Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi
Am 26.05.20 um 17:14 schrieb Paolo Vecchi:
> measure the level of nerdiness
I like this "level of nerdiness" :-)
"How wold you estimate your level of nerdiness on a scale from 0 ("Comuters?
wtf is that") to 10 ("I only use programs I wrote myself")
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Uwe Altmann
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Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 5/22/20 8:05 PM, Andras Timar wrote: > I disagree. It's a myth. Yes, it can be hard, when firewalls, load > balancers, 5 users etc. are involved. It's the case when one needs > professional support. But for the hobbyist, how hard is it to install > CODE with a few clicks in Univention, or to follow my "5 minute" guides? > > https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/quick-tryout-owncloud-docker/ > https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/quick-tryout-nextcloud-docker/ I started that, and in tracking down what triggered the error messages I was seeing, concluded I'd have to run configure, make, make install, or a similar sequence for half a dozen major components of the distro I use. I'm not into the ARCH way of doing things. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 5/26/20 1:51 PM, Paolo Vecchi wrote: > > > On 26/05/2020 15:43, Thorsten Behrens wrote: >> Paolo Vecchi wrote: >>> 6 As individual users would you like to make a donation to TDF >>> specifically to support the development of LibreOffice Online? >>> >> We can't do that. > Is that a technical issue? > Not even as a selection box in the donation page specifying if they have > a preference to support LibreOffice desktop or Online? Donations earmarked for specific projects, that are almost outside the scope of the organisation, can create legal issues that are extremely expensive to correct. Go talk to a lawyer that specialises in German Charity law, for more specifics, as it relates specifically to the Document Foundation. A lawyer in the US that specialises in 501(c)3 organisations, can outline the issues within the US, which, whilst similar, can have very different consequences in Germany. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On May 26, 2020 6:10:44 AM PDT, Paolo Vecchi wrote: >4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial >stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? Further, Stallman is actually not very technically proficient these days and makes for a poor example of a 'God-tier' hacker. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Agree El 2020-05-26 11:02, Heiko Tietze escribió: Always good to have bike-shedding questions in such a list ;-). First, we have to agree on such a survey including what exactly we want to learn and which questions we have to ask. The proficiency self-estimation is just a way to split answers into more or less experienced people. So back to Stallman/Thorvalds/Musk/Trump, the better option is maybe "I'm a professional system administrator" (whatever we put there, it's clear that this is the maximum option). On 26.05.20 16:52, Paolo Vecchi wrote: On 26/05/2020 16:09, Brett Cornwall wrote: On May 26, 2020 6:10:44 AM PDT, Paolo Vecchi wrote: 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? Further, Stallman is actually not very technically proficient these days and makes for a poor example of a 'God-tier' hacker. :D True. So shall we settle for Linus Torvalds or there are other suggestions? Paolo -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Just having a bit of fun :-) I'm OK with any terminology you want to use to measure the level of nerdiness of the users. Paolo On 26/05/2020 17:02, Heiko Tietze wrote: > Always good to have bike-shedding questions in such a list ;-). First, we > have to agree on such a survey including what exactly we want to learn and > which questions we have to ask. The proficiency self-estimation is just a way > to split answers into more or less experienced people. So back to > Stallman/Thorvalds/Musk/Trump, the better option is maybe "I'm a professional > system administrator" (whatever we put there, it's clear that this is the > maximum option). > > On 26.05.20 16:52, Paolo Vecchi wrote: >> On 26/05/2020 16:09, Brett Cornwall wrote: >>> On May 26, 2020 6:10:44 AM PDT, Paolo Vecchi >>> wrote: 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? >>> Further, Stallman is actually not very technically proficient these days >>> and makes for a poor example of a 'God-tier' hacker. >> :D True. >> >> So shall we settle for Linus Torvalds or there are other suggestions? >> >> Paolo >> -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Always good to have bike-shedding questions in such a list ;-). First, we have to agree on such a survey including what exactly we want to learn and which questions we have to ask. The proficiency self-estimation is just a way to split answers into more or less experienced people. So back to Stallman/Thorvalds/Musk/Trump, the better option is maybe "I'm a professional system administrator" (whatever we put there, it's clear that this is the maximum option). On 26.05.20 16:52, Paolo Vecchi wrote: > > On 26/05/2020 16:09, Brett Cornwall wrote: >> >> On May 26, 2020 6:10:44 AM PDT, Paolo Vecchi >> wrote: >>> 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial >>> stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? >> Further, Stallman is actually not very technically proficient these days and >> makes for a poor example of a 'God-tier' hacker. > :D True. > > So shall we settle for Linus Torvalds or there are other suggestions? > > Paolo > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 26/05/2020 16:55, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote: > El 2020-05-26 09:10, Paolo Vecchi escribió: >> That's a very good proposal Heiko. >> >> Just some amendments: >> >> 1.1 >> (I guess only a few will answer LibreOffice Online as AFAIK isn't that >> easy to build) >> Maybe we should also add Collabora Code and Collabora Online? >> I have several instances with Collabora Code as at present it's the only >> available on platforms like Univention. >> >> Maybe the following sounds better? >> 2 2 Should enterprises (and even individuals) be able to deploy their >> own LibreOffice Online to have a self-hosted/cloud based collaborative >> office suite? > > Indeed > >> 