Re: Inventor Says No More Tears with Baby-Cry Gadget

[Julia Thompson]

Kevin Tarr wrote:
> 
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=573&e=4&u=/nm/2002
> 1009/od_nm/invention_dc
> 
>  A Spanish inventor, intrigued by his son's incessant crying, has designed a
> detector that he says will tell harassed parents within 20 seconds if their
> baby is hungry, bored, tired, stressed or uncomfortable.
> 
> Electronic engineer Pedro Monagas said Tuesday the gadget called "Why Cry"
> would go on sale at pharmacies in Spain by the end of the month for 95 euros
> ($93).
>  
> Should Matt Goering (sp) sue?

I think it's "Groening".

Julia
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Re: brin: education

[d.brin]

>I'd be interested in what Dr. Brin has to say about the dumbing down of
>education in america, how we went from the top in math and science to
>dead last.


Aha.  Arguing to an assumption that I consider fallacious in the 
first place.  As a parent of elementary school kids, I can tell you 
that school hours are going up, standards too.  There's more homework 
by far than I ever had at that age and the levels of math and science 
etc being covered are several grades earlier.  For example, my 5th 
grader is doing pre-algebra.

There is a simpler rebuttal, though.  If our schools are so bad, how 
come 95 of the worlds best 100 universities are in North America?

There is another explanation for those poor test comparisons.  Many 
other countries encourage rote memorization of facts.  We consider 
that to be a gross and evil use of students' minds. In USschools, the 
emphasis is on process and on class discussions and on encouraging 
initiative.   Guess which approach prepares kids for tests better?

Guess which  better prepares agile minds?

Guess which approach creates citizens with a fierce independent 
streak and the resiliency to rebel, if they find themselves aboard a 
hijacked airliner?

Don't get the wrong idea!  There are many things we hate about the 
public schools.  Teachers are now "teaching to the test".  The 
steadily rising test scores reflect this more than actual 
improvements.  And so on.

But I do think this is another area in which a lot of people get off 
from contempt for the masses.  Public education lifted us to the 
level where we send half of all teens to some kind of college and 
graduate fully 1/4!  A military officer once needed a high school 
diploma.  Then a bachelor's degree.  Now you can't rise above Captain 
without a masters and it's hard to reach admiral without two.




On a separate matter, let me weigh in with an opinion that the 
present Iraq frenzy is the most blatant 'wag the dog' I have ever 
seen.

Dig this. I hate Saddam and I'm no peacenick.  I'd love to go in and 
correct the horrible blunder that Bush Sr left us saddled with a 
decade ago.  (Notice that no one in politics is even mentioning that 
root of today's problem?)   We should do it calmly and carefully and 
legally and ruthlessly, spending as little precious international 
political capital as possible.

The present "war" is exactly the opposite.  Powell is flying around 
promising the moon and billions$ while offending everybody with 
threats, just to bully reluctant allies into an effort that NONE of 
them see as urgent.  Turkey and Saudi hate this thing.  Even the 
Brits don't want to fight, and when have you ever seen THAT?

Chief effect, giving Al JAzeera an excuse to claim we're on an 
anti-Islamic 'crusade" - picking off islamic regimes one at a time. 
We need to do this right, in a way that gets us kissed.  (And I'll 
admit that happened in Afghanistan.)

Let's put this in perspective.  We lived for 40 years with 5,000 
Soviet weapons of mass destruction aimed at us, with far better 
delivery systems than Saddam could ever dream of.  Calm patience and 
determination served us well then.  Yes, he MIGHT someday get some 
dirty bomb and a way to deliver ONE.   Yes, that's bad.  But it ain't 
so urgent we gotta blatantly mess with our elections, making congress 
choose between two simplistic and obviously put-up positions under 
the glare of trumped up "appeasement" accusations.

A statesman would have deferred this decision till elections were 
over.  There is no other explanation for the frenzy, and if you think 
this is anything but an attempted Wag, I am amazed by the power of 
self-hypnosis.

And if the GOP gets away with it this time, can you imagine the war 
they'll spring on us in 2004?

No, folks,  punish this.  Punish it at the polls.  Vote the economy. 
Then let's turn our attention to solving the intricate problem of a 
complex middle east.

If Saddam is this bad, he'll be just as bad in late November, and a 
nation can deliberate calmly on what to do.


-

Please verify this got posted.

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Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraq of counterattack

[Steve Sloan II]

Ritu Ko wrote about Saddam's other career as a romance novelist:

> I have always thought it was near-unpardonably short
> sighted of Saddam not to explore this avenue of addressing
> his financial problems. :)

*He* doesn't have financial problems, nor do his cronies.
It's the people of Iraq that have financial problems, and
unfortunately, our embargo is only helping him make his
people poorer, and himself richer.
__
Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama => [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brin-L list pages ... http://www.sloan3d.com/brinl
Chmeee's 3D Objects  http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee
3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com
Software  Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links
Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com
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Re: 'Frying Squad' Swoops on Drivers in Fuel Scam

[Medievalbk]

In a message dated 10/9/2002 5:52:46 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< A Welsh police team dubbed "the Frying Squad" has been formed to sniff out
 motorists who fuel their cars with cooking oil from fish and chip shops in a
 bid to avoid paying high government fuel taxes. >>

It is a pity that there are no more Goons left alive. Spike could have 
written a marvelous script about this, Peter could have mouthed a motor car, 
and Harry, well Harry could have been the car park.

Vilyehm, "Gotta go Ow", Teighlore
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Social Security tricky for GOP

[Robert Seeberger]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/orl-asecsocial06100602oct06,
0,2869886.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

Lawmakers who once embraced the idea of investing Social Security taxes into
private accounts are now standing on the edge of a political trapdoor.

Whether they fall through depends largely on the success of the Democratic
Party to exploit the issue during the coming fall race for control of
Congress.

And Democrats are promising an all-out partisan fight over Social Security
between now and next month's congressional elections -- with Florida as a
major battleground.

The specter of war with Iraq will not decide November's elections, said Hans
Riemer, a policy analyst for the Campaign for America's Future, which
opposes private accounts. Social Security and other domestic issues will, he
said.

"This issue has really been increasing in its intensity, and more and more
people are starting to realize this election is going to be pivotal as far
as the future direction of Social Security," Riemer said. "Unquestionably, I
think the average voter is still focused on their day-to-day lives, and on
the economy."

President Bush proposed as a key part of his campaign platform a plan to let
Americans invest some of their Social-Security taxes in private accounts.
But it has gone nowhere in Congress, as voters have watched a record bear
market eat up their savings. Even some staunch supporters are backing off.

Democrats, aching to wrest control of the House from Republicans, are
pointing to the plunging stock market as proof that it's just too risky.

