Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
I disagree- the default in Windows apps seems to be the hidden mode, and it seems counterintuitive to implement windows like scrollbars without mirroring the actual Windows experience. I realize it probably won't be the default mode, but if it's possible to at least leave it as a setting for the users that wish to use it, that would be great. On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 4:28:07 PM UTC-7 Ben Mathwig wrote: > I agree with both of these things. I'm in support of removing the "hidden" > state all together, for all scrollers. > > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org wrote: > >> My own view is that it is user-hostile to fully hide scrollbars, because >> then you have no visual indication that a region of the page is >> scrollable. Though it does seem that this ship has sailed on other OS'es. >> >> Orthogonal to that concern, I think the web platform should try to avoid >> giving different behavior to root and non-root scrollers. So if we decide >> hidden scrollbars are a good idea, then we should hide them for the root >> scroller too (when the cursor leaves the content area). >> >> But I'd ideally like to have only the minimal and full modes, and not the >> hidden mode, for all scrollers. >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:16 PM 'Ben Mathwig' via blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> I'm glad you brought this up, it's something we'd like to get your take >>> on. Windows designed it that way in their official spec, but I personally >>> feel like it creates an accessibility issue. I believe Apple hides the >>> panning indicator on macOS, so I suspect their design inspiration came from >>> there. >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 2:31:07 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for sharing these docs. >>>> >>>> I am curious about the rationale for "Hidden Mode" as described in the >>>> visual >>>> spec >>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. >>>> >>>> Why is this mode desired only for non-root scrollers? >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM Rahul Arakeri >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. >>>>> >>>>> Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks >>>>> good as-is). 😊 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM >>>>> *To:* Chris Harrelson >>>>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>>>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev >>>>> ; Robert Flack ; >>>>> wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; >>>>> input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < >>>>> yshal...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; >>>>> Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig < >>>>> benjamin...@microsoft.com> >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >>>>> Scrollbars. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what >>>>> you think. 😊 >>>>> >>>>> FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs >>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Rahul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM >>>>> *To:* 'Chris Harrelson' >>>>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>>>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev >>>>> ; Robert Flack ; >>>>> wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; >>>>> input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < >>>>> yshal...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; >>>>> Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig <
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
I agree with both of these things. I'm in support of removing the "hidden" state all together, for all scrollers. On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 3:34:35 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org wrote: > My own view is that it is user-hostile to fully hide scrollbars, because > then you have no visual indication that a region of the page is > scrollable. Though it does seem that this ship has sailed on other OS'es. > > Orthogonal to that concern, I think the web platform should try to avoid > giving different behavior to root and non-root scrollers. So if we decide > hidden scrollbars are a good idea, then we should hide them for the root > scroller too (when the cursor leaves the content area). > > But I'd ideally like to have only the minimal and full modes, and not the > hidden mode, for all scrollers. > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:16 PM 'Ben Mathwig' via blink-dev < > blin...@chromium.org> wrote: > >> I'm glad you brought this up, it's something we'd like to get your take >> on. Windows designed it that way in their official spec, but I personally >> feel like it creates an accessibility issue. I believe Apple hides the >> panning indicator on macOS, so I suspect their design inspiration came from >> there. >> >> On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 2:31:07 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org wrote: >> >>> Thanks for sharing these docs. >>> >>> I am curious about the rationale for "Hidden Mode" as described in the >>> visual >>> spec >>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. >>> >>> Why is this mode desired only for non-root scrollers? >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM Rahul Arakeri >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. >>>> >>>> Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks >>>> good as-is). 😊 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM >>>> *To:* Chris Harrelson >>>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >>>> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu >>>> ; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >>>> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >>>> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >>>> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >>>> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >>>> Scrollbars. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello everyone, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what >>>> you think. 😊 >>>> >>>> FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs >>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Rahul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM >>>> *To:* 'Chris Harrelson' >>>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >>>> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu >>>> ; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >>>> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >>>> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >>>> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >>>> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >>>> Scrollbars. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get >>>> everyone on the same page. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep >>>> non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Chris Harrelson >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM >>>> *To:* Rahul Arakeri >>>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>>>
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
