[BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info.
Ray, I need your snooping expertise. I am going to do some research but you have a nack for searching. How do you go about determining how much tubing you would put under a floor to provide heat for a room? I mean, I could probably stick for or five lengths of Copper tubing in each joist bay, but then again, 900 feet of Copper tubing might be a bit much to heat a room. The truly sad thing is that I am supposed to be able to calculate this stuff. Hell, I probably have in the past, but there have been a sufficient number of years between now and my having taken heat transfer and Thermo Dynamics that I just don't remember anymore. Use it or lose it, that is the truth. -- Blue skies. Dan Rossi Carnegie Mellon University. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel:(412) 268-9081 To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info.
the floors by a couple of inches, which can be a problem when remodeling. Some thin electric systems only elevate the floor by about 1/8 inch. Also, the concrete slab of hydronic systems can take a few hours to heat up once they've been turned on. Electric systems usually take between 30 minutes and an hour to heat up. In most cases, electric systems are governed by a timer and a thermostat that homeowners preset with on/off cycles. While the electricity cost of generating 1,000 Btu's may be cheaper with a hydronic system than with an electric system, the way the systems operate plays quite a role in energy costs. Hydronic systems are generally left on for a period of months to accommodate the lengthy heat-up time of the systems. Electrical systems are usually timed to switch on and off according to when the homeowners will be at their house. The many off sessions cut down the cost of electricity. So consider your lifestyle and how you will be using the heating system. Cost of installation depends on the nature of the job. For remodeling projects or single-room installations in new homes, hydronic systems will cost more to install. However, in large jobs such as whole-house applications in new construction, a hydronic system will cost less. Hydronic Installation As mentioned earlier, the tubing in hydronic systems is usually embedded in a concrete slab or a 1 1/2-inch-thick concrete overlay on top of a wood floor. This is usually referred to as a wet installation. The tubing can also be suspended in the space below wooden floors or stapled on top of subfloors, which is commonly called a dry installation. But a concrete or wet installation provides better soundproofing and fireproofing, as well as adds stability and protection to the tubing for a sturdier floor. Almost all tubing for hydronic systems is guaranteed for 25 years, with a lifetime expectancy of 100 years. But the best bet for longevity is that the tubing be installed by an experienced radiant floor contractor. If you're absolutely determined to tackle one of these projects yourself, you can take advantage of some available literature from the RPA website, where you can download installation guidelines in a PDF format. Visit www.radiantpanelassociation.org. A hydronic system usually requires a slab of concrete, and professional installation is recommended. (Photo courtesy Uponor-Wirsbo) From: blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Rossi Sent: Tuesday, 6 February 2007 06:22 To: BlindHandyman@yahoogroups.com Subject: [BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info. Ray, I need your snooping expertise. I am going to do some research but you have a nack for searching. How do you go about determining how much tubing you would put under a floor to provide heat for a room? I mean, I could probably stick for or five lengths of Copper tubing in each joist bay, but then again, 900 feet of Copper tubing might be a bit much to heat a room. The truly sad thing is that I am supposed to be able to calculate this stuff. Hell, I probably have in the past, but there have been a sufficient number of years between now and my having taken heat transfer and Thermo Dynamics that I just don't remember anymore. Use it or lose it, that is the truth. -- Blue skies. Dan Rossi Carnegie Mellon University. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:dr25%40andrew.cmu.edu Tel: (412) 268-9081 ** This message and its attachments may contain legally privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose or use the information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the e-mail. Any content of this message and its attachments which does not relate to the official business of Eraring Energy must be taken not to have been sent or endorsed by Eraring Energy. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. ** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message
RE: [BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info.
Hey Ray, Thanks fore the info. I have been researching this for the last couple of hours, (both Teresa and I took the day off from work to recover after spending two days on our knees scraping at the damn floor). Anyway, looks like it won't be easy to figure out much unless I do some really serious, in depth, research. One thing I read did say that you shouldn't have more than 280 feet of 5/8 inch PEX in a single circuit. 5/8 inch PEX seems to be a good balance between cost, heat transfer, and pump power. These wet underfloor systems run at lower water temps than your regular hot water heating system, but then again, my hot water system doesn't run at a very high temp either. You have to be careful not to run hot water, right up against the underside of a floor or else you may cause the surface of the floor to discolor in a striped pattern where the hot tubes are. It seems obvious that you would have a small air gap under the floor where the hot tubes are. Then a reflective surface below that. Then insolation below that. Some of my questions would be how do you make the transition from joist bay to joist bay? Can you drill a 3/4 inch hole through each joist? Would you have to do some additional support then since you will weaken the joist? How much head loss is there in 280 feet of PEX tubing verses that in a six foot cast iron radiator? Lots of questions, but mostly just for fun as I don't think I can do this without a significant change to my current furnace. Not sure though. Man, I would love to just build a house from scratch with my own two hands, putting in all kinds of neat tech just for fun. Oh well, dreams are fun. -- Blue skies. Dan Rossi Carnegie Mellon University. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel:(412) 268-9081 To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info.
Hi Dan, They usually use PEX these days and you don't have to solder it either. You fix clips to the underside of the floor and usually below that some reflective material and maybe some insulation. You can even zone it . Depending on the application you connect the ends to manifolds at the end so that loops don't have to be continuous. This doesn't answer your question but the task does not require all that copper. Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. - Original Message - From: Dan Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BlindHandyman@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: [BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info. Ray, I need your snooping expertise. I am going to do some research but you have a nack for searching. How do you go about determining how much tubing you would put under a floor to provide heat for a room? I mean, I could probably stick for or five lengths of Copper tubing in each joist bay, but then again, 900 feet of Copper tubing might be a bit much to heat a room. The truly sad thing is that I am supposed to be able to calculate this stuff. Hell, I probably have in the past, but there have been a sufficient number of years between now and my having taken heat transfer and Thermo Dynamics that I just don't remember anymore. Use it or lose it, that is the truth. -- Blue skies. Dan Rossi Carnegie Mellon University. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: (412) 268-9081 To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 4/02/2007 To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [BlindHandyMan] RAY: Radiant floor heating info.
Dale, Yeah, it's just that what goes through my head is often a lot more than I feel like writing down. I understand that PEX can be laid down nice and easy in one continuous flow but you can't make sharp bends so I figure you can only get two rows into each joist bay, just a guess. Whereas, Copper could, in theory, be joined with tighter turns and you could get a lot more rows into each joist bay. That is what was going through my head. That and the thought that if I said would I need to lay down seven rows of PEX in each joist bay someone would have told me that you can't make it turn that tight and you would never get that many S folds in 14 inches, alright alright, 14.5 inches. *GRIN* The real question is how many is enough? One per bay? Seven per bay? There is some set of calculations out there that deals with the water temperature, the heat conductivity of the floor above the tubing, the size of the room, the flow rate of the hot water through the pipes, and a guess at the heat loss from the room, which is a whole different set of calculations. I'm just being lazy and don't feel like digging through 20 year old tests and homework assignments to teach myself all that stuff again. *GRIN* -- Blue skies. Dan Rossi Carnegie Mellon University. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel:(412) 268-9081 To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/blindhandyman@yahoogroups.com/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindhandyman/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