More On Site

xponent
Risk Maru
rob


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RE: Inventor Says No More Tears with Baby-Cry Gadget

[Kevin Tarr]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=573&e=4&u=/nm/2002
1009/od_nm/invention_dc

 A Spanish inventor, intrigued by his son's incessant crying, has designed a
detector that he says will tell harassed parents within 20 seconds if their
baby is hungry, bored, tired, stressed or uncomfortable.


Electronic engineer Pedro Monagas said Tuesday the gadget called "Why Cry"
would go on sale at pharmacies in Spain by the end of the month for 95 euros
($93).

"I started (studying) the different kinds of cries of my son. Then I
continued on 100 babies," Monagas told radio station Cadena Ser.

He said he identified five distinct crying types, which the noise-sensitive
gadget is able to recognize.

The device, the size of a calculator and powered by batteries, has five
faces on a screen on the back representing the possible reasons why a baby
is crying.

"When the baby cries, it sets off the Why Cry and in 20 seconds the little
faces light up," Monagas said.

The Catalan inventor, who plans to give a share of any profits to a baby
charity, is already working on a more advanced model to "make the family
environment a little easier."

rob


Should Matt Goering (sp) sue?

Kevin T.
The octopus
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Re: brin: education

[Medievalbk]

In a message dated 10/9/2002 3:31:41 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I'd be interested in what Dr. Brin has to say about the dumbing down of
 education in america, how we went from the top in math and science to
 dead last.
  >>

Giving $1000 a year to the best webpages that link science fiction to 
education seems to be answer enough to me. 

I'd like to get his opinion on the full page newspaper ads that Steve Allen 
used to run.

But in my best Cowardly Lion voice from the Wizard of Oz, "I'm not going to 
email him today. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not."

[I'm trying to cut down.]

William Taylor
--
Is it just me, or is it a scary thought that Amway will still be going 500 
years from now.
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Re: Immunizations (L3)

[Deborah Harrell]

Sorry it's taken so long to give a more researched
response to the vaccine issue, but here goes-

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Sonja wrote-
> >  Well that's just it. Some of the vaccinations can
> seriously debillitate a
> >  child or even kill it. I'd like to know about
> those risks, _all_ the risks.
> >  In the Netherlands the former minister of health
> Els Borst said that it
> >  wasn't necesary for parents to have the full
> information as to what side
> >  effects certain vaccines hold, because they only
> occur in few cases and too
> >  much information would only make parents worry
> too much. 

Ugh.  Well, it's generally true that known vaccine
side effects are few, but if it happens to _your_
child, that 'less than 0.1%' just became 100% for
him/her.  On the other hand, the truly debilitating
effects of the wild-type infection are much more,
percentage-wise, than the vaccine, in many cases.  One
example, measles:

"Measles-related mortality, most often due to
respiratory and neurological complications, occurs in
0.1-0.3% of reported US cases.
Worldwide, measles causes approximately 880,000 deaths
each year. An estimated 85% of these deaths occur in
Africa and Southeast Asia. Case fatality rates are
higher among children younger than 5 years. Highest
fatality rates are among infants aged 4-12 months and
in children who are immunocompromised due to HIV
infection or other causes." {from a 2001 article}

"Measles encephalomyelitis is a complication in
1/1000-2000 wild-type cases in the US; some of these
will have permanent brain damage such as deafness. 
Complications are more likely in unexposed adults or
debilitated (malnourished or immunocompromised)
children."  {from a 2002 article}

"Moderate-severity vaccine complications from the MMR
(measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine: febrile seizures
(high fever from _any_ source can cause a seizure) 1
in 3000 doses; temporary joint pain/stiffness (more
prevalent in teen & adult women) 1/4 doses; temporary
decrease in platelet count that can lead to bleeding
problems 1/30,000 doses.
Severe allergic reaction (potentially fatal) less than
1/million doses; 'possible-related' deafness or brain
damage also ~ 1/million."  {CDC data}

So, wild-type measles has a kill rate of
1-3/thousand(in the US); vaccine mortality is
1/million or less.  (And the vaccine is for 3 viruses,
not just measles.)

There was an article on a recent outbreak of measles
in an undervaccinated population in The Netherlands,
with ~ 25% complication rate, which is higher than
usual (of 162 cases, 1 delirium, 9 pnemonia, 9 middle
ear infection).
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no3_supp/vandenhof.htm#Figure%202

>[Sonja] I find that
> >  insulting to my intelligence. As I found out it
> is rather difficult to find
> >  any information as too side effects of vaccines.

I don't know what vaccines you're required to get in
The Netherlands, but a good site to start with in the
States is the CDC's immunization page; you can click
on the VIS (Vaccine Information Statement) to get
individual vaccine information. Many of the sites are
available in other languages.
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/

> At the moment I'm deciding
> >  on whether or not to vaccinate Tom with a new
> vaccine, it is against
> >  menigitis C. It hasn't been around for all that
> long (about  year) and in
> >  order to get all children vaccinated medics have
> been rather shady as to the
> >  sort of side effects it can cause, that is side
> effects in the short term,
> >  because they simply don't know about any long
> term effects. Also it is a
> >  vaccine that only vaccinates against the much
> less common (although there
> >  has been an increase in the number of cases over
> the past few years)
> >  meningitis C not the much more feared meningitis
> B.

I think the 'B' you're refering to is _Haemophilus
influenzae_ type B; there isn't a decent vaccine
against _Neisseria menigitidus_ type B, but there is
one against _Nm_ type C.

Meningococcus has several variant types, one of which
is type C.

>From the CDC:
"Four vaccines protect against some, but not all, of
the bacteria that cause meningitis. The vaccines are:

7-valent pneumococcal conjugate (Prevnar®) 
23-valent pneumococcal polysaccharide
(Pneumovax® 23 and Pnu-Imune® 23) 
Haemophilus influenzae type b conjugate (Hib) 
Quadrivalent A,C,Y,W-135 meningococcal polysaccharide
(Menomune®). 
Two of the vaccines, pneumococcal conjugate and Hib
conjugate, are usually given to all infants and young
children.

"The pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine does not work
well in children under 2 years old and is not
recommended for this age group. It is used in older
children and adults. Pneumococcal polysaccharide is
recommended for all adults 65 years of age and older
and for children and adults with certain medical
conditions.

"The meningococcal polysaccharide vaccine is
recommended only for persons with certain medical
conditions and for persons who may come into contact
with the 

Re: education

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message -
From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Brin-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: brin: education


> I'd be interested in what Dr. Brin has to say about the dumbing down of
> education in america, how we went from the top in math and science to
> dead last.

