[BlindHandyMan] Grinding Wheels, Explained.

[Boyce, Ray]

Grinding Wheel

Background

Grinding wheels are made of natural or synthetic abrasive minerals bonded 
together in a matrix to form a wheel. While such tools may be familiar to those
with home workshops, the general public may not be aware of them because most 
have been developed and used by the manufacturing industry. In this sector,
grinding wheels have been important for more than 150 years.

For manufacturers, grinding wheels provide an efficient way to shape and finish 
metals and other materials. Abrasives are often the only way to create parts
with precision dimensions and high-quality surface finishes. Today, grinding 
wheels appear in nearly every manufacturing company in the United States,
where they are used to cut steel and masonry block; to sharpen knives, drill 
bits, and many other tools; or to clean and prepare surfaces for painting
or plating. More specifically, the precision of automobile camshafts and jet 
engine rotors rests upon the use of grinding wheels. Quality bearings could
not be produced without them, and new materials such as ceramic or material 
composites would be impossible without grinding wheels to shape and finish
parts.

Sandstone, an organic abrasive made of quartz grains held together in a natural 
cement, was probably the earliest abrasive; it was used to smooth and sharpen
the flint on axes. By the early nineteenth century, emery (a natural mineral 
containing iron and corundum) was used to cut and shape metals. However, emery's
variable quality and problems with importing it from India prior to its 
discovery in the United States prompted efforts to find a more reliable abrasive
mineral.

By the 1890s, the search had yielded silicon carbide, a synthetic mineral 
harder than corundum. Eventually, manufacturers figured out how to produce an
even better alternative, synthetic corundum or aluminum oxide. In creating this 
bauxite derivative, they developed an abrasive material more reliable than
both natural minerals and silicon carbide. Research into synthetic minerals 
also led to production of the so-called superabrasives. Foremost in this 
category
are synthetic diamonds and a mineral known as cubic boron nitride (CBN), second 
in hardness only to the synthetic diamond. Today, development continues,
and a seeded-gel aluminum oxide has just been introduced.

Throughout the grinding wheel's history, the bond that holds the abrasive 
grains together has proven as important as the grains themselves. The success
of grinding wheels began in the early 1840s, when bonds containing rubber or 
clay were introduced, and by the 1870s a bond with a vitrified or glass-like
structure was patented. Since then, bonds used in grinding wheels have been 
continually refined.

Grinding wheels are available in a wide variety of sizes, ranging from less 
than .25 inch (.63 centimeter) to several feet in diameter. They are also 
available
in numerous shapes: flat disks, cylinders, cups, cones, and wheels with a 
profile cut into the periphery are just a few. Although many techniques, such
as bonding a layer of abrasives to the surface of a metal wheel, are used to 
make grinding wheels, this discussion is limited to wheels composed of vitrified
materials contained in a bonding matrix.

To make a grinding wheel, the ingredients must first be mixed together. Some 
manufacturers simply mix all materials in a single mixer. Others use separate
steps to mix abrasive grains with binder, transfer the wet abrasive to a second 
mixer containing the powdered bonding materials, and tumble the mixture.
Next, the wheel is formed in a molding step: the ingredient mix is poured into 
the mold and compacted by a hydraulic press.
To make a grinding wheel, the ingredients must first be mixed together. Some 
manufacturers simply mix all materials in a single mixer. Others use separate
steps to mix abrasive grains with binder, transfer the wet abrasive to a second 
mixer containing the powdered bonding materials, and tumble the mixture.
Next, the wheel is formed in a molding step: the ingredient mix is poured into 
the mold and compacted by a hydraulic press.

Raw Materials

Two important components, abrasive grains and bonding materials, make up any 
grinding wheel. Often, additives are blended to create a wheel with the 
properties
necessary to shape a particular material in the manner desired.

Abrasive grains constitute the central component of any grinding wheel, and the 
hardness and friability of the grinding materials will significantly affect
the behavior of a given wheel. Hardness is measured in terms of a relative 
scale developed in 1812 by a German mineralogist named Friedrich Mohs. On this
scale, extremely soft talc and gypsum represent hardnesses of one and two, and 
corundum and diamond represent hardness of nine and ten.

Friability refers to how easily a substance can be fractured or pulverized. 
People who design grinding wheels consider the friability of their 
abrasives-which
can differ w

Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

[spiro]

I have to ask, did anyone laugh?


On Tue, 28 Aug 2007, Dale Leavens wrote:

> Yes, I think a camera inspection would be a very good idea. It may be that 
> the problem is now solved though, probably one should make several flushes 
> and so on to wash through the drains very thoroughly it might be that the 
> problem is now clear and never to return but should the drain slow again a 
> video inspection may reveal the issue and if necessary opening the slab in 
> exactly the right spot to minimize the mess and trouble.
>
> One can only guess. I don't much trust those guys with the snake who claim to 
> be able to tell which direction the snake goes and how far. I have observed 
> one of them one time when renovating a building for an office. Half a dozen 
> of us were standing around as the power snake operator pronounced the snake 
> going this way and that, down into the drain between the buildings and so on. 
> Suddenly there was a loud crash and a thrashing from the other side of the 
> partition wall. the snake had gone down the drain then made it's way back up 
> through the toilet in the bathroom on the other side of the wall smashing it 
> then proceeding to thrash the interior of the rest of the wall. Certainly 
> wasn't the twenty feet down the drain in the passage between the buildings 
> the drain man said it was.
>
> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Skype DaleLeavens
> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: cheetah
>  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:19 PM
>  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)
>
>
>  around here the septic companies tell about a camera they can run
>  down the drain to see what is going on.
>  i am sure they have something like that so he can see whats up.
>  jim
>  At 04:23 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote:
>
>  >Hi Shane,
>  >
>  >If I understand your description correctly could there be a 'T'
>  >where the drain from the laundry meets the drain from the bathrooms
>  >then passes under the kitchen picking that up on the way out the
>  >back? This might explain why the kitchen and the laundry are working
>  >when the toilets go out.
>  >
>  >You wouldn't want to excavate under the slab. I only suggested that
>  >the sewer line might have a dip in it because the blockage is well
>  >under the house so to me it is unlikely to be roots. A low spot will
>  >collect solids and even a flush passing through might, at best float
>  >some for a while then allow it to resettle perhaps with a bit more
>  >sediment added. Finding it though would be tough. One always assumes
>  >that the pipe is laid on a firm base but this is not guaranteed and
>  >a load of wet cement over a part of it sitting on soft or loose
>  >ground might well cause it to sag a little.
>  >
>  >I don't envy your situation at all. You may be able to snake it out
>  >by hand, that is not a nice job and I don't know that snaking as
>  >prevention is particularly useful, it could be but I am doubtful.
>  >
>  >Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
>  >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >Skype DaleLeavens
>  >Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>  >
>  >- Original Message -
>  >From: Shane Hecker
>  >To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>  >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:37 PM
>  >Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)
>  >
>  >The shower is a sunken shower. The city guy did use a jet, but only
>  >at about 10% of normal pressure. And as soon as he hit the blockage,
>  >he stopped because he didn't want to fill the house with sewer goo.
>  >Also, the washer is no where near the shower. It is in the garage.
>  >It may be helpful to try and give a layout of the house. This
>  >discription is going to be from the viewpoint of approaching the
>  >front of the house. On the far left, there is the garage. Go a bit
>  >to the right and you find the dining room. A bit further to the
>  >right is a sidewalk going up to a small portch and then the
>  >entrance. To the right of this is the guest bathroom and bedroom,
>  >then the master. The bathroom with the shower is in the master. The
>  >washing machine is in the garage. The sewer line exits the house
>  >below the kitchen, which is behind the dining room. Based on
>  >information the city guy told me, I believe once the main line
>  >enters the house, it goes in about 12 feet, then makes a turn.
>  >Knowing where the bathrooms are, it should be turn to the right. It
>  >was past this turn that the blockage was found, which is about 35 to
>  >40 feet in. If it is a low spot in the pipe, is there a way you can
>  >get to it without tearing up the slab? I'm assuming you could dig
>  >and find it, but what would that do to the foundation?
>  >
>  >Shane
>  >
>  >- Original Message -
>  >From: Dale Leavens
>  >To: <

Re: [BlindHandyMan] electric heat loss

[Lenny McHugh]

We need a subject change.