My own view is that it is user-hostile to fully hide scrollbars, because then you have no visual indication that a region of the page is scrollable. Though it does seem that this ship has sailed on other OS'es. Orthogonal to that concern, I think the web platform should try to avoid giving different behavior to root and non-root scrollers. So if we decide hidden scrollbars are a good idea, then we should hide them for the root scroller too (when the cursor leaves the content area). But I'd ideally like to have only the minimal and full modes, and not the hidden mode, for all scrollers. On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:16 PM 'Ben Mathwig' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > I'm glad you brought this up, it's something we'd like to get your take > on. Windows designed it that way in their official spec, but I personally > feel like it creates an accessibility issue. I believe Apple hides the > panning indicator on macOS, so I suspect their design inspiration came from > there. > > On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 2:31:07 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing these docs. >> >> I am curious about the rationale for "Hidden Mode" as described in the visual >> spec >> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. >> Why is this mode desired only for non-root scrollers? >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM Rahul Arakeri >> wrote: >> >>> Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. >>> >>> Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks >>> good as-is). 😊 >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM >>> *To:* Chris Harrelson >>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >>> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >>> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >>> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >>> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >>> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >>> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >>> Scrollbars. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> >>> >>> Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what you >>> think. 😊 >>> >>> FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs >>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Rahul >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM >>> *To:* 'Chris Harrelson' >>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >>> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >>> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >>> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >>> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >>> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >>> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >>> Scrollbars. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get >>> everyone on the same page. >>> >>> >>> >>> Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep >>> non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Chris Harrelson >>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM >>> *To:* Rahul Arakeri >>> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >>> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >>> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >>> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >>> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >>> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >>> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >>> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >>> Scrollbars. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < >>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
I'm glad you brought this up, it's something we'd like to get your take on. Windows designed it that way in their official spec, but I personally feel like it creates an accessibility issue. I believe Apple hides the panning indicator on macOS, so I suspect their design inspiration came from there. On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 2:31:07 PM UTC-7 sko...@chromium.org wrote: > Thanks for sharing these docs. > > I am curious about the rationale for "Hidden Mode" as described in the visual > spec > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. > > Why is this mode desired only for non-root scrollers? > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM Rahul Arakeri > wrote: > >> Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. >> >> Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks >> good as-is). 😊 >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM >> *To:* Chris Harrelson >> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> >> >> Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what you >> think. 😊 >> >> FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs >> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM >> *To:* 'Chris Harrelson' >> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get >> everyone on the same page. >> >> >> >> Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep >> non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. >> >> >> >> *From:* Chris Harrelson >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM >> *To:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org>; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; Philip Rogers ; input-dev < >> inpu...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig >> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < >> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >> Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from >> us to move this discussion along. >> >> >> >> Hi Rahul, >> >> >> >> Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval >> from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run >> into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM >> *To:* 'Steve Kobes' >> *Cc:* Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick < >> ikilp...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; >> blin...@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < >> wangx...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; inpu...@chromium.org; >> Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov < >> gerc...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani ; Ben >> Mathwig >> *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to impleme
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Thanks for sharing these docs. I am curious about the rationale for "Hidden Mode" as described in the visual spec <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. Why is this mode desired only for non-root scrollers? On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 4:33 PM Rahul Arakeri wrote: > Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. > > Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks good > as-is). 😊 > > > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > *From:* Rahul Arakeri > *Sent:* Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM > *To:* Chris Harrelson > *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < > ikilpatr...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev ; Robert Flack ; > wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; > input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < > yshalivs...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; > Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig < > benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what you > think. 