Sigh,

I know the real answer, but its boring.  Instead of giving tests only to an
elite few, as we did before, we give them to nearly everyone.

If American math and science were _really_ that bad for as long as they
have been saying, then there is no way that American engineering would be
where it is today.


Dan M.



Dan M.

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Re: brin: education

[Alberto Monteiro]

The Fool wrote:
>

>I'd be interested in what Dr. Brin has to say about the dumbing down of
>education in america, how we went from the top in math and science to
>dead last.
>
I had observed this in about 1992, when I noticed that _all_
technical jobs that required math were taken by immigrants.

This is what happens when you stick to feet and pounds
instead of using metric :-P

Alberto Monteiro


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Political Cartoon From Saudi

[Robert Seeberger]

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/brinsattic/vwp?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=10-0
9-02-pod.gif&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/brinsattic
/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t



xponent
Bugs Maru
rob


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Inventor Says No More Tears with Baby-Cry Gadget

[Robert Seeberger]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=573&e=4&u=/nm/2002
1009/od_nm/invention_dc

 A Spanish inventor, intrigued by his son's incessant crying, has designed a
detector that he says will tell harassed parents within 20 seconds if their
baby is hungry, bored, tired, stressed or uncomfortable.


Electronic engineer Pedro Monagas said Tuesday the gadget called "Why Cry"
would go on sale at pharmacies in Spain by the end of the month for 95 euros
($93).

"I started (studying) the different kinds of cries of my son. Then I
continued on 100 babies," Monagas told radio station Cadena Ser.

He said he identified five distinct crying types, which the noise-sensitive
gadget is able to recognize.

The device, the size of a calculator and powered by batteries, has five
faces on a screen on the back representing the possible reasons why a baby
is crying.

"When the baby cries, it sets off the Why Cry and in 20 seconds the little
faces light up," Monagas said.

The Catalan inventor, who plans to give a share of any profits to a baby
charity, is already working on a more advanced model to "make the family
environment a little easier."



xponent

Amazed Maru

rob


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'Frying Squad' Swoops on Drivers in Fuel Scam

[Robert Seeberger]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=573&e=2&u=/nm/2002
1009/od_nm/petrol_dc


A Welsh police team dubbed "the Frying Squad" has been formed to sniff out
motorists who fuel their cars with cooking oil from fish and chip shops in a
bid to avoid paying high government fuel taxes.


Three Welsh motorists have already been caught and fined for using waste oil
from restaurants selling Britain's favorite deep-fried dish, the Times
newspaper reported Wednesday.

"I have halved my motoring costs since I started running my Subaru on
cooking oil," the paper quoted one of those stopped as saying.

"The car runs just as well and even smells a lot better than diesel."

The drivers were fined 500 pounds ($780) and warned that persistent
offenders may face up to seven years in jail.

xponent

F*** The Law Maru

rob




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U.S. troops fire at Kuwaiti civilian vehicle

[Robert Seeberger]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1034177474113_93/?hub=Wo
rld


American military personnel fired at armed civilians in Kuwait on Wednesday,
the second such incident in as many days.

On Tuesday, one U.S. soldier was killed and another injured when a pair of
suspected terrorists gained access to an American raining area and opened
fire. The assailants were later killed by U.S. Marines.

On Wednesday, a civilian vehicle passed an American military vehicle on the
road outside Kuwait City and pointed a weapon at the Americans.

The soldiers fired at the civilian vehicle and returned to their base
uninjured, where they reported seeing the civilian vehicle careening off the
road, according to CNN.

Citing Pentagon sources, CNN reported that Tuesday's attackers were part of
al Qaeda terrorist network.

Sources reportedly told CNN the Kuwaitis were trained in Afghanistan terror
training camps run by Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda terrorist network. However,
it is unclear whether al Qaeda ordered the attack or the gunmen were part of
an independent cell.

As well, CNN reported the gunmen, identified as Anas Ahmad Ibrahim
al-Kandari, 21, and Jassem Mubarak al-Hajri, 26, were believed to have
relatives held in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The Kuwaiti Interior Ministry described Tuesday's incident as a "terrorist"
attack.

The Kuwaiti gunmen approached the Marines Tuesday in a pick-up truck and
opened fire on troops during a joint Kuwaiti-U.S. military exercise in the
country's Failaka island.

Marines killed the two assailants after they fled in their truck. Three
AK-47s and ammunition was later found inside the truck.

The U.S. Marine killed in the attack was identified Wednesday as Lance Cpl.
Antonio Sledd, 20, of Hillsborough, Florida. Sledd died during surgery
following the attack. The other Marine, who has not been named, is expected
to recover.

Kuwait has arrested a number of people suspected of aiding the two gunmen,
but the motive for the shooting is still unclear.

Kuwaiti writer Mohammad al-Mulafi, who knew the gunmen, told Reuters the men
who attacked the Marines were upset about a new U.S. law that establishes
Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Palestinians see Jerusalem as the future
capital of their independent state.

Despite the attack, a U.S. embassy official told Reuters the Marines' annual
Eager Mace exercise will continue. The war games began Oct. 1 and are
scheduled to last two weeks. About 1,000 Marines were involved in the
exercise.
Washington has said the games are routine and not related to a possible war
with Iraq.

Kuwait and the U.S. signed a defence pact at the end of the 1991 Gulf War
that liberated the country after it was occupied by Iraq.

Kuwait has said it will allow U.S. forces to use its land for a military
strike against Iraq -- but only if such action is sanctioned by the United
Nations.

The U.S. Air Force uses two Kuwaiti bases located near Kuwait City. The
Marines are currently located at an isolated U.S. Army base located along
the Gulf coast about 20 kilometres west of the capital.



xponent

Delenda Est Delenda Est Maru

rob


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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message -
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets
warningIraqofcounterattack


>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets
> warningIraqofcounterattack
>
>
> > Dan Minette wrote:
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 12:55 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets
> > > warningIraqofcounterattack
> > >
> > > > I agree with Erik on this.
> > > >
> > > > I knew someone whose child had a hyphenated last name,
> > >
> > > Yea, and he's planning on having dinner with you tonight :-)  He has a
> > > hypenated last name too.
> >
> > Actually, I was thinking of a child that had one from birth.  (I should
> > have been clearer on that, but I'm a little slow today.  My apologies
> > for the confusion.)  I knew his mother.
> >
> > Was your last name hyphenated from birth?
> >
> > Julia
> No.  I hyphenated my name when I married.  My children had theirs
> hyphenated from birth.  So, I'm "someone whose child had a hyphenated last
> name."
>

This thread reads like yall are talking about a defect or disease.