- Original Message - 
From: "Max Robinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?


examples of electric resistance heating are an electric range, including the
oven,  an electric furnace, as opposed to a heat pump, and anything else
that turns electricity into heat.  It may be argued that not all of the heat
gets into the food because some is lost into the kitchen.  True.  It also
may be argued that an electric furnace has some loss of heat to the crawl
space and that is true.   However, your figure of 35 percent is much too
low.  If the ducts are well insulated a figure of 80 to 90 percent is much
closer to the truth.

As a matter of fact, every last watt hour of electric energy that comes into
our homes is converted into heat.  Believe it or not, I have run into
faculty members in engineering who did not really believe that.  The old
engineering building was heated with resistance heat.  This one guy kept
going around turning off lights in the hallways even in the winter.  I could
not convince him that all of the energy that goes into lighting ultimately
goes into heating the building and the thermostat will cut back, ever so
slightly, on the main resistance heating.  Lighting converts most of the
electrical energy into heat and a little into light.  But even the light
gets converted into heat when it is absorbed by walls floors etc.  The only
exception is a very small amount of visible light that escapes through the
windows.  The power that goes into your stereo  is mostly converted into
heat.  A small amount is converted into sound energy but when that is
absorbed by the walls it is converted into heat.  Only that small amount of
sound you can hear outside has escaped the walls of your house.  Even the
escaping light and sound is ultimately converted into heat because that is
the end point of all other forms of energy.  Remember, energy can not be
created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one kind to another.
Back me up Dan?

Regards.

Max.  K 4 O D S.

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com

To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?


> what are some forms of electric resistance heating?
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Max Robinson wrote:
>
>> Electric resistance heating is 100 percent efficient.  All of the
>> electric
>> energy is converted into heat.  It's the only 100 percent efficient thing
>> we
>> have.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Max.  K 4 O D S.
>>
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
>> Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
>> Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>>
>> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Geoff Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>>
>>
>>> It's probably useful to take a broad look at the efficiency of electric
>>> heat.  Considering that running a coal generator is only slightly above
>>> 30%
>>> efficiency, hence throwing away 70%.  Then considering the line loss
>>> between
>>> the generator plant and your home, which is often discussed as around
>>> 10%.
>>> Then to further discuss the inefficiency of electrical resistance
>>> heating,
>>> which, I understand is only about 35%, then the whole picture of
>>> electrical
>>> heating fuel waste comes into perspective.
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>>>
>>>
>>> So, lets add anothr question to this. Does it make sense to lower the
>>> temp at night in the home or leave it set at the same temp day and
>>> night? The thought is by lowering it 3 to 4 degrees at night while
>>> your asleep, it would run less, but then if the heatpump has to fire
>>> up the backup heat source which is likely electric itself and run at
>>> the same time to raise the temp up the 3 to 4 degrees, have you really
>>> saved anything.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Dan Rossi wrote:
>>>
 Actually, I think that a heat pump is supposed to be more efficient
 than
 just straight electric heat, but not exactly sure how it works out
 that
 way.

 --
 Blue skies.
 Dan Rossi
 Carnegie Mellon University.
 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Tel: (412) 268-9081


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To listen to the show archives go 

Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?

[Max Robinson]

examples of electric resistance heating are an electric range, including the 
oven,  an electric furnace, as opposed to a heat pump, and anything else 
that turns electricity into heat.  It may be argued that not all of the heat 
gets into the food because some is lost into the kitchen.  True.  It also 
may be argued that an electric furnace has some loss of heat to the crawl 
space and that is true.   However, your figure of 35 percent is much too 
low.  If the ducts are well insulated a figure of 80 to 90 percent is much 
closer to the truth.

As a matter of fact, every last watt hour of electric energy that comes into 
our homes is converted into heat.  Believe it or not, I have run into 
faculty members in engineering who did not really believe that.  The old 
engineering building was heated with resistance heat.  This one guy kept 
going around turning off lights in the hallways even in the winter.  I could 
not convince him that all of the energy that goes into lighting ultimately 
goes into heating the building and the thermostat will cut back, ever so 
slightly, on the main resistance heating.  Lighting converts most of the 
electrical energy into heat and a little into light.  But even the light 
gets converted into heat when it is absorbed by walls floors etc.  The only 
exception is a very small amount of visible light that escapes through the 
windows.  The power that goes into your stereo  is mostly converted into 
heat.  A small amount is converted into sound energy but when that is 
absorbed by the walls it is converted into heat.  Only that small amount of 
sound you can hear outside has escaped the walls of your house.  Even the 
escaping light and sound is ultimately converted into heat because that is 
the end point of all other forms of energy.  Remember, energy can not be 
created or destroyed, it can only be converted from one kind to another. 
Back me up Dan?

Regards.

Max.  K 4 O D S.

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com

To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?


> what are some forms of electric resistance heating?
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Max Robinson wrote:
>
>> Electric resistance heating is 100 percent efficient.  All of the 
>> electric
>> energy is converted into heat.  It's the only 100 percent efficient thing 
>> we
>> have.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Max.  K 4 O D S.
>>
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
>> Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
>> Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>>
>> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Geoff Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>>
>>
>>> It's probably useful to take a broad look at the efficiency of electric
>>> heat.  Considering that running a coal generator is only slightly above
>>> 30%
>>> efficiency, hence throwing away 70%.  Then considering the line loss
>>> between
>>> the generator plant and your home, which is often discussed as around 
>>> 10%.
>>> Then to further discuss the inefficiency of electrical resistance 
>>> heating,
>>> which, I understand is only about 35%, then the whole picture of
>>> electrical
>>> heating fuel waste comes into perspective.
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>>>
>>>
>>> So, lets add anothr question to this. Does it make sense to lower the
>>> temp at night in the home or leave it set at the same temp day and
>>> night? The thought is by lowering it 3 to 4 degrees at night while
>>> your asleep, it would run less, but then if the heatpump has to fire
>>> up the backup heat source which is likely electric itself and run at
>>> the same time to raise the temp up the 3 to 4 degrees, have you really
>>> saved anything.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Dan Rossi wrote:
>>>
 Actually, I think that a heat pump is supposed to be more efficient
 than
 just straight electric heat, but not exactly sure how it works out
 that
 way.