😊 > > FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> > > > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > *From:* Rahul Arakeri > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM > *To:* 'Chris Harrelson' > *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < > ikilpatr...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev ; Robert Flack ; > wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; > input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < > yshalivs...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; > Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig < > benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get > everyone on the same page. > > > > Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep > non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. > > > > *From:* Chris Harrelson > *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM > *To:* Rahul Arakeri > *Cc:* Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick < > ikilpatr...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev ; Robert Flack ; > wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; > input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < > yshalivs...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; > Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig < > benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < > blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > > Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from us > to move this discussion along. > > > > Hi Rahul, > > > > Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval > from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run > into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. > > > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > *From:* Rahul Arakeri > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM > *To:* 'Steve Kobes' > *Cc:* Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick < > ikilpatr...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < > wangxian...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; > Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov < > gerch...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani ; Ben > Mathwig > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default > scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we > never tested this feature on Linux). > > For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as > outlined in the visual spec > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0> > . > > > > Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fe
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Just checking in to see if anyone got a chance to review the doc. Please let us know if you have any questions/concerns (or if it looks good as-is). 😊 Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 5:48 PM To: Chris Harrelson Cc: Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick ; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev ; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Hello everyone, Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what you think. 😊 FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM To: 'Chris Harrelson' mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> Cc: Steve Kobes mailto:sko...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; Philip Rogers mailto:p...@chromium.org>>; input-dev mailto:input-...@chromium.org>>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get everyone on the same page. Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. From: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM To: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>> Cc: Steve Kobes mailto:sko...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; Philip Rogers mailto:p...@chromium.org>>; input-dev mailto:input-...@chromium.org>>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>> wrote: Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from us to move this discussion along. Hi Rahul, Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM To: 'Steve Kobes' mailto:sko...@chromium.org>> Cc: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we never tested this feature on Linux). For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as outlined in the visual spec<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0>. Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.go
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Hello everyone, Here’s the design doc. Please have a look at it and let us know what you think. 😊 FluentScrollbarsDesignDoc - Google Docs<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YDigd2XlAw0Lj5cQ5S-mGzntLZghLRUJ_wKLsCBxsuw/edit> Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Tuesday, February 8, 2022 9:24 AM To: 'Chris Harrelson' Cc: Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick ; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev ; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get everyone on the same page. Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. From: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM To: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>> Cc: Steve Kobes mailto:sko...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; Philip Rogers mailto:p...@chromium.org>>; input-dev mailto:input-...@chromium.org>>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>> wrote: Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from us to move this discussion along. Hi Rahul, Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM To: 'Steve Kobes' mailto:sko...@chromium.org>> Cc: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we never tested this feature on Linux). For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as outlined in the visual spec<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0>. Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0> of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoftedgeinsider.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fcanary&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BvICikSWgyvetSfBzwR6EAAqdSmxU6EXosFJSqdzCM%3D&reserved=0>. (Experimental flag edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollb
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Sounds good Chris, we’ll send out a class design doc shortly to get everyone on the same page. Re Manuel: Thanks for your input, we’ll come up with a plan to keep non-overlay scrollbars tests running as well.. From: Chris Harrelson Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 10:28 PM To: Rahul Arakeri Cc: Steve Kobes ; Ian Kilpatrick ; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev ; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; Philip Rogers ; input-dev ; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>> wrote: Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from us to move this discussion along. Hi Rahul, Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM To: 'Steve Kobes' mailto:sko...@chromium.org>> Cc: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we never tested this feature on Linux). For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as outlined in the visual spec<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0>. Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wjV1rSuW5VI7QIGa5Zn%2BniKvbllT%2B81iqq1zjF62Zyo%3D&reserved=0> of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsoftedgeinsider.com%2Fen-us%2Fdownload%2Fcanary&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C2ac1a1970c5243b86f7508d9e7a78ba7%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637795529122747147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=X%2BvICikSWgyvetSfBzwR6EAAqdSmxU6EXosFJSqdzCM%3D&reserved=0>. (Experimental flag edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style). From: Steve Kobes mailto:sko...@chromium.org>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM To: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>> Cc: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode may creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some degree b