"My child was born with a hyphenated name, but next month he will have
surgery to have it removed"

xponent
Jerry Lewis Hyphenated Name Labor Day Telethon Maru
rob


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Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraq of counterattack

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message -
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraq of counterattack


> Deborah Harrell wrote:
>
> >  Probably not nearly as worried as you
> > must be, but - as has been noted on-list previously -
> > the scare tactics being employed by the current
> > administration to erode civil liberties (re: the
> > Patriot Act),
>
> On that note:
>
> http://www.summitfreepress.com/S27story.htm
>
> About the "pre-emptive" arrests of some folks who'd assembled to
> organize a protest; some media folks, not participating but covering the
> event, were arrested, as well.
>
> WARNING:  A few bad words, where people are quoted as having used them.
>
> What has me most concerned is the report of the law-enforcement person
> saying "f*** the law".
>
Its not like that comment was made in some serious context.
The cop was smoking in a no smoking zone, and popped off that little gem of
wit, when challenged over it by a detained person.

It really doesnt have anything to do with the overall event, and doesnt
illuminate the attitudes of law enforcement during the debacle.
Its the kind of thing that would happen even if the government weren't
trying to crush the populace under its hideously deformed thumb.



xponent
Righteous Indignation Maru
rob


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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message -
From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets
warningIraqofcounterattack


> Dan Minette wrote:
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 12:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets
> > warningIraqofcounterattack
> >
> > > I agree with Erik on this.
> > >
> > > I knew someone whose child had a hyphenated last name,
> >
> > Yea, and he's planning on having dinner with you tonight :-)  He has a
> > hypenated last name too.
>
> Actually, I was thinking of a child that had one from birth.  (I should
> have been clearer on that, but I'm a little slow today.  My apologies
> for the confusion.)  I knew his mother.
>
> Was your last name hyphenated from birth?
>
> Julia
No.  I hyphenated my name when I married.  My children had theirs
hyphenated from birth.  So, I'm "someone whose child had a hyphenated last
name."

Dan M.

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Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraq of counterattack

[Julia Thompson]

Deborah Harrell wrote:

>  Probably not nearly as worried as you
> must be, but - as has been noted on-list previously -
> the scare tactics being employed by the current
> administration to erode civil liberties (re: the
> Patriot Act), 

On that note:

http://www.summitfreepress.com/S27story.htm

About the "pre-emptive" arrests of some folks who'd assembled to
organize a protest; some media folks, not participating but covering the
event, were arrested, as well.

WARNING:  A few bad words, where people are quoted as having used them.

What has me most concerned is the report of the law-enforcement person
saying "f*** the law".

Julia
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brin: education

[The Fool]

I'd be interested in what Dr. Brin has to say about the dumbing down of
education in america, how we went from the top in math and science to
dead last.

Classic essay:
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html

Other interesting articles about the dumbing down of america:

http://4brevard.com/choice/Public_Education.htm

http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Gatto.html
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links

[Kevin Tarr]

Some fun links from somewhere else, the third link has bad words.

I present to you, one cool ass speech...
http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/10-03-02-Iraq-snakes-Floor-speech.html

This is kinda neat, family photos year by year since 1976
http://zonezero.com/magazine/essays/diegotime/time.html

I wonder if this works for you folks...
http://www.clint.ca/oops/index.htm

Lego links rock...
http://www.best-marketing-tools.com/lego/lego.html


Kevin T.
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RE: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraq of counterattack

[Kevin Tarr]

 Probably not nearly as worried as you
must be, but - as has been noted on-list previously -
the scare tactics being employed by the current
administration to erode civil liberties (re: the
Patriot Act), change health policy, and weaken
environmental protections concern me.  The
deliberately arrogant and aggressive stance toward
much of the world concerns me; the unsubtle
manipulation of public fears and facts angers me.

Debbi



Okay, we all know about the 'worries' over the Patriot act, but what are these scare 
tacticts to "change health policy, and weaken
environmental protections " ?

Kevin T.

Happiness = 9
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Scouted- More Than 11,000 Plants, Animals Face Extinction

[Deborah Harrell]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021008/sc_nm/environment_extinction_dc_1


News Story - More Than 11,000 Plants, Animals Face
Extinction
 GENEVA (Reuters) - 
'Some 11,170 plant and animal species face extinction,
including a European lynx that could become the first
wild cat species to have disappeared for thousands of
years, a major conservation group said Tuesday.  The
Swiss-based World Conservation Union (IUCN) also
sounded the alarm about the saiga, a nomadic antelope
of Central Asia whose population has dropped by more
than 90 percent in just 10 years due to poaching.

The IUCN's "Red List of Threatened Species" says
Indonesia, India, Brazil and China are home to the
most threatened mammals and birds, while plant species
are declining rapidly in South and Central America,
Central and West Africa, and Southeast Asia.  Some 124
species, mainly plants, have joined the threatened
list since it was last issued in September 2000.

At the same time, two species believed extinct have
been "rediscovered."  They are the Lord Howe Island
stick insect, which was previously thought to have
disappeared from the Australian island in 1920, and
the Bavarian pine vole, the IUCN said.

The population of Iberian lynx, which numbered 1,200
in the early 1990s, has dropped to less than half in
the wake of efforts to control rabbits, its main prey,
in Spain and Portugal.

"There are fewer than 20 Iberian lynx in Portugal, it
is really on its way out there and will be very soon
in Spain," Peter Jackson, of the IUCN's cat specialist
group, told Reuters.

The IUCN said that although several sub species of
wild
cat, including a number of tigers, have disappeared,
the Iberian lynx would be the first full species to
die out since humans began keeping any kind of record
more than 2,000 years ago.

Habitats with the highest number of threatened mammals
and birds are lowland and mountain tropical
rainforest. Freshwater habitats are also extremely
vulnerable with many threatened fish, reptile,
amphibian and invertebrate species.

The IUCN's information comes from a network of 7,000
experts and data from partner groups including
BirdLife
International.'


There are many links from this page re: species
survival (or lack thereof), but some may yet
resurface.
The 'Tasmanian tiger' is among the other animals
rumored to still exist (from the CSM article):
"Unconfirmed sightings of this 65-pound predatory
marsupial – shaped like a dog and striped on its
hindquarters like a zebra – have persisted. The most
credible was in 1982, when a forest ranger in
northwest Tasmania claims to have spotted a thylacine
in his truck's headlights."