 --
 Blue skies.
 Dan Rossi
 Carnegie Mellon University.
 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Tel: (412) 268-9081


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To listen to the show archives go to link
>>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
>>> or
>>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>>>
>>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
>>> http

Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

[Dale Leavens]

Yes, I think a camera inspection would be a very good idea. It may be that the 
problem is now solved though, probably one should make several flushes and so 
on to wash through the drains very thoroughly it might be that the problem is 
now clear and never to return but should the drain slow again a video 
inspection may reveal the issue and if necessary opening the slab in exactly 
the right spot to minimize the mess and trouble.

One can only guess. I don't much trust those guys with the snake who claim to 
be able to tell which direction the snake goes and how far. I have observed one 
of them one time when renovating a building for an office. Half a dozen of us 
were standing around as the power snake operator pronounced the snake going 
this way and that, down into the drain between the buildings and so on. 
Suddenly there was a loud crash and a thrashing from the other side of the 
partition wall. the snake had gone down the drain then made it's way back up 
through the toilet in the bathroom on the other side of the wall smashing it 
then proceeding to thrash the interior of the rest of the wall. Certainly 
wasn't the twenty feet down the drain in the passage between the buildings the 
drain man said it was.

Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


  - Original Message - 
  From: cheetah 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)


  around here the septic companies tell about a camera they can run 
  down the drain to see what is going on.
  i am sure they have something like that so he can see whats up.
  jim
  At 04:23 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote:

  >Hi Shane,
  >
  >If I understand your description correctly could there be a 'T' 
  >where the drain from the laundry meets the drain from the bathrooms 
  >then passes under the kitchen picking that up on the way out the 
  >back? This might explain why the kitchen and the laundry are working 
  >when the toilets go out.
  >
  >You wouldn't want to excavate under the slab. I only suggested that 
  >the sewer line might have a dip in it because the blockage is well 
  >under the house so to me it is unlikely to be roots. A low spot will 
  >collect solids and even a flush passing through might, at best float 
  >some for a while then allow it to resettle perhaps with a bit more 
  >sediment added. Finding it though would be tough. One always assumes 
  >that the pipe is laid on a firm base but this is not guaranteed and 
  >a load of wet cement over a part of it sitting on soft or loose 
  >ground might well cause it to sag a little.
  >
  >I don't envy your situation at all. You may be able to snake it out 
  >by hand, that is not a nice job and I don't know that snaking as 
  >prevention is particularly useful, it could be but I am doubtful.
  >
  >Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
  >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >Skype DaleLeavens
  >Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
  >
  >- Original Message -
  >From: Shane Hecker
  >To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
  >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:37 PM
  >Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)
  >
  >The shower is a sunken shower. The city guy did use a jet, but only 
  >at about 10% of normal pressure. And as soon as he hit the blockage, 
  >he stopped because he didn't want to fill the house with sewer goo. 
  >Also, the washer is no where near the shower. It is in the garage. 
  >It may be helpful to try and give a layout of the house. This 
  >discription is going to be from the viewpoint of approaching the 
  >front of the house. On the far left, there is the garage. Go a bit 
  >to the right and you find the dining room. A bit further to the 
  >right is a sidewalk going up to a small portch and then the 
  >entrance. To the right of this is the guest bathroom and bedroom, 
  >then the master. The bathroom with the shower is in the master. The 
  >washing machine is in the garage. The sewer line exits the house 
  >below the kitchen, which is behind the dining room. Based on 
  >information the city guy told me, I believe once the main line 
  >enters the house, it goes in about 12 feet, then makes a turn. 
  >Knowing where the bathrooms are, it should be turn to the right. It 
  >was past this turn that the blockage was found, which is about 35 to 
  >40 feet in. If it is a low spot in the pipe, is there a way you can 
  >get to it without tearing up the slab? I'm assuming you could dig 
  >and find it, but what would that do to the foundation?
  >
  >Shane
  >
  >- Original Message -
  >From: Dale Leavens
  >To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
  >Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:04 PM
  >Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem

Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

[cheetah]

around here the septic companies tell about a camera they can run 
down the drain to see what is going on.
i am sure they have something like that so he can see whats up.
jim
At 04:23 PM 8/28/2007, you wrote:

>Hi Shane,
>
>If I understand your description correctly could there be a 'T' 
>where the drain from the laundry meets the drain from the bathrooms 
>then passes under the kitchen picking that up on the way out the 
>back? This might explain why the kitchen and the laundry are working 
>when the toilets go out.
>
>You wouldn't want to excavate under the slab. I only suggested that 
>the sewer line might have a dip in it because the blockage is well 
>under the house so to me it is unlikely to be roots. A low spot will 
>collect solids and even a flush passing through might, at best float 
>some for a while then allow it to resettle perhaps with a bit more 
>sediment added. Finding it though would be tough. One always assumes 
>that the pipe is laid on a firm base but this is not guaranteed and 
>a load of wet cement over a part of it sitting on soft or loose 
>ground might well cause it to sag a little.
>
>I don't envy your situation at all. You may be able to snake it out 
>by hand, that is not a nice job and I don't know that snaking as 
>prevention is particularly useful, it could be but I am doubtful.
>
>Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Skype DaleLeavens
>Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.
>
>- Original Message -
>From: Shane Hecker
>To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)
>
>The shower is a sunken shower. The city guy did use a jet, but only 
>at about 10% of normal pressure. And as soon as he hit the blockage, 
>he stopped because he didn't want to fill the house with sewer goo. 
>Also, the washer is no where near the shower. It is in the garage. 
>It may be helpful to try and give a layout of the house. This 
>discription is going to be from the viewpoint of approaching the 
>front of the house. On the far left, there is the garage. Go a bit 
>to the right and you find the dining room. A bit further to the 
>right is a sidewalk going up to a small portch and then the 
>entrance. To the right of this is the guest bathroom and bedroom, 
>then the master. The bathroom with the shower is in the master. The 
>washing machine is in the garage. The sewer line exits the house 
>below the kitchen, which is behind the dining room. Based on 
>information the city guy told me, I believe once the main line 
>enters the house, it goes in about 12 feet, then makes a turn. 
>Knowing where the bathrooms are, it should be turn to the right. It 
>was past this turn that the blockage was found, which is about 35 to 
>40 feet in. If it is a low spot in the pipe, is there a way you can 
>get to it without tearing up the slab? I'm assuming you could dig 
>and find it, but what would that do to the foundation?
>
>Shane
>
>- Original Message -
>From: Dale Leavens
>To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)
>
>I doubt roots would travel very far under a slab. There isn't the 
>environment to attract them, being sheltered it is likely to be 
>pretty dry and covered the soil won't usually have much nutrient. A 
>decent leak over time might provide moisture and feed to spread far 
>enough to attract the roots I suppose but that seems unlikely though 
>not impossible.
>
>I think you will find that your city building code will specify what 
>sort of sewer pipe is now required to connect to their mains. I 
>would imagine A B S or some similar plastic.
>
>Finally, I would be very suspicious that there is a low spot in the 
>pipe under the slab where residue is settling out and filling the 
>pipe over time. The lighter materials and the water will generally 
>continue to flow over this in the upper part of the pipe but as 
>residue forms the turbulence over the growing obstruction will cause 
>more sediment to precipitate out. You might benefit from running 
>some chemistry down the toilets from time-to-time but there is a 
>caveat, in 1968 they may well have still been using cast iron pipe 
>which doesn't much like acids. I am not familiar with foam snake it 
>may be helpful. If the blockage is, as I suggest, the result of a 
>low spot a mechanical snake will be of limited value because once it 
>has punched it's way through the opening will be only a little 
>larger than the snake which will continue to make it's way through 
>the path of least resistance so won't open it up enough for 
>satisfactory drainage or at least not for long.
>
>Do I understand that the city guy used a jet of water up toward your 
>house? If the blockage is, as you think, the wonder to me i

[BlindHandyMan] Tips for Window and Door Kits, Plus More

[Boyce, Ray]

Tips for Window & Door Kits

I can't close my window after installing weatherstripping

If your window won't close after applying self-adhesive foam
weatherstripping, the product may have been too thick for the size or
amount of gaps you have.
Be sure to check for proper closure as you weatherstrip each strip each
side of your window.