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Overlay scrollbars have caused issues testing things in the past: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/10972 It'd be good to think about what we're going to do with these kind of tests, and as Steve says maybe it'd be good to keep tests running with overlay and non-overlay scrollbars to avoid regressions. Cheers, Rego On 01/02/2022 20:42, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote: > Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default > scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we > never tested this feature on Linux). > > For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as > outlined in the visual spec > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. > > > > Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual > styling > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit> > of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel > free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary > <https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/canary>. > (Experimental flag /edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style/). > > > > *From:* Steve Kobes > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM > *To:* Rahul Arakeri > *Cc:* Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick > ; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu > ; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; > Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov > ; Sahir Vellani ; > Ben Mathwig > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the > risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode > may creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some > degree both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.) > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev > mailto:input-...@chromium.org>> wrote: > > Thanks Ian :) > > > > Re Chris: > > There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between > dark/light modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the > code should just work. Note that we've never really tested this > feature on Linux so we do not have an exhaustive list of stuff that > will not work on Linux. > > > > *From:* Chris Harrelson <mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> > *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM > *To:* Ian Kilpatrick <mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> > *Cc:* Rahul Arakeri <mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>>; Mike Taylor <mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org > <mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack <mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu <mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org > <mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org > <mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy > mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga > Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; > Sahir Vellani <mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig > mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: > Fluent Scrollbars. > > > > Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that > we have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? > > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick > mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> wrote: > > Exciting! > > > > Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or > scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other > platforms (e.g. they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be > a web compat concern as most websites handle this already. > > > > An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see > more sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that > scrollbars are always zero width (as this is now the default on all > platforms except linux?) and as a result more content going forward > being broken for those users who opt-out. > > (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an > interesting side effect). > > > > Ian > > > >
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 10:00 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from us > to move this discussion along. > Hi Rahul, Since this is an intent to implement you don't need any official approval from an API owner. Feel free to start landing code. Let me know if you run into any issues, happy to help unblock progress. > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > *From:* Rahul Arakeri > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM > *To:* 'Steve Kobes' > *Cc:* Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick < > ikilpatr...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < > wangxian...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; > Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov < > gerch...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani ; Ben > Mathwig > *Subject:* RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default > scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we > never tested this feature on Linux). > > For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as > outlined in the visual spec > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit> > . > > > > Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit> > of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel > free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary > <https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/canary>. > (Experimental flag *edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style*). > > > > *From:* Steve Kobes > *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM > *To:* Rahul Arakeri > *Cc:* Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick < > ikilpatr...@chromium.org>; Mike Taylor ; > blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu < > wangxian...@chromium.org>; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; > Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov < > gerch...@microsoft.com>; Sahir Vellani ; Ben > Mathwig > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the > risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode may > creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some degree > both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.) > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev < > input-...