Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
They use at least bash, wget and gcc. Lets tell GNU so they can sue them! :) Apple complies publishing the modified source code of these applications indenpendently, but not xcode wich is propietary. Also apple is sponsoring BSD licensed replacements for all GPL applications used and in use currently, the most notory being LLVM and CLANG, so they are trying to get rid of all GPL code from OSX. I've got another idea (then I stop spamming here): Would it comply to App Store rules if one would write a native OS X application (conforming to HIG and BSD licensed) that is a Blender Downloader or Blender Installer or Blender Manager. This would not include blender, but would download and install blender. It would also provide a menu with options like put blender into dock and associate .blend files with blender etc. Maybe it could let you manage multiple blender installation. E.g. blender 2.49, blender 2.5x and a list of the latest GraphicAll builds. From the Mac App Store Terms and Conditions: Apps that download other standalone apps will be rejected. Apps that install kexts (kernel extensions) will be rejected. Apps that require license keys or implement their own copy protection will be rejected. Apps that present a license screen at launch will be rejected. Apps may not use update mechanisms outside of the App Store. So will be rejected on the spot. If I would use OS X I would write such a software just to see whether Apple rejects it. They will. Anyways let stop polluting the mailing list about this. I think the forums of BA are the best place to discuss such things, and better, READ the terms and conditions imposed by Apple. All answers are there in plain english and very little legalesse to deal with. Regards J. -panzi ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
[Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
Hi, Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. App Store isn't compatible with GPL license. Even more, it was accident with VLC already -- Apple simply removed this application from App Store due to license incompatibility. Markus Kasten wrote: Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- With best regards, Sergey I. Sharybin ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
Hi, As I understood, the VLC incident was because of the original authors of VLC not wanting their software to be in the App store, apple just followed the original copyright holder's request. As for the license, we need a lawyer for that :) On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Sergey I. Sharybin g.ula...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. App Store isn't compatible with GPL license. Even more, it was accident with VLC already -- Apple simply removed this application from App Store due to license incompatibility. Markus Kasten wrote: Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- With best regards, Sergey I. Sharybin ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
hi. As far as I know, the GPL is *incompatible* with the terms of the Apple App Store. VLC was pulled because the GPL is incompatible with Apple's terms [1]. It is Apple who needs to liberalize their terms, not the FOSS developers. We must all respect the terms of the GPL, and encourage Apple to be more liberal with their terms. Given that Apple's Lion Operating System will be deployed through the App Store only, and given that Lion includes a substantial amount of GPL software, perhaps these changes are already afoot. Perhaps not. Thanks. have a day.yad jdpf [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-after-eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars On Jul 21, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Shaul Kedem wrote: Hi, As I understood, the VLC incident was because of the original authors of VLC not wanting their software to be in the App store, apple just followed the original copyright holder's request. As for the license, we need a lawyer for that :) On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Sergey I. Sharybin g.ula...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. App Store isn't compatible with GPL license. Even more, it was accident with VLC already -- Apple simply removed this application from App Store due to license incompatibility. Markus Kasten wrote: Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers -- With best regards, Sergey I. Sharybin ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
I might be wrong, but as I understood it the problem is that the GPL requires the distributor to also provide the source of the application. In the case of the App Store Apple is the distributor. But they have never thought that anyone would like to distribute source code through their system and I think they think it's not the right place for the source anyway. I wonder why it should not be enough to provide a link to the source in the description? After all the binary in the App Store would be the same as on blender.org (binary compare would match), so one can be sure it wasn't tampered with (if you really want to test that). But I haven't read the GPL or the App Store license. That's all just what I take from all the news articles about this incident. -panzi On 07/21/2011 06:01 PM, jonathan d p ferguson wrote: hi. As far as I know, the GPL is *incompatible* with the terms of the Apple App Store. VLC was pulled because the GPL is incompatible with Apple's terms [1]. It is Apple who needs to liberalize their terms, not the FOSS developers. We must all respect the terms of the GPL, and encourage Apple to be more liberal with their terms. Given that Apple's Lion Operating System will be deployed through the App Store only, and given that Lion includes a substantial amount of GPL software, perhaps these changes are already afoot. Perhaps not. Thanks. have a day.yad jdpf [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-after-eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars On Jul 21, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Shaul Kedem wrote: Hi, As I understood, the VLC incident was because of the original authors of VLC not wanting their software to be in the App store, apple just followed the original copyright holder's request. As for the license, we need a lawyer for that :) On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Sergey I. Sharybing.ula...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. App Store isn't compatible with GPL license. Even more, it was accident with VLC already -- Apple simply removed this application from App Store due to license incompatibility. Markus Kasten wrote: Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