Outside edge application

For best results, apply the sticky side of the double-sided tape to the
outside edge of the window molding. Tape can also be applied to face
molding.

Run one continuous piece of tape around the entire frame or allow tape
to overlap at the corners.

The film won't stick to the tape

If film doesn't stick to the tape, use a hair dryer to warm the film
while lightly pressing on the tape surface. This improves the adhesion
of film to tape.

Preparing the surface

When applying self-adhesive weatherstripping, make sure you have a
clean, dry surface. If the surface is dusty, dirty or oily, your
weatherstripping may
not stay in place for long! A splash of rubbing alcohol will remove
grime and residue.

To insure complete dryness, use a hair dryer directly on the mounting
surface. It removes trapped moisture, particularly on cold metal
surfaces.

Removing adhesive

For general adhesive removal, we recommend Duck brand
Adhesive Remover.
Duck brand Adhesive Remover is a heavy-duty adhesive residue removal
solution. Removes Duck Tape, masking tape, carpet tape, weatherstripping
tape, mounting
tape, labels stickers, tar, gum, caulk and more. Our remover is safe to
use on all types of hard surfaces including: walls, floors, doors,
furniture, cars,
metal, plastic, glass and wood. Always test solvents on a small,
inconspicuous area to make sure it won't damage the surface. Our sponge
applicator makes
it easy to use with precise application. There is a convenient built-in
scraper tool attached: no need for additional tools. Fresh citrus scent
in an easy
to handle bottle. Not recommended for fine fabrics and furniture, or
absorbent surfaces.

The key to removing rubber adhesive is to let the solvent do the work
for you. The longer you let it soak in, the easier it is to remove the
adhesive. Five
to ten minutes is usually enough time.

A "home remedy" we recommend is WD-40. The petroleum-based lubricant is
excellent for removing adhesives. Rubbing alcohol also works for
removing light
adhesives, but evaporates quickly. Remember to test these products
before applying on a large scale.

Removing weatherstripping

If the adhesive isn't fused to the surface, use a hair dryer or heat gun
to soften the adhesive and remove the strip.

To remove foam weatherstripping, roll the foam onto itself down the side
of the door. Saturate the adhesive with solvent and let it soak in for 5
to 10
minutes. Place a rag or towel over your index finger and rub the
adhesive residue in a circular motion until it comes off.

Removing the tape backing

Fold a small corner of the tape back and make a crease. Using your
fingernail, separate the tape from the paper backing. (The backing will
remain folded
while the tape straightens out.) Use the folded piece to start the roll.
Removing adhesive shelf liner

If the liner is stuck to the surface, use a hair dryer to soften the
adhesive. After 5 to 10 minutes you can peel the liner away.

Application

Adhesive shelf liners can be used on a variety of surfaces.
Self-Adhesive Easy Liner has a very low tack adhesive and is best used
on solid, finished surfaces
such as vinyl, laminates, metal and glass.

We recommend Peel 'n Stick liners for laminating or lining surfaces
where adhesive residue will not be an issue upon removal.

Peeling off the backing (Peel & Stick)

Fold a small corner of the liner back and make a crease. Using your
fingernail, separate the liner from the paper backing. (The backing will
remain folded
while the liner straightens out.) Use the folded piece as a tab to start
the liner.
Tips for Boxes & Tubes

Choosing the right box for shipping

Use a Care Mail corrugated box instead of a two-piece box with a lid.

Don't skimp and use an old box from the garage or attic. It may not
provide enough protection during shipping.

Choose a box slightly larger than the items being shipped. This leaves
space on all sides to cushion the items against jostling, dropping or
damage.

Make sure the box has no tears, punctures or crush marks.

Keep in mind that many shipping containers are made for mailing specific
items (Mailing Tubes, CD Mailers, Video Mailers, Photo Mailers, etc.)

Protect the contents

Keep fragile items separate from each other and away from the sides of
the box.

Use enough cushioning (several inches all around) so items don't move
when you shake the box.

Cushioning materials

CareMail(r) Bubble Wrap(r) Packaging Styrofoam peanuts, Plain popcorn
(no salt or butter), Tissue Paper, Small Stuffed Animals, Crumpled 60
lb. Kraft paper,
newspaper or Potpourri.

Closing the package

Postal carriers will not accept packages sealed wit

[BlindHandyMan] Propane Gas Refrigerators and Freezers - How it Work

[Lenny McHugh]

When I posted the information I found it here.
I remember as a young child laying on the floor looking at the blue flame 
wondering how something hot can make something cold.

http://www.gasrefrigerators.com/howitworks.htm

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?

[Dale Leavens]

Baseboard heaters, toasters, electric oven elements and stove-top heating 
elements. Any time heat is generated by passing electricity through a wire or 
other conductor that offers enough resistance to heat up.

Although, as Max said, this is efficient conversion of electricity to energy it 
is not necessarily heat efficient. A light bulb generates a lot of resistive 
heat but a lot of that is in the light spectrum which is not heat that is so 
easily absorbed. There are other examples, anyone who has heard the element 
clicking as it expands or contracts with changing temperature will recognize 
that some of the energy is dissipated as sound or mechanical alteration.

Electric heat can be generated using radio frequency such as shortwave or 
microwave energy or maybe by friction, turning a wheel against something to 
make heat.Of course there is the electric arc as used in a welder for example 
which also generates heat.

In the context of heat pumps though there is often an electric heating element 
to boost the temperature of the air when the compressor and heat exchanger 
cannot satisfy the demand as for example when it is too cold outside to extract 
enough heat with the gasses used to satisfy the demand.

It should be remembered that the limitation are the result of the gasses used. 
I don't know but I would guess that compressing something like nitrogen would 
extract plenty of heat from even Antarctic climate conditions but not without 
significant other challenges..

Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?


  what are some forms of electric resistance heating?