@chromium.org> wrote: > > Thanks Ian :) > > > > Re Chris: > > There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between dark/light > modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the code should just > work. Note that we've never really tested this feature on Linux so we do > not have an exhaustive list of stuff that will not work on Linux. > > > > *From:* Chris Harrelson > *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM > *To:* Ian Kilpatrick > *Cc:* Rahul Arakeri ; Mike Taylor < > miketa...@chromium.org>; blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack < > fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu ; > p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < > yshalivs...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; > Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig < > benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we > have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? > > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick > wrote: > > Exciting! > > > > Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or > scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. > they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as > most websites handle this already. > > > > An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more > sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are > always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except > linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those > users who opt-out. > > (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting > side effect). > > > > Ian > > > > On Fri, Jan 28
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Just checking in on this.. Please let us know if you need anything from us to move this discussion along. Thanks, Rahul From: Rahul Arakeri Sent: Tuesday, February 1, 2022 11:43 AM To: 'Steve Kobes' Cc: Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick ; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we never tested this feature on Linux). For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as outlined in the visual spec<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit> of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary<https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/canary>. (Experimental flag edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style). From: Steve Kobes mailto:sko...@chromium.org>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM To: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>> Cc: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>>; Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode may creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some degree both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.) On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev mailto:input-...@chromium.org>> wrote: Thanks Ian :) Re Chris: There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between dark/light modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the code should just work. Note that we've never really tested this feature on Linux so we do not have an exhaustive list of stuff that will not work on Linux. From: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM To: Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> Cc: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> wrote: Exciting! Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as most websites handle this already. An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those users who opt-out. (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting side effect). Ian On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>> wrote: Hi Mike, Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: https://chromestatus.com/feature/569
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Re Steve: For Linux, we don't have a strong preference on the default scrollbar mode (and we don’t yet know the scope of work needed since we never tested this feature on Linux). For Windows however, we recommend having minimal mode as the default as outlined in the visual spec<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit>. Re all: Please let us know if we all have consensus on the visual styling<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit> of the scrollbars. If you want to see the feature in action, please feel free to check out Microsoft Edge Canary<https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/canary>. (Experimental flag edge://flags/#edge-overlay-scrollbars-win-style). From: Steve Kobes Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 11:38 AM To: Rahul Arakeri Cc: Chris Harrelson ; Ian Kilpatrick ; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode may creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some degree both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.) On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev mailto:input-...@chromium.org>> wrote: Thanks Ian :) Re Chris: There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between dark/light modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the code should just work. Note that we've never really tested this feature on Linux so we do not have an exhaustive list of stuff that will not work on Linux. From: Chris Harrelson mailto:chris...@chromium.org>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM To: Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> Cc: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>>; Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>>; blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> wrote: Exciting! Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as most websites handle this already. An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those users who opt-out. (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting side effect). Ian On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>> wrote: Hi Mike, Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5693137379917824&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C56c7c213db54433a31d408d9e4f14171%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637792547151618118%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Aip5B8Tt1H%2FfRmK95ZpVweqeEqlYiCyD%2F%2FgI%2BBSqoHo%3D&reserved=0> And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the page’s layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be in “minimal mode” (aka overlay scrollbars). These will not take up any layout space (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). The users will however still have an option to “Always show scrollbars” via an OS setting. These will take up layout space (similar to what Chromium scrollbars do today). Thanks, Rahul From: Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM To: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Keeping non-overlay by default on Linux would be one way to mitigate the risk that Ian mentions, namely that bugs specific to non-overlay mode may creep in and not be noticed quickly. (This concern applies to some degree both to bugs in websites, and bugs in Chrome.) On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 2:23 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via input-dev < input-...@chromium.org> wrote: > Thanks Ian :) > > > > Re Chris: > > There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between dark/light > modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the code should just > work. Note that we've never really tested this feature on Linux so we do > not have an exhaustive list of stuff that will not work on Linux. > > > > *From:* Chris Harrelson > *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM > *To:* Ian Kilpatrick > *Cc:* Rahul Arakeri ; Mike Taylor < > miketa...