Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 10:08 AM 11/5/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:

There was a drug one of the drug companies had a patent for.  It was
found to be useful for treating a very specific form of a fatal cancer
that only a few thousand people have.  They sat on it for more than 7
years, doing nothing, because their was 'no market' for it, despite the
fact that it could have been a useful remedy.  It turn out that when they
did test it on the subjects, in a very short period of time the people
who were otherwise dying of this cancer, taking this medicine had tumor
reductions of something like ~90 percent.


So are they using the drug now?  What is it called?



Sure I can.  It worked for 99.999 percent of human history.  When you
raise the tide, all boat float higher.


Do you feel the same way about that statement when it is used to justify 
tax cuts and "trickle-down" economic policies?



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 12:34 PM 11/5/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:

The Government can throw a much larger amount a money, and resources at
any given problem, and should, that one of it's functions.]


Really?  Where in the Constitution does it say that that is a function of 
the government?  And where does the money they throw at things come from?



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: Re: Continuing Education

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 05:18 PM 11/5/03 -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:


Most of Yes' catalogue is being rereleased via some excellent remasters from
Rhino Records. Really fabulous and lush sound as compared to the original CD
versions.


Some of us still have it on 8-track . . .



Really Someday I Will Clean Out My Closets Maru

-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 06:00 PM 11/5/03 -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote:

Debbi
whose stance on convicted murderers getting organ
transplants *could* be described as Puritanical...  ;)


How about _donating_, ala Larry Niven?



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: WARNING(virus check bypassed): Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 04:31 PM 11/5/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:


On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:
>
> > Ass flash from Erik!
>
> Butt in from Rob!
What, are we approaching a full moon?


Actually, yes.

With a total eclipse.  Saturday night.



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: Country music evil?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 06:31 PM 11/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:


> If I had a time machine, I might go back and shoot
> Billy Ray Cyrus.
Now Julia is endorsing violence! Good heavens!

Damon :P
Seconded.

Obligatory third line.

Kevin T. - VRWC
See no evil
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Re: Country music evil?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 08:59 PM 11/5/2003 -0600, you wrote:


On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Damon Agretto wrote:

>
>
> > If I had a time machine, I might go back and shoot
> > Billy Ray Cyrus.
>
> Now Julia is endorsing violence! Good heavens!
Could just be with a trank gun every so often  :)

Or once with some sort of drug that would side-track him from writing that
one @#$% song.
Julia


But he didn't write that song. Don Von Tress did.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Just the facts ma'am
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Wal-Mart recruits voters to overthrow laws

[The Fool]

<>

Wal-Mart Shops for Voters

By Ruth Rosen, San Francisco Chronicle
November 5, 2003

Imagine that you earn $8 an hour working for Wal-Mart. Then, you learn
that the store is recruiting workers, at $10 an hour, to convince
neighbors and shoppers to vote against a law that would limit the size of
"big- box'' stores in unincorporated areas of Contra Costa County, in the
San Francisco Bay Area. 


Great, you think. I'll apply. But Wal-Mart won't hire its own workers
because the corporation isn't sure it's legal to use them to promote a
political campaign. 


When you realize that Wal-Mart will pay higher wages to those campaigning
to keep your wages low, you get angry – which is how I've learned about
the Arkansas retailer's countywide plans to repeal the ordinance. 


Last June, the Contra Costa Country Board of Supervisors passed the ban
when it recognized that Wal-Mart's seductive low prices come with hidden
costs to residents. The retailer's subsistence wages drive down the pay
of other workers; its huge super-centers undermine local small businesses
and create more traffic congestion. Taxpayers, moreover, end up paying
for workers' health care because they can't afford costly benefits on
such low pay. 


In response, Wal-Mart – which never takes no for an answer – immediately
parachuted in paid workers to gather 27,000 signatures to force
supervisors to either rescind the ban or place the issue before the
voters. Supervisors have put the question on the March 2 ballot. 


To fight off these restrictions, Wal-Mart has just launched a campaign to
convince the community to vote "no." At its Martinez, Pittsburg and
Antioch stores, Wal-Mart has hung banners and posters its new "Consumer
Action Network (CAN)," a rather transparent effort to persuade shoppers
to vote against the limiting ordinance. 


Last week, workers at Wal-Mart handed out flyers that describe CAN as a
"good government" program. (Many low-income shoppers, who receive some
form of government assistance, might mistakenly think CAN is a
government-sponsored program.) 


In exchange for signing a membership card (and providing your personal
information), you get "a personal membership card, free newsletters,
important bulletins and an invitation to special events." 


You also get a chance to fill out a voter registration application, which
is conveniently mailed to Wal-Mart's CAN, rather than to the registrar of
voters. If you want more information, you are referred to an 800
telephone number. 


But 20 calls to the number elicited the same response: "Only 'Kathy'
knows about the program, she's on the other line, so just leave your name
and number." Is it conceivable that Wal-Mart has hired only one person
who is familiar with CAN? Or is this just a ploy to gather names and
phone numbers to enlist shoppers in its political campaign? 


Meanwhile, a coalition of community activists is gearing up to support
the ordinance. They include the nonprofit group ACORN, which promotes
affordable housing and open space; union members; and religious,
environmental and "smart growth" organizations. But they face a
formidable enemy – the largest corporation in the world, which has
unlimited funds to reach their intended goal of building 40 new
super-centers in California. 


Supervisor John Gioia knows that "Wal-Mart will have a great advantage.
It will also turn it into an anti-union campaign. So we need to appeal to
the good sense of Contra Costa County voters and explain that this is
about losing open space and taxpayers subsidizing Wal-Mart. It's also
about Contra Costa County – not Wal-Mart executives in Bentonville, Ark.
– having the right to make its own decisions about local planning. " 


Now, the challenge is to convince Contra Costa County voters that the
lowest possible prices come at a steep price for the entire community.

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See the Cowardly Eye Blink

[The Fool]

<>

See the Cowardly Eye Blink

November 5, 2003


"Propaganda isn't what you tell people," CBS founder William S. Paley
used to say. "It's what you don't tell them."

And now, on the evenings of Nov. 16 and 18, viewers at Paley's old
network won't be told anything at all about Ronald Reagan, the president
or the man.

The propagandists win again.

Yesterday, CBS bowed to political pressure from a zealous band of
conservative enforcers, deep-sixing a four-hour miniseries about the
former First Family.

The critics had claimed that "The Reagans" was inadequately flattering to
the 40th president. Nowhere in the miniseries, it seems, was Reagan shown
walking on water. The dialogue apparently included a curse word or two
and a passage where Reagan seemed to lack sympathy for the victims of
AIDS. So now the whole two-night program is being shunted off to a small
pay-cable service owned by the network's parent, Viacom. CBS won't air a
single word.

Too bad old man Paley isn't still around to witness this. He knew from
hard experience how a television network must protect its independence
and integrity. Rule No. 1: Don't let the partisan interest groups control
what you air.

Oh, president Les Moonves and the current crew at CBS denied yesterday
that they were crumbling to outside pressure. "This decision is based
solely on our reaction to seeing the final film, not the controversy that
erupted around a draft of the script," the network bosses harrumphed.

If so, what an amazing coincidence it was!

Just as the national Republican chairman and some old Reagan cronies
raised their complaints - and a boycott-CBS campaign was launched -
Moonves and Viacom chiefs Sumner Redstone and Mel Karmazin arrived at an
independent, journalistic epiphany: The miniseries wasn't sufficiently
balanced, they decided. And that led the execs to trash the work of an
experienced producing team, toss a $9-million investment and shoot a
giant hole into the network's November sweeps lineup.

As Gomer Pyle liked to say on the old CBS: "Goll-lee!"

It was just Sunday night that CBS threw itself a lavish 75th-anniversary
bash. Manhattan's Hammerstein Ballroom was packed with CBS luminaries.
The air was thick with self-congratulation. How CBS set the highest
standards. How CBS was Tiffany TV. How CBS always knew where to draw the
lines.

Only Dick and Tommy Smothers reminded the crowd that night how
conservative pressure once led the network to ditch their edgy variety
show. It seemed like a funny, ancient story Sunday, an embarrassing
exception to the general CBS rule.

By yesterday, it was 1969 all over again. A politically charged
entertainment program was being sacrificed at CBS to satisfy conservative
complainers. This time, the Ronald Reagan fan club didn't like that actor
James Brolin, Barbra Streisand's husband, was cast as the Gipper. And
they didn't like a few leaked snatches of dialogue.

But wait!

"The Reagans" miniseries never pretended to be journalism. It's not an
encyclopedia entry or a documentary film, any more than the "Smothers
Brothers Comedy Hour" was. It's a silly four-hour movie made for TV.
Since when are TV movies held to standards like this?

"Roots?" "The Thorn Birds?" The new one about the kidnap girl Elizabeth
Smart? Which of those is drawn entirely from tape-recorded, on-the-record
dialogue?

So why the sudden rigidity over Ronald Reagan?

I'll tell you why.

The conservative cultural war is heating up again. And in this war,
nothing is as sacred as Reagan's legacy.

He is, after all, the president credited by conservatives with leading
them out of the wilderness. He saved the world from Communism, didn't he?
He had that giant tax cut. To his partisans, Reagan can never do anything
wrong. Only a plaster saint will do.

These Reagan idolaters can't stand the idea that their man, like every
president, like every man, also had his faults. No, he didn't walk on
water. He made some blunders, too. Iran-Contra happened on his watch. He
left gigantic deficits. His wife could be a little batty. He could be
forgetful at times. His temper occasionally got the better of him.

But don't go looking for that at sweeps time on CBS. The propagandists
won another one. Reagan's name won't be spoken at all. 

-
I Pledge Impertinence to the Flag-Waving of the Unindicted
Co-Conspirators of America
and to the Republicans for which I can't stand
one Abomination, Underhanded Fraud
Indefensible
with Liberty and Justice Forget it.

 -Life in Hell (Matt Groening)

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Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs

[The Fool]

VATICAN CITY—As Pope John Paul II enters his 26th year as pontiff, the
world is stopping to reflect on the legendary funnyman's career as one of
the most influential performers in modern history. Standing staunchly
against contraception and women's equality right through the turn of the
21st century, the pope and his quirky, deadpan comic persona still
entertain audiences around the world.

Revered by multiple generations for his weird and wonderful wit, the
83-year-old pontiff is perhaps the best-known stand-up alive today.
Throughout an amazing two and a half decades as head of the Catholic
Church, the pope has produced, in both his live appearances and his
published works, a treasure trove of humor second to none.

"I can still remember seeing him do his classic 'Galileo' bit in the
early '90s," said fellow comedian George Carlin, referring to the pope's
1992 declaration that the church erred in condemning Galileo. "Here was
this man, appearing on televisions around the world, making a
proclamation that the sun does not move around the earth. I laughed until
tears rolled down my cheeks."

