Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
I have not had the pasture here I should have had this winter, for several reasons, one being the drought. I just had the smallest lamb born I have ever seen yesterday morning. He is doing fine, but only weighs about 2 lbs.. I tube fed him a 1/2 oz in the morning, and 1/2 oz 4 hours later then about 5pm fed another 1oz while my vet noted how full he was as I was feeding the tube.. The little guy is doing fine today in a pen under a big shade tree. !! He is a twin and the other is about 3 1/2 lbs. I have had triplets that were larger!! Cecil - Original Message - From: "RBMuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed > > Thank you Cecil for sharing your experiences. I don't respond often to > the > list. > I too think that most people overfeed their bottle babies. In our haste > to > be a good steward we forget that the little critters do not have human > emotion or needs. > In the past I too tried to feed too much too often. Now I just keep the > baby warm, feed small amounts 2 to 3 hours apart (only during daylight > hours), and try not to worry. > Even as the lambs get older, I do not exceed 3 cups of milk replacer a day > and that is usually split into 2 to 3 feedings during the daylight hours. > I > do not offer grain as their stomachs have trouble processing it. They are > fed a small pellet and alfalfa hay. Haven't lost a lamb in several years. > My ewes have taken care of their lambs this year and it has been a rough > year here in TX. Now we have grass and it is wonderful to see well fed > lambs with their slick mamas. > Thank you, > Rhonda > - Original Message - > From: "Cecil Bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed > > >>I disagree with this recommendation. I have had 4 lambs in the past 7 >>years >> that had to be bottle fed. 3 died. I now believe this was from >> enteroxemia >> due to over feeding. The lamb that I had so much trouble with but >> survived >> has shown me that I was over feeding. When weighed about 8 lbs when I >> was >> feeding her 1 oz every 2 hours and developed enterotoxemia. I later >> tried >> this again a week later and she nearly died from overeating. >> >> I milked out a ewe that had twins and one born dead. The other was very >> weak from the birthing. I only got 1 oz from her total. I fed the lamb >> with a tube and he is doing fine now. If he had nursed and had another >> sibling, he only would have received 1/2 oz. >> >> I had a lamb that was very cold from exposure and not enough milk. I >> brought him into the house and fed him during the night. about 1 1/2 oz >> every 1 1/2 hours. He died 24 hours later. I pulled fluid from his >> stomach >> when I was trying to revive him and got a back fluid. This was the >> stomach >> lining due to enterotoxemia. Same fluid found when I had so much >> trouble >> with my latest bottle baby that is now doing fine. She has been bouncing >> around in a playpen in the living room. She goes everywhere with me. >> One >> of these days she is going to be a sheep, not a child.. >> >> I have discussed this with my vet who is on site nearly every day and he >> agrees that we have just overfed blackbellies in the past and we have >> altered our feeding amounts for newborns. >> >> Just my $0.02 >> >> Cecil Bearden >> Oklahoma >> - Original Message - >> From: "Carol Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: ; "Nancy Richardson" >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed >> >> >>> >>> Hi Nancy, >>> >>> This is from Laura Lawson's book, Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn >>> Lambs >>> (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096339231X/critterhavenesta >>> >>> I consider this book to be a Must-Have book for all shepherds. >>> >>> "Recommendations by knowledgeable authorities are for a minimum of 7 oz. >>> as >>> a first feeding after birth. Lambs may need as much as 12 oz. depending >>> on >>> the size of the lamb. The equation set forth is about 20cc per pound of >>> body weight for the first feeding. The lamb should receive this amount >>> from >>> 30 to 60 minutes of birth. ... In the case of orphan lambs, initial >>> amounts >>> o
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
Thank you Cecil for sharing your experiences. I don't respond often to the list. I too think that most people overfeed their bottle babies. In our haste to be a good steward we forget that the little critters do not have human emotion or needs. In the past I too tried to feed too much too often. Now I just keep the baby warm, feed small amounts 2 to 3 hours apart (only during daylight hours), and try not to worry. Even as the lambs get older, I do not exceed 3 cups of milk replacer a day and that is usually split into 2 to 3 feedings during the daylight hours. I do not offer grain as their stomachs have trouble processing it. They are fed a small pellet and alfalfa hay. Haven't lost a lamb in several years. My ewes have taken care of their lambs this year and it has been a rough year here in TX. Now we have grass and it is wonderful to see well fed lambs with their slick mamas. Thank you, Rhonda - Original Message - From: "Cecil Bearden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:24 