Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Update: Bob doesn't have to watch all address types he's advertising. When notifying Bob, Alice will pick one address type out of the ones Bob is advertising and include it in the notification. That way even if Bob's wallet accepts many address types, he still doesn't have to watch all of them for each Alice. The previous spec reads: > Alice then constructs a 72-byte OP_RETURN output whose value is set to > `BIP + notification + N_Alice` (`+` is concat) and sends it in a > transaction containing no other outputs ( to be replaced once a BIP > number is assigned). We can extended the payload to 73 bytes and define it as: `BIP + notification + N_Alice + address_type`, where `address_type` is a single byte containing the desired address type index (1 out of 16, limited by Bob's payment code). If Alice ever wants to start sending to a different address type, she can simply re-notify Bob and Bob will switch to a new address type in the case of Alice. Alfred ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi Damian, Which specific part of the proposal do you think affects the legibility of the blockchain and the fungibility of UTXOs? Please point out the relevant section so that we can address your concerns. Alfred --- Original Message --- On Sunday, July 3rd, 2022 at 3:17 PM, KING JAMES HRMH wrote: > Good Afternoon, > > In regard to Private Payments, the blockchain is indelible record and it > isn't a record unless it is legible so that someone could check the validity > of any UTXO and it is enough that Bitcoin is Fungible and the only reason > Bitcoin is Fungible is because it is a wallet that makes use of the > Blockchain so the concept is > NACK > > KING JAMES HRMH > Great British Empire > > Regards, > The Australian > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH) > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire > MR. Damian A. James Williamson > Professor > Wills > > et al. > > Willtech > www.willtech.com.au > www.go-overt.com > duigco.org DUIGCO API > and other projects > > m. 0487135719 > f. +61261470192 > > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this email > if misdelivered. > > ---___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 5:43 AM Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > I agree with your proposal to use bech32 instead of base58. It looks sound > to me and as you said, the standard would benefit from more compact QR > codes. The most important thing to get more compact QR codes is to not use lowercase letters, and certain other characters, as if you can avoid them the QRs will auto-compress. It happens that the core of bech32 works if all caps, and you are careful with the human readable portion. See https://github.com/BlockchainCommons/Research/blob/master/papers/bcr-2020-003-uri-binary-compatibility.md for more details, but a big offender is base64 which not only doesn’t auto-compress but also can trigger binary mode that almost doubled the size of the QR. We have a number of standards & libraries focused on bitcoin QRs, including support of animated QRs for things like PSBTs, but if you care about QR size you should take a look at the techniques we use our swift library https://github.com/BlockchainCommons/QRCodeGenerator which are also in https://www.nayuki.io/page/qr-code-generator-library. Basically both of these libraries support “optimal encoding using segments” that if they encounter a set of characters that must be encoded in binary (In particularly $ % * + / :) that would in most default platform QR implementations cause the entire QR to double in size. Instead will only encode the small segment as binary, letting the rest of the QR leverage auto-compression. If your are interested in our other Airgap QR and TorGap UR efforts, see our video from last year: https://youtu.be/RYgOFSdUqWY We have much more on the way, including NFC encrypted Airgap & crypto-request/response flows. I’d love to see proposals for various payment and invoice QRs that leverage these wallet interoperability standards we have been offering. Let us know if you are interested, or join discussions at https://github.com/BlockchainCommons/Airgapped-Wallet-Community — Christopher Allen, Blockchain Commons > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi Clark, Thanks for your input. I agree with your proposal to use bech32 instead of base58. It looks sound to me and as you said, the standard would benefit from more compact QR codes. The `pay1` prefix is fairly recognizable. > I don't see how this would work, and others have pointed out that the > cost of block space is itself an anti-spam measure. I agree. > A third-party service could offer to publish OP_RETURN notification > payloads in the blockchain for a fee, paid over Lightning Network. > This completely de-links Alice's notification from her wallet, while > accepting the less-known privacy implications of a Lightning payment. > The service would remain ignorant of Bob's identity in any event. Such > a service would also be incentivized to charge market rates for the > potential privacy boost and for block space. The manner of publishing or outsourcing notifications cannot be enforced by the standard but we can add this as a recommendation. We can also release such a service in tandem with the BIP in order to encourage its use. The fact that the service would use its own coins would be beneficial to notifiers since they wouldn't have to engage in coin control on their end. I'm not too familiar with the innerworkings of Lightning, but it is my understanding that a message can be embedded in each payment. The message in this case can be the OP_RETURN payload. That way both the payment and the notification payload are sent out in one go. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The downside is that this isn't as censorship resistant as direct notifications but that's probably not going to be a big problem in reality. If these services ever go down, users should still be able to notify from their own wallets. > Alternatively, the service publishes the block height along with the > notification data contained within that block. Light clients could > download relevant blocks over the p2p network and perform full > validation. This sounds better than requesting transaction data, both from the standpoint of simplicity and privacy. The danger is that the service drops notifications, either on purpose or by accident, eventually causing clients to miss notifications. Two possible solutions: a) the service publishes Merkle Trees b) each client subscribes to more than one service. Alfred ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Alfred, Thanks for the proposal. This is really interesting, especially the additional on-chain privacy improvements over BIP47: ephemeral notifier/sender keys and shielding of the sender key(s) against seizure of the recipient's wallet. > A payment code is encoded in base58check and the version byte produces "S" > for the first character. This is a bit under-specified, but let me bike-shed here and suggest going with a Bech32m encoding. We gain more compact QR codes as well as error detection/correction. Alternate proposal: - Bech32m human-readable part = "pay" - Data payload is [watched address type bytes (2), compressed pubkey (33)] Example: - Address type bytes = c000 - Pubkey 03b54543fbed9d17d9300b508c55769bc4c8385620626730b4d52e5f3e30d9a6c1 - Published payment code: pay1cqqq8d29g0a7m8ghmycqk5yv24mfh3xg8ptzqcn8xz6d2tjl8ccdnfkpjl7p84 > The owner of a code could simply demand that a notification transaction meets > some minimum miner fee or a multiple of some trailing average. I don't see how this would work, and others have pointed out that the cost of block space is itself an anti-spam measure. == Notification Service Idea == A third-party service could offer to publish OP_RETURN notification payloads in the blockchain for a fee, paid over Lightning Network. This completely de-links Alice's notification from her wallet, while accepting the less-known privacy implications of a Lightning payment. The service would remain ignorant of Bob's identity in any event. Such a service would also be incentivized to charge market rates for the potential privacy boost and for block space. == Data Service Idea == Another service could publish only the OP_RETURN data pertaining to this BIP, which is easy to obtain due to the clear tagging scheme. Light wallets would check in with this service on a regular basis, performing the ECDH filtering steps on each output. Upon further request, the service furnishes transaction proofs for the full transaction containing the OP_RETURN. Care would need to be taken to avoid leaking too much information to the service, and techniques such as using separate Tor circuits or requesting tx proofs on a bulk set of transactions could help obfuscate the exact transaction of interest. These concerns are similar to those found in BIP157 client-side block filtering (Neutrino filters). Alternatively, the service publishes the block height along with the notification data contained within that block. Light clients could download relevant blocks over the p2p network and perform full validation. -Clark On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 2:14 PM Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Hi, > > There have been attempts to create static payment codes that function as a > way for transacting parties to create "private" addresses, where private > stands for "known only to transacting parties". BIP47 was one such standard. > > The standard suffered from a number of problems: > > 1. The standard promised extensibility through versioning but it never used > that capability to follow innovations in the Bitcoin protocol. It was > designed around the idea that legacy p2pkh addresses would always be the > primary and only way to transact. As new standard script types started to > emerge (Segwit v0, Taproot), the creators dealt with the problem by stating > that implementing wallets should scan for all existing standard scripts. The > inability of payment codes to explicitly state which address types they > derive places a burden on more resource constrained wallets. > > 2. The standard relied on a notification mechanism in order to connect a > sender with a recipient, which included either offchain technology > (Bitmessage), or so called "notification addresses" which a) left a footprint > b) created toxic change. That type of footprint is particularly harmful > because it makes it obvious that a particular recipient is going to receive > private transactions. If the notifying party performs this process with coins > linked to its identity (i.e. tainted or non-anonymized inputs), it forever > becomes visible that Alice connected with Bob despite the fact that her > payment code was blinded. While future transactions and their amounts aren't > visible, this metadata makes it possible to build a social graph. > > 3. The standard was implemented only by an entity that disavowed the BIP > process and didn't wish to use it to keep the standard up to date. Further > updates did take place but only outside the BIP process, creating a lack of > clarity as to what the real specification is. Ultimately the standard was > abandoned. > > I propose to build on the idea of payment codes under a new BIP with the > following principal differences: > > 1. The new standard will allocate a 2-byte bitflag array that will signal > address/script types that the receiver is deriving. Since the vast majority > of scripts are p2pkh (47.3%) and p2wpkh (26.2%), bits 0 and 1 will be used > for