Humanoid Impact Maru

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religion vs Free Speech

[The Fool]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021009-121437-7274r

Fallaci goes on trial for anti-Muslim book 
By Elizabeth Bryant
United Press International
>From the International Desk
Published 10/9/2002 2:15 PM
View printer-friendly version
PARIS, Oct. 9 (UPI) -- A second author Wednesday went to trial in Paris
in as many months on charges of inciting racial hatred for a book that
has denigrating passages on Islam. 
The latest case involves "Rage and Pride," a best-selling novel by
Italian writer Oriana Fallaci. 
One plaintiff, the anti-racist group MRAP, wants the book banned from
France altogether. Two others, including the Human Rights League, simply
want disclaimers that its disparaging passages on Islam don't accurately
reflect the Muslim religion.
Fallaci, 72, who has cancer, was not present during the opening hearing.
But her lawyer, Christophe Bigot, denounced the trial as a campaign for
political correctness, to the detriment of free expression. 
Fallaci "has been very shocked by recent events, notably Sept. 11," Bigot
told France-Info in an interview Wednesday. "She wanted to raise a cry of
alarm against fundamentalism." 
In her book -- a best-seller in Italy and Spain -- Fallaci characterized
Muslims as "vile creatures, who urinate in baptistries" and "multiply
like rats." 
But Bigot argues Fallaci was targeting extremism, rather than the Muslim
religion as a whole. 
"She's attacking a certain manner of expressing it," he said. 
The anti-racist associations argue otherwise. 
"When one finishes reading the book, one recognizes the right to kill any
Muslim on the street," argued Hacen Taleb, the lawyer representing MRAP,
in a statement to the court. 
In June, another French judge refused MRAP's request to ban the book in
France. 
The Fallaci trial echoes another opened last month against controversial
French novelist Michel Houellebecq. Like Fallaci, Houllebecq faces
charges of "provoking discrimination, hatred or violence" toward a group
because of their religion. 
But this time, the charges revolve around Houellebecq's anti-Muslim
statements during an interview, rather than the passages in his book. A
verdict is expected on Oct. 22. 
Copyright © 2002 United Press International

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RE: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraqofcountera ttack

[J. van Baardwijk]

At 08:11 09-10-2002 -0500, John Horn wrote:

>You would be amazed how many people can mishear a simple name like "Horn".
>I get "Horan", "Doran", "Warren", "Smith"...  (OK, maybe not that last
>one...)

Maybe it will help if you inform them that "Horn" is spelled the same way 
as "horny" but without the "y".   


Jeroen "Just a thought" van Baardwijk

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Re: Changes At The Top -- October 7, 2002

[J. van Baardwijk]

At 14:55 08-10-2002 -0700, Matt Grimaldi wrote:

>(snip top 10 list)
>
>Is there a way to get a listing of the "unknown" addresses?

Yes. It may be obtained through exercising patience.

As more and more of the contents of the Archive gets included in the List 
Statistics, the number of posts from the "unknown" addresses will go down, 
and more and more of those addresses will go from "unknown" status to 
"known" status.

That process, however, is a slow one.


Jeroen "Architectus Tabularium" van Baardwijk

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RE: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraq of counterattack

[Deborah Harrell]

--- Ritu Ko wrote:
> Deborah Harrell wrote:
> 
> > Nope, I have no idea how you feel about living
> under the BJP government.  

My initial response had the 'no' highlit, but I
decided that was a bit too much.  
 
> 
> Well, my emotions and reactions vary. The first
> reaction, of course, was
> disbelief that people were idiotic enough to vote
> them in. That lingered
> for quite a while, and cosily snuggled up to all the
> fears and
> apprehensions that the fact aroused. 
> Going by their past actions, the ideology and the
> propaganda of the
> party and its sister organisations and their policy
> pronouncements in
> different states, I feared that they would rip
> asunder the secular
> fabric of Indian society and polity. I was worried
> that they would
> slowly try to re-write history and attempt to give
> it a 'hindutva'
> slant; that they would slowly start a 'culture and
> morals' police and
> attempt to enforce some of the more draconian ideas
> under the guise of
> 'reinforcing Indian culture'...basically that their
> government's
> policies would reflect the typically north-Indian
> Brahmanical views on
> how India 'should' be. And I knew that they would be
> ridiculously
> hawkish where Pakistan is concerned.

> Hopefully, I'll not have to live under their
> government in future, but
> this term has been ...um, interesting, I'd say.
> In exactly the same way as the word is used in that
> old Chinese curse.  :)
> 
> > _I_ live under 'Bush, Cheney,
> > Rumsfeld and Ashcroft, LLP.'  :)
> 
> And how do you feel about that? :)


I'm not sure I should answer that!

 Probably not nearly as worried as you
must be, but - as has been noted on-list previously -
the scare tactics being employed by the current
administration to erode civil liberties (re: the
Patriot Act), change health policy, and weaken
environmental protections concern me.  The
deliberately arrogant and aggressive stance toward
much of the world concerns me; the unsubtle
manipulation of public fears and facts angers me.

There are those in the "LLP" who would probably
support a 'moral police,' if they could get away with
it. Not that I disagree with having good morals (or
even using fear and guilt to protect children from
stupid and dangerous acts!), but adults need to be
persuaded as to _why_ something is wrong; "because God
said so" is not a sufficient answer.

Debbi
“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety.”  - Ben Franklin


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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[Reggie Bautista]

John wrote:
> >
> > >I, on the other hand, have an extremely short name.  Only two
> > >syllables if you don't include my middle name.
[snip]
Lal replied:
> > The benefits of a short name should never be underestimated.
>
Julia responded:
>Refinement of that statement:  the benefits of an easily
>pronounced/easily spelled short name should never be underestimated.

My father's name is Ynacio Bautista.  He got mail and phone calls under all 
sorts of interesting names... :-)

Reggie Bautista
VFP Please Don't Call Me Regis


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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[Ticia]

Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote:
> Aha, the newlywed finally returns. I really have been missing you. We need
> more female voices before the testosterone takes over the list.

I've been lurking ever since this new list was created after we returned 
from our honeymoon in Spain. Don't have much time to get into discussions 
(or even read all messages) though, too much going on at work which leaves 
me too pooped to go sit behind my pc again at night.

On the bright side, we just got ADSL, so downloading is no longer a problem! :))

> I hope you are having a great time and aren't way too busy . but ... just
> out of some kind of personal curiosity  er  is there more then just
> the information to you posting on this subject?  ;o)

Nope, we're having too much fun just the two of us for now. ;)
Maybe in a year or so...
Or never. Just heard again from my Canadian friend with the adorable 14 
month old girl. She's barely getting sleep ever since she took Amy to get 
allergy tested which apparently freaked her out so much she's now screaming 
her head off day and night, afraid of (or set off by) anybody or anything 
new. Total personality change, from cheerful outgoing wandering-off on her 
own kind of toddler to neurotic screaming one who doesn't want to be left 
alone even for a second. Now my friend is trying to get her to take to a 
'security blanket' (a stuffed Elmo) so she can learn to sooth herself to 
sleep, but it seems to be a slow and arduous process. I'm so not up for all 
of that, my friend is a full time mom, how will I ever cope being a working 
one?