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed >I disagree with this recommendation. I have had 4 lambs in the past 7 >years > that had to be bottle fed. 3 died. I now believe this was from > enteroxemia > due to over feeding. The lamb that I had so much trouble with but > survived > has shown me that I was over feeding. When weighed about 8 lbs when I was > feeding her 1 oz every 2 hours and developed enterotoxemia. I later tried > this again a week later and she nearly died from overeating. > > I milked out a ewe that had twins and one born dead. The other was very > weak from the birthing. I only got 1 oz from her total. I fed the lamb > with a tube and he is doing fine now. If he had nursed and had another > sibling, he only would have received 1/2 oz. > > I had a lamb that was very cold from exposure and not enough milk. I > brought him into the house and fed him during the night. about 1 1/2 oz > every 1 1/2 hours. He died 24 hours later. I pulled fluid from his > stomach > when I was trying to revive him and got a back fluid. This was the > stomach > lining due to enterotoxemia. Same fluid found when I had so much trouble > with my latest bottle baby that is now doing fine. She has been bouncing > around in a playpen in the living room. She goes everywhere with me. One > of these days she is going to be a sheep, not a child.. > > I have discussed this with my vet who is on site nearly every day and he > agrees that we have just overfed blackbellies in the past and we have > altered our feeding amounts for newborns. > > Just my $0.02 > > Cecil Bearden > Oklahoma > - Original Message - > From: "Carol Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ; "Nancy Richardson" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed > > >> >> Hi Nancy, >> >> This is from Laura Lawson's book, Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs >> (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096339231X/critterhavenesta >> >> I consider this book to be a Must-Have book for all shepherds. >> >> "Recommendations by knowledgeable authorities are for a minimum of 7 oz. >> as >> a first feeding after birth. Lambs may need as much as 12 oz. depending >> on >> the size of the lamb. The equation set forth is about 20cc per pound of >> body weight for the first feeding. The lamb should receive this amount >> from >> 30 to 60 minutes of birth. ... In the case of orphan lambs, initial >> amounts >> of colostrum should be followed at later feedings with divided amounts of >> colostrum for 24 hours. Amounts should equal 15% to 20% of the lamb's >> body >> weight. Unfortunately producers don't have unlimited supplies of >> colostrum. >> This often requires using artificial colostrum for future feedings. Only >> use these after giving the lamb the initial appropriate ewe colostrum of >> a >> minimum amount of 7 oz. within one hour of birth." >> >> These amounts are for wooled sheep; here are the adjustments that should >> be >> made for smaller blackbelly sheep. >> >> Let's do the math on her formula 20 cc colostrum per pound of lamb >> Let's say the average blackbelly lamb is 6 lb. >> 20 cc X 6 lb = 120 cc >> Convert this to ounces (1 oz = 30 mL = 30 cc): 120 cc / 30 cc = 4 oz for >> the first feeding after birth. >> >> She says the total amount for 24 hours should be 20% of the lamb's >> weight. >> 6 lb x 16 oz/lb = 96 oz. 20% of 96 oz. = 19 oz. >> >> So, altho
Re: [blackbelly] Amount of colostrum needed
I hear you Cecil...My bottle baby born in Feb. weighed less than 2 pounds, wasn't fully developed, and did not receive anywhere near the amount of colostrum recommended. She is a healthy, thin but healthy 3 month old now. I guess by trial and error Oregon State has found a formula that is somewhat consistent with lamb survival. I am convinced this hearty breed can survive with less as long as we watch closely and, like you said, feel their little bellies once in a while. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Amount of colostrum needed
You folks In Oregon must have heavier birth weights than we do. My bottle baby was about 2.5 lbs and 2 lambs born this morning are about 4 lbs apiece. At 3 oz per lb, that is 12 oz in 18 hours. about 8oz more than I have fed. Cecil - Original Message - From: "Dayna Denmark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] Amount of colostrum needed > > Carol, > Just passing along some info on amount of colostrum needed for the > blackbelly breed. This is what the Director of Animal Sciences at Oregon > State recommends: > > 3 oz. per pound of body weight over an 18 hour period. > > They do a lot of artificial lamb rearing and have found this amount to be > sufficent. > > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] Amount of colostrum needed
Carol, Just passing along some info on amount of colostrum needed for the blackbelly breed. This is what the Director of Animal Sciences at Oregon State recommends: 3 oz. per pound of body weight over an 18 hour period. They do a lot of artificial lamb rearing and have found this amount to be sufficent. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