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial >> stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? > > Why not just saying a 'tech guru'. Also that could be a good option but it would be cool if Linus actually comes along to give his feedback ticking that box :-) > >> We could also add the following questions to see if individuals would >> sponsor the project and business users want/need paid for support >> services? >> >> 6 As individual users would you like to make a donation to TDF >> specifically to support the development of LibreOffice Online? >> >> 7 As a business user would you prefer to use the paid for versions of >> LibreOffice Online delivered and supported by partner organisations? >> >> Ciao >> >> Paolo >> >> On 26/05/2020 14:43, Heiko Tietze wrote: >>> Thanks for the input. The draft for a survey is on Nextcloud >>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/ZCX4wrx3wipr5mQ >>> >>> Framing the questionnaire as input for future development we might >>> get a feeling what percentage of users is interested in LOOL. And >>> hopefully some have experienced success or failed and can reply >>> what's needed for a one-click installation. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Heiko >>> > -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-26 09:10, Paolo Vecchi escribió: That's a very good proposal Heiko. Just some amendments: 1.1 (I guess only a few will answer LibreOffice Online as AFAIK isn't that easy to build) Maybe we should also add Collabora Code and Collabora Online? I have several instances with Collabora Code as at present it's the only available on platforms like Univention. Maybe the following sounds better? 2 2 Should enterprises (and even individuals) be able to deploy their own LibreOffice Online to have a self-hosted/cloud based collaborative office suite? Indeed 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? Why not just saying a 'tech guru'. We could also add the following questions to see if individuals would sponsor the project and business users want/need paid for support services? 6 As individual users would you like to make a donation to TDF specifically to support the development of LibreOffice Online? 7 As a business user would you prefer to use the paid for versions of LibreOffice Online delivered and supported by partner organisations? Ciao Paolo On 26/05/2020 14:43, Heiko Tietze wrote: Thanks for the input. The draft for a survey is on Nextcloud https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/ZCX4wrx3wipr5mQ Framing the questionnaire as input for future development we might get a feeling what percentage of users is interested in LOOL. And hopefully some have experienced success or failed and can reply what's needed for a one-click installation. Cheers, Heiko -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 26/05/2020 16:09, Brett Cornwall wrote: > > On May 26, 2020 6:10:44 AM PDT, Paolo Vecchi > wrote: >> 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial >> stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? > Further, Stallman is actually not very technically proficient these days and > makes for a poor example of a 'God-tier' hacker. :D True. So shall we settle for Linus Torvalds or there are other suggestions? Paolo -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 26/05/2020 15:43, Thorsten Behrens wrote: > Paolo Vecchi wrote: >> 6 As individual users would you like to make a donation to TDF >> specifically to support the development of LibreOffice Online? >> > We can't do that. Is that a technical issue? Not even as a selection box in the donation page specifying if they have a preference to support LibreOffice desktop or Online? Question 7 doesn't present the same issue? > > Cheers, > > -- Thorsten Paolo -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Paolo Vecchi wrote: > 6 As individual users would you like to make a donation to TDF > specifically to support the development of LibreOffice Online? > We can't do that. Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi all, On 26/05/2020 14:59, Cor Nouws wrote: > > One thing we need to consider: as agreed last Friday in the board > meeting, there will be a public discussion on LOOL and ecosystem first, > before we start implementing solutions. And for that discussion, Paolo, > Franklin, Thorsten and Michael are preparing the start document, as > agreed in that meeting too. > ... > Greetings, > Cor > > Things are changing fast and while we talked about an option of having 4 non marketing experts writing, pretty much, a marketing document a new option has been proposed to speed up the process and improve the quality of result. We are now looking at the option to start presenting the draft of the plan at next Board meeting, if we can make it on time, so that everybody can join in to improve it but I'll leave this types of official announcements to our chairman. In the meantime I personally welcome all initiatives, like yours Heiko, that will help in getting more feedback from the community as they will help us in improving the project. Ciao Paolo -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
That's a very good proposal Heiko. Just some amendments: 1.1 (I guess only a few will answer LibreOffice Online as AFAIK isn't that easy to build) Maybe we should also add Collabora Code and Collabora Online? I have several instances with Collabora Code as at present it's the only available on platforms like Univention. Maybe the following sounds better? 2 2 Should enterprises (and even individuals) be able to deploy their own LibreOffice Online to have a self-hosted/cloud based collaborative office suite? 4 I think lately Richard Stallman has been involved in controversial stuff. Maybe it's safer to use Linus Torvalds to avoid comments? We could also add the following questions to see if individuals would sponsor the project and business users want/need paid for support services? 6 As individual users would you like to make a donation to TDF specifically to support the development of LibreOffice Online? 