Re: [Blackbelly] Question on copper
Hi Oneta, Copper is an accumulative poison to sheep. Sheep need copper but they use it so slowly that their nutritive needs are usually met through their environment. Other minerals also can bind the copper making it less dangerous to the sheep. This complex relationship makes a 10ppm copper statement on feed pretty much useless without an all encompassing assessment of the sheep's environment. I have read that a sheep needs around 5ppm copper in its diet per day. I do not remember the source of this information. Again, this dietary copper is normally met through their common forage consumption. Copper poison in sheep typically presents itself as a sudden death following a stressful situation. The copper that has accumulated in the liver over a period of time for some reason is suddenly released killing the sheep. I do believe the Blackbelly sheep tolerance for copper is much higher than other breeds. I would love to see a scientific study confirming this though. I sure wish there was an easy test to determine the right amount of copper for our Blackbelly sheep. The only test I know of is to send the liver in for analysis at a laboratory. I would prefer a test that did not require killing the patient! Mark Wintermute Subject: [Blackbelly] Question on copper I have heard and read so many things I have a question. I am looking at changing my horse feed and it never fails the sheep eat thiers then run to the horses and the horses let them eat with them. The copper in the horse feed i am looking at is 10ppm. What is to much for our hair sheep. I can not find anything 100%. I find it depends on the breed, the age, etc. I am in OK so we have never had copper issues but you never know. Appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks. Oneta and The Gang www.johnsonquarterhorses.com Don't tell GOD what to do, just report for duty! ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Question about noisy lamb
What can I do to settle him? Should he have more sheep companions? Is this something that will pass? time will help. When we first got our two bottle-fed weathered Pygmy goats, it was their first time away from home and they screamed like crazy for about a week before they settled down some. If the door squeaked, if we opened a window, they would start all up again, thinking we were coming out. And being with them would comfort them. We did not even bottle-feed them ourselves, they just knew we were the only ones who looked like we were in charge. My Marley (intact AB ram bottle baby we got later) was fine with the two goats until he started to mature and I knew it was time to separate him from those two. He then, even though he had company on the other side of the fence would scream and bleat even worse than them. (gawd he has a horrible voice) I bought him a coupla ewes, knowing we'd breed and he was quiet, for the most part. He will still come to the fence and bellow a bit, to get our attention. He just likes us. Now, we have a new bottle-baby goat out there with everyone and she screams when she hears a hinge squeak, thinking it's bottle time, so... it's happening all over again :-) -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Question about noisy lamb
He almost sounds like a bottle fed baby, the reason I say that is because they are more friendly in the beginning with a person than one that has not been. We have fed three babies now and they always want us around them. Our oldest one are is still the first one to come to you. we are feeding one right now. and little ram ( Babe) we just took him this week and had him banded. I would think after a little time he will clam down. Your presents is calming for him, he thinks that your is momma. When you leave and he can't see you he is calling for his momma to come console him. I wouldn't take anything for our babies that we have bottle feed. I tease my husband about our babies, when they see him it sounds just like they are standing there at the fence hollowing dad...its so funny. Hi, I hope someone can help out with some advice. We purchased a 3.5 month old blackbelly ram lamb a week ago at auction because we fell madly in love with him. (Please don't beat me over the head...I know we're nuts.) He's amazingly affectionate (now) and we're having our vet surgically castrate him. At present, his only companion is a young nigerian dwarf goat and he doesn't seem too interested. Instead, he seems to be interested in me...all the time. He cries A LOT but settles down when I'm near him. If I'm within several feet, he goes about his business happily. If I'm away, or in the house, or with the horses, he bleats like crazy. What can I do to settle him? Should he have more sheep companions? Is this something that will pass? ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Question about noisy lamb
Hi, I hope someone can help out with some advice. We purchased a 3.5 month old blackbelly ram lamb a week ago at auction because we fell madly in love with him. (Please don't beat me over the head...I know we're nuts.) He's amazingly affectionate (now) and we're having our vet surgically castrate him. At present, his only companion is a young nigerian dwarf goat and he doesn't seem too interested. Instead, he seems to be interested in me...all the time. He cries A LOT but settles down when I'm near him. If I'm within several feet, he goes about his business happily. If I'm away, or in the house, or with the horses, he bleats like crazy. What can I do to settle him? Should he have more sheep companions? Is this something that will pass? ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Question about noisy lamb