What I have done in the past when mama just did not seem to have enough milk for triplets is to make sure they get the colustrum, and I supplement with about an ounce of milk replacer. then before I go to lunch I give them an ounce or 2 depending on how full the belly feels. If their belly feels full, then I do not give any. I use the feel method more than the schedule. I know I have overfed in the past and will go only by the feeling of the belly from now on... I overfed a 4 hour old one with that formula and he aspirated and died in my arms. It is something that haunts me everytime I tube feed one. However, his death probably saved a dozen lambs by preventing me from overusing the tube. Tube feeding is a technique that will save a lamb that has a hard birth experience, or a weak lamb, but if they will nurse, I leave them alone and just monitor progress. I also try to wait until a newborn is 30 minutes old before tube feeding. Their esophagus seems to not be open just yet. Again, all this experience is subject to revision at the time of birth depending on temperature, lamb condition, ewe condition, and everything else under the sun. It is still a miracle they live in spite of all we do! I gotta go pen mine up. Cecil - Original Message - From: "Carol J. Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed > > Cecil, your $0.02 worth is always worth a small gold mine. > > I wouldn't be surprised if once again what is written in the sheep books > just doesn't quite fit with what blackbelly sheep need. Even though > Lawson's formula would automatically scale to the smaller blackbelly > weight, our sheep rarely do anything "by the book." I'm paying attention > to > Cecil's overeating theory. I've done okay with my bottle babies using > Lawson's formula, but those first few days of life are always touch-and-go > and I rarely can get the "prescribed" amount of fluids into a newborn. > Perhaps that has been to the lamb's advantage... > > So what "formula" would you recommend for how much to feed a newborn, both > for colustrum and milk replacer? > > Carol > > At 12:24 AM 5/13/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>I have discussed this with my vet who is on site nearly every day and he >>agrees that we have just overfed blackbellies in the past and we have >>altered our feeding amounts for newborns. > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
Cecil, your $0.02 worth is always worth a small gold mine. I wouldn't be surprised if once again what is written in the sheep books just doesn't quite fit with what blackbelly sheep need. Even though Lawson's formula would automatically scale to the smaller blackbelly weight, our sheep rarely do anything "by the book." I'm paying attention to Cecil's overeating theory. I've done okay with my bottle babies using Lawson's formula, but those first few days of life are always touch-and-go and I rarely can get the "prescribed" amount of fluids into a newborn. Perhaps that has been to the lamb's advantage... So what "formula" would you recommend for how much to feed a newborn, both for colustrum and milk replacer? Carol At 12:24 AM 5/13/2006 -0500, you wrote: >I have discussed this with my vet who is on site nearly every day and he >agrees that we have just overfed blackbellies in the past and we have >altered our feeding amounts for newborns. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
I disagree with this recommendation. I have had 4 lambs in the past 7 years that had to be bottle fed. 3 died. I now believe this was from enteroxemia due to over feeding. The lamb that I had so much trouble with but survived has shown me that I was over feeding. When weighed about 8 lbs when I was feeding her 1 oz every 2 hours and developed enterotoxemia. I later tried this again a week later and she nearly died from overeating. I milked out a ewe that had twins and one born dead. The other was very weak from the birthing. I only got 1 oz from her total. I fed the lamb with a tube and he is doing fine now. If he had nursed and had another sibling, he only would have received 1/2 oz. I had a lamb that was very cold from exposure and not enough milk. I brought him into the house and fed him during the night. about 1 1/2 oz every 1 1/2 hours. He died 24 hours later. I pulled fluid from his stomach when I was trying to revive him and got a back fluid. This was the stomach lining due to enterotoxemia. Same fluid found when I had so much trouble with my latest bottle baby that is now doing fine. She has been bouncing around in a playpen in the living room. She goes everywhere with me. One of these days she is going to be a sheep, not a child.. I have discussed this with my vet who is on site nearly every day and he agrees that we have just overfed blackbellies in the past and we have altered our feeding amounts for newborns. Just my $0.02 Cecil Bearden Oklahoma - Original Message - From: "Carol Elkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; "Nancy Richardson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed > > Hi Nancy, > > This is from Laura Lawson's book, Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs > (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096339231X/critterhavenesta > > I consider this book to be a Must-Have book for all shepherds. > > "Recommendations