7 As a business user would you prefer to use the paid for versions of LibreOffice Online delivered and supported by partner organisations? Ciao Paolo On 26/05/2020 14:43, Heiko Tietze wrote: > Thanks for the input. The draft for a survey is on Nextcloud > https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/ZCX4wrx3wipr5mQ > > Framing the questionnaire as input for future development we might get a > feeling what percentage of users is interested in LOOL. And hopefully some > have experienced success or failed and can reply what's needed for a > one-click installation. > > Cheers, > Heiko > -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi Heiko, Heiko Tietze wrote on 26/05/2020 14:43: > Thanks for the input. The draft for a survey is on Nextcloud > https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/ZCX4wrx3wipr5mQ Thanks. Good start! One thing we need to consider: as agreed last Friday in the board meeting, there will be a public discussion on LOOL and ecosystem first, before we start implementing solutions. And for that discussion, Paolo, Franklin, Thorsten and Michael are preparing the start document, as agreed in that meeting too. Now there is (on a quick look) at least one question in the survey, of which the answer clearly depends on the information that the submitter has. "Shall enterprises (and even individuals) can deploy their own LibreOffice Online to have a cloud based collaborative office suite?" > Framing the questionnaire as input for future development we might > get a feeling what percentage of users is interested in LOOL. And > hopefully some have experienced success or failed and can reply > what's needed for a one-click installation. So IMO we should wait to make sure the survey is clarified, improved, extended with the outcome of the discussion. (I know running surveys is fun and hip, but starting a second one later is dump and confusing, So let's not do that. Greetings, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Thanks for the input. The draft for a survey is on Nextcloud https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/ZCX4wrx3wipr5mQ Framing the questionnaire as input for future development we might get a feeling what percentage of users is interested in LOOL. And hopefully some have experienced success or failed and can reply what's needed for a one-click installation. Cheers, Heiko signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-23 16:32, Sam Tuke escribió: On 23/05/2020 19:04, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote: * Shall enterprises (and even individuals) can deploy their own LOOL to have a cloud based collaborative office suite? + Yes + No + Other (explain) Rather than asking what people think /should/ happen, it's better to ask them about their past behaviour, because that is a more reliable indicator of their needs. For example (based on questions proposed so far): - Have you edited documents in a web browser within the last month? - Which of the following software deployment systems have you used to succesfully install software? - When was the last time you hired professional help to setup self-hosted software? This approach is common in US product development research. Sam. Thanks for the hints Sam, very good point. Any other ideas? -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 23/05/2020 19:04, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote: > * Shall enterprises (and even individuals) can deploy their own LOOL to have > a cloud based collaborative office suite? > + Yes > + No > + Other (explain) Rather than asking what people think /should/ happen, it's better to ask them about their past behaviour, because that is a more reliable indicator of their needs. For example (based on questions proposed so far): - Have you edited documents in a web browser within the last month? - Which of the following software deployment systems have you used to succesfully install software? - When was the last time you hired professional help to setup self-hosted software? This approach is common in US product development research. Sam. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 10:33, Heiko Tietze escribió: On 22.05.20 16:09, Simon Phipps wrote: A survey form would be the best way to go a about it Happy to support this but no idea how to start. Ordinary users cannot answer "What's the best solution for you to get LOOL?" neither "Which kind of authentication do you prefer? [OpenFoo, LibreBar, PublicQux]". And isn't the setup kind of a stack that needs to be installed with (Next)Cloud, LOOL backend, and (COOL)-UI? So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is multiple-choice with additional "Other" option. My initial take, * Shall enterprises (and even individuals) can deploy their own LOOL to have a cloud based collaborative office suite? + Yes + No + Other (explain) * Deployment on cloud servers under your control or on-prem should require high-level technical expertise? + Yes + No + Other (explain) The platform should allow the possibility of adding integrations with other software platform? + Yes + No + Other (explain) -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Thanks for your feedback and your support Marco. Thanks also for your support and the edits on the wiki page which is making it a lot easier for other people to start working on their own builds: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnline I see that it is getting constantly improved and if it can be automated with Ansible then anyone with basic skills can build his/her own LOOL. I read that unfortunately you received an answer that is surely unacceptable. Collabora has been one of the major contributors to the project and they employ quite a few of the developers, it seems like one of them forgot that he is contributing to an Open Source project on which the company has/is investing but from which is also benefiting to pay his wage. I'm sure the answer has been due to a moment of distraction and that the person in question realised his mistake. I believe Friday's discussion has been a very important milestone for LOOL. It has brought together several contributors which are working hard to complete the documentation needed to make LOOL available also to the less experienced part of the community and I'm sure that many other will join in now that several complex items have been clarified and simplified. As from my summarised proposal lots more needs to be done and thanks to the feedback coming from you and the rest of the community we are working now to refine the details of the project. Let's keep the conversation going as I'd like to see LibreOffice On-Line becoming the obvious choice for on-line collaboration for both the