RE: Restricting, not: culling the species

[Deborah Harrell]

Late - better than never, no?  Snippage throughout.  I *think* I've got who 
said what correct...

>On Tue, 5/20/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote: 
> > > From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
> > >Best-case scenario for population reduction is
> > >education and economic empowerment for women, as I
> > >think Pat pointed out.  
  
> > I don't really think the fact that the US has a ZPG
> > fertility rate of 2.1
> > while Europe and Japan are at 1.5 and 1.22,
> > respectively is the result of
> > Japanese women being the most liberated of the three
> > developed countries/ecconomic unions.  
 
>>Mmm, I didn't use 'liberated;' since the American
>>sense of the word has connotations of 'having sex with
>>whomever I please, whenever I please' The programs I
>>referred to (Heifer International and various
>>micro-loan systems) are about
>>reducing ignorance and poverty
>>Several studies, as I think others had mentioned, show
>>that educating girls/women leads to reduced birthrates.
 
> I agree that ecconomic development and the education of
> women have been
> correlated with lowering birth rates in underdeveloped
> countries.  It makes
> sense that areas where women cannont have ecconomic
> self-sufficiency have
> fertility rates far above ZPG...I was also thinking of liberated in
> the ecconomic
> sense, not sharing the stereotypical male understanding of
> a good sex life.

Well, Dan, doggonit, be more conscious of your word choices!  Don't give -er, 
confuse - me with ambiguous terms!  Can't you type in Gal3 or somesuch, instead 
of slippery Anglic?!
 
> Japanese culture is complex, but I'd argue that the
> requirement of
> many/most Japanese women to chose a career or a husband and
> family
> contributes a great deal to their very low fertility rate. 

Sounds logical.

> > Indeed, the EU and Japan are going to be in
> > very interesting positions in 20-50 years, with a
> > population that is highly
> > skewed towards the aged and is shrinking.  The EU's
> > population can be
> > expected to drop almost 30% every generation while
> > Japan's will drop over
> > 40%.  It is clear that, unless these
> > countries/regions show explosive
> > increases in their productivity, their GDP will
> > become stagnent and their
> > relative influence in the world will fall.  
 
>>Immigration will probably make up much of that.  
 
> Huh?  You know that that racial purity is still very
> important in Japan, right?  

Their xenophobia is legend.  And the source of many great movies, such as 
'Godzilla v. Monster X.'

>The immigration rate is so low that the CIA
> factbook simply says
> it's not available. There are 100k "guest
> workers" allowed from poorer
> countries and Americans and Europeans are allowed in low
> numbers, but
> immigration with a path to citizenship is not on the
> horizon, even though
> Japan has crossed the threshold of deaths>births.

Then they will have to adapt, or accept reduced world influence.
 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan
 
> Continental Europe is at it's limit concerning
> immigration of
> non-Europeans...because of the importance of keeping the
> ethnic identity of
> Europe as it is.  This contrasts with the US, which is
> clearly on its way
> to having non-Hispanic whites as a minority.

All I am concerned about is keeping Western culture, as it aspires to be 
[liberty and justice for all, etc.], alive; I don't care who comes in, *but* I 
think we ought to have adaptation classes for those unfamiliar with our ideal 
values (obviously we have plenty of stupid priorities, as one can see from 
watching a few hours of American TV ).  My teacher friends have some 
interesting and occasionally alarming stories to tell about culture clashes 
with various immigrant groups.  The value of education for all, gender equality 
under law, no special privileges for a very few (hey, I _did_ say ideals), etc. 
-- these need to be taught and accepted as the norm.  Of course, one ought to 
have pride in one's cultural roots, while being aware of its limitations.  One 
thing that is so important to ideal Western culture as it is now, is the 
willingness to question one's assumptions and beliefs, and to alter them if 
honest reflection shows them to be in
 error.  It takes us a while, but we _have_ demonstrated this...by George, one 
of the presumptive Presidential candidates is a half-black man; when you and I 
were children, there were still racially segregated schools and restrooms!!!  
 
>>But I believe that, as our Western lifestyle is not
>>currently sustainable, we need to reduce not merely
>>our numbers, but our 'human footprint.'  
 
> But, the US has significantly cut its consumption of most
> raw materials and
> has been flat (on average) in per capita CO2 output over
> the last 17 years or so.  

We're going to have to do better, if we want to lead the way.  And have a 
viable

Re: Evidence of gasoline guzzlers found on Jupiter

[Deborah Harrell]

> On Sat, 5/24/08, Ronn! Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Funny, you'd think they'd find hydrogen plentiful
> enough.  _They_ 
> must not be able to figure out how to store it, either . .
> 
> 

When did that comet smack into Jupiter?  5 years ago?  I think it was 
Goldman-sachs, or Shoemaker-levy...at any rate, it broke up and hit the planet 
in 4 or 5 places, IIRC. 