Nichole, Welcome, to the world of blackbellies. Your new baby ram might have been weaned the day you purchased him, he may have even been bottle fed...which means he's naturally going to identify with you as his new Mom! Do you know his background?? Is he eating quality hay and drinking water?? Does he have access to sheep minerals and baking soda?? Make sure he's not hungry. Castrating him is a great idea. I raised my first ram just like yours. All on his own from 4 mos old in the fall until the following spring when we acquired ewes. He had the best temperament and never became too dominant which can be a problem with single rams, so be firm with your little guy and don't let him start any bad habits. If you want him to be a pet guy...don't get him any new sheep companions for a month or so. If you don't care...a couple of young sheep will keep him content now. Let us know how he does and good luck with him. Beth in OR - Original Message - From: nichole wunduke nmwund...@yahoo.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: [Blackbelly] Question about noisy lamb Hi, I hope someone can help out with some advice. We purchased a 3.5 month old blackbelly ram lamb a week ago at auction because we fell madly in love with him. (Please don't beat me over the head...I know we're nuts.) He's amazingly affectionate (now) and we're having our vet surgically castrate him. At present, his only companion is a young nigerian dwarf goat and he doesn't seem too interested. Instead, he seems to be interested in me...all the time. He cries A LOT but settles down when I'm near him. If I'm within several feet, he goes about his business happily. If I'm away, or in the house, or with the horses, he bleats like crazy. What can I do to settle him? Should he have more sheep companions? Is this something that will pass? ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Question about Bam- Bams diet
Could you share with us exactly what and how much solid food you are feeding Bam- Bam daily? Also how much time on fresh grass you have him on would be helpful. Dayna Denmark Half Ass Acres ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Question about best way to induce belching
What products and techniques work the best to get some belching going in an animal? Dayna Denmark Half Ass Acres ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Question about best way to induce belching
I've tubed baking soda and water before when our goats needed immediate help. If it's not an emergency, I offer up, free choice, both loose baking soda and minerals. The goats and sheep seem to know when and how much they need. -Renee From: day...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:36:33 -0800 Subject: [Blackbelly] Question about best way to induce belching What products and techniques work the best to get some belching going in an animal? Dayna Denmark Half Ass Acres ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info _ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Question about best way to induce belching
If you are trying to correct a frothy bloat, a surfactant is needed. I have used about 1/4 teaspoon of Palmolive green ( the old stuff) in a pint of water through a stomach tube. You will see relief in a few minutes. Cecil in OKla Paul Renee Bailey wrote: I've tubed baking soda and water before when our goats needed immediate help. If it's not an emergency, I offer up, free choice, both loose baking soda and minerals. The goats and sheep seem to know when and how much they need. -Renee From: day...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 10:36:33 -0800 Subject: [Blackbelly] Question about best way to induce belching What products and techniques work the best to get some belching going in an animal? Dayna Denmark Half Ass Acres ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info _ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Question about old age behavior in sheep
Oops, I hit send too soon. Dayna, Where are you located and what is your weather like now?? We almost lost our old Julie...she was sent to us in with 5 other ewes...with the promise to keep the old gal til she died. We are pretty sure she is 15 this year. She started to act like the sheep you describe...separate from the flock...not eating, lethargic. When the weather got cold...we put a dog blanket on her as she didn't have any body fat at all. She loved it. Also, we separated her at feeding time and fed her 14% sweet feed with probiotic powder. She started to eat her grass hay and she slowly improved and made it through the winter. She surprised us when she birthed a beautiful baby ewe this early spring. She's still doing well...but I will start putting her blanket on soon as it's getting cold at night. So...I know sheep can live into their teens. I think you are doing the right things for your ewe. If it's rainy and cold...keep her in and put a blanky on her. If she will eat...try some sweetfeed type of grain that she'll eat and add some probiotic powder to help with digestion. Nutradrench is very good, so is soaked sugar beet. Good luck with her. Beth in central OR - Original Message - From: Dayna Denmark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 4:46 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Question about old age behavior in sheep I am wondering if any of you have experienced a death of an animal due to old age. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] QUESTION AND HELP
Sounds like it could be they need more selenium. With all your rain the natural selenium would be depleated from the forage. Try putting out a mineral block and see if that helps. Also with the deep mud the small gland between the toes in the front of the hoof could be blocked. Hose off the foot and squeeze the gland and see if any waxy blob comes out. A squirt of hoof and heel is good to put on their feet also.It acts as a disinfectant. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Question about minerals
Could anyone tell me what mineral sheep are after when they girdle a tree? All my madrone trees were the choice this year. I got them wrapped with wire today but it looks like two trees are dead. Why do they do it some years and not others?? Dayna ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question
