Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[nathan . artist]

Thanks! During all these years I had never tried unchecking "Show group 
counts". That's a helpful option. 



Christiaan Hofman writes: 

Especially for 2, you may want to collapse the smart groups whenever you close the file, so it won't be opened when you open the file. Or better, in your situation you may want to consider hiding the group counts in the Display prefs; BibDesk doesn.t bother calculating them when they are hidden, which would probably avoid the delay. 


Christiaan




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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Christiaan Hofman]

> On 3 Feb 2021, at 16:02, nathan.art...@softhome.net wrote:
> 
> I am a long-time BibDesk user with a large .bib file (30k+ entries, 140+ MB), 
> and I am familiar with a couple of factors that slow down BibDesk, although 
> they may not be related to Simon's situation. 
> (1) First, if I search for keywords in the quick search field, and I edit one 
> or more of the entries in the search results without clearing the search 
> first, there is a short delay (five seconds?) after editing the entries, 
> presumably because BibDesk is doing some recalculating. 
> (2) Second, I have a very long list of smart groups, and whenever I open the 
> large .bib file (which I don't do often because I always keep the file open 
> since BibDesk is my external brain) BibDesk locks up for several minutes 
> while it calculates so many smart groups for so many entries. After BibDesk 
> finishes doing that, I immediately collapse the list of smart groups (which 
> serve an important purpose but are rarely used) so that BibDesk does not 
> recalculate them every time I edit an entry, which would be tortuously slow. 
> There is another simple way of avoiding these slowdowns in practice: Whenever 
> I want to edit many entries that are in a list of search results or in a 
> smart group, I drag the contents of the search results or of the smart group 
> to one or more temporary static groups (I keep many empty static groups ready 
> for this purpose), and then I clear the search or collapse the list of smart 
> groups, and then I can edit the entries in the static groups without any 
> slowdown. 



Especially for 2, you may want to collapse the smart groups whenever you close 
the file, so it won’t be opened when you open the file. Or better, in your 
situation you may want to consider hiding the group counts in the Display 
prefs; BibDesk doesn’t bother calculating them when they are hidden, which 
would probably avoid the delay.

Christiaan

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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Fischlin Andreas]

Dear Simon,

Indeed this speaks rather against my feeling. Nevertheless, are those systems 
perhaps similarly configured? Therefore, do boot into the safe mode and see 
whether that the behavior that bothers you can be reproduced.

Andreas


ETH Zurich
Prof. em. Dr. Andreas Fischlin
IPCC Vice-Chair WGII
Systems Ecology - Institute of Biogeochemistry and Pollutant Dynamics
CHN E 24
Universitaetstrasse 16
8092 Zurich
SWITZERLAND

andreas.fisch...@env.ethz.ch
www.sysecol.ethz.ch/people/andreas.fischlin.html

+41 44 633-6090 phone
+41 44 633-1136 fax
+41 79 595-4050 mobile

 Make it as simple as possible, but distrust it!










On 03/02/2021, at 14:52, Simon Spiegel 
mailto:si...@simifilm.ch>> wrote:



On 3 Feb 2021, at 14:48, Fischlin Andreas 
mailto:andreas.fisch...@env.ethz.ch>> wrote:

Dear Simon,

This is now more of a feeling than anything else and I might be totally wrong. 
But what you describe now sounds to me like a particular system setup problem.

As a first step towards nailing it down, why do you not boot your Mac into safe 
mode (Start up your Mac in safe mode - Apple Support) and check out whether the 
problem is gone or not. If yes, this means it is your system setup and not 
BibDesk.

I see this on three different machines. And while none of them is brand new, I 
think they should all be capable of handling a database of this size.

Simon

--
Simon Spiegel
Maneggplatz 18
8041 Zürich

Telephon: ++41 44 451 5334
Mobophon: ++41 76 459 6039

http://www.simifilm.ch
http://www.utopia2016.ch

„This too shall pass.“ Tom Hanks



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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[nathan . artist]

I am a long-time BibDesk user with a large .bib file (30k+ entries, 140+ 
MB), and I am familiar with a couple of factors that slow down BibDesk, 
although they may not be related to Simon's situation. 

(1) First, if I search for keywords in the quick search field, and I edit 
one or more of the entries in the search results without clearing the search 
first, there is a short delay (five seconds?) after editing the entries, 
presumably because BibDesk is doing some recalculating. 

