Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Yoav Weiss]

LGTM3

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 11:13 AM Mike West  wrote:

> I agree with Rick's analysis here. Given the purely-negative nature of
> this OT, there's little risk in this burning-in unless we ship it, in which
> case we want it to burn in.  Dropping the usage limitation for this OT
> LGTM2.
>
> -mike
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 7:34 PM Mike Taylor 
> wrote:
>
>> On 9/30/22 1:32 PM, Rick Byers wrote:
>>
>> As I understand it, this OT is entirely about taking away functionality
>> (grants nothing new which a site might take a dependency on). Therefore I
>> don't think the usage limits are providing much, if any, value. At the same
>> time, I can see the value of being able to test this upcoming behavior at a
>> large scale.
>>
>> So, with API owner hat on, I propose we just turn them off for this trial.
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> My my API owner hat off (because my name is attached to this project), I
>> agree. I think the larger testing benefits outweigh any possible risks (and
>> can't really think of any, tbqh).
>>
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 3:03 PM Nir M  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> Nir from Meta and Noah's peer.
>>>
>>> would it be possible to give an estimate or a guideline on the
>>> permissible magnitude of usage for the Opt-In trial (the one that forces
>>> the full reduction of the UserAgent) available?
>>> As we would like to conduct an experiment on that, and not deviate from
>>> the 0.5% restriction of global page loads, we need an idea of how many
>>> users will be able to be getting this experimental behavior.
>>> would love to hear more details on that if you could provide.
>>>
>>> Link to the limitation reference on Origin-Trial:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/GoogleChrome/OriginTrials/blob/gh-pages/developer-guide.md#6-is-there-any-restriction-on-which-websites-can-sign-up-to-use-experimental-features
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Nir
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:27:20 PM UTC+3 mike...@chromium.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Noah,

 Thanks for reaching out - we've received a request just yesterday from
 another partner who also expressed interest in an extension, so I will work
 on an Intent to Extend Experiment in the next few days and we'll see what
 the Blink API Owners think. :)

 thanks,
 Mike

 On 7/26/22 1:40 PM, Noah Lemen wrote:

 Are there any plans to extend this Origin Trial? We (Meta) are
 considering using it to test the impact of UA reduction, but just noticed
 that its "end date" is tomorrow, and was marked with availability ending
 after version 103.
 On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:29:45 PM UTC-4 abe...@chromium.org
 wrote:

> Just an FYI, the blog post has been updated to give instructions on
> how to participate in the User-Agent Reduction Origin Trial as a
> third-party embed:
> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/#how-to-participate-in-the-origin-trial-as-a-third-party-embed
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> A blog post just went out for this OT:
>> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent
>>> Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved 
>>> this
>>> OT for the M95 release.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent
 Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved 
 this
 OT for the M95 release.

 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad 
 wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not
>> really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really 
>> about
>> any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer 
>> trial.
>>
>> If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits
>> arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the 
>> compat
>> risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it 
>> makes
>> no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT.
>>
>> I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of
>> the header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about 
>> masking
>> potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 

Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Mike West]

I agree with Rick's analysis here. Given the purely-negative nature of this
OT, there's little risk in this burning-in unless we ship it, in which case
we want it to burn in.  Dropping the usage limitation for this OT LGTM2.

-mike


On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 7:34 PM Mike Taylor  wrote:

> On 9/30/22 1:32 PM, Rick Byers wrote:
>
> As I understand it, this OT is entirely about taking away functionality
> (grants nothing new which a site might take a dependency on). Therefore I
> don't think the usage limits are providing much, if any, value. At the same
> time, I can see the value of being able to test this upcoming behavior at a
> large scale.
>
> So, with API owner hat on, I propose we just turn them off for this trial.
> Thoughts?
>
> My my API owner hat off (because my name is attached to this project), I
> agree. I think the larger testing benefits outweigh any possible risks (and
> can't really think of any, tbqh).
>
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 3:03 PM Nir M  wrote:
>
>> Hi Mike,
>> Nir from Meta and Noah's peer.
>>
>> would it be possible to give an estimate or a guideline on the
>> permissible magnitude of usage for the Opt-In trial (the one that forces
>> the full reduction of the UserAgent) available?
>> As we would like to conduct an experiment on that, and not deviate from
>> the 0.5% restriction of global page loads, we need an idea of how many
>> users will be able to be getting this experimental behavior.
>> would love to hear more details on that if you could provide.
>>
>> Link to the limitation reference on Origin-Trial:
>>
>> https://github.com/GoogleChrome/OriginTrials/blob/gh-pages/developer-guide.md#6-is-there-any-restriction-on-which-websites-can-sign-up-to-use-experimental-features
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> Nir
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:27:20 PM UTC+3 mike...@chromium.org wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Noah,
>>>
>>> Thanks for reaching out - we've received a request just yesterday from
>>> another partner who also expressed interest in an extension, so I will work
>>> on an Intent to Extend Experiment in the next few days and we'll see what
>>> the Blink API Owners think. :)
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On 7/26/22 1:40 PM, Noah Lemen wrote:
>>>
>>> Are there any plans to extend this Origin Trial? We (Meta) are
>>> considering using it to test the impact of UA reduction, but just noticed
>>> that its "end date" is tomorrow, and was marked with availability ending
>>> after version 103.
>>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:29:45 PM UTC-4 abe...@chromium.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Just an FYI, the blog post has been updated to give instructions on how
 to participate in the User-Agent Reduction Origin Trial as a third-party
 embed:
 https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/#how-to-participate-in-the-origin-trial-as-a-third-party-embed