"No one could touch the pope," Carlin added. "Hell, no one even tried. He
was in a class of his own. One of a kind."

Born Karol Joseph Wojtyla in Wadowice, a town 35 miles southwest of
Krakow, the pope did not have an easy childhood. In what may have
contributed to his desire to inspire laughter, he faced many early
hardships. His mother died just a month before his 9th birthday, and only
three years later, his brother died of scarlet fever. The pope began his
religious career shortly thereafter, studying in an underground seminary
in Krakow. He established himself in the Krakow scene and was awarded an
archbishopric in 1963. He made cardinal in 1967.

Among the works to give the pope his first taste of fame was his 1960
treatise Love And Responsibility, in which he defined a "modern Catholic
sexual ethic." It was here that the pope developed his oft-repeated
chestnut that the only acceptable act of sex is one intended for the
creation of a child.

"The pope would always lean on his material about sex," director Woody
Allen said. "He had this crazy, special way of looking at the world. I
definitely count him among my influences."

After years of working the smaller cathedrals, the pope's hard work paid
off. On Oct. 16, 1978, he was chosen to head Rome's most venerated
comedic institution, the Vatican. 

"No one else is still doing what the Vatican does," comedian Don Rickles
said. "They may not be as big as they once were, but they still
surprise—like that bit a few weeks ago, where they said condoms don't
prevent AIDS. Was that improvised?"

After 25 years at the top of his field, the pope still draws a crowd. On
Oct. 19, he presided over the beatification of Mother Teresa. More than a
quarter of a million people flooded St. Peter's Square to witness the
stunt, in which the pope declared that the hard-working, benevolent nun
had performed miracles and possessed supernatural powers.

The pope has created more saints and beatified more people than all the
previous popes combined, and no other pope has toured as extensively as
he has. The quintessential showman loves to take his act on the road.
He's entertained audiences in 117 countries and met with hundreds of
world leaders, including dictators Augusto Pinochet and Fidel Castro.

"John Paul is the hardest-working pope in history," actor Jonathan
Winters said. "He's an inspiration. And not just for other comedians like
myself, but for everyone, from theologians who will never be ordained
because they're women, on down to the little children in the crowded
ghettos of Third World cities who heed his message about the evils of
contraception. Let's not even go into the gays in Boise."

Since his first trip back to Poland in 1978, the pope has performed in
front of millions of loyal fans all over the world.

"People would wait in line for hours to see him," comedian Joey Bishop
said. "And he never failed to deliver. He'd be out there working the
crowd—shaking hands, kissing babies. Wherever he went, they loved him."

The pope has also been lauded for his ability to think on his feet.
Throughout his many years in the business, the pope has often been called
upon to deliver a comeback when questioned about acts committed by the
Catholic Church. 

"John Paul II has riffed on everything from the Crusades and the Spanish
Inquisition to the treatment of Jews and blacks," actor Bob Newhart
said."He's always had a unique ability to come at things in an unexpected
way. I saw him last year on TV, talking about those molestation scandals.
His main message was that Catholics shouldn't lose faith in the clergy.
Hilarious! Now, I would've gone straight to some kind of apology to the
victims, but I guess that's why he's the pope."

The master of the lightning-speed one-liner produced a string of
memorable side-splitters earlier this year. When meeting with the Dutch
ambassador to the Vat

Re: Country music evil?

[Adam C. Lipscomb]

Dan wrote:
>
> I don't listen to country music, but my wife is from E. Tennessee and I've
> gotten a taste for the older, non-commercial stuff.  Our musical tastes
are
> fairly eclectic, from classical to jazz, to gospel, to R&B, to rock.  Teri
> and I don't care much for rap, although I do like the very best of it. My
> kids are into singing older types of music  with my daughter singing
arias,
> my son loving to sing Cab Calloway, Sinatra, and Tony Bennett tunes. As
far
> as I'm concerned, I say my kids have all my musical talent, that's why
none
> is left. ;-)

99% of the stuff you hear on the radio these days isn't Country Music.  It's
crap.

Man, Hank Sr. crapped bigger ones than Brooks and Dunn.

That said, I prefer bluegress to the more western-oriented country, but Lyle
Lovett is in a class by himself.  The dude rocks.

Adam C. Lipscomb
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Country music evil?

[The Fool]

> From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> >
> > Now see, you go and say something like this which raises my opinion
of
> you
> > to a high level. Anyone who is an enemy of country music is a friend
of
> mine.
> 
> I've got a question for you, are you opposed to all country music or
just
> the nonsense that is played on most country music stations.  For
example do
> you  hate all of the below?
> 
> Bluegrass
> Lyle Leavitt
> the music featured in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?
> the music of Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys?
> late 19th century country music which is tied to 16th and 17th century
> English music?

In darkness they were born, seethed in vileness, unleashed they destroy
all that good and pure, corruption and desecration emanating from them,
they twist and defile all that comes before them as their pervasive evil
seeps into the depraved hearts of men.

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Re: Marxism with religon inversed - Santorum style [L3]

[The Fool]

> From: Michael Harney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> From: "Alberto Monteiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> >
> > Michael Harney wrote:
> > >
> > > As for christian reconstructionists being "evil", I disagree.
> > > Evil implies malicious intent.  I don't believe that their intents
> > > are malicious.  I just think they are misguided.
> > >
> > No, evil implies [Heinlein's definition, or some paraphrase] causing
> > unecessary pain to sentient beings.
> 
> Hypothetical: Someone is driving along and their brakes go out without
> warning.  An accident occurs that results in one or more deaths.  Even
if
> what happens is a total accident, it is evil?  Are you sure Heinlein's
> definition wasn't *intentionally* causing unnecessary pain to a
sentient
> being?
> 
> > There are vast classes of Evil that are done with the purest of
> > intentions, like building a cleaner world with only a few thousand
> > happy human beings - so let's kill the other 5,999,990,000
> 
> I'm sorry, but you have oversimplified the example to the point that
you
> can't see the trees through the forest (Yes, I meant it the way I typed
it)
> .  An intentional murder or harming of another *requires* malicious
intent.
> If you have intent to deliberately harm someone (regardless of
> justification) that is the very definition of malicious intent. 
Malicious
> intent means, quite litterally, wanting to do harm to another.  For an
act
> to be evil it requires intent to do harm to another, ie: malicious
intent.

So in other words the god of the bible is Evil because he intends to kill
everyone who doesn't think the right way, and a very graphic and
malicious way.

QED
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Re: Marxism with religon inversed - Santorum style [L3]

[Alberto Monteiro]

The Fool wrote:
> 
>> Sorry, but I don't understand. Which of these are your opinions,
>> the opinions of the web page you seem to quote from, and
>> Santorum's opinions?
>
> There was a slight bit of format loss from the site.  I didn't comment on
> this one, 
>
Ok, so none of that post was _your_ opinion - except that you
seem to agree to Santorum's basher.

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: Scouted: String Theory Interview with Brian Green

[Alberto Monteiro]

Deborah Harrell wrote:
>
> A connected article from this one, about the
> 'holographic universe' [on page 2], reports that
> "information capacity depends on surface area."  
>
This is nice, but it's an _approximation_. The surface
of the brain is not a mathematical surface, because
it's made of dots - the cells. In a macroscopic
approximation, the surface of the brain can be
considered a fractal surface, and fractals have the
amazing property that a finite volume can contain
a surface of infinite area.

Rigorously, the analogy of area and volume [resp.
2D and 3D measures of size] when applied to
fractals are things with (n)-D, where 2 < n < 3.

Getting back to approximations, it's something like 
"the surface of my brain measures 0.014 meters^(5/2)"

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: Republican Browncoats now censoring public TV

[The Fool]

> From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 04:55 AM 11/5/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
> >What with a republican senator threatening to revoke CBS's broadcast
> >licence over a miniseries that CBS was going to show, and the RNC
> >demanding editorial power over what CBS shows, when in fact CBS had
> >documentation for every single scene and line in the mini series, like
> >the following:
> >
> >In "Dutch," Reagan's __authorized__ biography, the author, Edmund
Morris,
> >writes that Reagan once said of AIDS, "Maybe the Lord brought down
this
> >plague," because "illicit sex is against the Ten Commandments."
> 
> 
> 
> However, according to another report I received, the line the actor 
> portraying President Reagan delivers in the show as filmed is actually:
> 
> "They that live in sin shall die in sin,"
> 
> I have not personally seen the show or the script, so it is possible
that 
> may not be an accurate transcript.  If accurate, though, it certainly 
> sounds worse than the line quoted above from the authorized 
> biography.  Perhaps there would have been fewer objections if the
former 
> President had been correctly quoted.

Acording to bartcop:

1192

<>

"
Some of us are old enough to remember Von Reagan's two faces and his
harpy shrew of a wife. 
Reagan's attitude towards gays was, "Fuck 'em, they're faggots." I was
there. I f-ing remember. 
"
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Re: Marxism with religon inversed - Santorum style [L3]

[Alberto Monteiro]

Michael Harney wrote:
>
>> No, evil implies [Heinlein's definition, or some paraphrase] causing
>> unecessary pain to sentient beings.
>
> Hypothetical: 
>
You are so literal. Are you sure you are not a mathematician? :-P

> Someone is driving along and their brakes go out without
> warning.  An accident occurs that results in one or more deaths.  Even if
> what happens is a total accident, it is evil?  Are you sure Heinlein's
> definition wasn't *intentionally* causing unnecessary pain to a sentient
> being?
>
Yes. And we should add a brin-esque qualifier, chaning "sentient"
to "potentially sentient". Then why limit to living beings? It's Evil
to cause pain to AIs that can suffer pain.

> Malicious
> intent means, quite litterally, wanting to do harm to another.  For an act
> to be evil it requires intent to do harm to another, ie: malicious intent.
>
But you can also be Evil without any intention to do harm anyone.
Imagine that you are the Overlord of a MegaCorporation, and this
MegaCorpororation owns a Research Laboratory on drugs. Some
of your employees are researching a vaccine that prevents Alzheimer:
take it once and Alzheimer is avoided for another 10 years. Other
employees are researching a drug that slows down the advance
of Alzheimer by a factor of 10, but it requires a pill that must be
taken once a day. You decide to decomission the vaccine and
focus the research on the drug. This is Evil, even if you are chosing
an outcome that benefits millions of people.


I believe a cure of Cancer or AIDS hasn't been found because
the Pharmaceutical industries prefer to create drugs that
create a lifetime addiction by slowing down the effects of the
diseases.

Capitalism is Evil.


Alberto Monteiro


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Re: Country music evil?

[Adam C. Lipscomb]

The Fool wrote:
(Yes, folks, I think he actually typed this himself, rather than
cut-and-pasted!  Yay!)

