[Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
Hi all, Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net #blendercoders. 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release - Planning for release didn't change: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: https://developer.blender.org/T38371 - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths (like Japanese). https://developer.blender.org/T35176 Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need help. - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It still needs to be reviewed though. 2) Other projects - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be online this week. - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render in Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR render future: http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr Thanks, -Ton- Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
Hello, regarding proxies, it would also be nice if they would work based rather on hierarchy, than on a group of linked objects.(not as group as blender type, these work different when linked?) Imagine you add some object to a character, or split some in two, this makes the scenes where this character is linked outdated, since these don't relink the new objects? Usually, it's a good way of organizing a character, to have everything eihter paranted to armature object, or to some root empty. Also, linking with all children would be in this respect a very usefull feature, sometimes selecting all the objects needed can be complicated, while this way, only the root object would be linked to get whole character. Regards V. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. And ridding it of the weird and obscure quirks it currently has. I could be wrong, but that seems like one of the biggest production bottlenecks that Blender currently faces. It certainly made a lot of things painful on Sintel. We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation anyway, just via Python scripts. But it was a terrible user experience, error prone, and impractical for doing any kind of complex animation since it had to be scripted. --Nathan On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: > Hi all, > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net #blendercoders. > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release > > - Planning for release didn't change: > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths (like > Japanese). > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or update > scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need help. > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It still > needs to be reviewed though. > > 2) Other projects > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be online > this week. > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render in > Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR render > future: > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr > > Thanks, > > -Ton- > > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands > > > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: > > Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. > making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. > +! > We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA > layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally > overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation > anyway, just via Python scripts. > For simulation and pretty much everywhere. Changing Scales from a wounded dragon to a healthy one is just a matter of a couple py lines. If something like this could have a better user experience and control, it would be huge. > > --Nathan > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net#blendercoders. > > > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release > > > > - Planning for release didn't change: > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects > > > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: > > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 > > > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ > > > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths > (like Japanese). > > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 > > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. > > > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need > help. > > > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It > still needs to be reviewed though. > > > > 2) Other projects > > > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: > > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ > > > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be > online this week. > > > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render > in Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK > > > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR > render future: > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Ton- > > > > > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute > > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands > > > > > > > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:48 -0800, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: > > Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. > making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. > And ridding it of the weird and obscure quirks it currently has. I > could be wrong, but that seems like one of the biggest production > bottlenecks that Blender currently faces. It certainly made a lot of > things painful on Sintel. +1 -though maybe 'proxy' itself doesn't need to remain, just a way of overriding in a more generic way - I guess it could be called proxy, but I'm thinking 'more like the way' python overriding works, but in the UI instead: I guess that's what you mean by 'RNA layering system' below. > > We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA > layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally > overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation > anyway, just via Python scripts. But it was a terrible user > experience, error prone, and impractical for doing any kind of complex > animation since it had to be scripted. We have been making custom scripts with UIs in wires for empathy for the same thing: basically creating local scene properties and a toolbox interface, to override specific linked properties. It is pretty solid, but, you do have to plan ahead for every single override, creating a bottleneck on scripters/riggers to make things available. It also is cumbersome from an animation perspective (you would have to do on frame change update handlers for any properties you need animated) - but the fact that this stuff can be kludged via python is encouraging that it might be implementable as a 'proper' design. > > --Nathan > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net #blendercoders. > > > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release > > > > - Planning for release didn't