Re: [board-discuss] MCC questions ..
Hi Italo, Italo Vignoli wrote on 10/09/2020 00:58: > On 9/9/20 11:29 PM, Cor Nouws wrote: > >> This is a very interesting point. 4k people in Weblate, so that would be >> 350 persons or so on average for every language that LibreOffice supports? > > Although I have a degree in humanities, I am still capable of handling > basic operations: 4000 divided by 140 active language projects gives as > a result 28.6, quite a smaller figure. Even if we consider only the 119 > available languages, the figure is 33.6. Sure - stupid mistake of me. Thanks for helping me out here ;) Still the number of people that seems to be involved is interesting. Also because the policy is: focusing on getting translators to apply for membership. >>> I think that a solution to this issue is to reach out to native language >>> communities, especially outside Europe, where the relationship with the >>> core group is less strong. > >> I think we have to recognize that the number of 4k people there is very >> high. Even if say 10% would contribute (...) it is unrealistic to expect >> that their membership will help with a balanced, strong governance of >> the foundation. > > According to the statutes, if they contribute they can become TDF > members. Statutes do not mention at all the way their membership can > help a balanced and strong governance of the foundation. And in any > case, how each TDF member helps a balanced and strong governance falls > under the personal judgement, and here each one may have a completely > different point of view. For me there is no (single) good way, nor a less good way, to help LibreOffice. Also more trivial, non regular contributions are helping LibreOffice. >> Yet, having them on our side showing support, spreading the word, is >> important. And the same applies in the area of e.g. marketing and >> design. We do want to value the support also from people that help on a >> booth or do a local presentation 2, 3 times a year and have them engaged. >> Is it necessary to try to make them all member? Growing membership is >> not a goal of the community. > > My opinion is completely different here, and I think there are several > other people who share my point of view. Actually, several people asked > about ideas to grow the membership by involving more contributors. I fully agree here. During the time I served in the MC, I've been doing a lot to reach out to people that are involved somehow. Either direct, or thinking about opportunities with the other MC members. It is not 'just more members', rather more contributors, doing non-trivial work regularly, that counts. >> More important is that the board of >> trustees is composed in a way, that this supports that people who >> are doing the hard and essential work of development will also be >> leading their own work. We cannot afford that the meritocracy >> disappears; this is undesired. > > Sorry, but I completely disagree here. Having a board of trustees based > only on developers would be as bad as having a board of trustees without > developers, and would kill meritocracy in both cases. It is important to get everyone involved in one way or another; I think I didn't want to suggest to have a developer-only centered membership :) Also the work on the marketing-plan indicate we have a challenge in finding the right balance, keeping the community healthy, or.. How do you see that? Thanks, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Second Short Résumé
Hi, if I draw a resume on the discussion in the thread 'MCC questions' I saw basically only contributions from members that are already core people of the foundation administration bodies or stand / stood as candidates for these bodies. I already mentioned that TDF currently has more than 200 members, but only a few of them (see above) contribute to the discussion(s). Thus TDF has not an issue with the quantity of members, but with the involvement of them in the discussion process / the democratic process. The first question should be, how to activate members to get a more active role in the decision making of TDF (that was one reason to create TDF as a membership organization). Another issues of TDF is the inbalance. Some think that everything is about development and developers are key (and everything else is 'Gedöns'. And the next issue is that inside the developing area of LibreOffice there is a domination from one company. There is no real diverse eco system yet (and since years). And this leads to the attempt to dominate TDF and to blame the statutes if they get in the way here, something that damages TDF. And for a broad discussion and participation the used language (in the process) maybe a big issue for many members, because they are not native English speaker. Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi, Am 08.09.20 um 14:23 schrieb Cor Nouws: > Hi, > > Muhammet Kara wrote on 05/09/2020 15:55: >> Hi Andreas & all, >> >> On 8/31/20 9:06 PM, Andreas Mantke wrote: >>> Maybe a look into the second sentence of § 12 is also of interest here. >>> The MC initiate and supervise the board elections. >>> >>> a) Could lead to a conflict of interest? >> It is hard to say 'never' to such things with many aspects, but I can't >> think of a general case right now. One needs to resign from the MC >> before nominating for the BoD elections, and he/she is out of the MC >> loop immediately. And it is no longer possible to have an effect on the >> election process any more. > Of course I've seen the process and the situation a few times during the > many years that I served in the MC. > Given the number op people involved in the MC, looking at the election > process, multiple people supervising it, the way we discuss in openness, > etc. the change that one MC member influences the elections is in my > experience rather hypothetical. maybe you didn't get the point. It's a heavy thread to the foundation body MC, if you create the impression that it is used to get a mandate in a 'higher' / 'better' (more powerful or what ever you think) foundation body. And especially if you stay in one foundation body (during the elections) as long as you get the mandate in the other foundation body (with safety net). Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] MCC questions ..
Hi, Italo Vignoli wrote: Yet, having them on our side showing support, spreading the word, is important. And the same applies in the area of e.g. marketing and design. We do want to value the support also from people that help on a booth or do a local presentation 2, 3 times a year and have them engaged. Is it necessary to try to make them all member? Growing membership is not a goal of the community. My opinion is completely different here, and I think there are several other people who share my point of view. Actually, several people asked about ideas to grow the membership by involving more contributors. Someone who supports TDF's mission on a repeated basis, potentially even sacrificing their vacation or weekend to be present at a booth, talking about the things we do and ideals we share, at several occasions per year, fulfills quite some conditions for being a TDF member indeed. More important is that the board of trustees is composed in a way, that this supports that people who are doing the hard and essential work of development will also be leading their own work. We cannot afford that the meritocracy disappears; this is undesired. Sorry, but I completely disagree here. Having a board of trustees based only on developers would be as bad as having a board of trustees without developers, and would kill meritocracy in both cases. The key message is that we all need each other. Without developers, there will be no software that can be tested by QA. Without QA, there will be no stable software available on our download servers. Without infra, there will be no download servers. Without marketing, nobody knows about our software available for download. Without administration, nobody pays for the servers where people can do all these things. All contributors, paid or volunteers, have their share in what TDF does - no one is more or less important than others. Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