> > From: Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Bluegrass
> > Lyle Leavitt
> > the music featured in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?
> > the music of Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys?
> > late 19th century country music which is tied to 16th and 17th century
> > English music?
>
> In darkness they were born, seethed in vileness, unleashed they destroy
> all that good and pure, corruption and desecration emanating from them,
> they twist and defile all that comes before them as their pervasive evil
> seeps into the depraved hearts of men.

Er, yeah.  This from a guy that can't tell the difference between Slim
Whitman and Walt Whitman.  Cultural Literacy, anyone?

Adam C. Lipscomb
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://aclipscomb.blogspot.com

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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[The Fool]

> From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> At 10:08 AM 11/5/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
> 
> >There was a drug one of the drug companies had a patent for.  It was
> >found to be useful for treating a very specific form of a fatal cancer
> >that only a few thousand people have.  They sat on it for more than 7
> >years, doing nothing, because their was 'no market' for it, despite
the
> >fact that it could have been a useful remedy.  It turn out that when
they
> >did test it on the subjects, in a very short period of time the people
> >who were otherwise dying of this cancer, taking this medicine had
tumor
> >reductions of something like ~90 percent.
> 
> 
> 
> So are they using the drug now?  What is it called?
> 

I forget, it was in article about evolution I was reading several months
ago.
 
> 
> >Sure I can.  It worked for 99.999 percent of human history.  When you
> >raise the tide, all boat float higher.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you feel the same way about that statement when it is used to
justify 
> tax cuts and "trickle-down" economic policies?

Tax cuts for the rich and shrubs leave-no-millionaire-behind ($93500)
give away while people making between $10500-$26500 get $0, hardly raises
any boats at all (only the yachts of the rich).  Trickle down economics
only benefit the rich.

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CBS caves to right wing

[The Fool]

<>

Editorial: CBS caves to right wing 

An editorial
November 6, 2003

CBS celebrated its 75th anniversary Sunday night with a three-hour
special that included a tribute to its once-pioneering news operation and
the network's executives who consistently stood behind it. 

The memories of greats like Edward R. Murrow, Douglas Edwards and, of
course, Walter Cronkite were cited as examples of principled newsmen who
had the guts to tackle controversial issues. CBS President Bill Paley and
director of CBS News Frank Stanton refused to buckle when powerful
interests tried to have them silenced - old Joe McCarthy, for example,
was one who tried and failed to muzzle Murrow's reports on the senator's
underhanded methods. 

But that was obviously another day at CBS. 

The new CBS, now controlled by Viacom, a huge multinational media
conglomerate, obviously can't take the heat - especially when it might
threaten its insatiable bottom line and its efforts to get even more
favors from Congress. 

The network bowed to the even more vitriolic than usual right-wing talk
shows, conservative threats of an boycott and allegedly outraged
politicians and pulled the planned showing of "The Reagans," a story
about Ronald and Nancy Reagan. No one had seen the show, scheduled to run
during the ratings sweeps on Nov. 16 and 18, but conservatives jumped on
leaked snippets of the script to claim that it "distorted" the Reagans'
legacy. 

In a classic example of modern-day McCarthyism, one of the reasons behind
the right-wingers' pique was that James Brolin, the husband of outspoken
liberal Barbra Streisand, plays Reagan in the picture. 

So, tradition be damned, CBS backed down, deciding instead to show the
production sometime over the winter on Showtime, a cable-only network
also owned by Viacom. 

What shouldn't be lost in all this is the simple fact that Viacom is one
of several media giants hoping to reap huge financial rewards if new
Federal Communications Commission rules on media ownership are allowed to
stand. The FCC relaxed the ownership rules earlier this year, but
Congress is threatening to overturn them. 

It surely is not in Viacom's interest right now to further agitate
Republican members of Congress by airing a film on their heroes, Ronald
and Nancy Reagan. 

What this all clearly underscores is the necessity to completely reverse
the FCC's decision. The country needs more independent media outlets,
like CBS once was, not more Viacoms that put financial implications ahead
of free expression and the public's right in a democratic society to hear
and see all sides. 

Viacom's cave-in to the modern-day equivalent of book burners comes the
same week that thousands are expected to converge on Madison for the
first-ever National Conference on Media Reform. 

The conference was inspired by the massive discontent over the state of
media consolidation in the United States. 

Perhaps the organizers ought to open the conference Friday by thanking
Viacom for proving their contention. 


-
I Pledge Impertinence to the Flag-Waving of the Unindicted
Co-Conspirators of America
and to the Republicans for which I can't stand
one Abomination, Underhanded Fraud
Indefensible
with Liberty and Justice Forget it.

 -Life in Hell (Matt Groening)

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Re: Country music evil?

[William T Goodall]

On 6 Nov 2003, at 12:10 pm, Adam C. Lipscomb wrote:

Dan wrote:
I don't listen to country music, but my wife is from E. Tennessee and 
I've
gotten a taste for the older, non-commercial stuff.  Our musical 
tastes
are
fairly eclectic, from classical to jazz, to gospel, to R&B, to rock.  
Teri
and I don't care much for rap, although I do like the very best of 
it. My
kids are into singing older types of music  with my daughter singing
arias,
my son loving to sing Cab Calloway, Sinatra, and Tony Bennett tunes. 
As
far
as I'm concerned, I say my kids have all my musical talent, that's why
none
is left. ;-)
99% of the stuff you hear on the radio these days isn't Country Music. 
 It's
crap.

Man, Hank Sr. crapped bigger ones than Brooks and Dunn.

That said, I prefer bluegress to the more western-oriented country, 
but Lyle
Lovett is in a class by himself.  The dude rocks.

Each country has some aberrant form of 'music' that the rest of the 
world finds easy to ignore. The French have that wailing women and 
accordions stuff, the Germans that oom pa pa and lederhosen gig, and 
the Americans - Country Music.

I get about 20 music video channels and none of them are Country. There 
was a CMTV Europe a few years back, but it shut down due to lack of 
interest.

The nearest to Country music that gets played on the radio or TV here 
is crossover stuff from Shania Twain, Faith Hill and LeAnn Rimes. Which 
is good :)

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it.
-- Donald E. Knuth
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wingnut debate dictionary

[The Fool]

<>

Acoulteration (n.) - The act of adding copious endnotes in an attempt to
give the sham appearance that one's writings are scholarly, methodically
researched and based in fact. From Coulter, Ann. (Renato)

Audio'reilly (v.) - To adjust the sound level relative to the opponent,
either electronically or vocally, to make one's argument appear stronger.
>From O'Reilly, Bill. (PapaJijo)

Cheney's Razor (n.) - A philosophic rule that the most complex
explanation of an unknown phenomenon is probably correct. From Cheney,
Dick. (CF)

Cotton Dandy (n.) - One who attributes greatness to his political patrons
in the most saccharine, cliched, idealistic prose available, which under
even mild scrutiny, fails to have any substance behind it. From Sullivan,
Andrew. (Anon.)

Den Beste ex Machina (n.) - The creation of a fake political movement,
such as Transnational Progressivism, that has virtually no basis in
reality in order to disparage ideological opponents. From Den Beste,
Steven. (Jesse Taylor)

Disinglennuousness (n.) - The practice of saying, after the fact, that
just because you linked to something outrageous with "THIS IS
INTERESTING" or "EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS", you don't necessarily agree
with the linked sentiments, their having been exposed as utter
pig-bollocks. From Reynolds, Glenn. (Nick Sweeney)

Freepler Shift (n.) - Claiming a source is further in one partisan
direction than can reasonably be claimed. From Free Republic.
(Lakema/Renato)

Glenndemma (n.) - When the disconnect between what you believe in and
reality grows to such a degree that you become confused and either docile
or unusually aggressive. Symptoms of Glenndemma include arguing that Bill
Clinton and Paul Krugman are responsible for troop deaths (angry
reaction) in Iraq, or refusing to discuss any issue relevant to global
climate change (docile reaction). Bizarre leaps in logic are usually a
certain sign of Glenndemma. Construction: "Reaching a" or "being in a".
>From Reynolds, Glenn. (RulerOfMyApartmentstania)

Glennuendo (n.) - The act of drawing a darkly ominous inference from an
opponent's failure to discuss a political issue. From Reynolds, Glenn.
(Vaara)

Grain of Galt (n.) - No matter the topic area, the assertion that you
know someone who works in/is deeply involved in it, and therefore you
know what you're talking about. From Galt, Jane. (Jesse Taylor)

Malkinization (n.) - Usage of questionable or irrelevant anecdotes in
support of a position when statistics disprove the position. Cognates:
Malkious, malkiniously. From Malkin, Michelle. ()

O'Reillyus Interruptus (v.) - To be cut off from making a really good
point or argument by a radio or cable TV talk show host. Usually involves
being loudly shouted down, having one's mic cut (if in a studio), or
being "potted down" (if calling in to a radio program). Odds of this
happening are greatly increased the closer one gets to the truth. From
O'Reilly, Bill. (Renato)

Penis Glennvy (n.) - The belief that by linking to Instapundit and his
posts, rightwing bloggers can extend their influence and reputation into
the
blogosphere. Indeed. From Reynolds, Glenn. (GFW)

Reductio ad Hannitum (n.) - To ask your evil liberal guest something
patently ridiculous, then, while they roll their eyes, accuse them of
"dodging the question". From Hannity, Sean. (Leo)

Rosh Herring (n.) - A post by a person, supporting himself, but posted
under a pseudonym and pretending to be someone else. From Lott, John (aka
Mary Rosh). (JH)

Sully (v.) - To pretend people who were clearly speaking metaphorically
were speaking literally, and criticize them based on that. Also known as
the "War on Metaphor". From Sullivan, Andrew. (Matthew Yglesias/Andrew
Northrup)

Tucker Gambit (n.) - Baiting your opponent into a seemingly hypocritical
position by using an irrelevant triviality as if it were germane to the
topic; usually followed by shock and outrage at opponent's (expected)
response. From Carlson, Tucker. (Kherr)

Zellmanella (n.) - Afflication whereby you claim that you are a
"life-long Democrat", but now you're disgusted by the party's negativity,
and you've fallen for the steely-eyed Dubya. Sufferers are known as
"Zellots". From Miller, Zell.


-
I Pledge Impertinence to the Flag-Waving of the Unindicted
Co-Conspirators of America
and to the Republicans for which I can't stand
one Abomination, Underhanded Fraud
Indefensible
with Liberty and Justice Forget it.