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 10:30:39PM +0200, Ruben Somsen via bitcoin-dev wrote: > >demand that a notification transaction meets some minimum miner fee > > Note that this mechanism is not safe against miners, as they can pay > themselves arbitrarily high fees with no downside. Block space is relatively expensive, so maybe it's enough that the spammer has to publish at all. You could also do a timelocked sacrifice with OP_CSV. -- https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi Bryan, Thanks for your input. >That's a neat trick. What about not using OP_RETURN at all, and just >publishing on a tor hidden service that other wallets check? Alice wouldn't >have to expose on-chain that she is a sender of a private payment. This can be done (Tor keys can even be derived from master keys) but it's an off-chain solution, not very different from Bitmessage notifications in BIP47. As Ruben said, it won't work in an offline regime. Alfred___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi Ruben, Good to see your input here. >I agree it's not as efficient as it could be, but how big is this problem in >practice? Expecting payments on more addresses doesn't seem like a huge >overhead. Or are you talking about the hassle of having to support spending >from all these address types? My worry is that once the number of standard scripts becomes significant, wallets will have to watch all of them. This could create a performance hit eventually, though I don't know what that would be in practice. Maybe someone else can offer more insight. It's possible to mitigate that using a tighter gap limit. But we still have the problem of wallets not supporting certain scripts. For example, Bob's wallet may not support wrapped segwit but Alice could accidentally send funds there assuming Bob can spend them. SP proposes to use Taproot-only (as we've been discussing elsewhere), but I still don't think it's the right solution to lock down the BIP to a single script type, for the sake of future proofing if nothing else. Having address type flags solves these issues at the expense having a couple of extra bytes. >but it does make it rather difficult to support light clients. That's correct. This can't take advantage of compact block filters. Doing so would require having a notification address again. The scanning scheme is lighter and a bit simpler to implement than the one proposed by SP but it still presumes a full node. >The basic idea is that everyone publishes a single pubkey on-chain, It even seems to me that Bob doesn't even have to publish his key on-chain unless he intends on sending funds. Only senders would have to do so, and pure recipients (if there would be any such entities) would just have to publish their codes off-chain (e.g. website donation address). The downside is that Alice now has to publish her pubkey on-chain, which creates a footprint. She's now a confirmed user of stealth addresses. She can mitigate that by publishing an ephemeral pubkey for each recipient, but this might spiral out of control fast if the standard gains wider acceptance. >Note that this mechanism is not safe against miners, as they can pay >themselves arbitrarily high fees with no downside. Good point. Perhaps the solution is to require an OP_RETURN burn instead. I thought it's better to benefit the ecosystem by sending coins back to miners, but burning is also possible. Alfred___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi Bryan, >just publishing on a tor hidden service that other wallets check The problem is that this data is critical to access the funds. By putting it on-chain you're guaranteeing that it's always available when you restore your funds from backup. Cheers, Ruben On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 10:21 PM Bryan Bishop via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 2:14 PM Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev < > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > >> 2. Notification transactions still exist but no longer leave a privacy >> footprint on the blockchain. Instead, a notification transaction is simply >> a single OP_RETURN containing a value that only Alice and Bob can >> calculate. If Alice's notification transaction uses UTXOs not associated >> with her identity, there is never a footprint showing that either her or >> Bob are using private payments. If Alice uses tainted coins, only she is >> exposed as a user of Private Payments but Bob still isn't. >> > > That's a neat trick. What about not using OP_RETURN at all, and just > publishing on a tor hidden service that other wallets check? Alice > wouldn't have to expose on-chain that she is a sender of a private payment. > > - Bryan > https://twitter.com/kanzure > ___ > bitcoin-dev mailing list > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev > ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi Alfred, Thanks for taking the time to write a proposal. >The inability of payment codes to explicitly state which address types they derive places a burden on more resource constrained wallets I agree it's not as efficient as it could be, but how big is this problem in practice? Expecting payments on more addresses doesn't seem like