community and the enterprise market. Ciao Paolo On 22/05/2020 20:39, Marco Marinello - Mailing lists wrote: > Hi all, > > > in September 2019, to get another project up and running (in which the > main component is NextCloud), I found myself working on LibreOffice Online. > > This was totally a pain. The lack of any consistent documentation (until > May 5 in the INSTALL file there was just written "Left as an exercise to > the reader") was one of the biggest problems. The only way was to rely > on old blog posts found on the internet. > > Another totally undocumented topic (obviously I refer to the official > documentation on wiki.documentfoundation.org) was the configuration of a > reverse proxy to work with LOOL, essential since configuring LOOL to use > a non-self signed certificate is even harder. > > I experienced how the community was once helpful (e.g. addressing me to > the l10n-docker-nightly and explaining the branches) and once, let's > say, less helpful (quote from the IRC "and why do you think we > (Collabora) would want to help you in creating a competing product?"). > Needless to say, this has left me stunned: certainly if I write to the > community I don't expect someone to judge if I'm able to declare a > variable in Javascript or not. > > Since then, however, much has been done: Online now has at least a > decent documentation which covers the build of a stable version of the > docker container. Many information are though still missing, a reliable > evaluation of the resources needed to have a stable instance and how > many users it could serve, for example. Clustering LOOL even seems to be > an untouched topic for now (to the public, at least). > > Therefore, I totally endorse Paolo's proposal. TDF should, in my > opinion, definitely release working stable binaries of online. Many many > associations out there don't have the money or simply don't need a > professional support just the same way it happens for the client version. > > I even agree with Simon: deploying online is horribly hard. I've been > working on some Ansible playbook since a while and I think they could be > soon released. The aim is to provide sysadmins (even myself) an easy way > to deploy LOOL. If we have on the Docker HUB an arm64/amrhf image, > having it working on a RaspberryPi would be just a side effect. > > > All the best, > > Marco > > -- Paolo Vecchi - Deputy Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Cor Nouws wrote on 22/05/2020 23:57: > So please let's investigate how it works out in practice ;) Ah well, sure, but maybe it's better to wait for the information, write up, that has been promised by Paolo, Michael, Franklin and Thorsten in today's meeting. So let me shut up for now :) Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi Daniel, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote on 22/05/2020 23:33: > El 2020-05-22 17:26, Cor Nouws escribió: >> It would be good to hear what you think of today's board meeting, and >> what has been presented there about community health and ecosystem. >> (Well, we tried to chat later, but kitchen duties were calling me ;) ) > > What I think is no one can get such answer from TDF channel, period. I understand what you mean, sure. I have no idea about that conversation in a whole, so can't judge. But at least it's a fair representation of the status quo at that moment, from that point of view. >> That is a reasonable possible way of looking at it, for sure. >> TDF's mission speaks about "software made available for everyone .. >> freely and without restrictions". So indeed you can read that as >> 'binaries for business use without payment', but just as reasonable as >> 'code for all individuals without restrictions'. Or maybe even >> interpretations in between :) > > No one is talking of the first, and I'm reading it over and over again > with different wording. That is what happens: depending on ... whatever, you get a different reading. Maybe I got your words wrong. Then sorry for that. But the ideas about free binaries for all use are there. So it's something we cannot ignore. >> So that's the good thing for primary the board, but if needed the whole >> community: our freedom to look at what is really wise to do for TDF's >> mission. >> Maybe the Ecosystem & Sustainability presentation gives some good input >> to further talk about that aspect of how our world looks. So lets do >> that :) > > If TDF offer a product for free, and states the commercial suport is up > the ecosystem companies what's the problem? > Whoever is looking for such support will knock their doors. No one else then we bear responsibility to respect the statues. "... The foundation furthers a sustainable, independent and meritocratic community which develops Free / Libre and Open Source Software based on open standards through international collaboration." So please let's investigate how it works out in practice ;) Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 17:26, Cor Nouws escribió: Hi Daniel, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote on 22/05/2020 22:49: What makes my worry is the response you got about C'bora under TDF's IRC It would be good to hear what you think of today's board meeting, and what has been presented there about community health and ecosystem. (Well, we tried to chat later, but kitchen duties were calling me ;) ) What I think is no one can get such answer from TDF channel, period. And I take you words "an easy way to deploy LOOL" should be provided by TDF, as TDF's mission is to offer a free product to the end user. And that offer should allow a painless implementation. That is a reasonable possible way of looking at it, for sure. TDF's mission speaks about "software made available for everyone .. freely and without restrictions". So indeed you can read that as 'binaries for business use without payment', but just as reasonable as 'code for all individuals without restrictions'. Or maybe even interpretations in between :) No one is talking of the first, and I'm reading it over and over again with different wording. So that's the good thing for primary the board, but if needed the whole community: our freedom to look at what is really wise to do for TDF's mission. Maybe the Ecosystem & Sustainability presentation gives some good input to further talk about that aspect of how our world looks. So lets do that :) If TDF offer a product for free, and states the commercial suport is up the ecosystem companies what's the problem? Whoever is looking for such support will knock their doors. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi Daniel, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote on 22/05/2020 22:49: > What makes my worry is the response you got about C'bora under TDF's IRC It would be good to hear what you think of today's board meeting, and what has been presented there about community health and ecosystem. (Well, we tried to chat later, but kitchen duties were calling me ;) ) > And I take you words "an easy way to deploy LOOL" should be provided by > TDF, as TDF's mission is to offer a free product to the end user. And > that offer should allow a painless implementation. That is a reasonable possible way of looking at it, for sure. TDF's mission speaks about "software made available for everyone .. freely and without restrictions". So indeed you can read that as 'binaries for business use without payment', but just as reasonable as 'code for all individuals without restrictions'. Or maybe even interpretations in between :) So that's the good thing for primary the board, but if needed the whole community: our freedom to look at what is really wise to do for TDF's mission. Maybe the Ecosystem & Sustainability presentation gives some good input to further talk about that aspect of how our world looks. So lets do that :) greetings, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 16:05, Andras Timar escribió: Hi, On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:40 PM Marco Marinello - Mailing lists wrote: This was totally a pain. The lack of any consistent documentation (until May 5 in the INSTALL file there was just written "Left as an exercise to the reader") was one of the biggest problems. The only way was to rely on old blog posts found on the internet. Until recently the consensus was that TDF releases source tarballs for LOOL. So there was no demand to write documentation how to create packages, how to build a "product". It's not about creating a product but implementing a solution, that's the key. On the other hand it is fully documented in the source code in README files how to build as a developer, if someone wanted to hack on the code. The docker/l10n-docker-nightly.sh is also quite self-explanatory. (For those, who don't know what it is: it builds a docker image from source.) Another totally undocumented topic (obviously I refer to the official documentation on wiki.documentfoundation.org) was the configuration of a reverse proxy to work with LOOL, essential since configuring LOOL to use a non-self signed certificate is even harder. As TDF did not release binaries, I don't know who would look for such documentation in TDF wiki. Collabora published documentation for CODE, e.g.: https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/apache-reverse-proxy/ https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/nginx-reverse-proxy/ But there are other good sources of information, too, from integrators. From the community you may want to make implementations that, for example, do not show warnings. If the implementer is willing to deal with that, why not let them? Another hot topic, for me at least is to provide vendor neutral information. I even agree with Simon: deploying online is horribly hard. I've been I disagree. It's a myth. Yes, it can be hard, when firewalls, load balancers, 5 users etc. are involved. It's the case when one needs professional support. But for the hobbyist, how hard is it to install CODE with a few clicks in Univention, or to follow my "5 minute" guides? https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/quick-tryout-owncloud-docker/ https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/quick-tryout-nextcloud-docker/ Vendor neutral point applies here too. And I am aware that without C'bora/CIB there would probably be no LOOL, but we are TDF. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:56 PM Andras Timar wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:29 PM Simon Phipps wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:06 PM Andras Timar wrote: >> >>> I disagree. It's a myth. Yes, it can be hard, when firewalls, load >>> balancers, 5 users etc. are involved. It's the case when one needs >>> professional support. But for the hobbyist, how hard is it to install CODE >>> with a few clicks in Univention, or to follow my "5 minute" guides? >>> >> >> I'm sure you have done a great job for suitably-skilled people wanting a >> quick evaluation, but the truth is that approach only takes you to the >> point where the questions start. I have tried to get a LiOn system running >> at home and have not succeeded in getting anything I can leave running for >> my family, unlike the Asterisk-based phone system we are using (on a Pi) or >> the NextCloud appliance we have installed (Pi-based). >> >> > If there were binaries for Pi, probably installation would be easy. In > fact, I think that Pi support would be a nice community project and would > not hurt any commercial interest. > There is already an armht/arm64 LibreOffice, both the one the Raspbian folks distribute and a more up-to-date version in Debian (thanks Rene!). There is also a work-in-progress Debian package, https://salsa.debian.org/libreoffice-team/libreoffice/libreoffice-online (again thanks to Rene). But I'm told it's just too hard to unpick all the Javascript packages to make it Debian-installable. So, if you can help get that sorted maybe we can have some easy LiOn Pi after all! The ideal would be something that runs from the GUI as a NextCloud plug-in that, given the location and credentials of a freshly installed Pi, would squirt LiOn into it and configure both ends to use it. Cheers! Simon -- *Simon Phipps* *Office:* +1 (415) 683-7660 *or* +44 (238) 098 7027 *Signal/Mobile*: +44 774 776 2816
