Re: America the Theocracy
Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just catching up on thousands of Brin-L messages that I was too busy to read at the time. I won't comment on most of them, but this one caught my attention. Debbi said: Hasn't it been established by careful, rational debate on Brin-L that all religion is Evil? I believe so. Last year sometime wasn't it? Nope. Not done. You may disagree, but proof positive (and negative) didn't happen. It probably wasn't clear enough, but I was being ironic with my comment which is third-level quoted here. (I was being somewhat more serious elsewhere in the thread!) grin And *I* was tongue-in-beaking myself, in that particular reply! (A serious response would have been more like 'I do not recall such evidence being presented, nor any concensus of the List being reached' etc. etc. etc.) Debbi Humour Across The Water, Water...Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
I'm just catching up on thousands of Brin-L messages that I was too busy to read at the time. I won't comment on most of them, but this one caught my attention. Debbi said: Hasn't it been established by careful, rational debate on Brin-L that all religion is Evil? I believe so. Last year sometime wasn't it? Nope. Not done. You may disagree, but proof positive (and negative) didn't happen. It probably wasn't clear enough, but I was being ironic with my comment which is third-level quoted here. (I was being somewhat more serious elsewhere in the thread!) Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
JDG said: Anyhow, at risk of feeding the troll, I would point out that this projected discovery of longevity probably wouldn't be possible without the discovery of genetics. JDG - And who first discovered that? For all practical purposes, genetics was discovered in 1900 by the botanists Hugo de Vries (at the University of Amsterdam), Carl Correns (at the Wilhem Institute for Biology in Berlin) and Erich von Tschermak (in Vienna). We all know of Gregor Mendel because scientists are very good at acknowledging pioneers, no matter how obscure they were. Which is not to say that Mendel wasn't an excellent scientist; and he was certainly supported in his studies by the Church, at least until he was promoted and had no time for science. I don't suppose anyone in positions of ecclesiastical power realised that he'd come up with one of the most important and potentially far-reaching ideas to come out of the whole history of the Church! (Although the scientists of the time didn't do much better: Darwin himself had done experiments very much along the lines of Mendel's and even discussed them with Wallace without realising that he'd found the missing piece of the evolutionary synthesis, which is especially sad as he knew that there had to be some kind of particulate inheritance or else evolution wouldn't work.) So that's not really a point for or against the Church. Rich, who's never been called a troll before. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6 Apr 2004, at 9:42 am, Richard Baker wrote: Hasn't it been established by careful, rational debate on Brin-L that all religion is Evil? I believe so. Last year sometime wasn't it? Nope. Not done. You may disagree, but proof positive (and negative) didn't happen. Debbi Heretic Lutheran Deist Maru :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
Nick, in hiding under the bed mode: A band of influential preachers is praying for the power to rule America. For those who disagree, they have a solution -- stoning. They're not influential. I know a hell of a lot more about them than anyone else here. I have seen Rousas Rushdoony's withered wattles up close (I was a kid at the time, what is he, 110?) I have seen Gary North's blotchy face explaining how the revolution of rising expectations must come to an end soon and Jesus would return soon after that. Still waiting for both. Christian Reconstructionists are out of touch with zero chance of affecting anything except the digestion of liberals who are addicted to pointing with alarm. And the children of parents who don't have the sense to keep their kids away from Christian Reconstructionists. Anybody who is alarmed by Christian Reconstructionists and is not alarmed by Islam is a pernicious dumbass. Or maybe you just hate America. I know, your hackles go up when somebody says that. But too bad. I'm starting to think my father-in-law saw something I've missed all these years. You do hate America. All evil is within our borders. Outside our borders, racism and genocidal intentions are cultural diversity. Mainstream Islam is stupider, meaner, more racist, more authoritarian, more genocidal than Christian Reconstructionism. Anyone care to debate that? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: Troll [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nick, in hiding under the bed mode: Nick wrote not the quoted text. A band of influential preachers is praying for the power to rule America. For those who disagree, they have a solution -- stoning. They're not influential. I know a hell of a lot more about them than anyone Sure they aren't. Tom Delay. Trent Lott. Bill Frist. Nobodies all of them. else here. I have seen Rousas Rushdoony's withered wattles up close (I was a kid at the time, what is he, 110?) Dead? I have seen Gary North's blotchy face explaining how the revolution of rising expectations must come to an end soon and Jesus would return soon after that. Still waiting for both. Christian Reconstructionists are out of touch with zero chance of affecting anything except the digestion of liberals who are addicted to pointing with alarm. And the children of parents who don't have the sense to keep their kids away from Christian Reconstructionists. Anybody who is alarmed by Christian Reconstructionists and is not alarmed by Islam is a pernicious dumbass. Or maybe you just hate America. I know, your hackles go up when somebody says that. But too bad. I'm starting to think