@chromium.org>; blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack < > fla...@chromium.org>; wangxianzhu ; > p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy < > yshalivs...@microsoft.com>; Olga Gerchikov ; > Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig < > benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> > *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we > have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? > > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick > wrote: > > Exciting! > > > > Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or > scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. > they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as > most websites handle this already. > > > > An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more > sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are > always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except > linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those > users who opt-out. > > (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting > side effect). > > > > Ian > > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < > blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > > > Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: > https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824 > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5693137379917824&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C817e539d742d4385b7ce08d9e2b83ddc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637790103244416081%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OxzFhvJvPuT7TDvEdpE%2FK%2FsxCg%2FmF0m0d3RjDSReUS0%3D&reserved=0> > > And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the page’s > layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be in “minimal mode” > (aka overlay scrollbars). These will *not* take up any layout space > (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). > > The users will however still have an option to “Always show scrollbars” > via an OS setting. These *will* take up layout space (similar to what > Chromium scrollbars do today). > > > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > *From:* Mike Taylor > *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM > *To:* Rahul Arakeri > *Cc:* blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; > wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; > input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; > Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < > sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Hi Rahul, > > > > Would you mind creating a chromestatus entry for this intent? (See "Step > 0" at http://dev.chromium.org/blink/launching-features > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C817e539d742d4385b7ce08d9e2b83ddc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637790103244416081%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=SYUo43YZer2OiWUGnb08YPRv%2FIjDo2YCpGQuFzSko2s%3D&reserved=0> > for a link). > > > > Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about scrollbars) - will > this proposed change have an impact on a page's layout? > > > > thanks, > Mike > > > > On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arake
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Thanks Ian :) Re Chris: There will be some OS wiring missing (like switching between dark/light modes, "Always show scrollbars”, etc) but most of the code should just work. Note that we've never really tested this feature on Linux so we do not have an exhaustive list of stuff that will not work on Linux. From: Chris Harrelson Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 3:45 PM To: Ian Kilpatrick Cc: Rahul Arakeri ; Mike Taylor ; blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick mailto:ikilpatr...@chromium.org>> wrote: Exciting! Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as most websites handle this already. An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those users who opt-out. (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting side effect). Ian On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>> wrote: Hi Mike, Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchromestatus.com%2Ffeature%2F5693137379917824&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C817e539d742d4385b7ce08d9e2b83ddc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637790103244416081%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=OxzFhvJvPuT7TDvEdpE%2FK%2FsxCg%2FmF0m0d3RjDSReUS0%3D&reserved=0> And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the page’s layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be in “minimal mode” (aka overlay scrollbars). These will not take up any layout space (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). The users will however still have an option to “Always show scrollbars” via an OS setting. These will take up layout space (similar to what Chromium scrollbars do today). Thanks, Rahul From: Mike Taylor mailto:miketa...@chromium.org>> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM To: Rahul Arakeri mailto:arak...@microsoft.com>> Cc: blink-dev@chromium.org<mailto:blink-dev@chromium.org>; Robert Flack mailto:fla...@chromium.org>>; wangxianzhu mailto:wangxian...@chromium.org>>; p...@chromium.org<mailto:p...@chromium.org>; input-...@chromium.org<mailto:input-...@chromium.org>; Yaroslav Shalivskyy mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com>>; Olga Gerchikov mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com>>; Sahir Vellani mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>>; Ben Mathwig mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Hi Rahul, Would you mind creating a chromestatus entry for this intent? (See "Step 0" at http://dev.chromium.org/blink/launching-features<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7C817e539d742d4385b7ce08d9e2b83ddc%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637790103244416081%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=SYUo43YZer2OiWUGnb08YPRv%2FIjDo2YCpGQuFzSko2s%3D&reserved=0> for a link). Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about scrollbars) - will this proposed change have an impact on a page's layout? thanks, Mike On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote: Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Contact emails Rahul Arakeri: arak...@microsoft.com<mailto:arak...@microsoft.com> Yaroslav Shalivskyy: yshalivs...@microsoft.com<mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com> Sahir Vellani: sahir.vell...@microsoft.com<mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com> Olga Gerchikov: gerch...@microsoft.com<mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com> Ben Mathwig: benjamin.math...