change: > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects > > > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: > > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 > > > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ > > > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths (like > > Japanese). > > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 > > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. > > > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or > > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need > > help. > > > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the > > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It > > still needs to be reviewed though. > > > > 2) Other projects > > > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender > > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: > > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ > > > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be online > > this week. > > > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render in > > Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK > > > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR render > > future: > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Ton- > > > > > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute > > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands > > > > > > > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
I strongly rely on linked libraries but as pointed out by Bassam if you don't carefully plan everything you have no chance to locally override specific properties. Unfortunately I'm always in a hurry and there's never time to cope with complex python scripts... The ability to "proxyfy" properties, or whatever you like to call it, would be one of the major improvement I could benefit! 2014-02-13 19:59 GMT+01:00 Bassam Kurdali : > On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:48 -0800, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > > Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: > > > > Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. > > making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. > > And ridding it of the weird and obscure quirks it currently has. I > > could be wrong, but that seems like one of the biggest production > > bottlenecks that Blender currently faces. It certainly made a lot of > > things painful on Sintel. > +1 -though maybe 'proxy' itself doesn't need to remain, just a way of > overriding in a more generic way - I guess it could be called proxy, but > I'm thinking 'more like the way' python overriding works, but in the UI > instead: I guess that's what you mean by 'RNA layering system' below. > > > > We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA > > layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally > > overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation > > anyway, just via Python scripts. But it was a terrible user > > experience, error prone, and impractical for doing any kind of complex > > animation since it had to be scripted. > We have been making custom scripts with UIs in wires for empathy for the > same thing: basically creating local scene properties and a toolbox > interface, to override specific linked properties. It is pretty solid, > but, you do have to plan ahead for every single override, creating a > bottleneck on scripters/riggers to make things available. It also is > cumbersome from an animation perspective (you would have to do on frame > change update handlers for any properties you need animated) - but the > fact that this stuff can be kludged via python is encouraging that it > might be implementable as a 'proper' design. > > > > --Nathan > > > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net#blendercoders. > > > > > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release > > > > > > - Planning for release didn't change: > > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects > > > > > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: > > > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 > > > > > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: > > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ > > > > > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths > (like Japanese). > > > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 > > > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. > > > > > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need > help. > > > > > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It > still needs to be reviewed though. > > > > > > 2) Other projects > > > > > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: > > > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ > > > > > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be > online this week. > > > > > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR > render in Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. > > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK > > > > > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR > render future: > > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -Ton- > > > > > > > > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > > > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute > > > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Bf-committers mailing list > > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > -- Francesco Paglia Vfx and Production Supervisor mobile +39 347.82.12.473 e-mai
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
+0001 ;) Oh one more thing: The current system relies heavily on groups + proxies for overrides. Among the current limitations of the system right now is that there is no way to make an instance 'unique' with flexibility: cycles has some tricks for shaders, but animation is copied to all instances. While this is good for rendering huge scenes, it is a limitation for doing e.g. crowds- could be part of the discussion as well, at least on how to make such things possible. Cheers Bassam On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 16:37 -0200, Pablo Vazquez wrote: > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > > > Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: > > > > Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. > > making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. > > > > +! > > > > We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA > > layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally > > overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation > > anyway, just via Python scripts. > > > > For simulation and pretty much everywhere. Changing Scales from a wounded > dragon to a healthy one is just a matter of a couple py lines. If something > like this could have a better user experience and control, it would be huge. > > > > > > --Nathan > > > > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net#blendercoders. > > > > > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release > > > > > > - Planning for release didn't change: > > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects > > > > > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: > > > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 > > > > > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: > > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ > > > > > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths > > (like Japanese). > > > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 > > > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. > > > > > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or > > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need > > help. > > > > > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the > > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It > > still needs to be reviewed though. > > > > > > 2) Other projects > > > > > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender > > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: > > > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ > > > > > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be > > online this week. > > > > > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render > > in Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. > > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK > > > > > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR > > render future: > > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -Ton- > > > > > > > > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > > > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute > > > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Bf-committers mailing list > > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > ___ > > Bf-committers mailing list > > Bf-committers@blender.org > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
Hello, Don't know if it's applicable (or even helpful to mention) but a while back I had to add a flag to RNA to get the Selection Sets addon to work properly that lets it locally override values (selection state of the proxy bones IIRC) from the linked in armatures so perhaps the 'RNA layering' system already exists but isn't in general use? I'd have to hunt down the commit and look over the Selection Sets addon to fully remember what problem I was solving but it does sound like RNA has the basic ability needed here. Dan ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
Hopefully this can also apply to point data itself so we can use AnimAll functionality on a proxyfied group! Daniel Salazar patazstudio.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Bassam Kurdali wrote: > +0001 ;) > Oh one more thing: > The current system relies heavily on groups + proxies for overrides. > > Among the current limitations of the system right now is that there is > no way to make an instance 'unique' with flexibility: cycles has some > tricks for shaders, but animation is copied to all instances. > > While this is good for rendering huge scenes, it is a limitation for > doing e.g. crowds- could be part of the discussion as well, at least on > how to make such things possible. > > Cheers > Bassam > On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 16:37 -0200, Pablo Vazquez wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: >> >> > Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: >> > >> > Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. >> > making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. >> > >> >> +! >> >> >> > We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA >> > layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally >> > overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation >> > anyway, just via Python scripts. >> > >> >> For simulation and pretty much everywhere. Changing Scales from a wounded >> dragon to a healthy one is just a matter of a couple py lines. If something >> like this could have a better user experience and control, it would be huge. >> >> >> > >> > --Nathan >> > >> > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: >> > > Hi all, >> > > >> > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in >> > > irc.freenode.net#blendercoders. >> > > >> > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release >> > > >> > > - Planning for release didn't change: >> > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects >> > > >> > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: >> > > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 >> > > >> > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: >> > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ >> > > >> > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths >> > (like Japanese). >> > > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 >> > > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. >> > > >> > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or >> > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need >> > help. >> > > >> > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the >> > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It >> > still needs to be reviewed though. >> > > >> > > 2) Other projects >> > > >> > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender >> > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: >> > > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ >> > > >> > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be >> > online this week. >> > > >> > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render >> > in Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. >> > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK >> > > >> > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR >> > render future: >> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > -Ton- >> > > >> > > >> > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org >> > > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute >> > > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ___ >> > > Bf-committers mailing list >> > > Bf-committers@blender.org >> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > ___ >> > Bf-committers mailing list >> > Bf-committers@blender.org >> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers >> > >> ___ >> Bf-committers mailing list >> Bf-committers@blender.org >> http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > > > ___ > Bf-committers mailing list > Bf-committers@blender.org > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 15:24 -0600, Daniel Salazar - patazstudio.com wrote: > Hopefully this can also apply to point data itself so we can use > AnimAll functionality on a proxyfied group! > Daniel Salazar > patazstudio.com +1000 we were talking about this recently and mentioned that this will make blender animations *better* not just 'easier'. Why? working on local characters is terrible for workflow, but you can do so much little nuanced secondary stuff that isn't in the rig, essentially sculpting your character with shapes, anim, warp modifiers, etc. groups/linked