 -Life in Hell (Matt Groening)

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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Andrew Crystall]

On 6 Nov 2003 at 0:31, William T Goodall wrote:

> 
> On 5 Nov 2003, at 6:59 pm, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> 
> > --- The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Lilly lost most of its Prozac market share in
>  _weeks_
> >>
> >> Most likely because of price.  You can't tell me
> >> that a company given a
> >> 17 year monopoly can't make a drug just as cheaply
> >> as a newcomer.
> >
> > It can.  But it can't make them _any cheaper_ than a
> > newcomer could.  There are hundreds of generic
> > manufacturers.  So Lilly could get, say, one half of
> > one percent of the market with its new drug.  When it
> > spend _$1BB_ to get that drug to market.
> >
> > Even worse from a drug company's perspective,
> > pharmaceuticals are an almost classic Ec. 101 product.
> >  Very low barriers to entry, and drugs made by
> > different companies are indistinguishable.  So what
> > happens?  The product will be sold very near to the
> > marginal cost of production.  In the case of drugs,
> > the MC of production is _extremely_ low.  And, in
> > fact, generic manufacturers are far less profitable
> > than the creators of new drugs.
> >> So your saying almost the entire cost of making a
> >> drug is the FDA
> >> approval process w/ clinical trial?  Sound like
> >> something the government
> >> should be funding to me.
> >
> > Yes, this is well known.  The _second pill_ costs a
> > few cents.  The first pill costs a billion dollars.
> 
> I don't know much about economics so feel free to educate me, but
> isn't a big chunk of the wealth of 'Western Industrialized' countries
> (USA, Europe, Japan) actually IP ? Levis, Nike, Coke, Raybans is all
> stuff that costs very little to make (and is made in countries with
> cheap labour if possible) but has a high value because of IP. 'Fakes'
> are illegal, even if those 'fakes' came out the back door of the same
> factory that makes the 'real' product.

They're generally NOT illegal over here, and indeed companies are 
allways getting fined for stamping down on "grey market imports".

> A Sony TV or Walkman has a premium price because it was designed in
> Japan and has the brand name even though it may be built in Mexico or
> Korea.

You're paying for reputation, quality and service as well. If the 
generic products are as good, they sell.

I'd restrict IP to products with an true inivotive (sp) step, and 
only actual products rather than methods or ideas. The European 
patent model is a lot more like this than the American one, but has a 
lot of details I object to.

Things like books, I'd like a different category of protection of, 
and I'd eliminate the "protect it or lose it" part of the IP laws and 
replace it with "make it or lose it".

Andy

Andy
Dawn Falcon

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Re: Scouted: String Theory Interview with Brian Green

[Julia Thompson]

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Jim Sharkey wrote:

> 
> Julia Thompson wrote:
> >Jon Gabriel wrote:
> >> It is, but you left out the brooding violins and skimpy leather 
> >>lingerie.
> >I'd *like* to resemble that remark
> 
> Yeah, good luck with that one.  Between a toddler and twins, I can only
> assume foreplay now consists of "You know, the kids are asleep..."  :)

Between the toddler and the twins, we're lucky if we can both be asleep at 
the same time in the same bed right now.  :P  Managed a few hours of it 
last night, though.

(If babies are fussing, they're my responsibility until 3AM, his except 
for feeding after 3AM.  Whoever isn't dealing with fussy babies gets to 
sleep in another room from them.  I got over 5 hours total last night, 
which was heavenly, actually.)

Julia

and the toddler refrained from waking up and bounding into the bedroom 
until after we were up anyway this morning, which was also very nice

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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Crystall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean


> On 6 Nov 2003 at 0:31, William T Goodall wrote:
>
> >
> > On 5 Nov 2003, at 6:59 pm, Gautam Mukunda wrote:
> >
> > > --- The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >  Lilly lost most of its Prozac market share in
> >  _weeks_
> > >>
> > >> Most likely because of price.  You can't tell me
> > >> that a company given a
> > >> 17 year monopoly can't make a drug just as cheaply
> > >> as a newcomer.
> > >
> > > It can.  But it can't make them _any cheaper_ than a
> > > newcomer could.  There are hundreds of generic
> > > manufacturers.  So Lilly could get, say, one half of
> > > one percent of the market with its new drug.  When it
> > > spend _$1BB_ to get that drug to market.
> > >
> > > Even worse from a drug company's perspective,
> > > pharmaceuticals are an almost classic Ec. 101 product.
> > >  Very low barriers to entry, and drugs made by
> > > different companies are indistinguishable.  So what
> > > happens?  The product will be sold very near to the
> > > marginal cost of production.  In the case of drugs,
> > > the MC of production is _extremely_ low.  And, in
> > > fact, generic manufacturers are far less profitable
> > > than the creators of new drugs.
> > >> So your saying almost the entire cost of making a
> > >> drug is the FDA
> > >> approval process w/ clinical trial?  Sound like
> > >> something the government
> > >> should be funding to me.
> > >
> > > Yes, this is well known.  The _second pill_ costs a
> > > few cents.  The first pill costs a billion dollars.
> >
> > I don't know much about economics so feel free to educate me, but
> > isn't a big chunk of the wealth of 'Western Industrialized' countries
> > (USA, Europe, Japan) actually IP ? Levis, Nike, Coke, Raybans is all
> > stuff that costs very little to make (and is made in countries with
> > cheap labour if possible) but has a high value because of IP. 'Fakes'
> > are illegal, even if those 'fakes' came out the back door of the same
> > factory that makes the 'real' product.
>
> They're generally NOT illegal over here, and indeed companies are
> allways getting fined for stamping down on "grey market imports".
>
> > A Sony TV or Walkman has a premium price because it was designed in
> > Japan and has the brand name even though it may be built in Mexico or
> > Korea.
>
> You're paying for reputation, quality and service as well. If the
> generic products are as good, they sell.
>
> I'd restrict IP to products with an true inivotive (sp) step, and
> only actual products rather than methods or ideas. The European
> patent model is a lot more like this than the American one, but has a
> lot of details I object to.

That statement shocks me.  In nine years of service on the patent review
committee for a major corporation, I never ever heard of that difference.
Virtually everything we submitted for patents was submitted in Europe as
well as the US.  If it were true, then it would be trival to go around
virtually every patent.

Dan M.



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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[John D. Giorgis]

At 10:56 AM 11/5/2003 -0600 The Fool wrote:
>Good.  Competition is always good, no matter what you say.  

Can I quote you on that? 

JDG
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   "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, 
   it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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RE: feel a draft coming on?

[Miller, Jeffrey]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of David Hobby
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 06:10 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: feel a draft coming on?
> 
> 
> "Miller, Jeffrey" wrote:
> ...
> > >
> > > <>
> > 
> > Hmm.. maybe I'll try to get a spot on the local draft 
> board, just in 
> > case...
> > 
> 
>   I was considering it too.  But my guess is that American 
> politicians know that an actual wartime draft would be political 
> suicide. 

Well, I actually went ahead and applied to fill a vacancy.  Lets see if they actually 
send me the information packet.

-j-
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National Men Make Dinner Day!

[William T Goodall]

In case anyone had forgotten :)

http://www.menmakedinnerday.com/orgin.htm

"Did you know that there are men in thousands of households who NEVER 
make dinner?

Unbelievable but true!

Sure, maybe these guys help a lot with household chores, but when it 
comes to dinner-time, they just wait to be called to the table and 
start digging right in!

Now , as the year-round cook in the household, maybe you have tried to 
get your man to cook the occasional dinner. But, after being bombarded 
with questions like:

"What's a spatula?", "Why do you call it 'sauté' when it's exactly like 
'frying'?", and "Why does a chafing dish sound like something that'll 
hurt?"

you give in and make dinner after all because it just seems so much 
easier.

This scenario is the inspiration behind "National Men Make Dinner Day". 
Officially it is 'celebrated' on the

First Thursday of every November.

One guaranteed meal cooked by the man of the house one day of the year.

Now, there are hundreds-thousands-perhaps millions of men who make 
dinner for their partners and their families on a regular basis. If 
this describes the scenario in your household, enjoy your artichoke 
hearts in radicchio cups, curried bisque and brandied beef tenderloin 
or whatever it is 'your man' creates for you.

For the rest of us, something to look forward to:



"National Men Make Dinner Day""

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
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RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Miller, Jeffrey]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Nunn
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 08:22 PM
> To: Brin Mail List
> Subject: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> Saw this tonight and I have to say that I am disappointed.

That's been the general impression I've gotten around here.

> It was worth seeing to tie up some loose ends, but definitely 
> not worth leaving work a few hours early for and standing in 
> line at the theater.

So what movies are coming out that you would be willing to wait for?

I've managed to blow off movies recently.  I saw Mystic River (thumbs up, with the 
caveat that its sometimes a bit clumsy emotionally) and Kill Bill (I hated it so much 
that even if Tarantino offered me my $9 back I wouldn't take it, just because I'd have 
to acknowledge his existence) but missed Winged Migration, Lost in Translation, 
Luther, and a couple others I was thinking would be decent.  I also missed the new 
release of Alien, much to my chagrin, but just picked up the new(er) DVD releases of 
Casablanca and Ginger Snaps.

-j-
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Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[John D. Giorgis]

At 08:42 AM 11/5/2003 -0800 Gautam Mukunda wrote:
>The core reason that American drug prices are so high
>is free riding by the Europeans, who pay very low
>prices for pharmaceuticals but get the benefit of
>American and Japanese consumers paying for all the
>R&D. 

Of course, it is also worth noting that pharmaceuticals is one of the if
not most profitable business sectors in the entire economy, if not *the*
most profitable...

JDG
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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gary Nunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Brin Mail List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:21 PM
Subject: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers


>
> Saw this tonight and I have to say that I am disappointed. It was just
> "ok".

I didn't like it nearly as well as you did. ;-)

My son and I saw it together and we were both disappointed.  He liked all
the films better than I did, and rated them A+, B+, C.  I rated them A, B,
D.


semi-spoiler follows.  If you don't want to know anything at all, even in
general terms, stop here.  But, plot details will not be given.












The battle for Zion was a real yawn.  It reminded me of Independence day.
Its as if the humans were required to be as vulnerable as possible in
battling the machines. ;-)

The emotional death scene reminded me of the song "Teen Angelyou know
the one where she dies because she goes back to the car to get his ring"

Finally, it seems that everyone thought that if the dialog was spoken
slowly enough, no one would remember how bad it was.

Dan M.


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Breaking wind . . . um, news from the world of science

[Ronn!Blankenship]

<>

Fish farting may not just be hot air

00:01 05 November 03

NewScientist.com news service

Biologists have linked a mysterious, underwater farting sound to bubbles 
coming out of a herring's anus. No fish had been known to emit sound from 
its anus nor to be capable of producing such a high-pitched noise.

"It sounds just like a high-pitched raspberry," says Ben Wilson of the 
University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada (Listen here, .wav 
file). Wilson and his colleagues cannot be sure why herring make this 
sound, but initial research suggests that it might explain the puzzle of 
how shoals keep together after dark.

"Surprising and interesting" is how aquatic acoustic specialist Dennis 
Higgs, of the University of Windsor in Ontario, describes the discovery. It 
is the first case of a fish potentially using high frequency for 
communication, he believes.