 On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:

> A blog post just went out for this OT:
> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent
>> Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this
>> OT for the M95 release.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent
>>> Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved 
>>> this
>>> OT for the M95 release.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!

 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers 
 wrote:

> I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not
> really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really 
> about
> any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer 
> trial.
>
> If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits
> arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the 
> compat
> risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it 
> makes
> no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT.
>
> I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of the
> header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about masking
> potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.
>
> Rick
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:02 AM Mike West 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the clarifications, Ali. This looks pretty reasonable
>>> to me. LGTM1 % the below:
>>>
>>> I would recommend 

Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Rick Byers]

As I understand it, this OT is entirely about taking away functionality
(grants nothing new which a site might take a dependency on). Therefore I
don't think the usage limits are providing much, if any, value. At the same
time, I can see the value of being able to test this upcoming behavior at a
large scale.

So, with API owner hat on, I propose we just turn them off for this trial.
Thoughts?

Rick

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 3:03 PM Nir M  wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> Nir from Meta and Noah's peer.
>
> would it be possible to give an estimate or a guideline on the permissible
> magnitude of usage for the Opt-In trial (the one that forces the full
> reduction of the UserAgent) available?
> As we would like to conduct an experiment on that, and not deviate from
> the 0.5% restriction of global page loads, we need an idea of how many
> users will be able to be getting this experimental behavior.
> would love to hear more details on that if you could provide.
>
> Link to the limitation reference on Origin-Trial:
>
> https://github.com/GoogleChrome/OriginTrials/blob/gh-pages/developer-guide.md#6-is-there-any-restriction-on-which-websites-can-sign-up-to-use-experimental-features
>
>
>
> thanks,
> Nir
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:27:20 PM UTC+3 mike...@chromium.org wrote:
>
>> Hi Noah,
>>
>> Thanks for reaching out - we've received a request just yesterday from
>> another partner who also expressed interest in an extension, so I will work
>> on an Intent to Extend Experiment in the next few days and we'll see what
>> the Blink API Owners think. :)
>>
>> thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>> On 7/26/22 1:40 PM, Noah Lemen wrote:
>>
>> Are there any plans to extend this Origin Trial? We (Meta) are
>> considering using it to test the impact of UA reduction, but just noticed
>> that its "end date" is tomorrow, and was marked with availability ending
>> after version 103.
>> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:29:45 PM UTC-4 abe...@chromium.org
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just an FYI, the blog post has been updated to give instructions on how
>>> to participate in the User-Agent Reduction Origin Trial as a third-party
>>> embed:
>>> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/#how-to-participate-in-the-origin-trial-as-a-third-party-embed
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>>
 A blog post just went out for this OT:
 https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/

 On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:

> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent
> Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this
> OT for the M95 release.
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent
>> Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this
>> OT for the M95 release.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not
 really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really 
 about
 any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer 
 trial.

 If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits
 arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the 
 compat
 risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it 
 makes
 no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT.

 I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of the
 header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about masking
 potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.