files are so needed for making a bigger project feasible, but it kind of means that you have to throw out the 'good stuff' - or resort to horrendously massive rigs and/or cumbersome workarounds. > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:03 PM, Bassam Kurdali wrote: > > +0001 ;) > > Oh one more thing: > > The current system relies heavily on groups + proxies for overrides. > > > > Among the current limitations of the system right now is that there is > > no way to make an instance 'unique' with flexibility: cycles has some > > tricks for shaders, but animation is copied to all instances. > > > > While this is good for rendering huge scenes, it is a limitation for > > doing e.g. crowds- could be part of the discussion as well, at least on > > how to make such things possible. > > > > Cheers > > Bassam > > On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 16:37 -0200, Pablo Vazquez wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: > >> > >> > Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: > >> > > >> > Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. > >> > making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. > >> > > >> > >> +! > >> > >> > >> > We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA > >> > layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally > >> > overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation > >> > anyway, just via Python scripts. > >> > > >> > >> For simulation and pretty much everywhere. Changing Scales from a wounded > >> dragon to a healthy one is just a matter of a couple py lines. If something > >> like this could have a better user experience and control, it would be > >> huge. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > --Nathan > >> > > >> > On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: > >> > > Hi all, > >> > > > >> > > Here are the notes from today's meeting in > >> > > irc.freenode.net#blendercoders. > >> > > > >> > > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release > >> > > > >> > > - Planning for release didn't change: > >> > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects > >> > > > >> > > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: > >> > > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 > >> > > > >> > > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: > >> > > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ > >> > > > >> > > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths > >> > (like Japanese). > >> > > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 > >> > > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. > >> > > > >> > > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or > >> > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need > >> > help. > >> > > > >> > > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the > >> > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It > >> > still needs to be reviewed though. > >> > > > >> > > 2) Other projects > >> > > > >> > > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender > >> > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: > >> > > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ > >> > > > >> > > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be > >> > online this week. > >> > > > >> > > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render > >> > in Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. > >> > > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK > >> > > > >> > > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR > >> > render future: > >> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-npr > >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >> > > > >> > > -Ton- > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org > >> > > Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute > >> > > Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ___ > >> > > Bf-committers mailing list > >> > > Bf-committers@blender.org > >> > > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers > >> > ___ > >> > Bf-committers mailing list > >> > Bf-committers@blender.org > >> > http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
> +1 -though maybe 'proxy' itself doesn't need to remain, just a way of > overriding in a more generic way Agreed. As useful as the proxy system has been, it's really time to put it to rest in favor of something much more flexible, robust, and generic. > I'm thinking 'more like the way' python overriding works, but in the UI > instead: I guess that's what you mean by 'RNA layering system' below. Yes, that's what I meant. :-) I also think it's important to plan for even more flexibility than that. An 'RNA layering system' would be the foundation, and provide some nice basic guarantees about things you can do override locally. But ultimately we also want to support things like locally added/overridden shape keys, vertex groups, modifiers, materials, physics... the list goes on. But even just basic RNA value overriding would be a good start. And it doesn't have to be an all-at-once kind of thing. It can be a migratory kind of thing. E.g. the proxy system can still be maintained in parallel until things actually get to the point where it's fully redundant. In any case, I just wanted to get the conversation started, because this is one of those un-sexy problems that's easy to overlook and ignore because it's not fun. But it desperately needs to be addressed at some point (I'm hoping sooner rather than later). --Nathan On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Bassam Kurdali wrote: > On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:48 -0800, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: >> Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: >> >> Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. >> making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. >> And ridding it of the weird and obscure quirks it currently has. I >> could be wrong, but that seems like one of the biggest production >> bottlenecks that Blender currently faces. It certainly made a lot of >> things painful on Sintel. > +1 -though maybe 'proxy' itself doesn't need to remain, just a way of > overriding in a more generic way - I guess it could be called proxy, but > I'm thinking 'more like the way' python overriding works, but in the UI > instead: I guess that's what you mean by 'RNA layering system' below. >> >> We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA >> layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally >> overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation >> anyway, just via Python scripts. But it was a terrible user >> experience, error prone, and impractical for doing any kind of complex >> animation since it had to be scripted. > We have been making custom scripts with UIs in wires for empathy for the > same thing: basically creating local scene properties and a toolbox > interface, to override specific linked properties. It is pretty solid, > but, you do have to plan ahead for every single