> Sonja
> GCU piqued curiosity... ;o)
> (And I haven't got a clue as to how you'd spell that correctly. :o))

I think that's correct.


Ticia ',:)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[Julia Thompson]

Lalith Vipulananthan wrote:
> 
> John wrote:
> 
> >I, on the other hand, have an extremely short name.  Only two
> >syllables if you don't include my middle name.  One of my brothers, who
> >also has a single syllable first and last name, used to jokingly say he was
> 
> >going to name is firstborn "Jebediah Zechariah Horn" just so he'd have a
> >multiple syllable name.  Fortunately, he only had girls.
> 
> The benefits of a short name should never be underestimated.

Refinement of that statement:  the benefits of an easily
pronounced/easily spelled short name should never be underestimated.

My married name has more letters and more syllables than my maiden
name.  "Thompson" is a lot easier to deal with than "Degges" (which is
only one syllable, rhymes with "eggs", and which almost nobody can both
spell and pronounce correctly).

Julia

whose aunt, upon being told of her engagement, just wanted to know the
guy's last name, and was overjoyed that it was something as easy as
"Thompson".
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Re: This Message Is For Male Brinellers Only

[Julia Thompson]

Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote:

> I really get upset when I've spent a lot of time on certain tasks and it is met with
> a shrug, trampled underfoot or worse even... simply being taken for granted. I mean
> ironing for one is such a depressing task. You iron it, it gets used and crumpled in
> a corner. Infuriating, dismissiv. I find housework so under appreciated. It can take
> me all day to get something in order. Doing task after task, chore after chore and at
> the end of the day I have nothing obvious to show for it, worse at the end of the
> second day you can't even find a clue as to whether something has been done or not.
> And at the end of the month you have nothing showing for all your hard labour in your
> bankaccount, except all those drafts for the shopping that has been done. Having a
> toddler around doesn't really help to improve that feeling. ;o)

I don't iron.  :)  Never really liked to, only did when it was
necessary, and when I met Dan, he didn't mind ironing his own shirts. 
Not much that we have to wear *needs* ironing (I'm careful about what I
buy!).  I can't think of the last time I ironed.  If Dan wants me to
wear something that needs ironing, chances are, I can get him to do it.

But the rest of it, yes.  You do a load of laundry and just have to wash
the same clothes a week later.  (I like doing laundry because at the end
of the day I can say, "I did X loads of laundry today.)

Some unpacking is still needing to be done; I haven't had the momentum
in that department for a couple of weeks now.  With that, when I've
emptied a box from the move, I can point to the empty box, at least. 
(But that hasn't been motivation enough, somehow.  Well, maybe today
I'll get to emptying that box that's been on my dresser for too
long)
 
> That is probably why I still like doing some DIY. That is if I can find the time and
> some Tom-free space. At least you can see that something's been done, without it
> being turned into dust and rubble within a few hours. (That is if you didn't botch
> the job ;o) )

There's a lot of "putting up" that still has to be done here, hanging
pictures and the like.  That's another thing that has a more permanent
"doneness".

> I guess it is just inherent to the job of housewife. On the bright side... I can go
> out, spent special time with Tom whenever I like. Or me and Tom can go and visit
> friends for a cup a coffee. We can go for a swim  in the middle of the day. I can sit
> behind the puter and  oops, look at the time! I really need to start doing
> something usefull, right away. :o)

I've started a load of laundry.  And folded the sheets that were sitting
in the dryer overnight.  :)

Julia

who will be going with Sammy to have lunch with someone later this
morning
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RE: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraqofcountera ttack

[Lalith Vipulananthan]

John wrote:

>I suppose that is true.  I remember taking those standardized 
>tests as a kid and always being amazed when the teacher would say, "if your

>name doesn't fit in the blanks".  Huh?  It always seemed like the number of

>spaces for the last name went half way across the page!  And I was always 
>done filling in those stupid little circles (with a number 2 pencil) way 
>before everyone else.

Hey, I loved those multiple choice exam answer sheets! The only thing that
would have enough space for my name!


>You would be amazed how many people can mishear a simple name 
>like "Horn". I get "Horan", "Doran", "Warren", "Smith"...  (OK, maybe 
>not that last one...)

I'm reminded of a evening out drinking with some friends. A group of us who
were there until last orders made our way drunkenly to the tube station, and
one friend kept trying to pronounce my surname. My attempts to correct him
went unheard as he was adamant that what he was saying sounded exactly the
same as what I had been saying. His girlfriend and a third guy friend spent
the entire time pissing themselves laughing, especially when I tried to get
someone to back me up when I wearily said for the umpteenth time that he was
murdering my surname and sounded *nothing* like me. Argh. :(

Lal
GSV He Of Course Remembered Nothing Of This A Week Later


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Re: This Message Is For Male Brinellers Only

[Julia Thompson]

Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote:

> My kitchen is a very static one. That means that every ittybitty little
> item has it's own spot. I get really very annoyed and grumpy when stuff is
> out of place. After a forced rearanging of the kitchen (in order to create
> more space or to fit in a new item) it takes me months to make the mental
> switch. After three years of a big reorganisation I managed to still open
> the wrong cupboard for plates or spices. Jeroen is sensible enough to not
> try and mess with the kitchen order too much when he cooks his Jeroen
> specials I like so much. :o).

Ours was pretty static in the old house, and then one day I realized
that one of the things we were doing was kind of stupid.  So I decided
we'd do it differently in the new house.

Isn't it great when the men cook?  :)  Dan does great spaghetti (the
sauce is *excellent*), grills fairly well, and has, in the past, fixed
batches of taco soup.  (Fixing a big batch of taco soup is something
that either of us can do, provided the soup-maker is given a break from
the toddler.  Fixing a batch of soup with the toddler underfoot would
be, well, interesting, possibly in the Chinese curse sense of the word.)

Oh, and Dan fixes Swedish pancakes sometimes.  He did it 3 or 4 weekends
in September.  He's been doing it a lot more since we moved -- I guess
the new kitchen agrees with him.  (He did a lot of the design of the
kitchen, so that's not surprising, I guess.)

Julia
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Re: Baby's surname

[Alberto Monteiro]

John Horn wrote: 
>  
> You would be amazed how many people can mishear a simple 
> name like "Horn". I get "Horan", "Doran", "Warren", 
> "Smith"...  (OK, maybe not that last one...) 
>  
I can understand why this happens with English, that is 
an ideographic language. But even with names in 
Portuguese people can get confused. My wife's mother's 
surname, _Malheiros_, is always misunderstood. 
 
