Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
This might back up the info I have heard regarding a large ruminant guard animal. Have only one. It is then forced to bond with the flock. Some people think having two or three donkeys or llamas will cause them to herd together and ignore the flock. But my goat breeder lady I spoke of has several llamas. Not sure if she is just plain lucky so far... Thanks for the feedback on the horned rams. h, more to think about. also, I am thinking of buying a wildlife/scouting night camera. They can get pricey, but I think I'll know what I need to know for $150 or less. _MWS On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 5:01 PM, wrote: > Hi Michael, > > We have had llamas for the last 3 years and they have done next to nothing > to deter the coyotes. We currently have two gelding llamas in a bachelor ram > pen, 3 rams, there were four rams but coyotes got in last August and killed > and completely ate one of them. Full grown, very healthy ram. The coyotes > have gotten smart as far as attacking the rams, they grab them from behind > because they must have learned it hurts if they attack the rams from the > front - getting head-butted. We also acquired 2 female donkeys in December, > a pregnant female and her yearling daughter. The yearling went after the new > lambs and also attacked two of the yearling lambs. The yearling ram that she > had down ended up dying from his internal injuries about a week later. The > pregnant female donkey had her baby about 7 weeks ago and we want to put the > newbie and her mom in the pen that has experienced the most attacks. Being > raised with the livestock makes them less likely to treat them as some kind > of a threat. Have also been told, and fully believe, that regardless if you > go with llama (females are the best guardians, gelded males next, intact > males aren't good) or donkey (again, females are better than males) you > should go with a single animal. They are herd animals too, so if you have > more than one of their species they will want to stick together rather than > protect the sheep. Solo, they are forced to consider the sheep as their > herd. > > Carol, I had a problem with mountain lion (cougar) last year and in doing > tons of research found that the only real fencing that will keep them out > needs to be at least 10 feet high. In hindsight, we are wondering if that is > what came in at the end of January last year and killed and completely ate > four of our adult rams in one night, all in the same bachelor pen. > Picked-clean skeletons and almost no fur left. Thought coyotes, but after > discussing with several trappers and hunters they are leaning toward > mountain lion on that one. Hadn't considered mountain lion problem at that > point in time. Physically saw one last June at 1:00 in the afternoon trying > to cull one of the sheep for its victim. It cleared our five-foot fence > without a problem. > > We now lock up all of our sheep every night, chickens too, in pens within > the pens and have had no night kills. Unfortunately the coyotes have figured > this out and they come in for day kills. Had a week-old lamb kidnapped from > the pasture, in the trees, Friday. Also, our sheep don't always hang out > together, they'll break up into smaller groups during the day, so I guess > we'll see how effective the donkey(s) will be. They can't stay with > everyone, especially if there are 3 or 4 groups out there. > > Sounds like a single donkey would be your best bet. Look for one that > already has the guarding concept down, or get a very young one and pen up > her and the sheep next to each other (fence between them) for about two > weeks so she understands that these are her new friends. > > Good luck! > > Elaine ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
Hi Michael, We have had llamas for the last 3 years and they have done next to nothing to deter the coyotes. We currently have two gelding llamas in a bachelor ram pen, 3 rams, there were four rams but coyotes got in last August and killed and completely ate one of them. Full grown, very healthy ram. The coyotes have gotten smart as far as attacking the rams, they grab them from behind because they must have learned it hurts if they attack the rams from the front - getting head-butted. We also acquired 2 female donkeys in December, a pregnant female and her yearling daughter. The yearling went after the new lambs and also attacked two of the yearling lambs. The yearling ram that she had down ended up dying from his internal injuries about a week later. The pregnant female donkey had her baby about 7 weeks ago and we want to put the newbie and her mom in the pen that has experienced the most attacks. Being raised with the livestock makes them less likely to treat them as some kind of a threat. Have also been told, and fully believe, that regardless if you go with llama (females are the best guardians, gelded males next, intact males aren't