  On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Max Robinson wrote:

  > Electric resistance heating is 100 percent efficient. All of the electric
  > energy is converted into heat. It's the only 100 percent efficient thing we
  > have.
  >
  > Regards.
  >
  > Max. K 4 O D S.
  >
  > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >
  > Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
  > Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
  > Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
  >
  > To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
  > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >
  > - Original Message -
  > From: "Geoff Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > To: 
  > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:29 PM
  > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
  >
  >
  >> It's probably useful to take a broad look at the efficiency of electric
  >> heat. Considering that running a coal generator is only slightly above
  >> 30%
  >> efficiency, hence throwing away 70%. Then considering the line loss
  >> between
  >> the generator plant and your home, which is often discussed as around 10%.
  >> Then to further discuss the inefficiency of electrical resistance heating,
  >> which, I understand is only about 35%, then the whole picture of
  >> electrical
  >> heating fuel waste comes into perspective.
  >>
  >> Geoff
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> To: 
  >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:16 PM
  >> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
  >>
  >>
  >> So, lets add anothr question to this. Does it make sense to lower the
  >> temp at night in the home or leave it set at the same temp day and
  >> night? The thought is by lowering it 3 to 4 degrees at night while
  >> your asleep, it would run less, but then if the heatpump has to fire
  >> up the backup heat source which is likely electric itself and run at
  >> the same time to raise the temp up the 3 to 4 degrees, have you really
  >> saved anything.
  >>
  >> Scott
  >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Dan Rossi wrote:
  >>
  >>> Actually, I think that a heat pump is supposed to be more efficient
  >>> than
  >>> just straight electric heat, but not exactly sure how it works out
  >>> that
  >>> way.
  >>>
  >>> --
  >>> Blue skies.
  >>> Dan Rossi
  >>> Carnegie Mellon University.
  >>> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >>> Tel: (412) 268-9081
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> To listen to the show archives go to link
  >> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
  >> or
  >> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
  >>
  >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
  >> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
  >>
  >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various
  >> List Members At The Following address:
  >> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
  >>
  >> Visit the archives page at the following address
  >> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
  >>
  >> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the
  >> following
  >> addre

Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?

[Rob Monitor]

HI, a wile back Ray had sent a thing on how gas refrigerators work could you 
send that again I lost it some how... The article talked about ammonia is used 
for cooling...
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 4:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?


  what are some forms of electric resistance heating?

  On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Max Robinson wrote:

  > Electric resistance heating is 100 percent efficient. All of the electric
  > energy is converted into heat. It's the only 100 percent efficient thing we
  > have.
  >
  > Regards.
  >
  > Max. K 4 O D S.
  >
  > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >
  > Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
  > Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
  > Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
  >
  > To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
  > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >
  > - Original Message -
  > From: "Geoff Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  > To: 
  > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:29 PM
  > Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
  >
  >
  >> It's probably useful to take a broad look at the efficiency of electric
  >> heat. Considering that running a coal generator is only slightly above
  >> 30%
  >> efficiency, hence throwing away 70%. Then considering the line loss
  >> between
  >> the generator plant and your home, which is often discussed as around 10%.
  >> Then to further discuss the inefficiency of electrical resistance heating,
  >> which, I understand is only about 35%, then the whole picture of
  >> electrical
  >> heating fuel waste comes into perspective.
  >>
  >> Geoff
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  >> To: 
  >> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:16 PM
  >> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
  >>
  >>
  >> So, lets add anothr question to this. Does it make sense to lower the
  >> temp at night in the home or leave it set at the same temp day and
  >> night? The thought is by lowering it 3 to 4 degrees at night while
  >> your asleep, it would run less, but then if the heatpump has to fire
  >> up the backup heat source which is likely electric itself and run at
  >> the same time to raise the temp up the 3 to 4 degrees, have you really
  >> saved anything.
  >>
  >> Scott
  >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Dan Rossi wrote:
  >>
  >>> Actually, I think that a heat pump is supposed to be more efficient
  >>> than
  >>> just straight electric heat, but not exactly sure how it works out
  >>> that
  >>> way.
  >>>
  >>> --
  >>> Blue skies.
  >>> Dan Rossi
  >>> Carnegie Mellon University.
  >>> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >>> Tel: (412) 268-9081
  >>>
  >>>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> To listen to the show archives go to link
  >> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
  >> or
  >> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
  >>
  >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
  >> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
  >>
  >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various
  >> List Members At The Following address:
  >> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
  >>
  >> Visit the archives page at the following address
  >> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
  >>
  >> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the
  >> following
  >> address for more information:
  >> http://jaws-users.com/mailman/listinfo/blind-computing_jaws-users.com
  >>
  >> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
  >> list
  >> just send a blank message to:
  >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> To listen to the show archives go to link
  >> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
  >> or
  >> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
  >>
  >> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
  >> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
  >>
  >> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various
  >> List Members At The Following address:
  >> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
  >>
  >> Visit the archives page at the following address
  >> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
  >>
  >> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the
  >> following address for more information:
  >> http://jaws-users.com/mailman/listinfo/blind-computing_jaws-users.com
  >>
  >> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
  >> list just send a blank message to:
  >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> --
  >> No virus found in this incoming message.
  >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  >> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007
  >> 9:34 PM
  >>
  >>
  >
  >
  >
  > 

Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

[Dale Leavens]

Hi Shane,

If I understand your description correctly could there be a 'T' where the drain 
from the laundry meets the drain from the bathrooms then passes under the 
kitchen picking that up on the way out the back? This might explain why the 
kitchen and the laundry are working when the toilets go out.

You wouldn't want to excavate under the slab. I only suggested that the sewer 
line might have a dip in it because the blockage is well under the house so to 
me it is unlikely to be roots. A low spot will collect solids and even a flush 
passing through might, at best float some for a while then allow it to resettle 
perhaps with a bit more sediment added. Finding it though would be tough. One 
always assumes that the pipe is laid on a firm base but this is not guaranteed 
and a load of wet cement over a part of it sitting on soft or loose ground 
might well cause it to sag a little.

I don't envy your situation at all. You may be able to snake it out by hand, 
that is not a nice job and I don't know that snaking as prevention is 
particularly useful, it could be but I am doubtful.

Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Shane Hecker 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 8:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)


  The shower is a sunken shower. The city guy did use a jet, but only at about 
10% of normal pressure. And as soon as he hit the blockage, he stopped because 
he didn't want to fill the house with sewer goo. Also, the washer is no where 
near the shower. It is in the garage. It may be helpful to try and give a 
layout of the house. This discription is going to be from the viewpoint of 
approaching the front of the house. On the far left, there is the garage. Go a 
bit to the right and you find the dining room. A bit further to the right is a 
sidewalk going up to a small portch and then the entrance. To the right of this 
is the guest bathroom and bedroom, then the master. The bathroom with the 
shower is in the master. The washing machine is in the garage. The sewer line 
exits the house below the kitchen, which is behind the dining room. Based on 
information the city guy told me, I believe once the main line enters the 
house, it goes in about 12 feet, then makes a turn. Knowing where the bathrooms 
are, it should be a turn to the right. It was past this turn that the blockage 
was found, which is about 35 to 40 feet in. If it is a low spot in the pipe, is 
there a way you can get to it without tearing up the slab? I'm assuming you 
could dig and find it, but what would that do to the foundation?

  Shane

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dale Leavens 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

  I doubt roots would travel very far under a slab. There isn't the environment 
to attract them, being sheltered it is likely to be pretty dry and covered the 
soil won't usually have much nutrient. A decent leak over time might provide 
moisture and feed to spread far enough to attract the roots I suppose but that 
seems unlikely though not impossible.

  I think you will find that your city building code will specify what sort of 
sewer pipe is now required to connect to their mains. I would imagine A B S or 
some similar plastic.