override, creating a > bottleneck on scripters/riggers to make things available. It also is > cumbersome from an animation perspective (you would have to do on frame > change update handlers for any properties you need animated) - but the > fact that this stuff can be kludged via python is encouraging that it > might be implementable as a 'proper' design. >> >> --Nathan >> >> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net #blendercoders. >> > >> > 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release >> > >> > - Planning for release didn't change: >> > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects >> > >> > - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: >> > https://developer.blender.org/T38371 >> > >> > - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: >> > https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ >> > >> > - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths (like >> > Japanese). >> > https://developer.blender.org/T35176 >> > Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. >> > >> > - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or >> > update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Campbell if you need >> > help. >> > >> > - Sketchfab will submit an add-on to be included in release, using the >> > 'commercial services' deal we've reviewed and accepted last August. It >> > still needs to be reviewed though. >> > >> > 2) Other projects >> > >> > - Ton Roosendaal wrote a report of the developer meeting in Blender >> > Institute, to map out issues for the next film project: >> > http://gooseberry.blender.org/developer-meeting-pipeline-and-tools/ >> > >> > - Lukas Toenne started to work on a cleanup compositor code, will be >> > online this week. >> > >> > - After the meeting, there was a discussion on the status of NPR render in >> > Blender, and the 'BEER' project from Bong Wee Kwong. >> > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/User:LightBWK >> > >> > A new mailing list has been added to discuss work on Blender's NPR render >> > future: >> > http://lists.blender.org/mai
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender developer meeting notes, February 9, 2014
Hi Nathan, Bassam, etc etc. To prevent this topic to get lost in the avalanches of emails here, let's consider to re-activate the bf-animsys list for it. http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-animsys That way things get a bit more condensed and coherent. I'll make sure that the devs who will do animation coding for Gooseberry will report on that list and use it to validate their todo lists, planning and designs. Might take a month or two - we have to do a fundraiser first still :) Laters, -Ton- Ton Roosendaal - t...@blender.org - www.blender.org Chairman Blender Foundation - Producer Blender Institute Entrepotdok 57A - 1018AD Amsterdam - The Netherlands On 14 Feb, 2014, at 2:32, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: >> +1 -though maybe 'proxy' itself doesn't need to remain, just a way of >> overriding in a more generic way > > Agreed. As useful as the proxy system has been, it's really time to > put it to rest in favor of something much more flexible, robust, and > generic. > >> I'm thinking 'more like the way' python overriding works, but in the UI >> instead: I guess that's what you mean by 'RNA layering system' below. > > Yes, that's what I meant. :-) I also think it's important to plan for > even more flexibility than that. An 'RNA layering system' would be > the foundation, and provide some nice basic guarantees about things > you can do override locally. But ultimately we also want to support > things like locally added/overridden shape keys, vertex groups, > modifiers, materials, physics... the list goes on. > > But even just basic RNA value overriding would be a good start. > > And it doesn't have to be an all-at-once kind of thing. It can be a > migratory kind of thing. E.g. the proxy system can still be > maintained in parallel until things actually get to the point where > it's fully redundant. > > In any case, I just wanted to get the conversation started, because > this is one of those un-sexy problems that's easy to overlook and > ignore because it's not fun. But it desperately needs to be addressed > at some point (I'm hoping sooner rather than later). > > --Nathan > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Bassam Kurdali wrote: >> On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:48 -0800, Nathan Vegdahl wrote: >>> Regarding the Gooseberry meeting: >>> >>> Is this a good time to finally revisit the proxy system as well? I.e. >>> making it useful for all object types and data, not just Armatures. >>> And ridding it of the weird and obscure quirks it currently has. I >>> could be wrong, but that seems like one of the biggest production >>> bottlenecks that Blender currently faces. It certainly made a lot of >>> things painful on Sintel. >> +1 -though maybe 'proxy' itself doesn't need to remain, just a way of >> overriding in a more generic way - I guess it could be called proxy, but >> I'm thinking 'more like the way' python overriding works, but in the UI >> instead: I guess that's what you mean by 'RNA layering system' below. >>> >>> We had discussed at the time changing it to some kind of "RNA >>> layering" system, where linked data could have its RNA values locally >>> overridden. We were essentially doing that on Sintel for simulation >>> anyway, just via Python scripts. But it was a terrible user >>> experience, error prone, and impractical for doing any kind of complex >>> animation since it had to be scripted. >> We have been making custom scripts with UIs in wires for empathy for the >> same thing: basically creating local scene properties and a toolbox >> interface, to override specific linked properties. It is pretty solid, >> but, you do have to plan ahead for every single override, creating a >> bottleneck on scripters/riggers to make things available. It also is >> cumbersome from an animation perspective (you would have to do on frame >> change update handlers for any properties you need animated) - but the >> fact that this stuff can be kludged via python is encouraging that it >> might be implementable as a 'proper' design. >>> >>> --Nathan >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Ton Roosendaal wrote: Hi all, Here are the notes from today's meeting in irc.freenode.net #blendercoders. 1) Work on upcoming 2.70 release - Planning for release didn't change: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Doc/Projects - Image Editor panels are being reshuffled now: https://developer.blender.org/T38371 - Crucial bugs to be done are now listed in a special page: https://developer.blender.org/project/view/35/ - Showstopper bug is for Windows with non-Ascii character file paths (like Japanese). https://developer.blender.org/T35176 Campbell Barton and Tamito Kajiyama will check on it. - Note! Python scripters who added toolbar buttons should check and/or update scripts, because of news tabs there. Connect Ca