Arthur Popper, an aquatic bio-acoustic specialist at the University of 
Maryland, US, is also intrigued. "I'd not have thought of it, but fish do 
very strange and diverse things," he says

Grunts and buzzes

Fish are known to call out to potential mates with low "grunts and buzzes", 
produced by wobbling a balloon of air called the swim bladder located in 
the abdomen. The swim bladder inflates and deflates to adjust the fish's 
buoyancy.

The biologists initially assumed that the swim bladder was also producing 
the high-pitched sound they had detected. But then they noticed that a 
stream of bubbles expelled from the fish's anus corresponded exactly with 
the timing of the noise. So a more likely cause was air escaping from the 
swim bladder through the anus.

It was at this point that the team named the noise Fast Repetitive Tick 
(FRT). But Wilson points that, unlike a human fart, the sounds are probably 
not caused by digestive gases because the number of sounds does not change 
when the fish are fed.

The researchers also tested whether the fish were farting from fear, 
perhaps to sound an alarm. But when they exposed fish to a shark scent, 
there was again no change in the number of FRTs.

Night waves

Finally, three observations persuaded the researchers that the FRT is most 
likely produced for communication. Firstly, when more herring are in a 
tank, the researchers record more FRTs per fish.

Secondly, the herring are only noisy after dark, indicating that the sounds 
might allow the fish to locate one another when they cannot be seen. 
Thirdly, the biologists know that herrings can hear sounds of this 
frequency, while most fish cannot. This would allow them to communicate by 
FRT without alerting predators to their presence.

Wilson emphasises that at present this idea is just a theory. But the 
discovery is still useful, he says. Herring might be tracked by their FRTs, 
in the same way that whales and dolphins are monitored by their 
high-pitched squeals. Fishermen might even exploit this to locate shoals.

There may even be a conservation issue. Some experts believe 
human-generated sounds can damage underwater mammals. Now it seems 
underwater noise might disrupt fish too.

Journal reference: Biology Letters (DOI: 10.1098/rsbl.2003.0107)

Celeste Biever

 © Copyright Reed Business Information Ltd.



No Gas Shortage Maru

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Web Browser Question

[John D. Giorgis]

Some websites have a feature that causes the web browser or some other
window to jump to the top of the screen when it finishes loading.  This is,
of course, highly annoying for multi-taskers like myself.Does anybody
know of a way to turn this feature off?

JDG
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   it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Chad Cooper]

Is it worth seeing in an IMAX theater? I have to drive 3 hours to see it in
one (Seattle).


> -Original Message-
> From: Gary Nunn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:22 PM
> To: Brin Mail List
> Subject: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> Saw this tonight and I have to say that I am disappointed. It 
> was just "ok". It didn't have the punch and impact of the 
> first Matrix and some of the scenes were waayy 
> too long.  At the end of the movie, I was asking the question 
> "is this all? You have got to be kidding". As Keanu said in 
> an interview, they were satisfied that they told the story. 
> The ending left me much less than satisfied.
> 
> The reaction of the audience ranged from "You've got to be 
> kidding" to "awesome". The reaction seemed to be at either 
> extreme, with very little in between.
> 
> It was worth seeing to tie up some loose ends, but definitely 
> not worth leaving work a few hours early for and standing in 
> line at the theater.
> 
> 
> Gary
> 
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> 

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Breaking wind . . . um, news from the world of science

[Ronn!Blankenship]

URL for .wav file (130 KB):

<>

Pull A Herring's Finger Maru

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Re: WARNING(virus check bypassed): Re: new wonder drug scours arteries clean

[Julia Thompson]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:

> At 04:31 PM 11/5/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
> 
> 
> >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ass flash from Erik!
> > >
> > > Butt in from Rob!
> >
> >What, are we approaching a full moon?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, yes.
> 
> With a total eclipse.  Saturday night.

Cool.  It would be nice if it weren't probably going to be cloudy here.  
And it's not as if I weren't likely to be awake for some of it 
*anyway*

Julia

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Re: Web Browser Question

[The Fool]

> From: John D. Giorgis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> Some websites have a feature that causes the web browser or some other
> window to jump to the top of the screen when it finishes loading.  This
is,
> of course, highly annoying for multi-taskers like myself.Does
anybody
> know of a way to turn this feature off?

Disable javascript, activeX controls and active scripting.
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Re: Saturday's Lunar Eclipse, was new wonder drug scours arteries clean, was "Why don't you people change the subject line once in a while?!"

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 11:18 AM 11/6/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:


On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:

> At 04:31 PM 11/5/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
>
>
> >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ass flash from Erik!
> > >
> > > Butt in from Rob!
> >
> >What, are we approaching a full moon?
>
>
>
> Actually, yes.
>
> With a total eclipse.  Saturday night.
Cool.  It would be nice if it weren't probably going to be cloudy here.
And it's not as if I weren't likely to be awake for some of it
*anyway*


As the penumbral phase starts at 4:15 pm CST, the partial phase about 5:30, 
and totality lasts from 7:06 to 7:31, you might be awake for much of it, 
assuming the smaller members of the family have not worn you out.



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Chad Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers


> Is it worth seeing in an IMAX theater? I have to drive 3 hours to see it
in
> one (Seattle).

IMHO, no.  The visuals are nothing to write home about.  I'd say that the
gee wiz factor in the specials is almost an order of magnitude below
Reloaded.

Dan M.


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Re: Republican Browncoats now censoring public TV

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 06:24 AM 11/6/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:

Acording to bartcop:

1192

<>

"
Some of us are old enough to remember Von Reagan's two faces and his
harpy shrew of a wife.
Reagan's attitude towards gays was, "Fuck 'em, they're faggots." I was
there. I f-ing remember.


So when and where did President Reagan say those exact words?



-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 05:49 AM 11/6/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
VATICAN CITY—As Pope John Paul II enters his 26th year as pontiff, the
world is stopping to reflect on the legendary funnyman's career as one of
the most influential performers in modern history. Standing staunchly
against contraception and women's equality right through the turn of the
21st century, the pope and his quirky, deadpan comic persona still
entertain audiences around the world.  [snip]


What was the source of this?

-- Ronn!  :)

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Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3

[John D. Giorgis]

At 09:57 AM 10/28/2003 -0600 Dan Minette wrote:
>Well, that slaughter started well before the US existed, so it did come
>first.  But, I was thinking how racism is written into the Constitution.

Which also applies to the Native Americans, no?

JDG
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   "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, 
   it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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Poll in Iraq

[Dan Minette]

I've heard conservative commentators quote "reputable polling companies" as
indicating that the people of Iraq favor US involvement.  I've read that
Cheney quoted a Zogby poll as indicating this favorable response.  Yet,
when I searched for the poll, I got this result.

http://www.taemag.com/docLib/20030905_IraqpollFrequencies.pdf


The US will help Iraq over the next 5 years: 35%
The US will hurt Iraq over the next 5 years: 50%

I also saw results from the Christian Science Monitor that indicated a
strong swing (i.e. becoming a significant majority) towards the belief that
the US is an occupying, not a liberating force.

I'm not arguing against the viewpoint that the goal of the US is to get a
stable, representative government that can maintain security in as soon as
possible, and then step back and be no more than the quite bulkward against
inappropriate uses of force (as we did in Europe).  I fully agree that's
the goal in Iraq.  However, the perception in Iraq is a reality; the
reality I wish to adress with this post.

Dan M.


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RE: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs

[Miller, Jeffrey]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronn!Blankenship
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 09:41 AM
> To: Brin-L
> Subject: Re: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs
> 
> 
> At 05:49 AM 11/6/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
> >VATICAN CITY-As Pope John Paul II enters his 26th year as 
> pontiff, the 
> >world is stopping to reflect on the legendary funnyman's 
> career as one 
> >of the most influential performers in modern history. Standing 
> >staunchly against contraception and women's equality right 
> through the 
> >turn of the 21st century, the pope and his quirky, deadpan comic 
> >persona still entertain audiences around the world.  [snip]
> 
> 
> What was the source of this?

The Onion

-j-
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RE: Poll in Iraq

[Miller, Jeffrey]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Minette
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:06 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Poll in Iraq
> 
> 
> I've heard conservative commentators quote "reputable polling 
> companies" as indicating that the people of Iraq favor US 
> involvement.  I've read that Cheney quoted a Zogby poll as 
> indicating this favorable response.  Yet, when I searched for 
> the poll, I got this result.
> http://www.taemag.com/docLib/20030905_IraqpollFrequencies.pdf

..which doesn't list methodology or sample size.  Dang nabbit, I wanna know exactly 
/how/ they're conducting these polls, who the pollsters are, how they compensate for 
environmental social pressures, etc Are the interviewing people on the street? at a 
mosque? calling them on sat-phones?

-j-
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Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3


> At 09:57 AM 10/28/2003 -0600 Dan Minette wrote:
> >Well, that slaughter started well before the US existed, so it did come
> >first.  But, I was thinking how racism is written into the Constitution.
>
> Which also applies to the Native Americans, no?

Is there an explicit mention of Native Americans in the constitution?

Dan M.


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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Erik Reuter]

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 11:03:36AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote:

> My son and I saw it together and we were both disappointed.  He liked
> all the films better than I did, and rated them A+, B+, C.  I rated
> them A, B, D.

I rated the first one C and didn't see the second (I caught bits of it
on TV but it didn't hold my attention). I probably won't see #3.  All I
want to know is was a better explanation given for the stupid humans as
battery thing? I think you had a theory on them revealing that it was
actually computation, not energy?


-- 
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Re: Poll in Iraq

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: Poll in Iraq




> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Minette
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:06 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Poll in Iraq
>
>
>> I've heard conservative commentators quote "reputable polling
>> companies" as indicating that the people of Iraq favor US
> >involvement.  I've read that Cheney quoted a Zogby poll as
>> indicating this favorable response.  Yet, when I searched for
>> the poll, I got this result.
>> http://www.taemag.com/docLib/20030905_IraqpollFrequencies.pdf

>>..which doesn't list methodology or sample size.  Dang nabbit, I wanna
know exactly /how/ they're >conducting these polls, who the pollsters are,
how they compensate for environmental social >pressures, etc Are the
interviewing people on the street? at a mosque? calling them on sat-phones?

From

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=734 we have



Zogby International conducted interviews of 600 adults chosen at random
with consideration for ethnic background, gender, religion and social
class, throughout locations in Iraq. Interviews were conducted August 3-19,
2003 in Basra, Karkouk, Mousel and Al Ramadi.

The following ethnic groups - Arabs, Kurds, Turkaman, and Assyrians - were
interviewed, as well as the following religious groups - Shiaa, Sunni and
Christians. Interviewers traveled to public places (shopping areas and
coffee shops) chosen from different social neighborhoods. The survey's
margin of sampling error is +/- 4.1%.



