[blackbelly] Ewe giving two separate births
Peg, Thanks for writing about your friend's Dorset. I have also heard from two other people that this unusual separation of birthing times can happen in sheep, in dogs and in humans as well. The great news this morning is that my ewe actually did deliver healthy, normal sized twin ewe lambs today at 7:00 a.m. They are quite lively and doing fine, and the mother seems to have a large udder and plenty of milk this time! I guess stranger things have happened, but this is pretty unusual! Her ram lamb was born on March 13, and the twin ewe lambs were born on April 10. Both were sired by the same ram. I think I mentioned we did a manual exam on March 15 to see if there was anything inside her. Good thing we didn't poke around too much then! Here's a question for everyone: Would I refer to this ewe's babies as a "single plus twins", or should I refer to them as "triplets"?? Mary Swindell At 06:02 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: >Message: 1 >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 16:43:15 -0700 (PDT) >From: Peg Haese KB9LIE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ewe Pregnant Twice? >To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Hi, Mary, friends of ours had a Dorset who lambed twice, 17 days or one >cycle apart. They knew both lambs were hers for sure. Both were >healthy. I have heard about that happening to other ewes also. Rare but >not impossible. > >Please keep us posted on the ewe's condition. > >Peg Haese in chilly SW Wisconsin > >--- Mary Swindell wrote: > > > Does anyone know if there is a chance that a ewe can lamb twice? Is > > it possible that she could have maintained a pregnancy with other > > lambs after birthing one fully developed lamb early? The first lamb > > was born March 13, so this is almost a month later. > Mary Swindell Bellwether Farm 815 Bell Hill Road Cobden, IL 62920 (618) 893-4568 (home) (618) 453-1697 (work) (618) 967-5046 (cell) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.bellwetherfarm.com ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ewe Pregnant Twice?
If I recall, Sheep have two "horns" to the uterus. And like many animals with such an arrangement, one can maintain a pregnancy in one horn while 'expelling' a pregnancy in another. Nature's redundancy can be helpfull this way. Many rabbit breeders I communicate with indicate that the need to remove the doe immediate after breeding to a buck is to help prevent two pregnancies from occurring within such a short period of time, that the labor from the first pregnancy causes a premature birth of the later pregnancy! Animals that 'litter' are especially prone to multiple age birthings- youmay be able to find dog breeders that can tell you tales of such litters-- where part of the litter was definitely 'older' than the rest. Stimulation ovulators also have the ability to develop pregnancies that are of differing ages when exposed to males with strong drives. Also, sometimes, in mammals with one "room" in the uterus, a "twin" will be born prematurely/aborted due to some injury or defect, while the healthier one is retained. My younger brother was a retained twin-- Terry W --- Mary Swindell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone know if there is a chance that a ewe can lamb twice? Is > it possible that she could have maintained a pregnancy with other > lambs after birthing one fully developed lamb early? The first lamb > was born March 13, so this is almost a month later. Honestly I would > call the vet, but there is nothing here to make me think this ewe is > unhealthy. I am completely stumped. > > Mary Swindell > > > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Ewe giving two separate births
Triplets-- if they have the same 'conception' date' Terry W --- Mary Swindell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peg, > > Thanks for writing about your friend's Dorset. I have also heard > from two other people that this unusual separation of birthing times > can happen in sheep, in dogs and in humans as well. > > The great news this morning is that my ewe actually did deliver > healthy, normal sized twin ewe lambs today at 7:00 a.m. They are > quite lively and doing fine, and the mother seems to have a large > udder and plenty of milk this time! I guess stranger things have > happened, but this is pretty unusual! Her ram lamb was born on March > 13, and the twin ewe lambs were born on April 10. Both were sired by > the same ram. > > I think I mentioned we did a manual exam on March 15 to see if there > was anything inside her. Good thing we didn't poke around too much then! > > Here's a question for everyone: Would I refer to this ewe's babies > as a "single plus twins", or should I refer to them as "triplets"?? > > Mary Swindell > > > At 06:02 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: > > >Message: 1 > >Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 16:43:15 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Peg Haese KB9LIE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Ewe Pregnant Twice? > >To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info > >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > >Hi, Mary, friends of ours had a Dorset who lambed twice, 17 days or one > >cycle apart. They knew both lambs were hers for sure. Both were > >healthy. I have heard about that happening to other ewes also. Rare but > >not impossible. > > > >Please keep us posted on the ewe's condition. > > > >Peg Haese in chilly SW Wisconsin > > > >--- Mary Swindell wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know if there is a chance that a ewe can lamb twice? Is > > > it possible that she could have maintained a pregnancy with other > > > lambs after birthing one fully developed lamb early? The first lamb > > > was born March 13, so this is almost a month later. > > > > Mary Swindell > Bellwether Farm > 815 Bell Hill Road > Cobden, IL 62920 > (618) 893-4568 (home) > (618) 453-1697 (work) > (618) 967-5046 (cell) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.bellwetherfarm.com > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] another unusual lambing event
In the "boy aren't we having some weird stuff happening at lambing" category, last night I called the vet out ($165) for what I expected to be delivery of a dead lamb. She had placenta and a shrivelled water bag hanging from her vulva, and because there was no swelling or discharge, I figured the cervix hadn't dilated. I have had zero positive experience pulling lambs, live or dead, hence my call to the vet. (Luckily, I don't have this happen very often.) What he found was a 30-day-old mummified lamb fetus in the vagina. No infection, just a lot of cream-colored goo that contained no bateriaphages or other harmful agents. He was unable to even get close to the cervix, so we don't know if it was dilated or not, or if there were other lambs in the uterus (time will tell). He and two other vets agreed that it was entirely coincidental that she expelled this fetus at the time she normally would have had a regular lambing. In other words, he does not believe there was any hormonal release by the "fetus" that could signal the uterus to go into labor. Both uterine horns were still attached to the fetus, so I'll assume he's correct in his "coincidence" diagnosis. I find it odd that a ewe would retain a 30-day-old fetus throughout a normal 152-day gestation and "coincidentally" deliver it on her due day. The ewe is fine, and showing no post-partum behavior or other distress. Like Mary's experience, some things are just really "odd." Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] another unusual lambing event
Maybe it's the "odd" weather we've been having..? Terry W --- Carol Elkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Like Mary's experience, some things are just really "odd." > > Carol We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Do we have to have a ram?