good) or donkey (again, females are better than males) you should go with a single animal. They are herd animals too, so if you have more than one of their species they will want to stick together rather than protect the sheep. Solo, they are forced to consider the sheep as their herd. Carol, I had a problem with mountain lion (cougar) last year and in doing tons of research found that the only real fencing that will keep them out needs to be at least 10 feet high. In hindsight, we are wondering if that is what came in at the end of January last year and killed and completely ate four of our adult rams in one night, all in the same bachelor pen. Picked-clean skeletons and almost no fur left. Thought coyotes, but after discussing with several trappers and hunters they are leaning toward mountain lion on that one. Hadn't considered mountain lion problem at that point in time. Physically saw one last June at 1:00 in the afternoon trying to cull one of the sheep for its victim. It cleared our five-foot fence without a problem. We now lock up all of our sheep every night, chickens too, in pens within the pens and have had no night kills. Unfortunately the coyotes have figured this out and they come in for day kills. Had a week-old lamb kidnapped from the pasture, in the trees, Friday. Also, our sheep don't always hang out together, they'll break up into smaller groups during the day, so I guess we'll see how effective the donkey(s) will be. They can't stay with everyone, especially if there are 3 or 4 groups out there. Sounds like a single donkey would be your best bet. Look for one that already has the guarding concept down, or get a very young one and pen up her and the sheep next to each other (fence between them) for about two weeks so she understands that these are her new friends. Good luck! Elaine ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
I have a pasture with only horned intact AB rams. Do they really need a guard animal the way the ewes and Pygmy goats do? Michael W. Smith On Jun 6, 2013, at 6:50 PM, "rodnas...@gmail.com" wrote: > Carol this is Rod from Texas, > The way I keep my black belly sheep safe because I have coyotes and silver > foxes. I got me and Jerusalem donkey guard donkey that is. Ever since then I > have not lost one Lamb, Ram, or ewe. It eats the same thing my sheep eat. You > can't separate him from my sheep he gets mad starts Bellari. It was the best > hundred dollar investment I ever made. > > > LLRB > HotRod 3% > IV Corps TX > ICVMC > > > - Reply message - > From: "Carol Elkins" > To: > Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else > Date: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:35 pm > > > Michael, in 2008 I had a cougar AND a pack of coyotes kill and eat > five 90-lb ram lambs in one night. All that was left when I found > them the next morning were rib cages, five stomachs (drug away from > the carcasses), and a few testicles. The cat had gone over the fence; > the coyotes dug under. During the two months that I waited to get a > couple of guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees/Anatolian crosses), I lived > under siege and patrolled the pastures a couple of times every night > with a shotgun. > > The cat came back two weeks later (apparently that is their regular > revisiting interval) and killed one of my ewe lambs. I interrupted > her at 2AM and watched her jump a 6-ft chainlink fence. She didn't > climb up it; she jumped it. I had 4-ft field fencing around all of my > paddocks. It stopped nothing until I ran a strand of electric wire > along the top. I also put railroad ties along the bottom, inside the > fence to discourage digging. And during that time, I also locked the > sheep behind bars at night; every opening to their sheds had hog > panel wired across it. > > The minute the guardian dogs arrived, the terror stopped. I've slept > well every night since them. Because you live in a populated > neighborhood, LGDs can create problems with their barking, so that > may not be an option for you, although you mentioned a dog sleeping > with the sheep. Perhaps get another dog or a better dog? If the dog > makes its presence known, generally the predators will stay away > because the risk of their being injured is too great. > > I know how if feels to discover the remains of your flock without > having heard a peep in the night. I'm sorry that happened to you. > > Carol > > At 11:17 PM 6/4/2013, you wrote: >> Or, was it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was >> dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine >> any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again, >> there appeared to be no blood on it at all. > > Carol Elkins > Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep > (no shear, no dock, no fuss) > Pueblo, Colorado > http://www.critterhaven.biz > > ___ > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info > ___ > This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