I agree that there are difficulties with the poll.  The most important is
the tendency to tell people something polite.  So, there should be, if
anything, a pro-US policy bias in the sample.

Dan M.


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RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3

[Miller, Jeffrey]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Dan Minette
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 10:21 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John D. Giorgis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
> 
> 
> > At 09:57 AM 10/28/2003 -0600 Dan Minette wrote:
> > >Well, that slaughter started well before the US existed, so it did 
> > >come first.  But, I was thinking how racism is written into the 
> > >Constitution.
> >
> > Which also applies to the Native Americans, no?
> 
> Is there an explicit mention of Native Americans in the constitution?

Maybe in the Apocrypha

-j-
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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end


> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 11:03:36AM -0600, Dan Minette wrote:
>
> > My son and I saw it together and we were both disappointed.  He liked
> > all the films better than I did, and rated them A+, B+, C.  I rated
> > them A, B, D.
>
> I rated the first one C and didn't see the second (I caught bits of it
> on TV but it didn't hold my attention). I probably won't see #3.  All I
> want to know is was a better explanation given for the stupid humans as
> battery thing? I think you had a theory on them revealing that it was
> actually computation, not energy?

Actually, I wrote a backstory to make the storyline more conceivable when
the first Matrix movie came out.  I had no idea if the brothers were going
to worry about how stupid their original idea was or not. Its in the
archives...and I may even have it on another computer.

Dan M.


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Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3



> Is there an explicit mention of Native Americans in the constitution?

>Maybe in the Apocrypha

You mean it is in the origional constitution, but taken out by
revisionists. :-)

Dan M.


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Re: Marxism with religon inversed - Santorum style [L3]

[Michael Harney]

From: "Alberto Monteiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


>
> Michael Harney wrote:
> >
> >> No, evil implies [Heinlein's definition, or some paraphrase] causing
> >> unecessary pain to sentient beings.
> >
> > Hypothetical:
> >
> You are so literal. Are you sure you are not a mathematician? :-P

No, I'm not a mathematician, I'm a programmer (who are often just as
literal, if not moreso, than matematicians).  My formal degree is in
Biology, but I did minor in math. :-)

> > Malicious
> > intent means, quite litterally, wanting to do harm to another.  For an
act
> > to be evil it requires intent to do harm to another, ie: malicious
intent.
> >
> But you can also be Evil without any intention to do harm anyone.
> Imagine that you are the Overlord of a MegaCorporation, and this
> MegaCorpororation owns a Research Laboratory on drugs. Some
> of your employees are researching a vaccine that prevents Alzheimer:
> take it once and Alzheimer is avoided for another 10 years. Other
> employees are researching a drug that slows down the advance
> of Alzheimer by a factor of 10, but it requires a pill that must be
> taken once a day. You decide to decomission the vaccine and
> focus the research on the drug. This is Evil, even if you are chosing
> an outcome that benefits millions of people.

Actually, I think it can be argued that knowingly withholding something that
can reduce the pain of another can be considered intentional infliction of
pain unless you can argue that the person doesn't know that the people are
suffering by withholding a cure (which is a stretch).

> 
> I believe a cure of Cancer or AIDS hasn't been found because
> the Pharmaceutical industries prefer to create drugs that
> create a lifetime addiction by slowing down the effects of the
> diseases.

You might be right, but considering that the company that comes out with the
cure first stands to make a whole lot of money, and would essentially squash
their competitors, that seems unlikely.

> Capitalism is Evil.
> 

Capitalism isn't evil, greed is.

Michael Harney
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3

[Miller, Jeffrey]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Minette
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:03 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:44 PM
> Subject: RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
> 
> 
> 
> > Is there an explicit mention of Native Americans in the 
> constitution?
> 
> >Maybe in the Apocrypha
> 
> You mean it is in the origional constitution, but taken out 
> by revisionists. :-)

Exactly.  Once they realized that the Masonite Revolution wasn't going to take hold, 
they went back and scrubbed all the copies.  

-j-
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Re: Saturday's Lunar Eclipse, was new wonder drug scours arteries clean, was "Why don't you people change the subject line once in a while?!"

[Julia Thompson]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:

> At 11:18 AM 11/6/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
> 
> 
> >On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
> >
> > > At 04:31 PM 11/5/03 -0600, Julia Thompson wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Erik Reuter wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2003 at 09:57:09PM -0600, Robert Seeberger wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ass flash from Erik!
> > > > >
> > > > > Butt in from Rob!
> > > >
> > > >What, are we approaching a full moon?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually, yes.
> > >
> > > With a total eclipse.  Saturday night.
> >
> >Cool.  It would be nice if it weren't probably going to be cloudy here.
> >And it's not as if I weren't likely to be awake for some of it
> >*anyway*
> 
> 
> 
> As the penumbral phase starts at 4:15 pm CST, the partial phase about 5:30, 
> and totality lasts from 7:06 to 7:31, you might be awake for much of it, 
> assuming the smaller members of the family have not worn you out.

If totality were around 3:30AM, I'd be awake for a chunk of it, believe 
me.

Julia

feeding babies between 3:20 and 4AM the past couple of nights

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Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3




> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Minette
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 11:03 AM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:44 PM
> Subject: RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: Raceism L3
>
>
>
> > Is there an explicit mention of Native Americans in the
> constitution?
>
> >Maybe in the Apocrypha
>
> You mean it is in the origional constitution, but taken out
> by revisionists. :-)

>Exactly.  Once they realized that the Masonite Revolution wasn't going to
take hold, they went >back and scrubbed all the copies.

And, if you vidiotaped the series "Scrubs" and reassembled it according to
"The Code" you would find a complete doumentary on this.

Dan M.


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Re: Marxism with religon inversed - Santorum style [L3]

[Michael Harney]

From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> > From: Michael Harney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >



> >
> > I'm sorry, but you have oversimplified the example to the point that
> you
> > can't see the trees through the forest (Yes, I meant it the way I typed
> it)
> > .  An intentional murder or harming of another *requires* malicious
> intent.
> > If you have intent to deliberately harm someone (regardless of
> > justification) that is the very definition of malicious intent.
> Malicious
> > intent means, quite litterally, wanting to do harm to another.  For an
> act
> > to be evil it requires intent to do harm to another, ie: malicious
> intent.
>
> So in other words the god of the bible is Evil because he intends to kill
> everyone who doesn't think the right way, and a very graphic and
> malicious way.
>
> QED

Why are you arguing this point with me?  I happen to agree that the Old
Testament depiction of God is of a petty, jealous, and possibly even an evil
deity.   You are talking to someone who had a parting with the Catholic
church for that, and other reasons.  Moreover, I already said that I think
Christian reconstructionists are misguided.  What point exactly is it that
you think you have proved by this?  Are you are arguing that "Their God is
evil therefore Christian Reconstructionists are evil"?  That, in my opinion,
would be an invalid conclusion.  The evil history of a religion does not
make it's current followers evil, only misdirected, and people are usually
quite easy to misdirect as David Blaine, Chris Angel, and so many other
illusionists have so elloquently illustrated.

Michael Harney - Who wants to change his first name because he doesn't like
the meaning of the name: "he who is as God".
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 10:05 AM 11/6/03 -0800, Miller, Jeffrey wrote:


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronn!Blankenship
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 09:41 AM
> To: Brin-L
> Subject: Re: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs
>
>
> At 05:49 AM 11/6/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
> >VATICAN CITY-As Pope John Paul II enters his 26th year as
> pontiff, the
> >world is stopping to reflect on the legendary funnyman's
> career as one
> >of the most influential performers in modern history. Standing
> >staunchly against contraception and women's equality right
> through the
> >turn of the 21st century, the pope and his quirky, deadpan comic
> >persona still entertain audiences around the world.  [snip]
>
>
> What was the source of this?
The Onion


'Twas my first guess, but I wanted to be sure.



-- Ronn!  :)

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OT - 250 odd fantasy/scifi books for sale

[Andrew Crystall]

Various books, mostly "slighly older", and a REAL mix.
Last time I sold on Ebay I got a few "why didn't you mention it here 
first" comments, so, I'm mentioning it here first

E-mail me *off-list* for the full list. And yes, I'm in the UK (for 
those of you concerned with things like postage)

Andy
Dawn Falcon

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RE: McNabb and Limbaugh Re: RACISM! L3

[Ronn!Blankenship]

At 11:19 AM 11/6/03 -0800, Miller, Jeffrey wrote:




Exactly.  Once they realized that the Masonite Revolution wasn't going to 
take hold, they went back and scrubbed all the copies.


So once the revolution failed, what did they decide to use for construction 
material?



-- Ronn!  :)

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RE: Web Browser Question

[Chad Cooper]

It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in broken pages,
which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a page
correctly.
Nerd From Hell

> -Original Message-
> From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 9:11 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Web Browser Question
> 
> 
> Some websites have a feature that causes the web browser or 
> some other window to jump to the top of the screen when it 
> finishes loading.  This is,
> of course, highly annoying for multi-taskers like myself.
> Does anybody
> know of a way to turn this feature off?
> 
> JDG
> ___
> John D. Giorgis   - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to 
> the world, 
>it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. 
> Bush 1/29/03 ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> 

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Re: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs

[The Fool]

From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

At 05:49 AM 11/6/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
>VATICAN CITY—As Pope John Paul II enters his 26th year as pontiff, the
>world is stopping to reflect on the legendary funnyman's career as one
of
>the most influential performers in modern history. Standing staunchly
>against contraception and women's equality right through the turn of the
>21st century, the pope and his quirky, deadpan comic persona still
>entertain audiences around the world.  [snip]


What was the source of this?



Onion.
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RE: Saturday's Lunar Eclipse, was new wonder drug scours arteries clean, was "Why don't you people change the subject line once in a while ?!"

[Chad Cooper]

> 
> 
> As the penumbral phase starts at 4:15 pm CST, the partial 
> phase about 5:30, 
> and totality lasts from 7:06 to 7:31, you might be awake for 
> much of it, 
> assuming the smaller members of the family have not worn you out.
> 
In Portland, it is only a partial, the moon is only at 4% above horizon, and
it is twilight as well. We won't see a red moon on that night.
Nerd From Hell


> 
> 
> -- Ronn!  :)
> 
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> 

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Re: Marxism with religon inversed - Santorum style [L3]

[The Fool]

> From: Michael Harney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> 
> From: "The Fool" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> > > From: Michael Harney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> > >
> > > I'm sorry, but you have oversimplified the example to the point
that
> > you
> > > can't see the trees through the forest (Yes, I meant it the way I
typed
> > it)
> > > .  An intentional murder or harming of another *requires* malicious
> > intent.
> > > If you have intent to deliberately harm someone (regardless of
> > > justification) that is the very definition of malicious intent.
> > Malicious
> > > intent means, quite litterally, wanting to do harm to another.  For
an
> > act
> > > to be evil it requires intent to do harm to another, ie: malicious
> > intent.
> >
> > So in other words the god of the bible is Evil because he intends to
kill
> > everyone who doesn't think the right way, and a very graphic and
> > malicious way.
> >
> > QED
> 
> Why are you arguing this point with me?  I happen to agree that the Old
> Testament depiction of God is of a petty, jealous, and possibly even an
evil
> deity.   You are talking to someone who had a parting with the Catholic
> church for that, and other reasons.  Moreover, I already said that I
think
> Christian reconstructionists are misguided.  What point exactly is it
that
> you think you have proved by this?  Are you are arguing that "Their God
is
> evil therefore Christian Reconstructionists are evil"?