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi, On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:29 PM Simon Phipps wrote: > Hi! > > On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:06 PM Andras Timar wrote: > >> I disagree. It's a myth. Yes, it can be hard, when firewalls, load >> balancers, 5 users etc. are involved. It's the case when one needs >> professional support. But for the hobbyist, how hard is it to install CODE >> with a few clicks in Univention, or to follow my "5 minute" guides? >> > > I'm sure you have done a great job for suitably-skilled people wanting a > quick evaluation, but the truth is that approach only takes you to the > point where the questions start. I have tried to get a LiOn system running > at home and have not succeeded in getting anything I can leave running for > my family, unlike the Asterisk-based phone system we are using (on a Pi) or > the NextCloud appliance we have installed (Pi-based). > > If there were binaries for Pi, probably installation would be easy. In fact, I think that Pi support would be a nice community project and would not hurt any commercial interest. Regards, Andras
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 15:22, Ilmari Lauhakangas escribió: Cor Nouws kirjoitti 22.5.2020 klo 22.15: Hi Marco, Marco Marinello - Mailing lists wrote on 22/05/2020 20:39: Therefore, I totally endorse Paolo's proposal. TDF should, in my opinion, definitely release working stable binaries of online. Many many associations out there don't have the money or simply don't need a professional support just the same way it happens for the client version. Thanks for bringing this forward and good to see a future contributor possibly ;) Marco has already written docs in the wiki for some months: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnline https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Configuring_a_reverse_proxy_for_LOOL Ilmari He has really done a great job, but TDF cannot depend on the goodwill of the members for a product to be implemented. All documentation should be provided to make life a lot easier for everyone. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 14:39, Marco Marinello - Mailing lists escribió: Hi all, in September 2019, to get another project up and running (in which the main component is NextCloud), I found myself working on LibreOffice Online. This was totally a pain. The lack of any consistent documentation (until May 5 in the INSTALL file there was just written "Left as an exercise to the reader") was one of the biggest problems. The only way was to rely on old blog posts found on the internet. Another totally undocumented topic (obviously I refer to the official documentation on wiki.documentfoundation.org) was the configuration of a reverse proxy to work with LOOL, essential since configuring LOOL to use a non-self signed certificate is even harder. I experienced how the community was once helpful (e.g. addressing me to the l10n-docker-nightly and explaining the branches) and once, let's say, less helpful (quote from the IRC "and why do you think we (Collabora) would want to help you in creating a competing product?"). Needless to say, this has left me stunned: certainly if I write to the community I don't expect someone to judge if I'm able to declare a variable in Javascript or not. Since then, however, much has been done: Online now has at least a decent documentation which covers the build of a stable version of the docker container. Many information are though still missing, a reliable evaluation of the resources needed to have a stable instance and how many users it could serve, for example. Clustering LOOL even seems to be an untouched topic for now (to the public, at least). Therefore, I totally endorse Paolo's proposal. TDF should, in my opinion, definitely release working stable binaries of online. Many many associations out there don't have the money or simply don't need a professional support just the same way it happens for the client version. I even agree with Simon: deploying online is horribly hard. I've been working on some Ansible playbook since a while and I think they could be soon released. The aim is to provide sysadmins (even myself) an easy way to deploy LOOL. If we have on the Docker HUB an arm64/amrhf image, having it working on a RaspberryPi would be just a side effect. All the best, Marco Thank you for valuable input Marco What makes my worry is the response you got about C'bora under TDF's IRC And I take you words "an easy way to deploy LOOL" should be provided by TDF, as TDF's mission is to offer a free product to the end user. And that offer should allow a painless implementation. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 12:30, Simon Phipps escribió: On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 4:37 PM Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote: El 2020-05-22 10:33, Heiko Tietze escribió: On 22.05.20 16:09, Simon Phipps wrote: A survey form would be the best way to go a about it Happy to support this but no idea how to start. Ordinary users cannot answer "What's the best solution for you to get LOOL?" neither "Which kind of authentication do you prefer? [OpenFoo, LibreBar, PublicQux]". And isn't the setup kind of a stack that needs to be installed with (Next)Cloud, LOOL backend, and (COOL)-UI? So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is multiple-choice with additional "Other" option. In this case our end user should understood, IMO, be Certified professionals, members or IT responsible people. So, maybe this thread can drop such questions as a result. That is not acceptable. We should be serving the public, not a technical elitre. That's a missleading, those profiles can help us to reach the endusers. My personal take is we should get a product as easy to deploy as WordPress, for instance, to let the end user take the control of their own cloud. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi! On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 9:06 PM Andras Timar wrote: > I disagree. It's a myth. Yes, it can be hard, when firewalls, load > balancers, 5 users etc. are involved. It's the case when one needs > professional support. But for the hobbyist, how hard is it to install CODE > with a few clicks in Univention, or to follow my "5 minute" guides? > I'm sure you have done a great job for suitably-skilled people wanting a quick evaluation, but the truth is that approach only takes you to the point where the questions start. I have tried to get a LiOn system running at home and have not succeeded in getting anything I can leave running for my family, unlike the Asterisk-based phone system we are using (on a Pi) or the NextCloud appliance we have installed (Pi-based). This is the LiOn problem TDF needs to fix first to get a TDF-centric user- and skill-base established. S.