If that is the problem then the solution would be to provide a link to the source, problem solved. There is no reason apple will object to that and there is a link to the developer anyway. Btw, It's debatable whether or not apple has actually any part here, in the sense meant in the GPL. The developer chooses to use the app store as means of distribution, like a DVD or steam or other pipelines, if the GPL meant to burden every link in the chain with taking on the GPL it shoots itself in the foot. What's next? we'll ask ISPs to provide the source code and attribution because the code flows through their servers? On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Mathias Panzenböck grosser.meister.mo...@gmx.net wrote: I might be wrong, but as I understood it the problem is that the GPL requires the distributor to also provide the source of the application. In the case of the App Store Apple is the distributor. But they have never thought that anyone would like to distribute source code through their system and I think they think it's not the right place for the source anyway. I wonder why it should not be enough to provide a link to the source in the description? After all the binary in the App Store would be the same as on blender.org (binary compare would match), so one can be sure it wasn't tampered with (if you really want to test that). But I haven't read the GPL or the App Store license. That's all just what I take from all the news articles about this incident. -panzi On 07/21/2011 06:01 PM, jonathan d p ferguson wrote: hi. As far as I know, the GPL is *incompatible* with the terms of the Apple App Store. VLC was pulled because the GPL is incompatible with Apple's terms [1]. It is Apple who needs to liberalize their terms, not the FOSS developers. We must all respect the terms of the GPL, and encourage Apple to be more liberal with their terms. Given that Apple's Lion Operating System will be deployed through the App Store only, and given that Lion includes a substantial amount of GPL software, perhaps these changes are already afoot. Perhaps not. Thanks. have a day.yad jdpf [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-after-eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars On Jul 21, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Shaul Kedem wrote: Hi, As I understood, the VLC incident was because of the original authors of VLC not wanting their software to be in the App store, apple just followed the original copyright holder's request. As for the license, we need a lawyer for that :) On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Sergey I. Sharybing.ula...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. App Store isn't compatible with GPL license. Even more, it was accident with VLC already -- Apple simply removed this application from App Store due to license incompatibility. Markus Kasten wrote: Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
I don't understand the purpose of Mac App Store. You can simply download .zip from the web and drag it on desktop. What can be simpler? On the other hand you need to get in iOS App Store to be on iPhone. There absolutely no reason why we must or want to be in Mac App Store. Mac App Store probably inherited long and tedieous review proccess. And even if Blender can pass it, there will be literally weeks of delay before updates. Look at Ubuntu Software Center. Blender is 2.49 there. Moreover, downloading from website, gives the feel of community. Users can discover wiki, video tutorials, gallery, forums which are undoubtedly major sources of learning and inspiration. Differently, App Store gives a feel of no community and no development engagement. Granted, Blender can easily be in top 20, but user base will be very pretty random. Many will complain why Blender doesn't do X and does Y differently. Most of those users will uninstall faster then they feel the potential and never try it again. Alex K On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Shaul Kedem shaul.ke...@gmail.com wrote: If that is the problem then the solution would be to provide a link to the source, problem solved. There is no reason apple will object to that and there is a link to the developer anyway. Btw, It's debatable whether or not apple has actually any part here, in the sense meant in the GPL. The developer chooses to use the app store as means of distribution, like a DVD or steam or other pipelines, if the GPL meant to burden every link in the chain with taking on the GPL it shoots itself in the foot. What's next? we'll ask ISPs to provide the source code and attribution because the code flows through their servers? On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Mathias Panzenböck grosser.meister.mo...@gmx.net wrote: I might be wrong, but as I understood it the problem is that the GPL requires the distributor to also provide the source of the application. In the case of the App Store Apple is the distributor. But they have never thought that anyone would like to distribute source code through their system and I think they think it's not the right place for the source anyway. I wonder why it should not be enough to provide a link to the source in the description? After all the binary in the App Store would be the same as on blender.org (binary compare would match), so one can be sure it wasn't tampered with (if you really want to test that). But I haven't read the GPL or the App Store license. That's all just what I take from all the news articles about this incident. -panzi On 07/21/2011 06:01 PM, jonathan d p ferguson wrote: hi. As far as I know, the GPL is *incompatible* with the terms of the Apple App Store. VLC was pulled because the GPL is incompatible with Apple's terms [1]. It is Apple who needs to liberalize their terms, not the FOSS developers. We must all respect the terms of the GPL, and encourage Apple to be more liberal with their terms. Given that Apple's Lion Operating System will be deployed through the App Store only, and given that Lion includes a substantial amount of GPL software, perhaps these changes are already afoot. Perhaps not. Thanks. have a day.yad jdpf [1] http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/01/vlc-for-ios-vanishes-2-months-after-eruption-of-gpl-dispute.ars On Jul 21, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Shaul Kedem wrote: Hi, As I understood, the VLC incident was because of the original authors of VLC not wanting their software to be in the App store, apple just followed the original copyright holder's request. As for the license, we need a lawyer for that :) On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Sergey I. Sharybing.ula...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. App Store isn't compatible with GPL license. Even more, it was accident with VLC already -- Apple simply removed this application from App Store due to license incompatibility. Markus Kasten wrote: Hello everyone. what about putting blender on the App Store (the one for Mac applications of course, not for iOS)? Blender could reach a lot more popularity. Markus K. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