 Rick

 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad 
 wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:02 AM Mike West 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the clarifications, Ali. This looks pretty reasonable
>> to me. LGTM1 % the below:
>>
>> I would recommend that you adjust the design doc to remove the
>> reference to "a client hint token that will reduce the User-Agent 
>> header",
>> as it doesn't sound like that's what you're aiming to experiment 
>> with. My
>> understanding of your response is that you'll only adjust the UA in 
>> the
>> presence of the Origin Trial token.
>>
>
> I updated
> 
> the design doc to make the point clear that the UA will only be 
> reduced in
> the presence of 

Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Nir M]

Hi Mike, 
Nir from Meta and Noah's peer.

would it be possible to give an estimate or a guideline on the permissible 
magnitude of usage for the Opt-In trial (the one that forces the full 
reduction of the UserAgent) available? 
As we would like to conduct an experiment on that, and not deviate from the 
0.5% restriction of global page loads, we need an idea of how many users 
will be able to be getting this experimental behavior.
would love to hear more details on that if you could provide. 

Link to the limitation reference on Origin-Trial: 
https://github.com/GoogleChrome/OriginTrials/blob/gh-pages/developer-guide.md#6-is-there-any-restriction-on-which-websites-can-sign-up-to-use-experimental-features



thanks, 
Nir


On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:27:20 PM UTC+3 mike...@chromium.org wrote:

> Hi Noah,
>
> Thanks for reaching out - we've received a request just yesterday from 
> another partner who also expressed interest in an extension, so I will work 
> on an Intent to Extend Experiment in the next few days and we'll see what 
> the Blink API Owners think. :)
>
> thanks,
> Mike
>
> On 7/26/22 1:40 PM, Noah Lemen wrote:
>
> Are there any plans to extend this Origin Trial? We (Meta) are considering 
> using it to test the impact of UA reduction, but just noticed that its "end 
> date" is tomorrow, and was marked with availability ending after version 
> 103.
> On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:29:45 PM UTC-4 abe...@chromium.org 
> wrote:
>
>> Just an FYI, the blog post has been updated to give instructions on how 
>> to participate in the User-Agent Reduction Origin Trial as a third-party 
>> embed: 
>> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/#how-to-participate-in-the-origin-trial-as-a-third-party-embed
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>
>>> A blog post just went out for this OT: 
>>> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>>
 An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent 
 Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this 
 OT for the M95 release.

 On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:

> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent 
> Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this 
> OT for the M95 release.
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not 
>>> really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really 
>>> about 
>>> any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer 
>>> trial. 
>>>
>>> If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits 
>>> arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the 
>>> compat 
>>> risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it 
>>> makes 
>>> no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT. 
>>>
>>> I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of the 
>>> header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about masking 
>>> potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad  
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:02 AM Mike West  
 wrote:

> Thanks for the clarifications, Ali. This looks pretty reasonable 
> to me. LGTM1 % the below:
>
> I would recommend that you adjust the design doc to remove the 
> reference to "a client hint token that will reduce the User-Agent 
> header", 
> as it doesn't sound like that's what you're aiming to experiment 
> with. My 
> understanding of your response is that you'll only adjust the UA in 
> the 
> presence of the Origin Trial token.
>

 I updated 
 
  
 the design doc to make the point clear that the UA will only be 
 reduced in 
 the presence of the OT token, and I clarified the role of the new 
 client 
 hint in all this.  Thanks for the feedback!
  

>
> With regard to the OT schedule, ~6 months from M94 would take us 
> more or less through M100. In 
> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-api-owners-discuss/c/dhfejxAtj84/m/vr889GowAgAJ,
>  
> we agreed (but I don't think documented... I'll fix that) that we'd 
> be 
> taking ~4 milestones as a typical OT length as 

Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Noah Lemen]

Are there any plans to extend this Origin Trial? We (Meta) are considering 
using it to test the impact of UA reduction, but just noticed that its "end 
date" is tomorrow, and was marked with availability ending after version 
103.
On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 5:29:45 PM UTC-4 abe...@chromium.org wrote:

> Just an FYI, the blog post has been updated to give instructions on how to 
> participate in the User-Agent Reduction Origin Trial as a third-party 
> embed: 
> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/#how-to-participate-in-the-origin-trial-as-a-third-party-embed
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> A blog post just went out for this OT: 
>> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>
>>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent Reduction 
>>> OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this OT for the 
>>> M95 release.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>>
 An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent 
 Reduction OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this 
 OT for the M95 release.

 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers  
> wrote:
>
>> I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not 
>> really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really 
>> about 
>> any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer trial.
>>
>> If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits 
>> arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the 
>> compat 
>> risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it 
>> makes 
>> no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT. 
>>
>> I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of the 
>> header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about masking 
>> potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:02 AM Mike West  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the clarifications, Ali. This looks pretty reasonable to 
 me. LGTM1 % the below:

 I would recommend that you adjust the design doc to remove the 
 reference to "a client hint token that will reduce the User-Agent 
 header", 
 as it doesn't sound like that's what you're aiming to experiment with. 
 My 
 understanding of your response is that you'll only adjust the UA in 
 the 
 presence of the Origin Trial token.

>>>
>>> I updated 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> the design doc to make the point clear that the UA will only be reduced 
>>> in 
>>> the presence of the OT token, and I clarified the role of the new 
>>> client 
>>> hint in all this.  Thanks for the feedback!
>>>  
>>>

 With regard to the OT schedule, ~6 months from M94 would take us 
 more or less through M100. In 
 https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-api-owners-discuss/c/dhfejxAtj84/m/vr889GowAgAJ,
  
 we agreed (but I don't think documented... I'll fix that) that we'd be 
 taking ~4 milestones as a typical OT length as we shift into a 4-week 
 cadence.

 That said, it sounds like you want to use this experiment as a 
 lead-in to a behavior change and deprecation trial, and holding you to 
 4 
 milestones would put you squarely in the holiday season of M98. I'm 
 comfortable with y'all extending this out a little longer than usual, 
 but 
 I'd appreciate two other API owners weighing in to confirm that plan.

 -mike


 On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 4:55 PM Ali Beyad  
 wrote:

> Hey Mike,
>
> Thanks for your questions.  Answers inline.
>
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 9:15 AM Mike West  
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Ali,
>>
>> There are a few details here that I'm not sure I understand.
>>
>> 1.  The linked design doc describes opting into UA reduction 
>> through both an origin trial, and a client hint-based opt-in. Does 
>> this 
>> intent include both mechanisms? Or is it only about the origin trial?
>>
>
> The I2E is for an origin trial that would control two behaviors:
>
>1. The Javascript 

Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Ali Beyad]

Just an FYI, the blog post has been updated to give instructions on how to
participate in the User-Agent Reduction Origin Trial as a third-party
embed:
https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/#how-to-participate-in-the-origin-trial-as-a-third-party-embed

On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 9:39 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:

> A blog post just went out for this OT:
> https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent Reduction
>> OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this OT for the
>> M95 release.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>
>>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent Reduction
>>> OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this OT for the
>>> M95 release.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!

 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers  wrote:

> I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not
> really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really about
> any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer trial.
>
> If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits
> arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the compat
> risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it makes
> no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT.
>
> I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of the
> header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about masking
> potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.
>
> Rick
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:02 AM Mike West  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the clarifications, Ali. This looks pretty reasonable to
>>> me. LGTM1 % the below:
>>>
>>> I would recommend that you adjust the design doc to remove the
>>> reference to "a client hint token that will reduce the User-Agent 
>>> header",
>>> as it doesn't sound like that's what you're aiming to experiment with. 
>>> My
>>> understanding of your response is that you'll only adjust the UA in the
>>> presence of the Origin Trial token.
>>>
>>
>> I updated
>> 
>> the design doc to make the point clear that the UA will only be reduced 
>> in
>> the presence of the OT token, and I clarified the role of the new client
>> hint in all this.  Thanks for the feedback!
>>
>>
>>>
>>> With regard to the OT schedule, ~6 months from M94 would take us
>>> more or less through M100. In
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-api-owners-discuss/c/dhfejxAtj84/m/vr889GowAgAJ,
>>> we agreed (but I don't think documented... I'll fix that) that we'd be
>>> taking ~4 milestones as a typical OT length as we shift into a 4-week
>>> cadence.
>>>
>>> That said, it sounds like you want to use this experiment as a
>>> lead-in to a behavior change and deprecation trial, and holding you to 4
>>> milestones would put you squarely in the holiday season of M98. I'm
>>> comfortable with y'all extending this out a little longer than usual, 
>>> but
>>> I'd appreciate two other API owners weighing in to confirm that plan.
>>>
>>> -mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 4:55 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>>
 Hey Mike,

 Thanks for your questions.  Answers inline.

 On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 9:15 AM Mike West 
 wrote:

> Hey Ali,
>
> There are a few details here that I'm not sure I understand.
>
> 1.  The linked design doc describes opting into UA reduction
> through both an origin trial, and a client hint-based opt-in. Does 
> this
> intent include both mechanisms? Or is it only about the origin trial?
>

 The I2E is for an origin trial that would control two behaviors:

1. The Javascript getters for user agent data (e.g.
navigator.userAgent)
2. The new Client Hint `Sec-CH-UA-Reduced` that would indicate
to the origin that the HTTP header "User-Agent" contains a reduced 
 value,
not the full UA string.