No I was making separate statements.


> That, in my opinion,
> would be an invalid conclusion.  The evil history of a religion does
not
> make it's current followers evil, only misdirected, and people are
usually
> quite easy to misdirect as David Blaine, Chris Angel, and so many other
> illusionists have so elloquently illustrated.
> 
> Michael Harney - Who wants to change his first name because he doesn't
like
> the meaning of the name: "he who is as God".
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Go for it.  You fill out some paperwork, get a certified copy of your
birth certificate and file it with court, with a fee probably about $100.

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Re: Web Browser Question

[The Fool]

> From: Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
> Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in broken
pages,
> which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a page
> correctly.
> Nerd From Hell

Says you.  I never have any problems.
 
> > From: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > 
> > Some websites have a feature that causes the web browser or 
> > some other window to jump to the top of the screen when it 
> > finishes loading.  This is,
> > of course, highly annoying for multi-taskers like myself.
> > Does anybody
> > know of a way to turn this feature off?

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Re: Pope John Paul: 25 Years of Laughs

[aclipscomb]

Ronn wondered:

> At 05:49 AM 11/6/03 -0600, The Fool wrote:
> >VATICAN CITY?As Pope John Paul II enters his 26th year as 
> pontiff, the
> >world is stopping to reflect on the legendary funnyman's career 
> as one of
> >the most influential performers in modern history. Standing staunchly
> >against contraception and women's equality right through the turn 
> of the
> >21st century, the pope and his quirky, deadpan comic persona still
> >entertain audiences around the world.  [snip]
> 
> 
> What was the source of this?

It was in The Onion - www.theonion.com.  

Adam C. Lipscomb
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://aclipscomb.blogspot.com

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Re: Web Browser Question

[Andrew Crystall]

On 6 Nov 2003 at 14:59, The Fool wrote:

> > From: Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
> > Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in broken
> pages,
> > which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a page
> > correctly. Nerd From Hell
> 
> Says you.  I never have any problems.

I think it says a lot about how adventurous you are at visiting web 
pages.

Andy
Dawn Falcon

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Re: Poll in Iraq

[John D. Giorgis]

This conflicts with reporting in last week's issue of _The Economist_:

 A survey out this week revealed that, while most endorse democracy and
women's rights, many wonder whether democracy can work in Iraq. Most would
like some form of Islamic rule—and want the coalition forces out. But
three-quarters of Iraqis also think that in five years they will be better
off. 
___
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   "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, 
   it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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Re: Web Browser Question

[CJ Kucera]

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 12:11:13PM -0500, John D. Giorgis wrote:
> Some websites have a feature that causes the web browser or some other
> window to jump to the top of the screen when it finishes loading.  This is,
> of course, highly annoying for multi-taskers like myself.Does anybody
> know of a way to turn this feature off?

While this probably isn't quite the answer you're looking for, the
web browser Mozilla (and Firebird) has a really good popup blocking
feature which has, in the years I've used it, been perfect at blocking
the popups I don't want to see and allowing the ones I do (on my
bank's website, etc).  If you don't mind trying out a new browser,
I'd highly recommend it: http://mozilla.org/

-CJ

-- 
WOW: Kakistocracy|  "The ships hung in the sky in much the same
apocalyptech.com/wow |way that bricks don't." - Douglas Adams,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | _The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy_
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RE: Web Browser Question

[Chad Cooper]

> 
> Says you.  I never have any problems.
>  
I lose perspective since I work with corporate web-based applications that
require these things turned on.
For running many corporate apps, it is a requirement.

Chad

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Re: Web Browser Question

[The Fool]

> From: Andrew Crystall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> On 6 Nov 2003 at 14:59, The Fool wrote:
> 
> > > From: Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > 
> > > It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
> > > Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in broken
> > pages,
> > > which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a page
> > > correctly. Nerd From Hell
> > 
> > Says you.  I never have any problems.
> 
> I think it says a lot about how adventurous you are at visiting web 
> pages.

God forbid that I ever have ninety separate IE browser sesions open at
the same time.

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Re: Web Browser Question

[Jon Gabriel]

From: "Andrew Crystall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Web Browser Question
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:22:27 -
On 6 Nov 2003 at 14:59, The Fool wrote:

> > From: Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
> > Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in broken
> pages,
> > which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a page
> > correctly. Nerd From Hell
>
> Says you.  I never have any problems.
I think it says a lot about how adventurous you are at visiting web
pages.
It's sort of a fascinating look into The Fool's psyche, though, isn't it? 
Even that small thing is taken to an extreme. :)

Jon

Le Blog:  http://zarq.livejournal.com

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Re: Web Browser Question

[The Fool]

> From: Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > 
> > Says you.  I never have any problems.
> >  

> I lose perspective since I work with corporate web-based applications
that
> require these things turned on.
> For running many corporate apps, it is a requirement.

Isn't that why internet explorer has 'zones'?
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Re: Web Browser Question

[Reggie Bautista]

Chad Cooper wrote:
> It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
> Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in broken
pages,
> which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a page
> correctly.
> Nerd From Hell
The Fool replied:
Says you.  I never have any problems.
The Fool, what browser do you use?  IE?  Netscape?  Opera?

JDG, you might want to consider using the Opera browser.  Popup windows
still come up, but they usually pop under instead of over the window you
were originally in.  Opera also renders pages more quickly than IE or
Netscape (not sure how it compares to other browsers) and has some
other nifty features.
It's available for a free download at http://www.opera.com/
The free version has banner ads in the bar at the top that has all the
browser buttons.  There is also a pay version available that gets rid of
those ads.
Reggie Bautista

_
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https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)

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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Erik Reuter]

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 01:02:18PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote:
> 
> From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> > All I want to know is was a better explanation given for the stupid
> > humans as battery thing?
>
> Actually, I wrote a backstory to make the storyline more conceivable
> when the first Matrix movie came out.  I had no idea if the brothers
> were going to worry about how stupid their original idea was or
> not. Its in the archives...and I may even have it on another computer.

Is that a no?


-- 
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Re: Continuing Education

[Reggie Bautista]

Talking about Yes, William T Goodall asked:
They did good stuff too?
Quite a bit of it.  Many musicians consider them one of the best bands of
the 1970s.
As a matter of fact (and I'm not saying whether this is a good thing or a
bad thing), there would have been no Duran Duran without Yes.  There
was an interview sometime in the middle 1980s where some of the
members of Duran Duran said that their musical goal was to be as unlike
Yes as possible. :-)
Reggie Bautista

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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end


> On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 01:02:18PM -0600, Dan Minette wrote:
> > 
> > From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > > All I want to know is was a better explanation given for the stupid
> > > humans as battery thing?
> >
> > Actually, I wrote a backstory to make the storyline more conceivable
> > when the first Matrix movie came out.  I had no idea if the brothers
> > were going to worry about how stupid their original idea was or
> > not. Its in the archives...and I may even have it on another computer.
> 
> Is that a no?

Sorry, its a no.  That was ignored through the whole movie.

Dan M. 

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Re: Country music evil?

[Reggie Bautista]

The Fool wrote:
In darkness they were born, seethed in vileness, unleashed they destroy
all that good and pure, corruption and desecration emanating from them,
they twist and defile all that comes before them as their pervasive evil
seeps into the depraved hearts of men.
The White Stripes?

Reggie Bautista
Not A Fan Maru
_
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on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!  
http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio

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Re: Country music evil?

[Reggie Bautista]

William T Goodall wrote:
Each country has some aberrant form of 'music' that the rest of the world 
finds easy to ignore. The French have that wailing women and accordions 
stuff, the Germans that oom pa pa and lederhosen gig, and the Americans - 
Country Music.
Actually, Country Music is quite big in Germany.  I don't really get why,
but it is.
Reggie Bautista
Weirdness Maru
_
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playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! 
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Re: Web Browser Question

[Andrew Crystall]

On 6 Nov 2003 at 16:41, Reggie Bautista wrote:

> Chad Cooper wrote:
> > > It's a form of popup. You can try using a popup preventer.
> > > Turing off active x, javascript and the like only results in
> > > broken
> >pages,
> > > which can be annoying, if you have to change settings to see a
> > > page correctly. Nerd From Hell
> 
> The Fool replied:
> >Says you.  I never have any problems.
> 
> The Fool, what browser do you use?  IE?  Netscape?  Opera?
> 
> JDG, you might want to consider using the Opera browser.  Popup
> windows still come up, but they usually pop under instead of over the

Um. People...
You didn't read what he said.

He's complaining about perfectly legitimate websites which, when they 
finish loading, set themselves as the active window. That IS 
annoying, but hardly the "pop ups" you're thinking of.

Andy
Dawn Falcon

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Re: Country music evil?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:13 PM 11/6/2003 -0600, you wrote:
William T Goodall wrote:
Each country has some aberrant form of 'music' that the rest of the world 
finds easy to ignore. The French have that wailing women and accordions 
stuff, the Germans that oom pa pa and lederhosen gig, and the Americans - 
Country Music.
Actually, Country Music is quite big in Germany.  I don't really get why,
but it is.
Reggie Bautista
Weirdness Maru
Couldn't have anything to do with racism, could it?

Not entirely joking.

Kevin T. - VRWC
I did like Charlie Pride
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RE: Country music evil?

[Horn, John]

> From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> But he didn't write that song. Don Von Tress did.

Who else here thinks it's scary that he knew that?



 - jmh
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RE: Country music evil?

[Reggie Bautista]

Kevin Tarr wrote:
> But he didn't write that song. Don Von Tress did.


jmh replied:
Who else here thinks it's scary that he knew that?






Reggie Bautista
No Value Added Maru
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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Alberto Monteiro]

Erik Reuter wrote:
>
> I think you had a theory on them revealing that it was
> actually computation, not energy?
>
This is the plot of an Enterprise Season 2 Episode: sentient
beings are kidnapped and their brains are used as computer
chips. Come to think of it, this is the plot of Spock's Brain.

Yuck.