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi, On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 8:40 PM Marco Marinello - Mailing lists < li...@marcomarinello.it> wrote: > This was totally a pain. The lack of any consistent documentation (until > May 5 in the INSTALL file there was just written "Left as an exercise to > the reader") was one of the biggest problems. The only way was to rely > on old blog posts found on the internet. > Until recently the consensus was that TDF releases source tarballs for LOOL. So there was no demand to write documentation how to create packages, how to build a "product". On the other hand it is fully documented in the source code in README files how to build as a developer, if someone wanted to hack on the code. The docker/l10n-docker-nightly.sh is also quite self-explanatory. (For those, who don't know what it is: it builds a docker image from source.) > > Another totally undocumented topic (obviously I refer to the official > documentation on wiki.documentfoundation.org) was the configuration of a > reverse proxy to work with LOOL, essential since configuring LOOL to use > a non-self signed certificate is even harder. > As TDF did not release binaries, I don't know who would look for such documentation in TDF wiki. Collabora published documentation for CODE, e.g.: https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/apache-reverse-proxy/ https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/nginx-reverse-proxy/ But there are other good sources of information, too, from integrators. I even agree with Simon: deploying online is horribly hard. I've been > > I disagree. It's a myth. Yes, it can be hard, when firewalls, load balancers, 5 users etc. are involved. It's the case when one needs professional support. But for the hobbyist, how hard is it to install CODE with a few clicks in Univention, or to follow my "5 minute" guides? https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/quick-tryout-owncloud-docker/ https://www.collaboraoffice.com/code/quick-tryout-nextcloud-docker/ Regards, Andras
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Cor Nouws kirjoitti 22.5.2020 klo 22.15: Hi Marco, Marco Marinello - Mailing lists wrote on 22/05/2020 20:39: Therefore, I totally endorse Paolo's proposal. TDF should, in my opinion, definitely release working stable binaries of online. Many many associations out there don't have the money or simply don't need a professional support just the same way it happens for the client version. Thanks for bringing this forward and good to see a future contributor possibly ;) Marco has already written docs in the wiki for some months: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnline https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Configuring_a_reverse_proxy_for_LOOL Ilmari -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi Marco, Marco Marinello - Mailing lists wrote on 22/05/2020 20:39: > Therefore, I totally endorse Paolo's proposal. TDF should, in my > opinion, definitely release working stable binaries of online. Many many > associations out there don't have the money or simply don't need a > professional support just the same way it happens for the client version. Thanks for bringing this forward and good to see a future contributor possibly ;) What you say, is a clear statement, that we all - the full community - will think and discuss about when the 'start document', that has been decided in today's board meeting. I hope that can be ready soon, since it's a very important and hot topic. I hope you also appreciated the other parts of the meeting of course. Greetings, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi all, in September 2019, to get another project up and running (in which the main component is NextCloud), I found myself working on LibreOffice Online. This was totally a pain. The lack of any consistent documentation (until May 5 in the INSTALL file there was just written "Left as an exercise to the reader") was one of the biggest problems. The only way was to rely on old blog posts found on the internet. Another totally undocumented topic (obviously I refer to the official documentation on wiki.documentfoundation.org) was the configuration of a reverse proxy to work with LOOL, essential since configuring LOOL to use a non-self signed certificate is even harder. I experienced how the community was once helpful (e.g. addressing me to the l10n-docker-nightly and explaining the branches) and once, let's say, less helpful (quote from the IRC "and why do you think we (Collabora) would want to help you in creating a competing product?"). Needless to say, this has left me stunned: certainly if I write to the community I don't expect someone to judge if I'm able to declare a variable in Javascript or not. Since then, however, much has been done: Online now has at least a decent documentation which covers the build of a stable version of the docker container. Many information are though still missing, a reliable evaluation of the resources needed to have a stable instance and how many users it could serve, for example. Clustering LOOL even seems to be an untouched topic for now (to the public, at least). Therefore, I totally endorse Paolo's proposal. TDF should, in my opinion, definitely release working stable binaries of online. Many many associations out there don't have the money or simply don't need a professional support just the same way it happens for the client version. I even agree with Simon: deploying online is horribly hard. I've been working on some Ansible playbook since a while and I think they could be soon released. The aim is to provide sysadmins (even myself) an easy way to deploy LOOL. If we have on the Docker HUB an arm64/amrhf image, having it working on a RaspberryPi would be just a side effect. All the best, Marco -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 4:37 PM Daniel Armando Rodriguez < drodrig...@documentfoundation.org> wrote: > El 2020-05-22 10:33, Heiko Tietze escribió: > > On 22.05.20 16:09, Simon Phipps wrote: > >> A survey form would be the best way to go a about it > > > > Happy to support this but no idea how to start. Ordinary users cannot > > answer "What's the best solution for you to get LOOL?" neither "Which > > kind of authentication do you prefer? [OpenFoo, LibreBar, PublicQux]". > > And isn't the setup kind of a stack that needs to be installed with > > (Next)Cloud, LOOL backend, and (COOL)-UI? > > > > So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that > > everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is multiple-choice > > with additional "Other" option. > > > In this case our end user should understood, IMO, be Certified > professionals, members or IT responsible people. > > So, maybe this thread can drop such questions as a result. > That is not acceptable. We should be serving the public, not a technical elitre. S.