@microsoft.com<mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> Visual Spec https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Re Linux: I'm hoping we can just use the same code on Linux so that we have overlay scrollbars everywhere. Rahul, would that work code-wise? On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 3:40 PM Ian Kilpatrick wrote: > Exciting! > > Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or > scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. > they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as > most websites handle this already. > > An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more > sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are > always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except > linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those > users who opt-out. > (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting > side effect). > > Ian > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < > blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> >> >> Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: >> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824 >> >> And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the page’s >> layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be in “minimal mode” >> (aka overlay scrollbars). These will *not* take up any layout space >> (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). >> >> The users will however still have an option to “Always show scrollbars” >> via an OS setting. These *will* take up layout space (similar to what >> Chromium scrollbars do today). >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rahul >> >> >> >> *From:* Mike Taylor >> *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM >> *To:* Rahul Arakeri >> *Cc:* blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; >> wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; >> input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; >> Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < >> sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig > > >> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent >> Scrollbars. >> >> >> >> Hi Rahul, >> >> >> >> Would you mind creating a chromestatus entry for this intent? (See "Step >> 0" at http://dev.chromium.org/blink/launching-features >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kyz0DUUmdkzme6t8k2JiratsHd7AIb1lMnyAVMaKnEo%3D&reserved=0> >> for a link). >> >> >> >> Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about scrollbars) - >> will this proposed change have an impact on a page's layout? >> >> >> >> thanks, >> Mike >> >> >> >> On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote: >> >> *Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.* >> >> >> >> *Contact emails* >> >> Rahul Arakeri: arak...@microsoft.com >> >> Yaroslav Shalivskyy: yshalivs...@microsoft.com >> >> Sahir Vellani: sahir.vell...@microsoft.com >> >> Olga Gerchikov: gerch...@microsoft.com >> >> Ben Mathwig: benjamin.math...@microsoft.com >> >> >> >> *Visual Spec* >> >> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit >> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=8dYuVqC4XA6X7wfHMx3gg12xLJpTpuPovAbZUsaJlzQ%3D&reserved=0> >> >> >> >> *Summary* >> >> This proposal is to modernize the Chromium scrollbars (both overlay and >> non-overlay) to fit the Windows 11 Fluent design language. As a part of >> this effort, we are proposing to update the visual appearance along with >> some changes to how users interact with overlay scrollbars. >> >> >> >> *Motivation* >> >> As the rest of Windows has been embracing WinUI and native Fluent >> controls, certain n
Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Exciting! Adding onto Rahul's answer here a little - overlay scrollbars (or scrollbars which take to zero space) already exist on other platforms (e.g. they are the default on OSX). It won't/shouldn't be a web compat concern as most websites handle this already. An interesting side effect of this will likely be that we'll see more sites (who are built after this change goes in) assume that scrollbars are always zero width (as this is now the default on all platforms except linux?) and as a result more content going forward being broken for those users who opt-out. (To be clear there isn't much we can do about this - but an interesting side effect). Ian On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 2:51 PM 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev < blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > > > Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: > https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824 > > And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the page’s > layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be in “minimal mode” > (aka overlay scrollbars). These will *not* take up any layout space > (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). > > The users will however still have an option to “Always show scrollbars” > via an OS setting. These *will* take up layout space (similar to what > Chromium scrollbars do today). > > > > Thanks, > > Rahul > > > > *From:* Mike Taylor > *Sent:* Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM > *To:* Rahul Arakeri > *Cc:* blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; > wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; > input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; > Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani < > sahir.vell...@microsoft.com>; Ben Mathwig > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent > Scrollbars. > > > > Hi Rahul, > > > > Would you mind creating a chromestatus entry for this intent? (See "Step > 0" at http://dev.chromium.org/blink/launching-features > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kyz0DUUmdkzme6t8k2JiratsHd7AIb1lMnyAVMaKnEo%3D&reserved=0> > for a link). > > > > Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about scrollbars) - will > this proposed change have an impact on a page's layout? > > > > thanks, > Mike > > > > On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote: > > *Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.* > > > > *Contact emails* > > Rahul Arakeri: arak...@microsoft.com > > Yaroslav Shalivskyy: yshalivs...@microsoft.com > > Sahir Vellani: sahir.vell...@microsoft.com > > Olga Gerchikov: gerch...@microsoft.com > > Ben Mathwig: benjamin.math...@microsoft.com > > > > *Visual Spec* > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=8dYuVqC4XA6X7wfHMx3gg12xLJpTpuPovAbZUsaJlzQ%3D&reserved=0> > > > > *Summary* > > This proposal is to modernize the Chromium scrollbars (both overlay and > non-overlay) to fit the Windows 11 Fluent design language. As a part of > this effort, we are proposing to update the visual appearance along with > some changes to how users interact with overlay scrollbars. > > > > *Motivation* > > As the rest of Windows has been embracing WinUI and native Fluent > controls, certain non-XAML apps like Chromium-based browsers still use the > traditional (Win32 looking) scrollbars. As such, we believe that the visual > appearance of scrollbars could use an update in the interest of maintaining > homogeneity with the rest of Windows. > > In a nutshell, we’re proposing that the default scrollbars should act more > like overlay scrollbars, be thinner, have insets and rounded edges. Users > will still have an option to select non overlay scrollbars via the "Always > show scrollbars" OS setting. Non overlay scrollbars will also be restyled > to match Windows theme. For details on scrollbar styling and state > transitions, please see the visual spec
RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars.