(2) Second, I have a very long list of smart groups, and whenever I open the 
large .bib file (which I don't do often because I always keep the file open 
since BibDesk is my external brain) BibDesk locks up for several minutes 
while it calculates so many smart groups for so many entries. After BibDesk 
finishes doing that, I immediately collapse the list of smart groups (which 
serve an important purpose but are rarely used) so that BibDesk does not 
recalculate them every time I edit an entry, which would be tortuously slow. 

There is another simple way of avoiding these slowdowns in practice: 
Whenever I want to edit many entries that are in a list of search results or 
in a smart group, I drag the contents of the search results or of the smart 
group to one or more temporary static groups (I keep many empty static 
groups ready for this purpose), and then I clear the search or collapse the 
list of smart groups, and then I can edit the entries in the static groups 
without any slowdown. 



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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Christiaan Hofman]

> On 3 Feb 2021, at 11:39, Simon Spiegel  wrote:
> 
> Dear Christiaan,
> 
> please find attached a sample (I hope I did this right).
> 
> It seems that the lags are somehow connected to switch between apps and/or 
> pasting content from other sources.
> 
> Thanks a lot 
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3 Feb 2021, at 11:14, Christiaan Hofman  wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry to hear thay. I can not think of anything that could cause this. And 
>> auto completion has not changed in quite a while. Perhaps you can take a 
>> sample while this is happening, and send it to me off list? 
>> 
>> Christiaan
> 
> --
> Simon Spiegel
> Maneggplatz 18
> 8041 Zürich
> 
> Telephon: ++41 44 451 5334
> Mobophon: ++41 76 459 6039
> 
> http://www.simifilm.ch
> http://www.utopia2016.ch
> 
> „Everybody needs money! That’s why they call it money!“ David Mamet
> 

It just seems to wait for event input. However, we don’t do much custom waiting 
for events, especially in this area. So it seems like the system somehow is 
slow to switch apps, which is more a system issue than something specific to 
BibDesk. Was BibDesk in app nap?

Christiaan

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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Simon Spiegel]

> On 3 Feb 2021, at 14:48, Fischlin Andreas  
> wrote:
> 
> Dear Simon,
> 
> This is now more of a feeling than anything else and I might be totally 
> wrong. But what you describe now sounds to me like a particular system setup 
> problem. 
> 
> As a first step towards nailing it down, why do you not boot your Mac into 
> safe mode (Start up your Mac in safe mode - Apple Support) and check out 
> whether the problem is gone or not. If yes, this means it is your system 
> setup and not BibDesk.

I see this on three different machines. And while none of them is brand new, I 
think they should all be capable of handling a database of this size.

Simon

--
Simon Spiegel
Maneggplatz 18
8041 Zürich

Telephon: ++41 44 451 5334
Mobophon: ++41 76 459 6039

http://www.simifilm.ch
http://www.utopia2016.ch

„This too shall pass.“ Tom Hanks



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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Fischlin Andreas]

Dear Simon,

This is now more of a feeling than anything else and I might be totally wrong. 
But what you describe now sounds to me like a particular system setup problem.

As a first step towards nailing it down, why do you not boot your Mac into safe 
mode (Start up your Mac in safe mode - Apple 
Support) 
and check out whether the problem is gone or not. If yes, this means it is your 
system setup and not BibDesk.

Regards,
Andreas


On 03/02/2021, at 13:48, Simon Spiegel 
mailto:si...@simifilm.ch>> wrote:



On 3 Feb 2021, at 12:00, Fischlin Andreas 
mailto:andreas.fisch...@env.ethz.ch>> wrote:

Dear all,

I almost daily work with a large bib file that contains currently 5347 entries, 
admitted this is only half the size of Simon's. I see no such obvious delay 
during regular work. I notice for certain AppleScripts, e.g. I have one 
searching for duplicates after an import, that has become a bit slow with the 
growing size of the bib file. But that is rather due to the nature of that 
particular algorithm, I have chosen to use than a fault of BibDesk.

I would look out for what activity triggers slow responses, what user events 
etc. I cannot confirm that BibDesk has noticeably slowed down in general only 
because of large bib files. I was first also worried about the growing size of 
my default bib file and was always positively surprised how fast BibDesk 
generally still behaves.

As always, once you try to nail it down, it suddenly stops. Seriously, it’s 
definitely a thing, but I don’t see a pattern. It seems to happen often when 
I’m in a different application, say a browser, copy something there and then 
switch to BibDesk to paste it into a field. Then I will often get considerable 
lags – though not always, and it also happens in other situations.

