Re: [board-discuss] Design team leads
Hi Charles, Mirek, Am 19.06.2014 19:13, schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: Hello Mirek, all, I'm no longer a board member So let us look what the board member told us in former days: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/msg02104.html I think it was (and is) a good description of what we all want. -- Grüße k-j Member of TheDocumentFoundation http://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/members/ http://de.libreoffice.org http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Design team leads
Hi Mirek, On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 05:56:35PM +0200, Mirek M. wrote: > Astron told me that the idea to have positions within the design team was > not well-received and that I should discuss it with you. What do you find > problematic about having positions within the team? > > To be clear, leads would be there to make sure that things get done, that > the process by which they get done produces the best results, and to > resolve controversial issues if they arise. as others have aleady expressed, electing such titles and granting them on extended timeframes has historically proven to be a hazard. I believe in "With great power comes great responsibility", or corollary: power should always be based on current resposibilities. To give you an example, Ubuntu has the concept of a patch pilot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#Patch_Pilots whos prime responsibility is to welcome newcomers over a certain timeframe (a day/a week). There is a natural authority derived from those doing duty on those, without any need for granting titles or elections. It also usually keeps those most involved with growing and progressing the team by doing onboarding work -- which admittedly often is not the most attractive task -- in high regard and prevents "title-envy" as everyone knows the work attached to the authority. Now, I dont know if and how that can be translated to the design team. One (likely stupid) idea would be to have an email alias for onboarding newcomers and anyone decently skilled(*) can join that alias and help newcomers asking questions to it. In general, if things are not completely broken in the project, those who do the most work there in helping others should naturally grow authority in the design project. Then again, the same thing should work on a mailing list -- but a onboarding mail alias _might_ make more obvious who is doing most in onboarding newcomers and who is mostly following his or her own agenda(**). Just my two eurocents -- I admittedly dont have to deep an insight into the design team structure. Best, Bjoern (*) use common sense here, like for direct commit access for developers (**) which might be perfectly fine, but isnt the best prerequisite for leadership work -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Design team leads
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Mirek M. wrote: > Hi, > Astron told me that the idea to have positions within the design team was > not well-received and that I should discuss it with you. What do you find > problematic about having positions within the team? > > To be clear, leads would be there to make sure that things get done, that > the process by which they get done produces the best results, and to resolve > controversial issues if they arise. Just to pile up on what has already said: 'lead' has a loaded history in the project so is the bestowing of 'title'. That being said, as a team, the notion of coordinator is not offensive per se, and as long as it is a de facto acknowledgement of a actual function and not a de jure title it is perfectly fine imo. But one is such coordinator because he/she is actually 'coordinating' with the approval and agreement of the people being coordinated (no, no need for an election or such.. if you need a formal election it is already a 'fail') This is a natural extension of the meritocratic principle at the core of TDF. Norbert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [board-discuss] Design team leads
Hello Mirek, all, I'm no longer a board member, but let me just chime in for a second. Le Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:38:24 +0200, Cor Nouws a écrit : > Mirek M. wrote (19-06-14 18:18) > > What if we called them "experts" instead? > > Moderator / key-contact / coordinator / .. > > > It needs to be clear to newcomers that they're the go-to people for > > certain tasks within the design team, and that requires a > > semi-formal mention on e.g. the wiki. Actually what is not wanted -based on our past experience at the time of the old OpenOffice.org- are permanent or semi-permanent titles that are granted from the top and are not easily withdrawable in case of inactivity or a problem. As long as it is understood that there's someone in charge for this or for that and that it works well within your team, go ahead and don't worry too much about the title. Best regards, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-founder, The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint Mobile Number: +33 (0)6 98 65 54 24. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Fwd: [board-discuss] Design team leads
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Le 19/06/2014 18:38, Cor Nouws a écrit : > Mirek M. wrote (19-06-14 18:18) >> What if we called them "experts" instead? > > Moderator / key-contact / coordinator / .. I think coordinator gives a good pictures of what you described of the roles on the Design list. > >> It needs to be clear to newcomers that they're the go-to people >> for certain tasks within the design team, and that requires a >> semi-formal mention on e.g. the wiki. > > Yep! + 1 :) Cheers Sophie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJToxktAAoJEPL4wtZQX4TTPmAH/i0HhvuoT/ZcErEGhaW/zoxZ pMttvxRUE4DICs6LR/bn0wTpDdZG7D5yC45P0z1e2qV7Q8C3bzSe+PTePqD421oZ 6Soi6pFP8ZiwcrfMbIP5n4WDF76Kp6dTd8822oTJOJLmRT3X4hlpdwnpY/bzs7DK LYrrOgZ9NG2ScHPAg8GCuXWeSbMZ2t9x57sunGiPmhMv5Ld35SxotWR7Mapi0ft2 nIHH+lwG7ZzSkFWmJJJx9po5SFGPnhrVyG/FT6RRldXfLMPbALUbK9FkOLTAHqpd xdlHgLCQr/8I1oLeo9LtAwfx0maBAIjxMQI5ge+XuiSK5wHVnUAwQi2094P7ZoA= =5LyL -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Fwd: [board-discuss] Design team leads
Mirek M. wrote (19-06-14 18:18) > What if we called them "experts" instead? Moderator / key-contact / coordinator / .. > It needs to be clear to newcomers that they're the go-to people for > certain tasks within the design team, and that requires a semi-formal > mention on e.g. the wiki. Yep! -- Cor Nouws GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 - vrijwilliger http://nl.libreoffice.org - volunteer http://www.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Fwd: [board-discuss] Design team leads
What if we called them "experts" instead? It needs to be clear to newcomers that they're the go-to people for certain tasks within the design team, and that requires a semi-formal mention on e.g. the wiki. 2014-06-19 18:14 GMT+02:00 Michael Meeks : Hi Mirek, > > On Thu, 2014-06-19 at 17:56 +0200, Mirek M. wrote: > > Astron told me that the idea to have positions within the design team > > was not well-received and that I should discuss it with you. What do > > you find problematic about having positions within the team? > > :-) so - it's a good question. In my experience putting a badge > marked > "Leader" on someone doesn't per-se make them a leader - indeed, you know > who the leader is by whether they have followers; indeed - putting the > badge on the wrong person bears significant risk. > > > To be clear, leads would be there to make sure that things get done, > > that the process by which they get done produces the best results, and > > to resolve controversial issues if they arise. > > Of course, if the team want to informally agree that people have > responsibility and/or deeper wisdom in certain areas and defer to their > insight there - then surely that makes sense :-) eg. in the code we have > subject area experts who are listened to more than elsewhere. > > Does that work for you ? of course, you can call each other what > you > like =) I'm just concerned about the "team lead" description spreading > and/or being used by people to describe themselves in slides, > collateral, cards, marketing etc. =) Can the same thing be achieved > without a semi-formal title ? > > ATB, > > Michael. > > -- > michael.me...@collabora.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot > >
[board-discuss] Design team leads
Hi, Astron told me that the idea to have positions within the design team was not well-received and that I should discuss it with you. What do you find problematic about having positions within the team? To be clear, leads would be there to make sure that things get done, that the process by which they get done produces the best results, and to resolve controversial issues if they arise.