Alberto Monteiro 
 
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RE: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraqofcountera ttack

[Horn, John]

> From: Lalith Vipulananthan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> The benefits of a short name should never be underestimated. 
> Then again,
> most people I meet can never claim to have forgotten my name 
> because it is so distinctive.

I suppose that is true.  I remember taking those standardized tests as a kid
and always being amazed when the teacher would say, "if your name doesn't
fit in the blanks".  Huh?  It always seemed like the number of spaces for
the last name went half way across the page!  And I was always done filling
in those stupid little circles (with a number 2 pencil) way before everyone
else.

You would be amazed how many people can mishear a simple name like "Horn".
I get "Horan", "Doran", "Warren", "Smith"...  (OK, maybe not that last
one...)

 - jmh

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RE: Baby's surname

[Lalith Vipulananthan]

Alberto wrote:

>Lalith Vipulananthan wrote: 
>>  
>> Anyway, regarding the name thing, I was given three 
>> Christian names in addition to my ridiculously long 
>> surname.  
>> 
>Lalith is Christian? And Vipulananthan [ah! the blessings 
>of cut-and-paste!] sounds like Thailandese :-) 

Ah, don't be a pedant. I was always taught at school that a person's first
name (or names) was his/her Christian name and then they had a surname. It's
stuck. Blame my teachers for that one.

Lal
GSV Christian name. First name. Whatever. :P


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RE: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraqofcountera ttack

[Lalith Vipulananthan]

John wrote:

>I, on the other hand, have an extremely short name.  Only two 
>syllables if you don't include my middle name.  One of my brothers, who 
>also has a single syllable first and last name, used to jokingly say he was

>going to name is firstborn "Jebediah Zechariah Horn" just so he'd have a 
>multiple syllable name.  Fortunately, he only had girls.

The benefits of a short name should never be underestimated. Then again,
most people I meet can never claim to have forgotten my name because it is
so distinctive. My sister cannot deny this positive aspect and in fact
enthuses about it regularly, especially when it comes to job applications
and interviews. You stand out from the crowd. Not that it helped me with
those seemingly endless investment bank interviews. :(


>If you don't mind my asking, Lalith, where does your name come 
>from?  It is quite a mouthful.

Not at all. By the way, call me Lal. Most people do. It's easier. :)

My parents are Tamils from Sri Lanka. As for myself, I was born here in the
UK. Tamils are legendary for polysyllabic names, and if I had been born in
Sri Lanka, the male naming convention would have led to my name becoming
Vipulananthan Lalith. That is something I consider from time to time and
shudder at the thought of such a horrific possibility.

If you find a surname with five or more syllables, and looks vaguely Asian,
it's probably a Tamil guy. 

Eg: the spin bowler supreme of the Sri Lankan cricket squad is the token
Tamil on the team, Muttiah Muralitharan.

Lal
GSV Stupidly Long Names R Us


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Re: Baby's surname

[Alberto Monteiro]

Lalith Vipulananthan wrote: 
>  
> Anyway, regarding the name thing, I was given three 
> Christian names in addition to my ridiculously long 
> surname.  
> 
Lalith is Christian? And Vipulananthan [ah! the blessings 
of cut-and-paste!] sounds like Thailandese :-) 
 
Alberto Monteiro 
 
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RE: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraqofcountera ttack

[Horn, John]

> From: Lalith Vipulananthan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> Anyway, regarding the name thing, I was given three Christian names in
> addition to my ridiculously long surname. Much as I'm into 
> the preservation
> of family name and all, I can see my sister's semi-joking 
> desire to marry
> someone Chinese. 

I, on the other hand, have an extremely short name.  Only two syllables if
you don't include my middle name.  One of my brothers, who also has a single
syllable first and last name, used to jokingly say he was going to name is
firstborn "Jebediah Zechariah Horn" just so he'd have a multiple syllable
name.  Fortunately, he only had girls.

We gave our kids hyphenated names.  My name is "Horn", my wife is "Cleaver",
the kids are "Cleaver-Horn".  It's worked fairly well, if confusing a lot of
my daughter's friends parents.  And my daughter was the only kid in her
preschool class who knew what a hyphen was!  Ah, the added benefits!  (BTW,
you can see some, not so up-to-date pics of them at our website of
http://www.cleaver-horn.com.)  We figure when they grow up and get married
they can decide what to do with their names at that point.

If you don't mind my asking, Lalith, where does your name come from?  It is
quite a mouthful.

 - jmh
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RE: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warning Iraqofcounterattack

[Lalith Vipulananthan]

Julia wrote:
>
> I agree with Erik on this.
>
> I knew someone whose child had a hyphenated last name, and 
>they didn't
> give him a middle name because that would have been too 
>much, in their
> opinion.

Erm, I may have misquoted this as I nicked this a mail I've only just
received after resubscribing.

Anyway, hi to anyone here who actually missed me (god knows why). I was in
India for three weeks, and the travelogue of justice may be read here (along
with a few photos, but more is on the way):

<>

And no, I didn't get to see those naked guys with feathers around the Taj
Mahal more's the pity. I would have taken a picture too!

Anyway, regarding the name thing, I was given three Christian names in
addition to my ridiculously long surname. Much as I'm into the preservation
of family name and all, I can see my sister's semi-joking desire to marry
someone Chinese. 

I don't anyone I'd marry would want the incredible annoyance of a
double-barrelled surname. They would have to be insane. Or someone who likes
spending hours filling out application forms and the like.

Lal
GSV Back From The Toilet


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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten]

Aha, the newlywed finally returns. I really have been missing you. We need
more female voices before the testosterone takes over the list.

I hope you are having a great time and aren't way too busy . but ... just
out of some kind of personal curiosity  er  is there more then just
the information to you posting on this subject?  ;o)

Sonja
GCU piqued curiosity... ;o)
(And I haven't got a clue as to how you'd spell that correctly. :o))

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> > Julia wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Erik on this.
> >
> > I knew someone whose child had a hyphenated last name, and they didn't
> > give him a middle name because that would have been too much, in their
> > opinion.
> >
> > What I'd like to see is if hyphenation or some variant of the Spanish
> > system let each person decide if they wanted to give their child their
> > mother's surname or father's surname, and just have a nice mix off of
> > that.  :)
>
> In Holland (The Netherlands) you can choose either or a combination of
> both: either partner can use surname1 or surname2 or surname2-surname1 or
> surname1-surname2, and they can name their children any of the four
> options. Only condition: all siblings must have the same surname. So the
> one you choose for the first is going to be your family name, as it were.
> :)
> Ticia ',:)
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ___
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Re: Baby's surname Re: U.S. drops leaflets warningIraqofcounterattack

[lelu]