Debbi
Their Dinosaurs Have Gone Bye-Bye Maru


  
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Re: Evidence of gasoline guzzlers found on Jupiter

[Deborah Harrell]

Ah, seek and ye shall find:

http://seds.org/archive/sl9/sl9.html

On 1994 July 16-22, over twenty fragments of comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 collided 
with the planet Jupiter. The comet, discovered the previous year by astronomers 
Carolyn and Eugene Shoemaker and David Levy, was observed by astronomers at 
hundreds of observatories around the world as it crashed into Jupiter's 
southern hemisphere. This Web site is here to provide some of the images taken 
by amateur and professional astronomers before, during, and after the events, 
and to provide more information on this historic event.

Debbi
Dogpile Rocks Maru


  
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RE: Restricting, not: culling the species

[Pat Mathews]

Deborah Harrell says: "I think we ought to have adaptation classes for those 
unfamiliar with our ideal values."

I totally agree. Enrollees will include a good many people who think that 
granting habeas corpus to accesed enemies of the State means we will all be 
murdered in our beds; those who think torture is an excellent and moral means 
of getting information out of suspects; and those who think that judges holding 
us to the Bill of Rights (which their oath binds them to do) are "activist" and 
therefore out of line; and those who think the law and the Constitution are not 
binding on the nation's chief executive. 

http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/





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RE: Restricting, not: culling the species

[Pat Mathews]

One more answer to Debbi - this time about GreenTechnology - as I sit here in 
my midcentury box in the desert with the swamp cooler running - people used to 
build for the climate. There once was a huge body of knowledge about how to do 
so. No high tech required; just the good services of an historian and an 
architect working in tandem. And wouldn't I dearly love to have a house built 
to such standards today without tearnign mine down and redoing it totally! 
Alas; a midcentury box (though rather charming in many ways) was what I could 
afford. And those were designed around the presence - the ubiquity - of the a/c.


http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/






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RE: Restricting, not: culling the species

[Deborah Harrell]

> On Fri, 6/13/08, Pat Mathews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Deborah Harrell says: "I think we ought to have
>> adaptation classes for those unfamiliar with our ideal
>> values."
 
> I totally agree. Enrollees will include a good many people
> who think that granting habeas corpus to accesed enemies of
> the State means we will all be murdered in our beds; those
> who think torture is an excellent and moral means of
> getting information out of suspects; and those who think
> that judges holding us to the Bill of Rights (which their
> oath binds them to do) are "activist" and
> therefore out of line; and those who think the law and the
> Constitution are not binding on the nation's chief
> executive. 


*Some* people would fail that class with lumps of coal.


Debbi
Worst-in-Show Maru


  
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RE: Restricting, not: culling the species

[Deborah Harrell]

> On Fri, 6/13/08, Pat Mathews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> One more answer to Debbi - this time about GreenTechnology -
> as I sit here in my midcentury box in the desert with the
> swamp cooler running - people used to build for the
> climate. There once was a huge body of knowledge about how
> to do so. No high tech required; just the good services of
> an historian and an architect working in tandem. And
> wouldn't I dearly love to have a house built to such
> standards today without tearnign mine down and redoing it
> totally! Alas; a midcentury box (though rather charming in
> many ways) was what I could afford. And those were designed
> around the presence - the ubiquity - of the a/c.

If I _had_ a swamp cooler, there are many days in July and August when I'd use 
it...but sweat and a fan must suffice!

Debbi
Taosty Maru


  
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Re: Hello

[Jon Gabriel]

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 12:24 AM Thursday 6/12/2008, Dave Land wrote:
> >On Jun 11, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> >
> > > At 07:06 PM Wednesday 6/11/2008, William T Goodall wrote:
> > >
> > >> You just need to widen your scope a bit :-)
> > >
> > > Is that like when a female astronomer tells you that your telescope
> > > is too small?
> >
> >I get emails offering various products to "widen my scope" all the
> >time. Now I know what they meant.
>
>
>
> I went from 6" to 10" a few years ago and it made me happy.
>
>
> . . . ronn!  :)
>

Wide? :)

J

Perhaps I Don't Really Want To Know Maru
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Re: Evidence of gasoline guzzlers found on Jupiter

[Ronn! Blankenship]

At 05:04 PM Friday 6/13/2008, Deborah Harrell wrote:
>Ah, seek and ye shall find:
>
>http://seds.org/archive/sl9/sl9.html
>
>On 1994 July 16-22, over twenty fragments of comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 
>collided with the planet Jupiter. The comet, discovered the previous 
>year by astronomers Carolyn and Eugene Shoemaker and David Levy, was 
>observed by astronomers at hundreds of observatories around the 
>world as it crashed into Jupiter's southern hemisphere. This Web 
>site is here to provide some of the images taken by amateur and 
>professional astronomers before, during, and after the events, and 
>to provide more information on this historic event.



All I had at the time was 6" and it was enough.


. . . ronn!  :)



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Re: Hello

[David Hobby]

Jon Gabriel wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Ronn! Blankenship <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
>> I went from 6" to 10" a few years ago and it made me happy.
>>
>>
>> . . . ronn!  :)
>>
> 
> Wide? :)
> 
> J

Actually, the word is "aperture".

> Perhaps I Don't Really Want To Know Maru

And now even more so.  : )

---David
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