Hi Mike, Sure, I’ve created a chromestatus entry here: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5693137379917824 And yes, this proposed change is expected to have an impact on the page’s layout. In it’s default state, the scrollbars will be in “minimal mode” (aka overlay scrollbars). These will not take up any layout space (whereas, today in Chromium, the default scrollbars take up 17px AFAIK). The users will however still have an option to “Always show scrollbars” via an OS setting. These will take up layout space (similar to what Chromium scrollbars do today). Thanks, Rahul From: Mike Taylor Sent: Friday, January 28, 2022 12:20 PM To: Rahul Arakeri Cc: blink-dev@chromium.org; Robert Flack ; wangxianzhu ; p...@chromium.org; input-...@chromium.org; Yaroslav Shalivskyy ; Olga Gerchikov ; Sahir Vellani ; Ben Mathwig Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [blink-dev] Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Hi Rahul, Would you mind creating a chromestatus entry for this intent? (See "Step 0" at http://dev.chromium.org/blink/launching-features<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.chromium.org%2Fblink%2Flaunching-features&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kyz0DUUmdkzme6t8k2JiratsHd7AIb1lMnyAVMaKnEo%3D&reserved=0> for a link). Also, out of curiosity (because I don't know much about scrollbars) - will this proposed change have an impact on a page's layout? thanks, Mike On 1/28/22 2:50 PM, 'Rahul Arakeri' via blink-dev wrote: Intent to implement: Fluent Scrollbars. Contact emails Rahul Arakeri: arak...@microsoft.com<mailto:arak...@microsoft.com> Yaroslav Shalivskyy: yshalivs...@microsoft.com<mailto:yshalivs...@microsoft.com> Sahir Vellani: sahir.vell...@microsoft.com<mailto:sahir.vell...@microsoft.com> Olga Gerchikov: gerch...@microsoft.com<mailto:gerch...@microsoft.com> Ben Mathwig: benjamin.math...@microsoft.com<mailto:benjamin.math...@microsoft.com> Visual Spec https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw/edit<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1EpJnWAcPCxBQo6zPGR1Tg1NACiIJ-6dk7cYyK1DhBWw%2Fedit&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=8dYuVqC4XA6X7wfHMx3gg12xLJpTpuPovAbZUsaJlzQ%3D&reserved=0> Summary This proposal is to modernize the Chromium scrollbars (both overlay and non-overlay) to fit the Windows 11 Fluent design language. As a part of this effort, we are proposing to update the visual appearance along with some changes to how users interact with overlay scrollbars. Motivation As the rest of Windows has been embracing WinUI and native Fluent controls, certain non-XAML apps like Chromium-based browsers still use the traditional (Win32 looking) scrollbars. As such, we believe that the visual appearance of scrollbars could use an update in the interest of maintaining homogeneity with the rest of Windows. In a nutshell, we’re proposing that the default scrollbars should act more like overlay scrollbars, be thinner, have insets and rounded edges. Users will still have an option to select non overlay scrollbars via the "Always show scrollbars" OS setting. Non overlay scrollbars will also be restyled to match Windows theme. For details on scrollbar styling and state transitions, please see the visual spec linked above. Also, please note that since some HTML controls (like and ) depend on the ScrollbarThemes(s) that are being refreshed, they too will also get the new scrollbars. Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? No, this is aimed at Windows for now. However, it can be made available on Linux too. Ongoing technical constraints None. Tracking bug https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1292117<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbugs.chromium.org%2Fp%2Fchromium%2Fissues%2Fdetail%3Fid%3D1292117&data=04%7C01%7Carakeri%40microsoft.com%7Cdb3d12f9cc6a4f36908f08d9e29b810a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637789979807067709%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ua3DrUTYMQj8q0VRQb53paMcbqJrT7TrmodxOvIfVX0%3D&reserved=0> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an ema