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Alberto Monteiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Matrix Revolutions - semi-spoiler seperated at end


>
> Erik Reuter wrote:
> >
> > I think you had a theory on them revealing that it was
> > actually computation, not energy?
> >
> This is the plot of an Enterprise Season 2 Episode: sentient
> beings are kidnapped and their brains are used as computer
> chips. Come to think of it, this is the plot of Spock's Brain.
>
> Yuck.
>

And that's a step up from the Matrix. :-)  Using humans as an energy
source

Dan M.


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Re: Country music evil?

[Alberto Monteiro]

William T Goodall wrote:
>
>> Each country has some aberrant form of 'music' that the rest of the world 
>> finds easy to ignore. The French have that wailing women and accordions 
>> stuff, the Germans that oom pa pa and lederhosen gig, and the Americans - 

>> Country Music.
>
Unfortunately, the USA has another evil thing that unfortunately is too much
frequent in MTV.br to be ignored: RAP :-/


[and our local versions of Country Music and RAP are also horrible]

Alberto Monteiro


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Re: Spooky lack of spam

[Julia Thompson]

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Julia Thompson wrote:

> I've been getting a lot of spam to a couple of my e-mail accounts.  I'd
> been tracking just how many spams a day they were getting.  Combined
> totals for the last 10 days have been at *least* 200 per day, with 401
> one day, averaging probably around 280-300 or so.
> 
> Today, I've had 3.
> 
> Not sure just why this is, but it's a little eerie.  And those 3 were
> all earlier today.  I haven't received a single piece of spam since 11
> this morning.
> 
> I'm just hoping that whatever it is isn't saving them all up to dump
> 1200 spams on me come Tuesday.

Figured it out.  There were old addresses being forwarded to the addresses
that were getting a lot of spam.  Turned out that the forwarding stopped.  
I'd been getting a total of maybe 10 legitimate e-mails from the forwarded
addresses each *month*, and the rest was spam.

So, stop the forwarding, kill the spam.  :)  I just hadn't realized how 
*much* of the spam was from the forwarded addresses.

Julia

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Re: Continuing Education

[William T Goodall]

On 6 Nov 2003, at 11:09 pm, Reggie Bautista wrote:

Talking about Yes, William T Goodall asked:
They did good stuff too?
Quite a bit of it.  Many musicians consider them one of the best bands 
of
the 1970s.
Early 70's - Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, then AC/DC, and at the end of 
the decade, Motorhead! Stiff competition :)

As a matter of fact (and I'm not saying whether this is a good thing 
or a
bad thing), there would have been no Duran Duran without Yes.
No Duran Duran would have been nice :)

  There
was an interview sometime in the middle 1980s where some of the
members of Duran Duran said that their musical goal was to be as unlike
Yes as possible. :-)
I remember the mid 80's as a definite musical low-point.

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my 
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my 
telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup

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RE: Web Browser Question

[ChadCooper]

> 
> Um. People...
> You didn't read what he said.
> 
> He's complaining about perfectly legitimate websites which, when they 
> finish loading, set themselves as the active window. That IS 
> annoying, but hardly the "pop ups" you're thinking of.

Hey wait a minute...
I said it was a form of popup. It is a more recent feature of popups, where
the popped up windows actually goes to the back, so it does not interfere
with the parent window. The result is people are more likely to keep the
popup up, unfocused. The way to do this is to bring the parent browser
instance to the front, and when you are done with that window and close it,
you have a residual popup left.

I suppose that the definition of popup is subject to interpetation...
 


> 
> Andy
> Dawn Falcon
> 
> ___
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> 

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Re: Web Browser Question

[Erik Reuter]

On Thu, Nov 06, 2003 at 11:31:15PM -, Andrew Crystall wrote:

> He's complaining about perfectly legitimate websites which, when they
> finish loading, set themselves as the active window. That IS annoying,
> but hardly the "pop ups" you're thinking of.

Nevertheless, the person who suggested the Mozilla browser,
http://mozilla.org/ , had the solution. Just go to Tools/Preferences and
then select Advanced and uncheck "[Allow scripts to:] Raise or lower
windows".

(You may also want to uncheck move or resize windows, hide the status
bar, change the status bar text, etc.)

Mozilla is great, all hail Mozilla!


-- 
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Re: Continuing Education

[Kevin Tarr]

At 01:53 AM 11/7/2003 +, you wrote:

On 6 Nov 2003, at 11:09 pm, Reggie Bautista wrote:

Talking about Yes, William T Goodall asked:
They did good stuff too?
Quite a bit of it.  Many musicians consider them one of the best bands of
the 1970s.
Early 70's - Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, then AC/DC, and at the end of the 
decade, Motorhead! Stiff competition :)

As a matter of fact (and I'm not saying whether this is a good thing or a
bad thing), there would have been no Duran Duran without Yes.
No Duran Duran would have been nice :)

  There
was an interview sometime in the middle 1980s where some of the
members of Duran Duran said that their musical goal was to be as unlike
Yes as possible. :-)
I remember the mid 80's as a definite musical low-point.

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my 
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my 
telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup


Those who remember the eighties didn't live in the eighties? May not be as 
correct as the real quote, but fits me well.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Rock and roll all night,yada yada yada
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RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Gary Nunn]

In my humble opinion, hell no, but that is just me :-)


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Cooper
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:19 PM
> To: 'Killer Bs Discussion'
> Subject: RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers
> 
> 
> Is it worth seeing in an IMAX theater? I have to drive 3 
> hours to see it in one (Seattle).
 

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RE: Country music evil?

[Kevin Tarr]

At 05:50 PM 11/6/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> But he didn't write that song. Don Von Tress did.
Who else here thinks it's scary that he knew that?



 - jmh


I knew Julia's victim didn't write the song, and I got frustrated at the 
number of websites that said he did, so I doubled my effort to name the 
real songwritter.

Along those lines, just today someone sent me an e-mail about a songwriter 
that passed away last week. The mortician had a heck of a time, he'd put 
the corpses left foot into the coffin, then took it out, then put his left 
foot in..(trying to make it not as obvious).

Kevin T. - VRWC
Better than that other song
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Upcoming movies... was RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Gary Nunn]

Jeff asked...
> So what movies are coming out that you would be willing to wait for?

During the 22 minutes of previews before Matrix, one of the coming
movies looks very promising...

http://www.thedayaftertomorrow.com/

IMDB entry... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319262/

Plot Outline (from IMDB) : A climatologist tries to figure out a way to
save the world from abrupt global warming. He must get to his young son
in New York, which is being taken over by a new ice age. 

Starring Dennis Quaid and Sela Ward

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Re: National Men Make Dinner Day!

[Julia Thompson]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003, William T Goodall wrote:

> In case anyone had forgotten :)
> 
> http://www.menmakedinnerday.com/orgin.htm

Thanks for giving me a good excuse to make Dan cook.

Then again, he forgot about the vegetables, and all he really did was 
re-heat existing spaghetti sauce and boil pasta, but he'd made the sauce 
in the first place on Monday, so it counts for *something*, anyway.  :)

Julia

looks like we might finally head into soup season, looking forward to 
soup...

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Re: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Medievalbk]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 7:14:34 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> > Is it worth seeing in an IMAX theater? I have to drive 3 
>  > hours to see it in one (Seattle).

So the theater is only fifteen miles away?

(Been through there once.)

The Phoenix reviewer gave it a better write-up than what I've seen on the net.

I can wait for the $3 screen.

William Taylor
---
Currently working
on Hoon family
possesive
onomastics.
Their 'first' is not
our 'first.'
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Re: Continuing Education

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: Continuing Education


> Talking about Yes, William T Goodall asked:
> >They did good stuff too?
>
> Quite a bit of it.  Many musicians consider them one of the best bands of
> the 1970s.
>
> As a matter of fact (and I'm not saying whether this is a good thing or a
> bad thing), there would have been no Duran Duran without Yes.  There
> was an interview sometime in the middle 1980s where some of the
> members of Duran Duran said that their musical goal was to be as unlike
> Yes as possible. :-)
>
That was more or less the entire impetus of the "Punk Revolution".
The idea was that garage band quality music and the application of the most
basic rock tropes was somehow more desirable than compositional ability and
years of acquired skills.


xponent
Foolish Pursuits Maru
rob


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Re: Upcoming movies... was RE: Matrix Revolutions - no spoilers

[Medievalbk]

In a message dated 11/6/2003 7:29:32 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> http://www.thedayaftertomorrow.com/
>  
>  IMDB entry... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319262/
>  
>  Plot Outline (from IMDB) : A climatologist tries to figure out a way to
>  save the world from abrupt global warming. He must get to his young son
>  in New York, which is being taken over by a new ice age. 
>  
>  Starring Dennis Quaid and Sela Ward

Is this Dick? There's another Dick running about, I'm told.

William Taylor

If androids were
shepherds would the
electric sheep short out?
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Re: Continuing Education

[Jim Sharkey]

William T Goodall wrote:
>Early 70's - Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, then AC/DC, and at the end 
>of the decade, Motorhead! Stiff competition :)

>From a arrangement and composition standpoint, none of these bands are even close to 
>Yes' sheer virtuosity.  And I love Motorhead, but I don't know that it's exactly 
>"good" music.

Jim

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chat clients?

[Kevin Tarr]

This may have been on our subservient list; someone was asking about 
ICQs?  I cannot find the thread. Someone opinioned that there were programs 
that would search all services, not just AOLIM. I got ICQ, but it only 
seems to search itself and AOLIM. A friend is on MSN's IM (he's hiding from 
someone who uses AOL (not me)). Just wondering if anyone has other programs 
to try.

Off for a little vacation in ten hours. Five wonderful days in the hotspot 
of the nation, the finger lakes region of New York. 18 F saturday night, 
just great for sitting in a hot tub watching the eclipse.

Kevin T. - VRWC
Try and remain civil whilst I'm gone
(Five days offline...)
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Re: feel a draft coming on?

[David Hobby]

Dan Minette wrote:
> 
...
> > I was considering it too.  But my guess is that American
> > politicians know that an actual wartime draft would be political
> > suicide.  (And unlike some other countries (e.g. Germany) we don't
> > have it in our culture to accept a peacetime draft.  Maybe if
> > unemployment skyrocketed, we would eventually change our minds.)
> 
> We had it from the end of WWII to the end of Nam.  During 'Nam it wasn't
> peacetime, but before Nam really got going and after Korea, there was no
> big war going on.  I think you are right that it wouldn't pass now, but I
> think that's part of an unfortunate development...expecting other people's
> kids to fight wars that we decide are in the national interest.

Dan--
Correct.  But I meant "as in Germany".  The system is that
every able-bodied young male has to do something.  It can either be
around 15 months of military service, (regimentation, no combat,
serious drinking...) or a bit longer of alternative service 
(changing bedpans, say).  In economic terms, it's a labor tax.
That's a bit different from having a draft in place but not 
calling anyone up.
---David
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