We are very new to the sheep business & have one dumb question. Do we have to keep a ram? Can we borrow or rent a ram? or Does anyone do AI? Logistically it just seems tough to keep the old boy separate from everyone else. Doesn't he get lonely? Thanks! Eileen The Pacific Northwest ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Do we have to have a ram?
Eileen, Yes, you could probably borrow a ram, though don't know how easy it would be to find one of the appropriate breed (American Blackbelly, I assume) in your region. AI is not easily done in sheep because they are so small, so this is not routine. And yes, a ram will be lonely if by himself, so should not be kept alone. If he is your only ram, you could just keep him in with the ewes all the time. If you do this, you may need to wean and separate your ewe lambs from the flock when they are about 3 mos old so they don't get bred until 5-6 mos of age. To all of you out there who keep a ram with the flock all the time - do you bother to separate the young ewe lambs so they aren't bred until 5-6 months? Or have you found that they don't get bred until about then anyway, so it is not a problem? I know that the ram lambs can be fertile as early as 3 mos of age, but not sure about the ewe lambs. Your other option is to have a wether (castrated ram) to keep the ram company when he is not with the girls. Stephanie Parrish Westminster, SC On Apr 10, 2007, at 10:01 PM, Chris & Eileen wrote: > We are very new to the sheep business & have one dumb question. Do we > have to keep a ram? Can we borrow or rent a ram? or Does anyone do AI? > Logistically it just seems tough to keep the old boy separate from > everyone else. Doesn't he get lonely? > Thanks! > Eileen > The Pacific Northwest > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Do we have to have a ram?
Hi Eileen, If you have access to a ram you can borrow or rent, and you are confident that the ram has no diseases that could infect your ewes, then of course you don't need a ram. In such a case, it would be important that you know the genetics of the ram you obtain and the owner of the ram should be willing to show you health records, pedigree information, and anything else to increase your confidence that the ram's genetics will benefit your flock. Artificial insemination (AI) in sheep is a very tricky business. For goats, it is a simple vaginal procedure that results in an acceptable insemination rate. In sheep, however, the vaginal method simply does not work because the convoluted folds in the ewe's vagina prevent the semen from reaching the uterus. Therefore, the better method is surgical laparoscopy in which the ewe is anesthetized and a tiny incision is made in her uterus and the semen implanted directly using a laparascope. The success rate is better, but the cost of the procedure is extremely high. There are only a few technicians trained in the procedure throughout the U.S. and they charge room board, and travel expenses in addition to the costs of the procedure. Several years ago, I estimated that to do AI on my dozen ewes, it would cost $4000, not including the semen. You are wise to realize that you cannot keep a ram by himself. Some folks will put a wether in with the ram for company (I did that for several years). Sheep are very stressed when kept without company of other sheep. Some folks let the ram run with the ewes all the time, but that means you have no way to control when the ewes are bred, and some rams will harm lambs. So yes, if you can find a good ram to borrow or rent, go for it. If you already have a ram, perhaps you can sell him to someone who will let you bring him back every once in awhile to breed your ewes. Carol At 08:01 PM 4/10/2007, you wrote: >Do we have to keep a ram? Can we borrow or rent a ram? or Does >anyone do AI? Logistically it just seems tough to keep the old boy >separate from everyone else. Doesn't he get lonely? Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Do we have to have a ram?
I keep my ram with the ewes year-round, but I imagine you could rent one if someone fairly close by is willing. I wouldn't keep a ram by himself though. I have read where some on this list keep their ram with a couple of wethers to keep him company while he is separated from the ewes. That would work also. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris & Eileen Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:02 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [blackbelly] Do we have to have a ram? We are very new to the sheep business & have one dumb question. Do we have to keep a ram? Can we borrow or rent a ram? or Does anyone do AI? Logistically it just seems tough to keep the old boy separate from everyone else. Doesn't he get lonely? Thanks! Eileen The Pacific Northwest ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