Sue, sounds like your little guy put his neck out of adjustment-- Misaligned vertebrae will cause a 'bulge' like that If you can find a veterninary Chiropractor, you may be able to get it put back into position, and make the fella more comfy. meanwhile, I beleive baking sodA is recommended by a lot of sheep people as a means to prevent something called Frothy Bloat-- Terry W Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question
Good question. I looked at a few sheep feed labels that the kids had saved and it shows the addition of Calcium Carbonate. I don't see Calcium Bicarbonate though, and I don't really know the difference. Maybe someone else does? I'm curious I know that sheep should maintain a Calcium/Phosporus ratio of 2:1. Typically forage is higher in CA and lower in P, while concentrates are lower in CA and higher in P. That must be why calcium is added to feed concentrates. I also looked at a couple sheep health sites they mention the addition of free choice Limestone (Calcium Carbonate) as a prevention to some ailments. I've included the addresses to those sites below. http://www.case-agworld.com/cAw.LU.nutr.html http://u-s-s-a.org/urinarycalculi.htm *** Thanks for the input. We did put baking soda in the feed for the cow but we were told to have the elevator who makes up our feed to put in the calcium bicarbonate. I wanted to know if the calcium would harm the sheep. Sue Miller _ Invite your Hotmail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp007001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=createwx_url=/friends.aspxmkt=en-us ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about ticks
You could dust her with diatomaceous earth, or boric acid. Both should be safe. I don't know about the flea collar, they often don't work well for dogs. Also, having chickens and/or guineas running around should lower the tick count considerably. If she is inherently more susceptible to ticks, this will probably be an ongoing problem. It might even manifest itself in her own lambs, so culling might be your best option. Julian At 10:30 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote: Hello all, I have a lamb with a somewhat sparce long hair coat that has had three ticks on her that I had to remove with a tick puller. These have been full size ticks not sheep keds. Two were by her mouth and one was on her neck. I was wondering if any of you have tried or considered trying a flea/ tick collar made for cats and dogs? Any idea if these are safe to use on sheep? Any recomendations for products that repel ticks? Any really good natural treatments?? Thanks, Dayna ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Question about ticks
Hello all, I have a lamb with a somewhat sparce long hair coat that has had three ticks on her that I had to remove with a tick puller. These have been full size ticks not sheep keds. Two were by her mouth and one was on her neck. I was wondering if any of you have tried or considered trying a flea/ tick collar made for cats and dogs? Any idea if these are safe to use on sheep? Any recomendations for products that repel ticks? Any really good natural treatments?? Thanks, Dayna ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about weaning
We do 8 to 12 weeks with a weight of 25 pounds. We feel we spoil our bottle babies. We don't want to lose the money and time invested in them by weaning early. Make sure they are eating grass, hay and grain well before weaning. When we do wean it is cold turkey no more milk. They yell for several days when they see you but then it is over with. Mark -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dayna Denmark Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 11:33 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [blackbelly] Question about weaning For those of you experienced with bottle lambs what is the best way to wean? Do you do it gradually or just stop all at once? Do you wean based on age alone or do you do it based on weight? I'm not quite at weaning weight because she is small for her age. The packaging on the milk replacer I use says 30 days or 30 pounds for weaning. We are at 50 days and 20 pounds as of today. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about weaning
Thank you for your quick response. I will give her more time on the bottle. She eats hay and dry cob with gusto and grazes best when I'm not around to distract her. She shows no interest in the treats I use to bribe everyone into a smaller pen at night. ( Apples, carrots, honey nut cheerios). See you aren't the only one who spoils your sheep! Thanks again. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stages ofgrowth
About 5 years ago I castrated 7 rams over 4 years old with a Callicrate bander. It worked great. The main problem is caused by not getting the band far enough down on the scrotum. If it is placed too high, then there is not enough loose skin to heal the wound and you wind up with a large hole in the belly to heal. It is better to squeeze the testicle in the scrotumn to ensure getting far enough down than to go too high. I have used calf banders on sheep, with no ill effects. Technique is the main component of success with these. I would never surgically castrate any animal I have. It is just too risky for infection. The worst problem I have had with the bands was when I got them a little too far down, and the testicles were squeezed for a while. The rams showed some discomfort for about 30 minutes. They were healed over in 3 weeks and my dog brought some interesting pouches back to the house. There is a new brand of bander out that competes with the callicrate bander. for a lolt less money. I saw a lady demonstrate the callicrate type of bander a the farm show, and it sure beats the knife. Cecil Piedmont, OK ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stages of growth
I have a rather urgent question concerning banding castration of young ram lambs. The ram lamb I want to castrate is 3.5 months old. He is a little too big for the normal elastorator banding equipment that I have. So I have made an appointment to have him surgically castrated for next Monday afternoon. However, a co-worker suggested that I use a calf banding tool and calf rubber band, which she and her husband use. She offered to bring the banding tool and a couple of small calf-sized band into work on Monday. Obviously this idea has some appeal because it would be tons cheaper than taking the little guy (approx. 25 lbs. right now) to the vet on Monday. It is also bloodless when done correctly, and in my opinion, easier. But I am hesitant because I've never heard of sheep folks using calf tools for lambs that have grown too big for the lamb-sized bands. Questions: 1) Is it possible to hurt the lamb if the calf band is not tight enough? That is, what would happen to the lamb if the circulation is not ENTIRELY cut off successfully? 2) Is there a point in the ram lamb's age where this banding process is just too invasive and dangerous, because of his size, activity or hormone level, etc., and where it is just plain better and safer to castrate him surgically? 3) Any other considerations to think about that I might not be aware of? The bottom line is, I have never seen a calf band or the calf banding tool. Maybe once I see it, I'll realize that it is still MUCH too big, and using it on the little Barbados lamb will really be out of the question. I'm hoping someone with more banding experience can give me some quick advice. Thanks in advance, Mary Swindell Mary Swindell Bellwether Farm 815 Bell Hill Road Cobden, IL 62920 (618) 893-4568 (home) (618) 453-1697 (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stages ofgrowth
From past experience, spend the extra money and have the older lamb surgically castrated. The calf will probably be too large for the lamb. You could castrate yourself but the lambs this size tend to bleed more. Spend the money with your vet! Rhonda - Original Message - From: Mary Swindell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:33 AM Subject: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stages ofgrowth I have a rather urgent question concerning banding castration of young ram lambs. The ram lamb I want to castrate is 3.5 months old. He is a little too big for the normal elastorator banding equipment that I have. So I have made an appointment to have him surgically castrated for next Monday afternoon. However, a co-worker suggested that I use a calf banding tool and calf rubber band, which she and her husband use. She offered to bring the banding tool and a couple of small calf-sized band into work on Monday. This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stages of growth
I've seen PHOTOS of cattle type banders...never have seen one in real life. My understanding is they use a strip of rubber-band material and the applicator applies a 'staple' sort of thing making the strip a circular band. The band is in essence custom made on the animal as it is applied. Links to different brands http://www.nobull.net/bander/SBhowtouse.html http://www.castrator.com/how_to_castration.htm I see this second one uses a band, but staples it, custom fitting it as well. They're pricey!! Lucky you have a friend with one! I think it'd be better than having the vet cut them. I recently had the vet do a mature ram... he is a good herder, so I wanted to keep him. I drove him to the vet everything, so that he could have a 'real' surgical type procedure. Not sure what he got, but he was a bloody mess (literally) when I went to pick him up. Seemed no different than the ram I'd had cut at my barn... almost cruel. Maybe I'm insane, but it seems that banding is not as bad as cutting. If I'd had a friend with a cattle bander, I definately would've gone that route. Your mission is to be the guinea pig stock-owner tell us how it worked from your vantage point. We're counting on you. ;-) Diane ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stagesof growth
5% or less of the older rams have a bad smell.We don't do any castrating. I butchered hundreds in age 4 to 5 and the only thing important, cut the fat of the meat.I get for older ram hindquarter and back 12.90 a kg , not bad and never had a complain. Regards Helmut - Original Message - From: Diane Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Question about banding ram lambs in later stagesof growth I've seen PHOTOS of cattle type banders...never have seen one in real life. My understanding is they use a strip of rubber-band material and the applicator applies a 'staple' sort of thing making the strip a circular band. The band is in essence custom made on the animal as it is applied. Links to different brands http://www.nobull.net/bander/SBhowtouse.html http://www.castrator.com/how_to_castration.htm I see this second one uses a band, but staples it, custom fitting it as well. They're pricey!! Lucky you have a friend with one! I think it'd be better than having the vet cut them. I recently had the vet do a mature ram... he is a good herder, so I wanted to keep him. I drove him to the vet everything, so that he could have a 'real' surgical type procedure. Not sure what he got, but he was a bloody mess (literally) when I went to pick him up. Seemed no different than the ram I'd had cut at my barn... almost cruel. Maybe I'm insane, but it seems that banding is not as bad as cutting. If I'd had a friend with a cattle bander, I definately would've gone that route. Your mission is to be the guinea pig stock-owner tell us how it worked from your vantage point. We're counting on you. ;-) Diane ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.2 - Release Date: 03/06/2005 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info mailing list Visit the list's homepage at Blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info@lists.blackbellysheep.info http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