by knowledgeable authorities are for a minimum of 7 oz. > as > a first feeding after birth. Lambs may need as much as 12 oz. depending on > the size of the lamb. The equation set forth is about 20cc per pound of > body weight for the first feeding. The lamb should receive this amount > from > 30 to 60 minutes of birth. ... In the case of orphan lambs, initial > amounts > of colostrum should be followed at later feedings with divided amounts of > colostrum for 24 hours. Amounts should equal 15% to 20% of the lamb's body > weight. Unfortunately producers don't have unlimited supplies of > colostrum. > This often requires using artificial colostrum for future feedings. Only > use these after giving the lamb the initial appropriate ewe colostrum of a > minimum amount of 7 oz. within one hour of birth." > > These amounts are for wooled sheep; here are the adjustments that should > be > made for smaller blackbelly sheep. > > Let's do the math on her formula 20 cc colostrum per pound of lamb > Let's say the average blackbelly lamb is 6 lb. > 20 cc X 6 lb = 120 cc > Convert this to ounces (1 oz = 30 mL = 30 cc): 120 cc / 30 cc = 4 oz for > the first feeding after birth. > > She says the total amount for 24 hours should be 20% of the lamb's weight. > 6 lb x 16 oz/lb = 96 oz. 20% of 96 oz. = 19 oz. > > So, although your 7 oz. exceeded the first feeding requirement, it was > short of the total amount needed in 24 hours by 12 oz. > > Carol > > At 09:48 PM 5/5/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>Hello, does any one know how much colostrum is needed by a lamb? We had >>triplets born. 2 of them to small to reach momma and her to wild to catch. >>I >>fed them both 3 ounces of colostrum mix before they were 2 hours old. But >>after that could only get about 1/2 ounce down them every few hours for a >>total of about 7 ounces in 24 hours. They only weigh about 2 pounds or so >>each. They are very small. We have never raised ones so small. Thanks >>Nancy > > Carol Elkins > Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep > (no shear, no dock, no fuss) > Pueblo, Colorado > http://www.critterhaven.biz > T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the > Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep > > ___ > This message is from the blackbelly mailing list > Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
I echo Carol's recommendation here. My daughter gave me this book for Christmas. It was extremely helpful in caring for my 2 1/2# lamb. He is still growing and hanging in there. Elaine Haas -Original Message- This is from Laura Lawson's book, Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096339231X/critterhavenesta I consider this book to be a Must-Have book for all shepherds. ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [blackbelly] amount of colostrum needed
Hi Nancy, This is from Laura Lawson's book, Managing Your Ewe and Her Newborn Lambs (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/096339231X/critterhavenesta I consider this book to be a Must-Have book for all shepherds. "Recommendations by knowledgeable authorities are for a minimum of 7 oz. as a first feeding after birth. Lambs may need as much as 12 oz. depending on the size of the lamb. The equation set forth is about 20cc per pound of body weight for the first feeding. The lamb should receive this amount from 30 to 60 minutes of birth. ... In the case of orphan lambs, initial amounts of colostrum should be followed at later feedings with divided amounts of colostrum for 24 hours. Amounts should equal 15% to 20% of the lamb's body weight. Unfortunately producers don't have unlimited supplies of colostrum. This often requires using artificial colostrum for future feedings. Only use these after giving the lamb the initial appropriate ewe colostrum of a minimum amount of 7 oz. within one hour of birth." These amounts are for wooled sheep; here are the adjustments that should be made for smaller blackbelly sheep. Let's do the math on her formula 20 cc colostrum per pound of lamb Let's say the average blackbelly lamb is 6 lb. 20 cc X 6 lb = 120 cc Convert this to ounces (1 oz = 30 mL = 30 cc): 120 cc / 30 cc = 4 oz for the first feeding after birth. She says the total amount for 24 hours should be 20% of the lamb's weight. 6 lb x 16 oz/lb = 96 oz. 20% of 96 oz. = 19 oz. So, although your 7 oz. exceeded the first feeding requirement, it was short of the total amount needed in 24 hours by 12 oz. Carol At 09:48 PM 5/5/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, does any one know how much colostrum is needed by a lamb? We had >triplets born. 2 of them to small to reach momma and her to wild to catch. I >fed them both 3 ounces of colostrum mix before they were 2 hours old. But >after that could only get about 1/2 ounce down them every few hours for a >total of about 7 ounces in 24 hours. They only weigh about 2 pounds or so >each. They are very small. We have never raised ones so small. Thanks Nancy Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz T-shirts, mugs, caps, and more at the Barbados Blackbelly Online Store http://www.cafepress.com/blackbellysheep ___ This message is from the blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
