeing a clear indication of a problem when it hits 200, twice the normal level. I am considering the following: 1) Put him on 100 mg twice a day with food. 2) Continue for two weeks under close observation for all the side effects of Rimadyl. Stop immediately and get another blood panel if anything suspicious occurs. 3) If he shows clear improvement at the end of two weeks and he's tolerating the drug well then continue, else try something else. 4) If continuing, try reducing dosage and combining with cosequin to see what minimum dosage provides adequate relief. Get regular blood work to keep an eye on liver enzyme levels (vet will do a "short panel" to just check the liver issues for reduced cost). So, questions: 1) Is a two week trial long enough? 2) Opinions on likelihood of damage in a two week trial? How bad? Reversible? 3) If it seems to be working out, how often should blood work be repeated? Once a month? More often? Less OK? I know that few here are vets, but I believe many of you as caring for our three-color friends as deeply as I do, so I thought I'd ask here, too. Richard, Bodhi (10+ years) & Jack (8+, but still thinks he's a puppy)