a huge overhead. Or are you talking about the hassle of having to support spending from all these address types? >a notification transaction is simply a single OP_RETURN containing a value that only Alice and Bob can calculate This seems to be the meat of the proposal. You're hiding the intended recipient, but in doing so you introduce a scanning requirement. Of course you only need to scan notification transactions, so it'll be much less heavy than Silent Payments*, but it does make it rather difficult to support light clients. If some degree of scanning is acceptable, then Robin Linus' scheme may be an interesting alternative: https://gist.github.com/RobinLinus/4e7467abaf0a0f8a521d5b512dca4833 The basic idea is that everyone publishes a single pubkey on-chain, and everyone derives a shared secret with everyone else's pubkey. It also requires "scanning", but the number of transactions will be lower as it's one tx per new pubkey as opposed to one tx per sender/recipient pair. This also means it uses far less block space. The main downside is that you have to watch as many incoming addresses as there are registered pubkeys, but this could be indexed relatively efficiently. Also not light client friendly, though. And then of course there's the recent BIP47 discussion: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-June/020549.html This proposes to outsource the publishing of the notification transaction in order to break the link (as well as reduce block space usage). There's no scanning, so this preserves light client support, but the downside here is that you now need to anonymously pay a third party (e.g. over LN). >demand that a notification transaction meets some minimum miner fee Note that this mechanism is not safe against miners, as they can pay themselves arbitrarily high fees with no downside. Hope this helps. Cheers, Ruben *Silent Payments: https://gist.github.com/RubenSomsen/c43b79517e7cb701ebf77eec6dbb46b8 On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 9:14 PM Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > Hi, > > There have been attempts to create static payment codes that function as a > way for transacting parties to create "private" addresses, where private > stands for "known only to transacting parties". BIP47 was one such standard. > > The standard suffered from a number of problems: > > 1. The standard promised extensibility through versioning but it never > used that capability to follow innovations in the Bitcoin protocol. It was > designed around the idea that legacy p2pkh addresses would always be the > primary and only way to transact. As new standard script types started to > emerge (Segwit v0, Taproot), the creators dealt with the problem by stating > that implementing wallets should scan for all existing standard scripts. > The inability of payment codes to explicitly state which address types they > derive places a burden on more resource constrained wallets. > > 2. The standard relied on a notification mechanism in order to connect a > sender with a recipient, which included either offchain technology > (Bitmessage), or so called "notification addresses" which a) left a > footprint b) created toxic change. That type of footprint is particularly > harmful because it makes it obvious that a particular recipient is going to > receive private transactions. If the notifying party performs this process > with coins linked to its identity (i.e. tainted or non-anonymized inputs), > it forever becomes visible that Alice connected with Bob despite the fact > that her payment code was blinded. While future transactions and their > amounts aren't visible, this metadata makes it possible to build a social > graph. > > 3. The standard was implemented only by an entity that disavowed the BIP > process and didn't wish to use it to keep the standard up to date. Further > updates did take place but only outside the BIP process, creating a lack of > clarity as to what the real specification is. Ultimately the standard was > abandoned. > > I propose to build on the idea of payment codes under a new BIP with the > following principal differences: > > 1. The new standard will allocate a 2-byte bitflag array that will signal > address/script types that the receiver is deriving. Since the vast majority > of scripts are p2pkh (47.3%) and p2wpkh (26.2%), bits 0 and 1 will be used > for those respectively. Bit 2 will be p2tr. The remaining 13 bits are > reserved for future standard script types. > > 2. Notification transactions still exist but no longer leave a privacy > footprint on the blockchain. Instead, a notification
Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP proposal] Private Payments
Hi, On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 2:14 PM Alfred Hodler via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > 2. Notification transactions still exist but no longer leave a privacy > footprint on the blockchain. Instead, a notification transaction is simply > a single OP_RETURN containing a value that only Alice and Bob can > calculate. If Alice's notification transaction uses UTXOs not associated > with her identity, there is never a footprint showing that either her or > Bob are using private payments. If Alice uses tainted coins, only she is > exposed as a user of Private Payments but Bob still isn't. > That's a neat trick. What about not using OP_RETURN at all, and just publishing on a tor hidden service that other wallets check? Alice wouldn't have to expose on-chain that she is a sender of a private payment. - Bryan https://twitter.com/kanzure ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