I am no programmer, so maybe this is all wrong, but it seems to me, although 
9000 entries is quite a number, it’s really nothing in terms of memory. The 
.bib file is something over 9mb, and according to Activity Monitor, BibDesk 
uses ~410mb of memory, which isn’t a lot compared to many other common programs.

Simon--
Simon Spiegel
Maneggplatz 18
8041 Zürich

Telephon: ++41 44 451 5334
Mobophon: ++41 76 459 6039

http://www.simifilm.ch
http://www.utopia2016.ch

„This too shall pass.“ Tom Hanks



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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Simon Spiegel]

> On 3 Feb 2021, at 12:00, Fischlin Andreas  
> wrote:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I almost daily work with a large bib file that contains currently 5347 
> entries, admitted this is only half the size of Simon's. I see no such 
> obvious delay during regular work. I notice for certain AppleScripts, e.g. I 
> have one searching for duplicates after an import, that has become a bit slow 
> with the growing size of the bib file. But that is rather due to the nature 
> of that particular algorithm, I have chosen to use than a fault of BibDesk.
> 
> I would look out for what activity triggers slow responses, what user events 
> etc. I cannot confirm that BibDesk has noticeably slowed down in general only 
> because of large bib files. I was first also worried about the growing size 
> of my default bib file and was always positively surprised how fast BibDesk 
> generally still behaves.

As always, once you try to nail it down, it suddenly stops. Seriously, it’s 
definitely a thing, but I don’t see a pattern. It seems to happen often when 
I’m in a different application, say a browser, copy something there and then 
switch to BibDesk to paste it into a field. Then I will often get considerable 
lags – though not always, and it also happens in other situations. 

I am no programmer, so maybe this is all wrong, but it seems to me, although 
9000 entries is quite a number, it’s really nothing in terms of memory. The 
.bib file is something over 9mb, and according to Activity Monitor, BibDesk 
uses ~410mb of memory, which isn’t a lot compared to many other common programs.

Simon--
Simon Spiegel
Maneggplatz 18
8041 Zürich

Telephon: ++41 44 451 5334
Mobophon: ++41 76 459 6039

http://www.simifilm.ch
http://www.utopia2016.ch

„This too shall pass.“ Tom Hanks



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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Fischlin Andreas]

Dear all,

I almost daily work with a large bib file that contains currently 5347 entries, 
admitted this is only half the size of Simon's. I see no such obvious delay 
during regular work. I notice for certain AppleScripts, e.g. I have one 
searching for duplicates after an import, that has become a bit slow with the 
growing size of the bib file. But that is rather due to the nature of that 
particular algorithm, I have chosen to use than a fault of BibDesk.

I would look out for what activity triggers slow responses, what user events 
etc. I cannot confirm that BibDesk has noticeably slowed down in general only 
because of large bib files. I was first also worried about the growing size of 
my default bib file and was always positively surprised how fast BibDesk 
generally still behaves.

Andreas


ETH Zurich
Prof. em. Dr. Andreas Fischlin
IPCC Vice-Chair WGII
Systems Ecology - Institute of Biogeochemistry and Pollutant Dynamics
CHN E 24
Universitaetstrasse 16
8092 Zurich
SWITZERLAND

andreas.fisch...@env.ethz.ch
www.sysecol.ethz.ch/people/andreas.fischlin.html

+41 44 633-6090 phone
+41 44 633-1136 fax
+41 79 595-4050 mobile

 Make it as simple as possible, but distrust it!










On 03/02/2021, at 09:38, Simon Spiegel 
mailto:si...@simifilm.ch>> wrote:

Hi everybody,

for quite some time now I’ve been experiencing considerably lags when editing 
entries in BibDesk, this is particularly noticeable in fields where BibDesk is 
suggesting autocompletion.

My .bib file has more than 9000 entries, maybe this is too much?

I am not sure when it started, whether it happened with the update t a new 
version or after reaching a certain number of entries. What I can say is that I 
see this on machines of quite different ages.

Any suggestions?

Simon

--
Simon Spiegel
Maneggplatz 18
8041 Zürich

Telephon: ++41 44 451 5334
Mobophon: ++41 76 459 6039

http://www.simifilm.ch
http://www.utopia2016.ch

„For there is always light / If only we’re brave enough to see it / If only 
we’re brave enough to be it.“ Amanda Gorman



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Re: [Bibdesk-users] BibDesk slowdowns

[Christiaan Hofman]

Sorry to hear thay. I can not think of anything that could cause this. And
auto completion has not changed in quite a while. Perhaps you can take a
sample while this is happening, and send it to me off list?

Christiaan
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