From the Mac App Store Terms and conditions: Programs that don’t comply with Apple’s Human Interface Guidelines will not be accepted. Blender uses its own HIG. From the Adium Mailing list: In the current agreement for the App Store - on all platforms - there are several provisions which restrict distribution. These are incompatible with the GPL. If we were to submit Adium to the App Store, any contributor - which includes contributors to underlying libraries like libpurple, libglib, or libintl - could (1) sue us directly and (2) activate the deauthorization provision in the GPL to remove our right to use the code, both because we would have knowingly violated the GPL. This was checked with Karen Sandler, which is their legal representative. These are the 2 main reasons Blender can't use the Mac App Store. Of course the Blender Foundation can ask Apple but is a well known fact that Apple dislike the GPL, and i know at least that the ffmpeg/libav guys are pretty willing to fight anyone that uses their code in any way that breaks the GPL/LGPL part of their licensed code. Can of worms, anyone? Regards. J. ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
On 07/21/2011 10:48 PM, Alexandr Kuznetsov wrote: I don't understand the purpose of Mac App Store. You can simply download .zip from the web and drag it on desktop. What can be simpler? You could basically say the same about your favourite Linuxs package manager. Although I do not know if the App Store really provides all the features of a full blown package manager. I use Linux. On the other hand you need to get in iOS App Store to be on iPhone. There absolutely no reason why we must or want to be in Mac App Store. Mac App Store probably inherited long and tedieous review proccess. And even if Blender can pass it, there will be literally weeks of delay before updates. Look at Ubuntu Software Center. Blender is 2.49 there. Yeah, probably it would only be for publicity and would have no real use for blender users. -panzi ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
On 07/22/2011 12:54 AM, J. wrote: From the Mac App Store Terms and conditions: Programs that don’t comply with Apple’s Human Interface Guidelines will not be accepted. Blender uses its own HIG. From the Adium Mailing list: In the current agreement for the App Store - on all platforms - there are several provisions which restrict distribution. These are incompatible with the GPL. If we were to submit Adium to the App Store, any contributor - which includes contributors to underlying libraries like libpurple, libglib, or libintl - could (1) sue us directly and (2) activate the deauthorization provision in the GPL to remove our right to use the code, both because we would have knowingly violated the GPL. This was checked with Karen Sandler, which is their legal representative. These are the 2 main reasons Blender can't use the Mac App Store. Of course the Blender Foundation can ask Apple but is a well known fact that Apple dislike the GPL, and i know at least that the ffmpeg/libav guys are pretty willing to fight anyone that uses their code in any way that breaks the GPL/LGPL part of their licensed code. Can of worms, anyone? Regards. J. I don't understand: If Apple is seen as the distributor it would be Apple that violates the GPL, because it does not provide any source. If not, then the source is not needed to be in the App Store but just somehow reachable (link to blender.org) and there would be no violation at all. Anyway, yes, it seems to be not worth the trouble at all. -panzi ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
- Original Message - On 07/22/2011 12:54 AM, J. wrote: [...] From the Adium Mailing list: In the current agreement for the App Store - on all platforms - there are several provisions which restrict distribution. These are incompatible with the GPL. Right. The problem, as I understand it, is that section 6 of the GPLv2 states You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein, but the App Store imposes further restrictions. See: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement Cheers, Alex ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
So OSX uses no GPL software? none? On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Alex Fraser adfr...@vpac.org wrote: - Original Message - On 07/22/2011 12:54 AM, J. wrote: [...] From the Adium Mailing list: In the current agreement for the App Store - on all platforms - there are several provisions which restrict distribution. These are incompatible with the GPL. Right. The problem, as I understand it, is that section 6 of the GPLv2 states You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein, but the App Store imposes further restrictions. See: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement Cheers, Alex ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
Re: [Bf-committers] Blender on the Mac App Store
They use at least bash, wget and gcc. Lets tell GNU so they can sue them! :) I've got another idea (then I stop spamming here): Would it comply to App Store rules if one would write a native OS X application (conforming to HIG and BSD licensed) that is a Blender Downloader or Blender Installer or Blender Manager. This would not include blender, but would download and install blender. It would also provide a menu with options like put blender into dock and associate .blend files with blender etc. Maybe it could let you manage multiple blender installation. E.g. blender 2.49, blender 2.5x and a list of the latest GraphicAll builds. If I would use OS X I would write such a software just to see whether Apple rejects it. -panzi On 07/22/2011 03:19 AM, Shaul Kedem wrote: So OSX uses no GPL software? none? On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Alex Fraseradfr...@vpac.org wrote: - Original Message - On 07/22/2011 12:54 AM, J. wrote: [...] From the Adium Mailing list: In the current agreement for the App Store - on all platforms - there are several provisions which restrict distribution. These are incompatible with the GPL. Right. The problem, as I understand it, is that section 6 of the GPLv2 states You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein, but the App Store imposes further restrictions. See: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement Cheers, Alex ___ Bf-committers mailing list Bf-committers@blender.org http://lists.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-committers