> 2.  Does a top-level document's opt-in to the origin trial control
> the UA headers received by requests made from documents it embeds? 
> That is,
> if a page at A opts-into the OT, and embeds a page from B that does 
> not

Re: [blink-dev] Re: Intent to Experiment: User Agent Reduction Origin Trial

[Ali Beyad]

A blog post just went out for this OT:
https://developer.chrome.com/blog/user-agent-reduction-origin-trial/

On Thu, Aug 12, 2021 at 9:47 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:

> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent Reduction
> OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this OT for the
> M95 release.
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 4:02 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>
>> An update on this: it will be too rushed to get the User-Agent Reduction
>> OT into the M94 branch cutoff (this Thursday), so we moved this OT for the
>> M95 release.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:39 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback and the LGTMs, everyone!
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 6:30 PM Rick Byers  wrote:
>>>
 I agree this OT is quite different from a regular OT, there's not
 really a "burn-in risk" to be worried about since this isn't really about
 any new functionality sites want access to. So LGTM3 for a longer trial.

 If necessary I'd also be supportive of expanding usage limits
 arbitrarily. The more usage we can get of this trial, the lower the compat
 risk will be of making the breaking change later. So in this case it makes
 no sense to worry about excessive usage of the OT.

 I'm glad to hear the inherited JS semantics will match that of the
 header. Like for the header, I'd otherwise be worried about masking
 potential compat issues if that JS APIs were unaffected.

 Rick

 On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 11:18 AM Ali Beyad  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021 at 4:02 AM Mike West  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the clarifications, Ali. This looks pretty reasonable to
>> me. LGTM1 % the below:
>>
>> I would recommend that you adjust the design doc to remove the
>> reference to "a client hint token that will reduce the User-Agent 
>> header",
>> as it doesn't sound like that's what you're aiming to experiment with. My
>> understanding of your response is that you'll only adjust the UA in the
>> presence of the Origin Trial token.
>>
>
> I updated
> 
> the design doc to make the point clear that the UA will only be reduced in
> the presence of the OT token, and I clarified the role of the new client
> hint in all this.  Thanks for the feedback!
>
>
>>
>> With regard to the OT schedule, ~6 months from M94 would take us more
>> or less through M100. In
>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-api-owners-discuss/c/dhfejxAtj84/m/vr889GowAgAJ,
>> we agreed (but I don't think documented... I'll fix that) that we'd be
>> taking ~4 milestones as a typical OT length as we shift into a 4-week
>> cadence.
>>
>> That said, it sounds like you want to use this experiment as a
>> lead-in to a behavior change and deprecation trial, and holding you to 4
>> milestones would put you squarely in the holiday season of M98. I'm
>> comfortable with y'all extending this out a little longer than usual, but
>> I'd appreciate two other API owners weighing in to confirm that plan.
>>
>> -mike
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 4:55 PM Ali Beyad  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Mike,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your questions.  Answers inline.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 9:15 AM Mike West 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey Ali,

 There are a few details here that I'm not sure I understand.

 1.  The linked design doc describes opting into UA reduction
 through both an origin trial, and a client hint-based opt-in. Does this
 intent include both mechanisms? Or is it only about the origin trial?

>>>
>>> The I2E is for an origin trial that would control two behaviors:
>>>
>>>1. The Javascript getters for user agent data (e.g.
>>>navigator.userAgent)
>>>2. The new Client Hint `Sec-CH-UA-Reduced` that would indicate
>>>to the origin that the HTTP header "User-Agent" contains a reduced 
>>> value,
>>>not the full UA string.
>>>
>>>
 2.  Does a top-level document's opt-in to the origin trial control
 the UA headers received by requests made from documents it embeds? 
 That is,
 if a page at A opts-into the OT, and embeds a page from B that does not
 opt-in, what UA headers will requests initiated from B contain?

>>>
>>> The plan was for the requests sent for embedded page B to also
>>> include the reduced UA string along with the `Sec-CH-UA-Reduced` Client
>>> Hint, even if B is not opted-in to the Origin Trial.  This would be
>>> accomplished through setting "allow same-origin and cross-origin"
>>> Permission Policy for the `Sec-CH-UA-Reduced` client hint.  The feeling 
>>> was
>>> that, it would