Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
But they aren't extras. They are built-in functionality. They have always lived under Settings. ...which has always been ridiculous. As you say: they are functionality. Why should they be under Settings, you don't put functionality in Settings, no one does that. I'm not saying I particularly like it, just that that's where it all currently is at the moment, and why people already must visit Settings. There isn't an Extras menu any more by default, I think - extras, some internet radio stations and music services have been converted to Apps, and have to be installed to appear instead under My Apps or Home Menu. Nope. Install anything that uses Extras and the menu shows up. Like I said, there isn't an Extras menu by default. It's not there unless you enable it (or apparently install something into it - I didn't know that). I'm not dogmatic about Extras, _I_ would do a player features menu where all this could live. Along with Sync, Power, Maybe Volume. But that's just me. Are these also Settings in your oppinion? What is different then? Settings are built-in things, whereas Extras are additional functionality - things enabled by the user. Again, not saying I particularly like it (actually, I haven't got any problems with that), just what it currently is. This is not uncommon - iPods put the same functions under Settings too. I just checked. None of this under Settings on my iPhone. You can't sync, Shuffle and Repeat is on NowPlaying, Power has a button, Alarms have their own App. I can't speak for iPhone. I was talking about iPods. My iPod Nano has a Settings menu, which has things such as Repeat, Shuffle, Volume, Brightness, and a way to configure the Home menu. It also has an Extras menu, which holds things like applications such as Calendar, Games, Contacts. Curiously very similar to Squeezebox player menus. One thing I do notice is that iPods has alarms within Extras, rather than Settings. Phil ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
I like the idea of a Players menu, that would make it a lot easier to find player related functionality which you use often. It's effectively what Settings is - I think the suggestion is just a name change to that menu? ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
I don't like 2 'Apps' menus in the main menu as well. pippin;457220 Wrote: My Apps-App Gallery sounds like a good compromise to me. This sounds good to me too. Maybe even 'My Apps-Discover new Apps ...' I agree to anyone who thinks, that settings isn't the right place to put the menu, because there it wouldn't be prominent enough. -- bluegaspode One SB-Duet+Receiver. Server running on Linkstation NAS (LS-CHL). Needing one more device for bedroom and waiting for the radio :) bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Philip Meyer;457299 Wrote: The first thing I do when I get new software or consumer products is to go through Settings to see what is available I can assure you that you are kind of special in that respect. _I_ might do that after I tried the obvious stuff My mother, my GF, ... will never ever look into Settings. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
I can assure you that you are kind of special in that respect. I doubt I am that special. Everyone I know that has ever bought a TV has gone into settings to configure brightness, contrast, etc. And Squeezebox Radio is aimed as a bedroom player, so people will want to access Alarms, which are also under settings. People that are scared to touch settings are also unlikely to install Apps. But I understand that not everyone may want to change settings, configure alarm clocks or install applications. To me, it's logical to put the function that installs applications that cause a change in behaviour of the player (menus, etc), within Settings. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
pippin;457572 Wrote: I can assure you that you are kind of special in that respect. _I_ might do that after I tried the obvious stuff My mother, my GF, ... will never ever look into Settings. In conclusion; it depends on the user (type). But I'm convinced that having it at the root is *not* a good solution. The question is where to place it. I think one should include more context into the considiration. What mechanisms (should) ensure users discover it in the first place? a. They enjoy spending their evenings browsing the shiny SBC-menu structure. b. They know from (viral) marketing etc, that they can get a service/functionality, e.g. rhapsody, last.fm, facebook, flickr. I think b. is the starting correct answer. So one can assume that there is some incentive to find out *HOW*. The UI-design task is then to make it fairly obvious how to find it. I think Settings is a good candidate. -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Philip Meyer;457599 Wrote: I can assure you that you are kind of special in that respect. I doubt I am that special. Everyone I know that has ever bought a TV has gone into settings to configure brightness, contrast, etc. Well, I admit I have never bought a TV but I know quite a few people who did and do not change settings. And Squeezebox Radio is aimed as a bedroom player, so people will want to access Alarms, which are also under settings. Which is as absurd as putting the App Gallery there. People that are scared to touch settings are also unlikely to install Apps. That is exactly the point. I mean: You don't really install anything, you merely activate them To me, it's logical to put the function that installs applications that cause a change in behaviour of the player (menus, etc), within Settings. It may be logical but I'm sure it will drive down ratings and drive up work for the customer service. You have no idea how many people write e-mails to me and ask stuff about iPeng they would never, ever ask if they had only ever bothered to have a single look into the Settings menu. I do agree it's wrong in the home menu but I stick to my suggesting: put it in MyApps. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
pippin;457623 Wrote: I stick to my suggesting: put it in MyApps. The proposal does have the merit of avoiding crowding the Settings-page (more than it already is)... -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