  Finally, I would be very suspicious that there is a low spot in the pipe 
under the slab where residue is settling out and filling the pipe over time. 
The lighter materials and the water will generally continue to flow over this 
in the upper part of the pipe but as residue forms the turbulence over the 
growing obstruction will cause more sediment to precipitate out. You might 
benefit from running some chemistry down the toilets from time-to-time but 
there is a caveat, in 1968 they may well have still been using cast iron pipe 
which doesn't much like acids. I am not familiar with foam snake it may be 
helpful. If the blockage is, as I suggest, the result of a low spot a 
mechanical snake will be of limited value because once it has punched it's way 
through the opening will be only a little larger than the snake which will 
continue to make it's way through the path of least resistance so won't open it 
up enough for satisfactory drainage or at least not for long.

  Do I understand that the city guy used a jet of water up toward your house? 
If the blockage is, as you think, the wonder to me is that he didn't fill your 
house with streams of sewer goo!

  As I think of it, I wonder about your laundry and where it enters the system 
and if, when the washer discharges it's foam any of that appears up the shower 
drain. Usually too, because of the volume and pump pressure from a washing 
machine any blockage will soon have foamy water squirting out from around th

Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?

[spiro]

what are some forms of electric resistance heating?


On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Max Robinson wrote:

> Electric resistance heating is 100 percent efficient.  All of the electric
> energy is converted into heat.  It's the only 100 percent efficient thing we
> have.
>
> Regards.
>
> Max.  K 4 O D S.
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
> Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
> Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Geoff Eden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>
>
>> It's probably useful to take a broad look at the efficiency of electric
>> heat.  Considering that running a coal generator is only slightly above
>> 30%
>> efficiency, hence throwing away 70%.  Then considering the line loss
>> between
>> the generator plant and your home, which is often discussed as around 10%.
>> Then to further discuss the inefficiency of electrical resistance heating,
>> which, I understand is only about 35%, then the whole picture of
>> electrical
>> heating fuel waste comes into perspective.
>>
>> Geoff
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>>
>>
>> So, lets add anothr question to this. Does it make sense to lower the
>> temp at night in the home or leave it set at the same temp day and
>> night? The thought is by lowering it 3 to 4 degrees at night while
>> your asleep, it would run less, but then if the heatpump has to fire
>> up the backup heat source which is likely electric itself and run at
>> the same time to raise the temp up the 3 to 4 degrees, have you really
>> saved anything.
>>
>> Scott
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Dan Rossi wrote:
>>
>>> Actually, I think that a heat pump is supposed to be more efficient
>>> than
>>> just straight electric heat, but not exactly sure how it works out
>>> that
>>> way.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Blue skies.
>>> Dan Rossi
>>> Carnegie Mellon University.
>>> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Tel: (412) 268-9081
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To listen to the show archives go to link
>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
>> or
>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>>
>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>>
>> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various
>> List Members At The Following address:
>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>>
>> Visit the archives page at the following address
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>>
>> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the
>> following
>> address for more information:
>> http://jaws-users.com/mailman/listinfo/blind-computing_jaws-users.com
>>
>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
>> list
>> just send a blank message to:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To listen to the show archives go to link
>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
>> or
>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>>
>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>>
>> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various
>> List Members At The Following address:
>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>>
>> Visit the archives page at the following address
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>>
>> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the
>> following address for more information:
>> http://jaws-users.com/mailman/listinfo/blind-computing_jaws-users.com
>>
>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man
>> list just send a blank message to:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007
>> 9:34 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various 
> List Members At The Following address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>
> Visit the archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>
> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the following 
> address for more information:
> http://jaws-users.com/

Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?

[spiro]

well it was a bad example.
I will read Ray's article recently posted again. But at the start it talks 
about transistors. That's even more complicated, and maybe a good enough 
example.
Just the simplest chip, far from the pentium chips would be fine.
Thanks

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007, Max Robinson wrote:

> Inductors are all but unheard of in integrated circuits.  They can be made
> by laying down a metal wire in the form of a spiral but it takes up a lot of
> space and is almost never done.  It is possible to wire an amplifier with a
> capacitor so it acts like an inductor.  It is called a gyrator.  Gyrators
> can be used at audio and low radio frequencies.
>
> Regards.
>
> Max.  K 4 O D S.
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net
> Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net
> Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com
>
> To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Boyce, Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 4:47 PM
> Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>
>
>> Hi
>> Our world is full of integrated circuits. You find several of them in
>> computers. For example, most people have probably heard about the
>> microprocessor.
>> The microprocessor is an integrated circuit that processes all
>> information in the computer. It keeps track of what keys are pressed and
>> if the mouse has
>> been moved. It counts numbers and runs programs, games and the operating
>> system. Integrated circuits are also found in almost every modern
>> electrical device
>> such as cars, television sets, CD players, cellular phones, etc. But
>> what is an integrated circuit and what is the history behind it?
>>
>> Electric Circuits
>>
>> The integrated circuit is nothing more than a very advanced electric
>> circuit. An electric circuit is made from different electrical
>> components such as transistors,
>> resistors, capacitors and diodes, that are connected to each other in
>> different ways. These components have different behaviors.
>>
>> The transistor acts like a switch. It can turn electricity on or off, or
>> it can amplify current. It is used for example in computers to store
>> information,
>> or in stereo amplifiers to make the sound signal stronger.
>>
>> The resistor limits the flow of electricity and gives us the possibility
>> to control the amount of current that is allowed to pass. Resistors are
>> used, among
>> other things, to control the volume in television sets or radios.
>>
>> The capacitor collects electricity and releases it all in one quick
>> burst; like for instance in cameras where a tiny battery can provide
>> enough energy to
>> fire the flashbulb.
>>
>> The diode stops electricity under some conditions and allows it to pass
>> only when these conditions change. This is used in, for example,
>> photocells where
>> a light beam that is broken triggers the diode to stop electricity from
>> flowing through it.
>>
>> These components are like the building blocks in an electrical
>> construction kit. Depending on how the components are put together when
>> building the circuit,
>> everything from a burglar alarm to a computer microprocessor can be
>> constructed.
>>
>>
>> The Transistor vs. the Vacuum Tube
>>
>> The vacuum tube and the transistor.
>> ENIAC-The first digital computer
>> Of the components mentioned above, the transistor is the most important
>> one for the development of modern computers. Before the transistor,
>> engineers had
>> to use vacuum tubes. Just as the transistor, the vacuum tube can switch
>> electricity on or off, or amplify a current. So why was the vacuum tube
>> replaced
>> by the transistor? There are several reasons.
>>
>> The vacuum tube looks and behaves very much like a light bulb; it
>> generates a lot of heat and has a tendency to burn out. Also, compared
>> to the transistor
>> it is slow, big and bulky.
>>
>> When engineers tried to build complex circuits using the vacuum tube,
>> they quickly became aware of its limitations. The first digital computer
>> ENIAC, for
>> example, was a huge monster that weighed over thirty tons, and consumed
>> 200 kilowatts of electrical power. It had around 18,000 vacuum tubes
>> that constantly
>> burned out, making it very unreliable.
>>
>> When the transistor was invented in 1947 it was considered a revolution.
>> Small, fast, reliable and effective, it quickly replaced the vacuum
>> tube. Freed
>> from the limitations of the vacuum tube, engineers finally could begin
>> to realize the electrical constructions of their dreams, or could they?
>>
>>
>> The Tyranny of Numbers
>>
>> With the small and effective transistor at their hands, electrical
>> engineers of the 50s saw the possibilities of constructing far more
>> advanced circuits
>> than before. However, as the complexity of the circuits grew, problems
>> started arising.
>>
>> When building a circuit, it is v

[BlindHandyMan] siphon limits

[cliffwilson]

Dear Dan:
I agree that a deep well pump can pump water to great heights, but when 
using a siphon on the down side to help save energy for the pump, I believe any 
vertical distance above thirty-two feet, on the down side, would not result in 
any gain in efficiency, as a vacuum would not result in any negative pressure 
over the ambient air pressure.  
I may have this figured wrong, but I will concede that even a siphon of 32 
feet would help the pump on the up-side of the system.