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 11:52, Thorsten Behrens escribió: Hi Heiko, all, Heiko Tietze wrote: So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is multiple-choice with additional "Other" option. Thus my (perhaps unintuitive) suggestion to start discussing the details on the design list - Daniel already listed a number of different personas (members, certified professionals, and sysadmins), and it is not unreasonable to assume they might have different needs. The point has to do with the smooth process they/any must find when deploying such a solution. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi Heiko, all, Heiko Tietze wrote: > So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that > everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is > multiple-choice with additional "Other" option. > Thus my (perhaps unintuitive) suggestion to start discussing the details on the design list - Daniel already listed a number of different personas (members, certified professionals, and sysadmins), and it is not unreasonable to assume they might have different needs. Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 10:09, Simon Phipps escribió:
A survey form would be the best way to go about it.
Also note that - regardless of package availability - as conceived
Libreoffice Online is beyond the scope of most individuals as it
requires access to cloud infrastructure, familiarity with certificates
and a willingness to manage web security. That's why I have proposed
LiOn Pi, which is targeted at individuals.
At least a sysadmin would be willing to deal with, but as far as I know
currently is hard enough even for such profiles.
{Terse? Mobile!}
On Fri, 22 May 2020, 14:36 Thorsten Behrens,
wrote:
Hi Daniel, all,
Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote:
I believe we should know what people expects when downloading a
docker img, if it fits the needing or what do they have to deal
with.
Depends on who's the target audience of that question, I guess.
Possibly the design, or the website list are better places to discuss
this?
Cheers,
-- Thorsten
--
Daniel Armando Rodriguez
--
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Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 10:33, Heiko Tietze escribió: On 22.05.20 16:09, Simon Phipps wrote: A survey form would be the best way to go a about it Happy to support this but no idea how to start. Ordinary users cannot answer "What's the best solution for you to get LOOL?" neither "Which kind of authentication do you prefer? [OpenFoo, LibreBar, PublicQux]". And isn't the setup kind of a stack that needs to be installed with (Next)Cloud, LOOL backend, and (COOL)-UI? So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is multiple-choice with additional "Other" option. In this case our end user should understood, IMO, be Certified professionals, members or IT responsible people. So, maybe this thread can drop such questions as a result. -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
El 2020-05-22 09:34, Thorsten Behrens escribió: Hi Daniel, all, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote: I believe we should know what people expects when downloading a docker img, if it fits the needing or what do they have to deal with. Depends on who's the target audience of that question, I guess. Members, Certified Professionals, sysadmins Possibly the design, or the website list are better places to discuss this? Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Daniel Armando Rodriguez -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
On 22.05.20 16:09, Simon Phipps wrote: > A survey form would be the best way to go a about it Happy to support this but no idea how to start. Ordinary users cannot answer "What's the best solution for you to get LOOL?" neither "Which kind of authentication do you prefer? [OpenFoo, LibreBar, PublicQux]". And isn't the setup kind of a stack that needs to be installed with (Next)Cloud, LOOL backend, and (COOL)-UI? So what I'd need for a survey is a couple of simple questions that everybody can answer. My preferred type of question is multiple-choice with additional "Other" option. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
A survey form would be the best way to go about it.
Also note that - regardless of package availability - as conceived
Libreoffice Online is beyond the scope of most individuals as it requires
access to cloud infrastructure, familiarity with certificates and a
willingness to manage web security. That's why I have proposed LiOn Pi,
which is targeted at individuals.
S.
{Terse? Mobile!}
On Fri, 22 May 2020, 14:36 Thorsten Behrens,
wrote:
> Hi Daniel, all,
>
> Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote:
> > I believe we should know what people expects when downloading a
> > docker img, if it fits the needing or what do they have to deal
> > with.
> >
> Depends on who's the target audience of that question, I guess.
>
> Possibly the design, or the website list are better places to discuss
> this?
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Thorsten
>
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi Daniel, all, Daniel Armando Rodriguez wrote: > I believe we should know what people expects when downloading a > docker img, if it fits the needing or what do they have to deal > with. > Depends on who's the target audience of that question, I guess. Possibly the design, or the website list are better places to discuss this? Cheers, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature
