Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Sorry to take so long to answer! Heat is oppressive here and no rain even in sight. We are under a wild fire watch! The reason I don't feed grain is because the hair sheep and particularly the Barbadoes are not meant to eat it! They are doing better than fine on the green weeds even in this drought. Weeds are high in fat! Whenever I need to pen, I shake a bucket of pellets. The way they run in you would think the fat critters are hungry. They don't eat what I put in the pans to chum them in. The other reason I don't like grain is because it changes the taste and texture of the meat. We eat grass fed beef, lamb, and goat. You don't get all of that yellow fat with grass fed! Hope this explains why I believe that we are all trying to do too much for the barbs in the pastures. Luckily I have the space to let them be sheep! Rhonda - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Willhite [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 11:06 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper? Rhonda-- Why not grain? *Brown* pasture land? Are they eating the cheat grass? Awhile back I mentioned mine weren't but someone (cecil?) said his does but maybe I am confusing the name. This is a grass that we consider a weed here, dries out before everything else and has pointy sharp v-shaped seeds that get stuck in everything... as a matter of fact, I just threatened the life of any kid here that walks out in the pasture with their socks on again because the seeds are near impossible to get out. Part of the pasture the sheep are in now is in this (the front part where they like to hang out) but since we have a year round creek/canal on the other side of the property the grass at the end stays green--- well greener. I would like them to clean out the cheat but they aren't interested. We have been debating irrigating the front half but have so much on the todo list here, would rather not if we don't *have* to. We still have about 3 to 4 acres we need to do something with- probably fence it in next year for a few beef cows, and irrigate that one. Want to do more of the AB but will be hard to market in this area. We do have a large Hispanic population and some do well with Boer Meat goats once they get an *in.* I would think the AB would be perfect because they are small enough so they can butcher them on their own, but not sure how much lamb they eat- I am thinking not a lot. Thanks everyone for the input on the Dorper crosses. Sounds like it may be worth a try with the more mature AB ewes. This area is still very uneducated about hair sheep in general so I do see them at the auction for cheap every once in a while--- usually in with the goats- Ha! The same with the AB, but if they are labeled at all it says they are Barbs and half the time Barb goat ;-) I don't quite understand why the hair sheep are so unpopular, they do so much better in this arid climate and so much less of a hassle than the Wooleys, that is why we are interested in them. Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
On butchering a ram. Keep everything clean. We don't even have a problem with venison from a buck in rut. BUT we wear gloves when we are working around the scent area. Change gloves, don't touch the meat with any of the secretions, change knives and wash hands frequently. Cleanliness is the key. If you use a commercial butcher, they want you coming back, so they keep hands and utensils clean. Rhonda - Original Message - From: Elizabeth Willhite [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper? Julian, I am in SW Idaho near the Oregon Border. What is the common consensus here on finishing the Blackbellies off? Anything special as far as feed? Timing? (as in 30 or 90 days a head of time) We have one ram that will be a year in January so we were thinking Novemberish he'll go to the butcher. Also, opinions on if banding/castrating makes a difference in taste. Our ram that will be ready to go isn't, as that is what the opinion of the people we got the flock from. They said they didn't need to be. My husband was a bit concerned the meat may be *off* like when deer are in rut. Too late for him but our first lamb here was a ewe so we haven't made the decision yet on what we will do in the future. Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/403 - Release Date: 7/28/2006 ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
At 10:43 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote: Negative effect on the meat? Since when? Where did you find this information? Corn has been the biggest feed lot food for decades. Not meant to eat grain? Again, where, why. My sheep have gotten out and head to the farmer field that's next to us. They love corn. Yes too much of corn has a negative affect buy not a little as a supplement. As far as too expensive, if you buy it direct from the farmer in quantity it's the cheapest food source available. Around here a 50# bag is only 4.00. That's cheaper than any dog food. Sharon Since always, it's just that nobody ever knew to look until more recently. Ruminants are solar powered lawn mowers, and were never designed to eat grain. Also, grass is much cheaper than any grain, because you don't need to burn fuel to harvest it, and it needs much less fertilizer. As for a negative effect on the meat, grass fed beef/lamb/etc. has better flavor, and a much better fatty acid ratio. At least one study has shown that even feeding a little grain will permanently affect those fatty acid levels in a negative way. Also, dairy cows that eat only grass and hay have a noticeably lower incidence of mastitis than grain fed ones. Grain fed meat from a feedlot is unhealthy. Just because they'll eat it, doesn't mean it's good for them. I spread out some broiler litter a couple weeks ago, and one of my goats went nuts eating it(very high protein). I had to move her to keep her from making herself sick. BTW, did you know that feedlots often feed broiler litter to their cattle? If you want more information, start out reading at eatwild.com, then check out some of their external links. I also recommend The Omnivore's Dilema, and anything by Joel Salatin and Alan Nation. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
At 09:06 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote: Rhonda-- Why not grain? I can't answer for Rhonda, but I don't feed grain because: 1) Sheep aren't meant to eat grain. 2) Too expensive 3) It has a negative effect on the quality of the meat, both flavor and health factors Check out www.eatwild.com for starters. BTW, where in Idaho are you located? I live a bit north of Spokane, WA. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Negative effect on the meat? Since when? Where did you find this information? Corn has been the biggest feed lot food for decades. Not meant to eat grain? Again, where, why. My sheep have gotten out and head to the farmer field that's next to us. They love corn. Yes too much of corn has a negative affect buy not a little as a supplement. As far as too expensive, if you buy it direct from the farmer in quantity it's the cheapest food source available. Around here a 50# bag is only 4.00. That's cheaper than any dog food. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julian Hale Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:20 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper? At 09:06 AM 7/31/2006, you wrote: Rhonda-- Why not grain? I can't answer for Rhonda, but I don't feed grain because: 1) Sheep aren't meant to eat grain. 2) Too expensive 3) It has a negative effect on the quality of the meat, both flavor and health factors Check out www.eatwild.com for starters. BTW, where in Idaho are you located? I live a bit north of Spokane, WA. Julian ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Julian, I am in SW Idaho near the Oregon Border. What is the common consensus here on finishing the Blackbellies off? Anything special as far as feed? Timing? (as in 30 or 90 days a head of time) We have one ram that will be a year in January so we were thinking Novemberish he'll go to the butcher. Also, opinions on if banding/castrating makes a difference in taste. Our ram that will be ready to go isn't, as that is what the opinion of the people we got the flock from. They said they didn't need to be. My husband was a bit concerned the meat may be *off* like when deer are in rut. Too late for him but our first lamb here was a ewe so we haven't made the decision yet on what we will do in the future. Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Anyone here try to cross American Blackbelly with Dorper? Am thinking of adding Dorper to my small AB flock. But they are bigger (which is why I am thinking of adding them)-- so, birthing probs are on my mind. Also, my pastures are cross fenced for rotation, etc. If I did decide to separate them and had rams on each side (with their own gals) am I going to have a problem with fence fighting? They would share the same fence line- one pasture is about 2 acres and the other only about 1/2 acre. Once the mature ewes are serviced can I put them all in one pasture again? I know some has to do with the personality of the rams in question--- but as a general idea? BTW, my little lamb *Ginger* born a few weeks ago is doing splendid now. I put her and Mama in with the others a few days ago. Can hardly catch her now. I think that indeed, she was born about a week early. Also interesting, I acquired a bummer AB lamb a few months ago- he was the third and too small with respiratory problems so mom rejected him at birth, was doing very poorly but we bottle fed and such. He is very big and plump right now-- but we felt bad for him as the other sheep were shunning him, we put our mama Llama and her 1 year old and a couple of weither Nubian goats in the pasture with them and our Mama llama has adopted him-- they hang out together and he lays by her side :-) So funny to see this relatively huge Llama and this little lamb together all the time. All this talk about dampness and foot rot... no worries here in Idaho. So VERY, VERY dry and hot right now. Got to 106ish over the weekend with no relief in site. As my grandpa used to say... dryer than a popcorn fart in the middle of July ;-) Cheers, Elizabeth ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Rams that share a fence, especially if there are ewes on either side of the fence, will demolish a fence. Having their own gals isn't sufficient. Each ram wants ALL the gals. I create a neutral zone of at least 25-50 feet when I am forced to put ewes and rams within visual range of each other. The ewes can be as obnoxious about getting to a ram as the other way around. After breeding, yes you can put all the ewes back together again, but you will want to avoid their sharing a fence with the rams. Rams are a royal pain in the butt. It is why so many people dry lot their rams, and often don't give them more than a tiny pen to live in. That is a horrible way to treat any animal, but there are times when I certainly can see why it would be tempting. Carol At 11:56 AM 7/26/2006 -0600, you wrote: If I did decide to separate them and had rams on each side (with their own gals) am I going to have a problem with fence fighting? They would share the same fence line- one pasture is about 2 acres and the other only about 1/2 acre. Once the mature ewes are serviced can I put them all in one pasture again? I know some has to do with the personality of the rams in question--- but as a general idea? Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] crossing AB with Dorper?
Sharon, to what do you attribute not having a single dominant/aggressive ram in your flock? Do they rotate their pecking order when reunited? You have so much more experience than I do with rams -- I only have three, and because the senior ram has always been the dominant ram, any new rams are quickly put in their place. I follow the same procedure that you described -- reuniting them after breeding in a small area, and then moving them into a larger grazing area. So I'm unclear as to what would prevent my single dominant ram from continuing his reign of terror. Carol On 7/26/2006 2:08:59 PM, The Wintermutes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Once breeding season is done, we put all the rams together in a very small lot to re-establish pecking order before we let them out into the grazing lot. This will happen here at the end of the week. They will have 3 months together before we separate out to catch up the skipped ewes. This way, we do not have a single dominant/aggressive ram in our flock. They all learn to get along. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