Yours Truly,

Clifford Wilson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [BlindHandyMan] water to air heat pumps

[Dan Rossi]

Cliff,

Only a suction pump is limited to 32 feet of elevation.  Which is what you 
are probably talking about.  However, you can push water as high as 
you want. 
Thus you can use submersible pumps pretty far down a well.

-- 
Blue skies.
Dan Rossi
Carnegie Mellon University.
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel:(412) 268-9081

Re: [BlindHandyMan] water to air heat pumps

[cliffwilson]

Dear Dale:
I had not thought of using a siphon to take the discharge back down to  at 
least thirty-two feet, to help the pump bring the water up to the heat 
exchange, as I had always intended to also build a water feature, if I pumped 
spring water to my home.  Thirty-two feet is the most you can  use, as I 
believe any more would start to pull a vacuum.  As I recall, the shallow well 
pumps could only pump water  to a depth of thirty feet, more or less, as the 
vacuum generated by the pump  depends on the atmospheric pressure to force the 
water up the pipe.  I believe the same  rule would limit the use of the siphon 
technique.
I believe Max had it correct, as water moving in a closed loop will have as 
much going down as is coming up, so friction would be the only factor  which 
the pump has to overcome.  
One other factor not discussed, is the reduction in noise.  The water 
source heat pumps are much quieter than the air to air units.  As I get older, 
I enjoy quiet when it comes to equipment around the home.  Now, when it comes 
to music, crank it up.

Yours Truly,

Clifford Wilson
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dale Leavens 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] water to air heat pumps


  Hi Clifford,

  With a closed loop system wouldn't you still have to lift the water albeit in 
the loop to the heat exchanger just as you presently lift the water to it? Or 
maybe you are thinking it will operate like a wheel around a horizontal axis 
requiring only a small amount of energy to keep it spinning round the loop once 
the initial momentum is achieved. I don't think it works that way but I don't 
know for sure. Interesting possibility. An open loop system though could work 
similarly, like a siphon, raise the water to the heat exchanger and allow the 
weight of that water to assist the lift of subsequent water as it descends 
pulling fresh water up.

  I have never really thought of that.

  Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Skype DaleLeavens
  Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.

  - Original Message - 
  From: clifford 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 7:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] water to air heat pumps

  Dear Loren:
  My rental home has 1200 square feet of living space on the ground floor, and 
it has a basement, but the basement is not heated and cooled directly.
  The water source heat pump is either two tons or two and a half tons. The 
highest bills are in the coldest part of winter, but the system works well, and 
when compared to electric strip heat, I am sure the system has paid for itself 
in the six years we have had it in operation. Having a six gallon flow of water 
to dispose of, can also be a chance for building a nice water fall, fountain, 
or other water feature. So far, we have only speculated about what we can build 
in that regard.
  The next time I am required to replace my heat pump in my home, I am going to 
opt for a closed loop water source unit, as my home is high enough above the 
spring to make the cost of pumping water up that height, less attractive. 
Moving water through a loop would only involve overcoming the resistance in the 
line, which I calculate would be quite a bit less than pumping vertically.
  One problem facing us at this point is the prolonged drought. Our spring is 
running at less than ten percent of normal flow. We have had to cut back on the 
flow of pumps we use to load tankers, as the combination of the two pumps we 
use,570 gallons per minute , stop the flow from the spring all together. 
Needless to say, we are doing a serious rain dance around these parts.

  Yours Truly,

  Clifford Wilson
  - Original Message - 
  From: Loren Buntemeyer 
  To: Blind Handyman 
  Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 3:44 PM
  Subject: [BlindHandyMan] water to air heat pumps

  Clifford,

  Since I have used a water to air heat pump since 1979, I was curious about 
your setup. You mentioned 6 gallons per minute. How large of unit do you have 
and how many square feet are you cooling? How many gallons per ton or BTU's? 
How old is your heat pump?

  I do not have a underground system, but a 1500 gallon tank with a cooling 
tower. My highest total electric bill for one month, the summer months, is 
about $135. And, that includes cooking, power tools etc. My house is 3200 
Square feet with 1600 up and 1600 down ( walkout basement). 

  Loren

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[BlindHandyMan] Re: Heat pump or heater?

[chiliblindman]

If the temp stays that even on the beach and you haven't needed air 
conditioning yet, why bother now.  The initial cost will never be realized in 
savings with very little need. .bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

[Shane Hecker]

The shower is a sunken shower. The city guy did use a jet, but only at about 
10% of normal pressure. And as soon as he hit the blockage, he stopped because 
he didn't want to fill the house with sewer goo. Also, the washer is no where 
near the shower. It is in the garage. It may be helpful to try and give a 
layout of the house. This discription is going to be from the viewpoint of 
approaching the front of the house. On the far left, there is the garage. Go a 
bit to the right and you find the dining room. A bit further to the right is a 
sidewalk going up to a small portch and then the entrance. To the right of this 
is the guest bathroom and bedroom, then the master. The bathroom with the 
shower is in the master. The washing machine is in the garage. The sewer line 
exits the house below the kitchen, which is behind the dining room. Based on 
information the city guy told me, I believe once the main line enters the 
house, it goes in about 12 feet, then makes a turn. Knowing where the bathrooms 
are, it should be a turn to the right. It was past this turn that the blockage 
was found, which is about 35 to 40 feet in. If it is a low spot in the pipe, is 
there a way you can get to it without tearing up the slab? I'm assuming you 
could dig and find it, but what would that do to the foundation?

Shane

  - Original Message - 
  From: Dale Leavens 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)


  I doubt roots would travel very far under a slab. There isn't the environment 
to attract them, being sheltered it is likely to be pretty dry and covered the 
soil won't usually have much nutrient. A decent leak over time might provide 
moisture and feed to spread far enough to attract the roots I suppose but that 
seems unlikely though not impossible.

  I think you will find that your city building code will specify what sort of 
sewer pipe is now required to connect to their mains. I would imagine A B S or 
some similar plastic.

  Finally, I would be very suspicious that there is a low spot in the pipe 
under the slab where residue is settling out and filling the pipe over time. 
The lighter materials and the water will generally continue to flow over this 
in the upper part of the pipe but as residue forms the turbulence over the 
growing obstruction will cause more sediment to precipitate out. You might 
benefit from running some chemistry down the toilets from time-to-time but 
there is a caveat, in 1968 they may well have still been using cast iron pipe 
which doesn't much like acids. I am not familiar with foam snake it may be 
helpful. If the blockage is, as I suggest, the result of a low spot a 
mechanical snake will be of limited value because once it has punched it's way 
through the opening will be only a little larger than the snake which will 
continue to make it's way through the path of least resistance so won't open it 
up enough for satisfactory drainage or at least not for long.