> Julia wrote:
>
> I agree with Erik on this.
>
> I knew someone whose child had a hyphenated last name, and they didn't
> give him a middle name because that would have been too much, in their
> opinion.
>
> What I'd like to see is if hyphenation or some variant of the Spanish
> system let each person decide if they wanted to give their child their
> mother's surname or father's surname, and just have a nice mix off of
> that.  :)

In Holland (The Netherlands) you can choose either or a combination of
both: either partner can use surname1 or surname2 or surname2-surname1 or
surname1-surname2, and they can name their children any of the four
options. Only condition: all siblings must have the same surname. So the
one you choose for the first is going to be your family name, as it were.
:)
Ticia ',:)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Big Brother's national ID card

[The Fool]

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20021005-695758.htm

Big Brother's national ID card 
A national Identification card — complete with biometic identifiers, such
as fingerprints or retinal scans — is coming. Only it's not being called
that. House Resolution 4633 — the Driver's License Modernization Act of
2002 — would effectively create a national ID if it's passed. The bill
would require each state to adopt a uniform standard for driver's
licenses and link their motor vehicle databases to a central computer
registry. H.R. 4633 would "amend title 23, United States Code, to
establish standards for state programs for the issuance of drivers'
licenses and identification cards, and for other purposes." It would make
use of "encoded biometric data matching the holder of the license or
card." In other words, American citizens who have never committed any
crime would be subject to fingerprinting (or something similar, such as a
retinal scan) and compelled to carry a card with an embedded computer
chip containing reams of personal information.
What the legislation calls for is, in fact, a national ID card that every
adult American would effectively be forced to carry. The only way to opt
out would be to give up one's driver's license — something that is not
practical in an era when, outside of major cities, being able to drive is
a necessity without which one cannot secure or maintain employment. And
like the now-ubiquitous Social Security number — which, recall, was
"never to be used for identification purposes," but which is now almost
impossible to conduct any business without — the coming national
ID/driver's license will almost certainly become an item without which
one cannot open a bank account, obtain a credit card, purchase a car or
home, and so on.
As Eric Skrum of the National Motorists Association put it recently:
"Ultimately, anybody in any state with a card reader would be able to
look up your personal driving record, credit rating, Social Security
number, health information, personal address, and anything else the
government would force you to divulge in order to 'voluntarily' obtain a
driver's license."
They can call it whatever they want, but the end result will be the same.
This bill should be rejected as being incompatible with a free society.

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Re: Teaching a pig to sing (was Re: Intellectual output fromtheArabWorld)

[Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten]

Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote in response to a post by "Adam C.
Lipscomb":

> Jeroen knows he is no anti-semite no matter how much you want it to be true or no 
>matter how you define it. I know
> he isn't, because I know him. So I guess that is what's important, all the rest is a 
>waste of space.

I apologise for making it seem that Adam called Jeroen an anti-semite.
He didn't and it wasn't intended to make it
seem like he did. I should have reread my post a few more times and
realised that I hadn't used the proper quotes to
make the point correctly.

Sonja,

GCU: Sorry Adam.
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Re: This Message Is For Male Brinellers Only

[Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten]

Julia Thompson wrote:

> "J. van Baardwijk" wrote:
> >
> > At 09:49 07-10-2002 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
> >
> > >Now, there are times when everything else is *not* being equal, and I
> > >have to unload and load the dishwasher 3 or 4 times in a row before Dan
> > >does both tasks, and then he'll either crow about it or complain when I
> > >don't notice.  :)
> >
> > Hey, us men would appreciate some recognition for our work too, you know!   :-)
>
> I know, it's just a bit much to ask for extra appreciation for *one*
> iteration when three or four of *mine* are ignored.  :)
>
> I'm hoping his workload drops off some later this month, and then it
> won't be so much of an issue.  (He took his first 2-day weekend since at
> least August just now, to give you an idea of how it's been.)

Seconded.

I really get upset when I've spent a lot of time on certain tasks and it is met with
a shrug, trampled underfoot or worse even... simply being taken for granted. I mean
ironing for one is such a depressing task. You iron it, it gets used and crumpled in
a corner. Infuriating, dismissiv. I find housework so under appreciated. It can take
me all day to get something in order. Doing task after task, chore after chore and at
the end of the day I have nothing obvious to show for it, worse at the end of the
second day you can't even find a clue as to whether something has been done or not.
And at the end of the month you have nothing showing for all your hard labour in your
bankaccount, except all those drafts for the shopping that has been done. Having a
toddler around doesn't really help to improve that feeling. ;o)

That is probably why I still like doing some DIY. That is if I can find the time and
some Tom-free space. At least you can see that something's been done, without it
being turned into dust and rubble within a few hours. (That is if you didn't botch
the job ;o) )
I guess it is just inherent to the job of housewife. On the bright side... I can go
out, spent special time with Tom whenever I like. Or me and Tom can go and visit
friends for a cup a coffee. We can go for a swim  in the middle of the day. I can sit
behind the puter and  oops, look at the time! I really need to start doing
something usefull, right away. :o)

Sonja
Housewife extraordinairy at your service. :o)

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Re: This Message Is For Male Brinellers Only

[Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten]

"Adam C. Lipscomb" wrote:

> Jim wrote:
> >
> > Julia Thompson wrote:
> > > "J. van Baardwijk" wrote:
> > >>
> > >>At 09:49 07-10-2002 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Now, there are times when everything else is *not* being equal,
> > >>>and I have to unload and load the dishwasher 3 or 4 times in a
> row
> > >>>before Dan does both tasks, and then he'll either crow about it
> > >>>or complain when I don't notice.  :)
> > >>
> > >>Hey, us men would appreciate some recognition for our work too,
> you
> > >>know!   :-)
> > >
> > >I know, it's just a bit much to ask for extra appreciation for
> *one*
> > >iteration when three or four of *mine* are ignored.  :)
> >
> > What you clearly don't understand about men is that we expect a
> reaction about the same as we would normally reserve for a baby taking
> his first steps when we do housework without being asked.  :)
>
> I used to, but I decided that I'd best shut my mouth and do my share.
> Which I do.  In point of fact, I really enjoy the cooking, and
> cleaning up afterwards means I get to organize the kitchen *my* way.

My kitchen is a very static one. That means that every ittybitty little
item has it's own spot. I get really very annoyed and grumpy when stuff is
out of place. After a forced rearanging of the kitchen (in order to create
more space or to fit in a new item) it takes me months to make the mental
switch. After three years of a big reorganisation I managed to still open
the wrong cupboard for plates or spices. Jeroen is sensible enough to not
try and mess with the kitchen order too much when he cooks his Jeroen
specials I like so much. :o).

Sonja.
GCU: Creature of habit

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