And Squeezebox Radio is aimed as a bedroom player, so people will want to access Alarms, which are also under settings. Which is as absurd as putting the App Gallery there. So what things are within Settings that you consider incorrectly placed? Move them all to the Home menu? Maybe Settings should be named something else? People that are scared to touch settings are also unlikely to install Apps. That is exactly the point. I mean: You don't really install anything, you merely activate them That is what is presented though - users will have to install the apps. Maybe in the future some apps really will be installed, or maybe the action being provided at the moment is badly named. I think that will scare people off much more than changing the bass/treble level, turning on repeat or shuffle, etc, which are the other things found under settings. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
I stick to my suggesting: put it in MyApps. The proposal does have the merit of avoiding crowding the Settings-page (more than it already is)... But then it wouldn't really be My Apps would it. Would require a name change. Ultimately, I don't think My Apps is all that great. Once an app is installed I think the app should be integrated into existing menus (and optionally put on Home Menu). i.e. install a radio provider to put an icon within Internet Radio, etc. With the current release, there are other things that are disabled from menus by default, that are not apps, so you have to go to Settings Home Menu and tick the checkbox to access them. eg. Information Browser. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Philip Meyer;457652 Wrote: And Squeezebox Radio is aimed as a bedroom player, so people will want to access Alarms, which are also under settings. Which is as absurd as putting the App Gallery there. So what things are within Settings that you consider incorrectly placed? Move them all to the Home menu? Maybe Settings should be named something else? Did I suggest to place anything in the home menu? Alarms and Shuffle belong under Extras and on the NowPlaying screen respectively. Is Repeat also under settings? This also belongs on the NowPlaying screen. Actually, AREN'T these already on the NowPlaying screen on the Touch (don't have it at hand right now)? Just my 2cts. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Did I suggest to place anything in the home menu? No, actually you didn't, but I thought that's what you meant. Alarms and Shuffle belong under Extras and on the NowPlaying screen respectively. But they aren't extras. They are built-in functionality. They have always lived under Settings. There isn't an Extras menu any more by default, I think - extras, some internet radio stations and music services have been converted to Apps, and have to be installed to appear instead under My Apps or Home Menu. Except for the things that aren't apps that just aren't visible at all in the menu. Is Repeat also under settings? Yes. And Synchronise. i.e. Some functionality that could be used frequently by some users is in Settings. This is not uncommon - iPods put the same functions under Settings too. i.e. average users are used to visiting settings. This also belongs on the NowPlaying screen. Actually, AREN'T these already on the NowPlaying screen on the Touch (don't have it at hand right now)? Yes - Repeat and Shuffle I believe are two buttons on the bottom-left of the NP screen. But not on Classic players ;-) ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Philip Meyer;457668 Wrote: Did I suggest to place anything in the home menu? No, actually you didn't, but I thought that's what you meant. read again. I explicitly said the opposite Alarms and Shuffle belong under Extras and on the NowPlaying screen respectively. But they aren't extras. They are built-in functionality. They have always lived under Settings. ...which has always been ridiculous. As you say: they are functionality. Why should they be under Settings, you don't put functionality in Settings, no one does that. There isn't an Extras menu any more by default, I think - extras, some internet radio stations and music services have been converted to Apps, and have to be installed to appear instead under My Apps or Home Menu. Nope. Install anything that uses Extras and the menu shows up. I'm not dogmatic about Extras, _I_ would do a player features menu where all this could live. Along with Sync, Power, Maybe Volume. But that's just me. Are these also Settings in your oppinion? What is different then? This is not uncommon - iPods put the same functions under Settings too. I just checked. None of this under Settings on my iPhone. You can't sync, Shuffle and Repeat is on NowPlaying, Power has a button, Alarms have their own App. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
The Home menu should really just contain items which you access on daily basis and App Gallery isn't one of these things. While this is true, we have to expose it clearly to the user. If it was hidden somewhere deep in some settings menu, most users probably would never discover what possibilities they had. We want the user to discover new apps. This allows us to have a clean main menu to start with and let the user add what he likes only (instead of the flood of services we used to have there). It is possible to hide it by configuring the Home menu to not show it but then it gets completely hidden as there isn't any way to enabled it under My Apps or Setting. Might be worth a bug report/enhancement request. Would you mind?... Thanks! ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
While this is true, we have to expose it clearly to the user. If it was hidden somewhere deep in some settings menu, most users probably would never discover what possibilities they had. We want the user to discover new apps. This allows us to have a clean main menu to start with and let the user add what he likes only (instead of the flood of services we used to have there). Settings App Gallery isn't deeply hidden - it would be a logic place to find new things to configure. If you want users to discover new apps, then have a New Apps gallery on the Home menu, ONLY when there are newer apps available. If App Gallery is permanently on the Home menu, and it always has the full list of all apps, then a user may visit the list a couple of times, but then not revisit again, and maybe even work out how to disable it, and thus never find new apps in the future. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Philip Meyer;457166 Wrote: If App Gallery is permanently on the Home menu, and it always has the full list of all apps, then a user may visit the list a couple of times, but then not revisit again, and maybe even work out how to disable it, and thus never find new apps in the future. But it's not permanent, is it? At least with r7485 the user can go to Settings Home Menu and select/de-select App Gallery. However, if App Gallery is removed from the SBC home menu then it doesn't seem to appear under Settings or anywhere else. In other words, the user has to restore it to the Home Menu in order to regain access to App Gallery. I can see the logic of having App Gallery default to being on the Home Menu, to increase user awareness of the possibilities. Afterward the user can remove it from the home menu, although I think it would be better if removing it from the home menu would shift it to the Settings menu, rather than disappearing it completely. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
My Apps-App Gallery sounds like a good compromise to me. If you don't know about apps and want to discover some, that's where you will look for them since it will be the only item there, won't it? -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
Philip Meyer;457166 Wrote: If you want users to discover new apps, then have a New Apps gallery on the Home menu, ONLY when there are newer apps available. I kind of like the idea of having some kind of indication when there is a new or upgraded application. The only problem is how to detect that something is new ? If it's considered new until you have entered the menu once there is a risk the user has a hard time finding apps after he has installed the first app since the menu then will disappear. I suppose you might consider an application new until you have scrolled so it has been selected once in the menu, that would leave the menu enabled until you have scrolled through all apps. Of course, that might instead cause questions asking how to get rid of the new apps indication since all users might not realize they need to scroll through all apps. I agree with pippin that My Apps/App Gallery would be best, it makes the applications as noticeable as the current solution but without cluttering the home menu. Combined with the new apps indication that would make sure no one misses them. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
mherger;457156 Wrote: It is possible to hide it by configuring the Home menu to not show it but then it gets completely hidden as there isn't any way to enabled it under My Apps or Setting. Might be worth a bug report/enhancement request. Would you mind?... Thanks! https://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13972 -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
I kind of like the idea of having some kind of indication when there is a new or upgraded application. The only problem is how to detect that something is new ? I was thinking not so much automatically removing something when it has been viewed, but when it has either been installed, or the user has selected an ignore option. i.e. right-arrow into an item and be offered actions: More Info - description about the plugin Install - Put the item into My Apps, Home Menu, etc. Ignore - indicate that you are not interested in the app, maybe move the item into an Ignored category, so they can still be accessed later if desired. In addition, if an app has been ignored and a newer (major) version is available, it could be restored to the App Gallery original category. The App Gallery menu could change to App Gallery - New! when there are new/changed apps available. I agree with pippin that My Apps/App Gallery would be best, it makes the applications as noticeable as the current solution but without cluttering the home menu. Combined with the new apps indication that would make sure no one misses them. That would be okay, although I can understand why App Gallery is separate from My Apps initially. Could be a little confusing at first - user hasn't got any apps, so why look in My Apps? Personally, if it were to go that way, I'd change My Apps to Apps, and then include App Gallery within Apps. I'd personally prefer App Gallery to be in Settings, and keep My Apps for installed apps only. The first thing I do when I get new software or consumer products is to go through Settings to see what is available, and Settings/installable extras should be in one place. ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
[SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
again a small detail. Shouldn't said menu be placed under Settings rather than at the root. It seems to me that its purpose is to allow for new apps to be installed, i.e. a setting-kind of thing. -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
Re: [SlimDevices: Beta] Placement of AppGalery-menu on SBC
bhaagensen;457061 Wrote: again a small detail. Shouldn't said menu be placed under Settings rather than at the root. It seems to me that its purpose is to allow for new apps to be installed, i.e. a setting-kind of thing. I have to agree with this. The Home menu should really just contain items which you access on daily basis and App Gallery isn't one of these things. The App Gallery menu seems somewhat similar to the Applet Installer menu on the Controller or the Plugins tab in the web interface. I'd like to either have it inside settings or maybe as a sub menu under My Apps. My guess is that a reason to have it where it is at the moment is to give applications a bit more visibility, however, putting it as a sub menu under My Apps would do this also without cluttering the Home menu. It is possible to hide it by configuring the Home menu to not show it but then it gets completely hidden as there isn't any way to enabled it under My Apps or Setting. On the Controller the current positioning of the App Gallery also makes Favorites roll of the Home screen so you need to scroll to reach Favorites. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info) (Install my plugins through Extension Downloader) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library, Title Switcher and Database Query plugins' (http://wiki.erland.isaksson.info/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67740 ___ beta mailing list beta@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/beta