  Do I understand that the city guy used a jet of water up toward your house? 
If the blockage is, as you think, the wonder to me is that he didn't fill your 
house with streams of sewer goo!

  As I think of it, I wonder about your laundry and where it enters the system 
and if, when the washer discharges it's foam any of that appears up the shower 
drain. Usually too, because of the volume and pump pressure from a washing 
machine any blockage will soon have foamy water squirting out from around the 
discharge hose. This, and the sinks are also well above the water line in 
toilets and even more above the shower or any bath drains or floor drains if 
you have any.

  Never know though, maybe the problem is now solved never to return.

  Oh yes, and watch for salt in iron or steel or brass or copper or bronze 
plumbing too, it will eat it up. The idea of copper sulphate though might help 
discourage roots if in fact that is the problem. Really, you probably want a 
camera inspection.

  Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Skype DaleLeavens
  Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Shane Hecker 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:54 PM
  Subject: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

  I called the city and they sent a crew out. There wasn't a problem on the 
  city side, but the guy was nice and ran his power jet (at about 300 psi or 
  10% of full power) up through the line under my house. He got in about 40 
  feet and managed to clear the blockage. I have no idea what was cleared out, 
  but now everything is working again. I also found out that the sewer line 
  going from the cleanout closest to my house out to the city line is clay. 
  The guy told me that there might be cast iron or pvc under the house. The 
  house was built in 1968. In any event, I want to try and p

[BlindHandyMan] Re efficiency of heat pumps

[chiliblindman]

 Shane, Carrier gives ratings to 105 degrees F.  Unlike a lot of other 
brands that might not give a rating even at 95.  
 Also, if the temp outside is over 100 degrees I am not sure if you want to 
cool your house at 75 unless you never go out.  The body tends to not take the 
change well and you might get sick.  I know people that keep their temp colder 
in the summer than they do in the winter, like 73 to 75 in winter and 68 to 72 
in summer.  They are also the same people that tend to be sick all the time.
 Everyone has their own temp range so it is hard to say what is good, just 
set it to suit you and that is the correct setting. 
bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [BlindHandyMan] Heat pump or heater?

[Dale Leavens]

You are probably in the very best climate for efficient heat pump use but if 
all you will use it for is occasional heating then the cost of replacing what 
already works is unlikely to be worth while.

This is probably something you should consider when/if the gas unit requires 
substantial attention.

Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype DaleLeavens
Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat.


  - Original Message - 
  From: tunecollector 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:33 AM
  Subject: [BlindHandyMan] Heat pump or heater?


  OK, I live on the beach in southern California. I can count on one hand how
  many times in a year the temp drops below 40F. On the other hand, I can
  count how many days go above 80F. I don't have AC and I had put on a floor
  fan maybe a dozen times in the last five years. Here, we pay the second
  highest utility rates in the US.I think Hawaii comes in first. Would I
  really get any utility savings by getting a heat pump as opposed to my
  present gas heater? Would I need the electric strips to supplement the heat
  pump? Now, keep in mind, that after a couple of decades of living on this
  coast, I have turned into a total wimp when it comes to temperature. Below
  55F and I turn blue and above 80F, I star t fanning myself to prevent
  fainting.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)

[Shane Hecker]

The house is in Corpus Christi, Texas.

Shane

  - Original Message - 
  From: Lee A. Stone 
  To: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] sewer problem fixed (for now)



  I am going with Dales idea of finding a plumber with a camera set up. 
  we have had a house with a slab. you could also have a section of pipe 
  which has dropped even just a few inches. . Is this a house in 
  Levitown,LI? Lee

  -- 
  Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy.
  -- Han Solo


   


--


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/976 - Release Date: 8/27/2007 
6:20 PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[BlindHandyMan] Heat pump or heater?

[tunecollector]

OK, I live on the beach in southern California.  I can count on one hand how
many times in a year the temp drops below 40F.  On the other hand, I can
count how many days go above 80F.  I don't have AC and I had put on a floor
fan maybe a dozen times in the last five years.  Here, we pay the second
highest utility rates in the US.I think Hawaii comes in first.  Would I
really get any utility savings by getting a heat pump as opposed to my
present gas heater?  Would I need the electric strips to supplement the heat
pump?  Now, keep in mind, that after a couple of decades of living on this
coast, I have turned into a total wimp when it comes to temperature.  Below
55F and I turn blue and above 80F, I star t fanning myself to prevent
fainting.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?

[Scott Howell]

Yes, agreed. Electric heat isn't efficient even if the heatpump is.  
Its the heater strips that really start to add up in terms of energy  
usage. There has been a number of products offered in the past for  
owners of heatpumps that were to help combat the problem. However,  
most didn't really save any money and in fact ended up costing more.  
There was one device that was basically a heater strip that ran at a  
lower voltage as compared to the regular strips you'd find and it ran  
all the time and its purpose was to warm the air coming out of the  
airhandler. This was to take the temp up enough so you felt slightly  
warmer air from the vents. The units of today have admitedly gotten  
better, but still they are only good to 30 to 40 degrees F as far as I  
can tell.
Of course keeping cost down has always been a concern and conserving  
as much as possible, but now with the rates going up, I'm looking to  
save as much as possible.


Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Aug 27, 2007, at 10:29 PM, Geoff Eden wrote:

> It's probably useful to take a broad look at the efficiency of  
> electric
> heat.  Considering that running a coal generator is only slightly  
> above 30%
> efficiency, hence throwing away 70%.  Then considering the line loss  
> between
> the generator plant and your home, which is often discussed as  
> around 10%.
> Then to further discuss the inefficiency of electrical resistance  
> heating,
> which, I understand is only about 35%, then the whole picture of  
> electrical
> heating fuel waste comes into perspective.
>
> Geoff
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] What Do You Want Information ON?
>
>
> So, lets add anothr question to this. Does it make sense to lower the
> temp at night in the home or leave it set at the same temp day and
> night? The thought is by lowering it 3 to 4 degrees at night while
> your asleep, it would run less, but then if the heatpump has to fire
> up the backup heat source which is likely electric itself and run at
> the same time to raise the temp up the 3 to 4 degrees, have you really
> saved anything.
>
> Scott
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:21 AM, Dan Rossi wrote:
>
>> Actually, I think that a heat pump is supposed to be more efficient
>> than
>> just straight electric heat, but not exactly sure how it works out
>> that
>> way.
>>
>> -- 
>> Blue skies.
>> Dan Rossi
>> Carnegie Mellon University.
>> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Tel: (412) 268-9081
>>
>>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From  
> Various
> List Members At The Following address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>
> Visit the archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>
> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the  
> following
> address for more information:
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>
> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy  
> Man list
> just send a blank message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> To listen to the show archives go to link
> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html
> or
> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/
>
> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is.
> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday
>
> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From  
> Various List Members At The Following address:
> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/
>
> Visit the archives page at the following address
> http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/
>
> If you would like to join the Blind Computing list, then visit the  
> following address for more information:
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>
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>
>
>

Re: [BlindHandyMan] saving on setback of temp

[Scott Howell]

That's about how I looked at it. I actually was thinking more of  
Winter than Summer. I pretty much keep the temperature set at the same  
setting for the Summer. I may try this in the Winter and see how it  
works out.
Will have to careful track the meter readings to get some feel for  
this, but I believe its possible.


Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]