my father-in-law saw something I've missed all these years. You do hate America. All evil is within our borders. Outside our borders, racism and genocidal intentions are cultural diversity. Stupid troll: Who on this list has been the most vocal in support of Marching on Riyadh, Tehran, and Damascus? The Fool? JDG? Or Dr. Brin? Mainstream Islam is stupider, meaner, more racist, more authoritarian, more genocidal than Christian Reconstructionism. Anyone care to debate that? Let do some numbers. Al Qaida has killed how many people, total? Lets be generous and say 10,000. How many did Saddam kill? Lets be conservative and say 300,000. How many has Vatican killed throughout the years? Lest be conservative and say tens-of-millions. How many did Hitler kill? 50 Million. How Many Stalin Kill? 60 Million. Chairman Mao? Pol-Pot? Milosivec? The Indian Thugs? The U.S. Government killed Millions of vietnam civilians during the Vietnam war. I don't think your theory holds water. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
The Fool said: How many has Vatican killed throughout the years? Most of the people that the Vatican will have killed in the end are alive today, because the Vatican has impeded the progress of science to a large degree (and, to be fair, so have the other branches of Christianity). Let's make the conservative assumption that the Christian authorities and the mindset they foster has delayed the advance of science by a century (and it may well be more!). Then everyone who dies in the century before science achieves human immortality (whether biological or non-biological) has died as a result of Christianity. Let's further suppose that the immortality breakthrough happens in 2100. Then everyone who dies between now and then is dying solely because of the past attitude of the Christian authorities: Christianity is responsible for *billions* of deaths in the near future. (And you can make a similar argument for everyone who dies of some disease in the century or whatever before it's cured too.) Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Let's further suppose that the immortality breakthrough happens in 2100. Then everyone who dies between now and then is dying solely because of the past attitude of the Christian authorities: Christianity is responsible for *billions* of deaths in the near future. (And you can make a similar argument for everyone who dies of some disease in the century or whatever before it's cured too.) So, I guess the fact that officially atheistic countries, such as the USSR have had a much better track record in science than countries with a large fraction of church going Christians, like the US supports your contention. I guess I have to admit that wondrous advances like Lysenko's genetics would never have taken place in the US. :-) Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I guess the fact that officially atheistic countries, such as the USSR have had a much better track record in science than countries with a large fraction of church going Christians, like the US supports your contention. I guess I have to admit that wondrous advances like Lysenko's genetics would never have taken place in the US. :-) Dan M. Or, for that matter, the so-often forgotten major contributions of the Catholic Church to scientific research. When one contrasts the record of Christian with non-Christian countries in scientific research, it strikes me as, ummm, unlikely at best that scientific research was all that hindered by Christianity over the long sweep of time. For occasional moments? Sure. The movement of the Renaissance to Northern Europe post-Galileo is probably not a coincidence. But overall? That's a much tougher case to make. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
- Original Message - From: Richard Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Dan said: So, I guess the fact that officially atheistic countries, such as the USSR have had a much better track record in science than countries with a large fraction of church going Christians, like the US supports your contention. Of course not: it just means that such countries will also be partly responsible for some of the deaths this century, as well as for many millions of deaths in the last century. So, how did the Catholic church delay the progress of science? The classic example that is used is, of course, Galileo, but a moderately careful review would show that it wasn't a theological problem at all. One of the two greatest doctors of the Church, Aquinas, explicitly wrote that scripture should not be used as a reference for natural philosophy. The problem with Galileo was that he was in strong opposition to Aristotle and Greek though in general, not to scriptures. The classicists were in power in Rome at the time. Galileo was, for a long time, good friends with the Pope. He was scorned for daring to argue against the greatest thinkers of all time, those of the Golden Age of Humanity. He made the apolitical move of mocking the pope in one of his works. His punishment for going against the political establishment of the time was house arrest. By the standards of the time, it was a light slap on the wrist. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Of course not: it just means that such countries will also be partly responsible for some of the deaths this century, as well as for many millions of deaths in the last century. So how much blame should go on the Greeks then? Although their methodologies were sound, some of their theories were off the wall. I wonder how far science was put back when people re-discovered this? Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Damon said: So how much blame should go on the Greeks then? Although their methodologies were sound, some of their theories were off the wall. I wonder how far science was put back when people re-discovered this? Not so far as it was when those pesky Visigoths and Vandals and Huns wrecked the Roman Empire, I imagine. Rich ROU Plenty Of Blame To Go Around ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Of course not: it just means that such countries will also be partly responsible for some of the deaths this century, as well as for many millions of deaths in the last century. So how much blame should go on the Greeks then? Although their methodologies were sound, some of their theories were off the wall. I wonder how far science was put back when people re-discovered this? Your point is mostly valid, but I think even you give the Greeks a bit too much credit. Physica has horrid methodology, for example. I think it has to do with the concept that a gentleman doesn't dirty his hands by doing; a gentleman thinks. Doing is for slaves. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Not so far as it was when those pesky Visigoths and Vandals and Huns wrecked the Roman Empire, I imagine. The Roman Empire was not exactly the bright and shining bastion of knowledge of the ancient world either (especially at the time the Germans and Asiatics were doing their thing). The Romans may have been good at engineering, but even they admit (through their writings) that the Greeks were the place to be for philosophy, science and the like... Damon, who will note that the Greek side of the empire persevered for another 1000 years after the western portion collapsed. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Your point is mostly valid, but I think even you give the Greeks a bit too much credit. Physica has horrid methodology, for example. I think it has to do with the concept that a gentleman doesn't dirty his hands by doing; a gentleman thinks. Doing is for slaves. Dan, I don't know if you recall the conversation we had on this some time ago (2 years? Maybe more?), but I have always been an opponent of Greek learning wrt science. During that thread, I commented that the destruction of the Library of Alexandria was probably a better thing to happen than to allow the whacky methodologies of the Greeks to influence scientific methodology more than it did. I'm not a big Classics supporter (even though I'm a self-admitted neo-stoic) and am critical of the idea of the Rennaisance being neccessarily better than the Middle Ages (technically it wasy, if you follow the line of continual progress; but the popular perception is that it was light years ahead of the MA, which I don't think is supportable). However, I also see that in order to get to the point we're at now, history *needed* to unfold the way it did; claiming that Catholicism, or Classical learning hindered scientific progress, for me, is a non-argument. You cannot possibly know how history would unfold by changing one element, especially when you're looking at a period of over 500 years. I think classical learning was important for influencing later scholars (such as during the MA) into developing the scientific methodologies we have today, and furthermore the Catholic church has always been a big supporter of classical learning, at least in the MA. So to say that these elements or organizations hindered scientific development ignores the tremendous intellectual contributions they ALSO made. I think this development is far more complex that it would seem on the surface. Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Rich yapped thus: Most of the people that the Vatican will have killed in the end are alive today... Christianity is responsible for *billions* of deaths in the near future. Cool. You must have loved Minority Report. Let's arrest the Pope. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:12 AM Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Your point is mostly valid, but I think even you give the Greeks a bit too much credit. Physica has horrid methodology, for example. I think it has to do with the concept that a gentleman doesn't dirty his hands by doing; a gentleman thinks. Doing is for slaves. Dan, I don't know if you recall the conversation we had on this some time ago (2 years? Maybe more?), but I have always been an opponent of Greek learning wrt science. I kinda do, but I admit that, at my age, I tend to get a bit fuzzy about who had what point in a debate with a number of participants. I hope you will forgive an old man's fading memory. During that thread, I commented that the destruction of the Library of Alexandria was probably a better thing to happen than to allow the whacky methodologies of the Greeks to influence scientific methodology more than it did. I'm not a big Classics supporter (even though I'm a self-admitted neo-stoic) and am critical of the idea of the Rennaisance being neccessarily better than the Middle Ages (technically it wasy, if you follow the line of continual progress; but the popular perception is that it was light years ahead of the MA, which I don't think is supportable). Ah, so your reference to methodology was to their advances in developement things like using universal principals (e.g. geometry) instead of doing everything on an ad hoc basis, advancing math, developing formal logic, etc. I have no problem with that. So to say that these elements or organizations hindered scientific development ignores the tremendous intellectual contributions they ALSO made. I think this development is far more complex that it would seem on the surface. I have no argument with your analysis, now that you have clarified it. My one addition is that we can see science developing from the merging of classical methodological logic with the craft of the middle ages. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
From: Fool Let do some numbers. Al Qaida has killed how many people, total? Lets be generous and say 10,000. How many did Saddam kill? Lets be conservative and say 300,000. How many has Vatican killed throughout the years? Lest be conservative and say tens-of-millions. If you're going to hold Christians accountable all through their history, then you have to do the same for Muslims, fool. And if you're going to be sensible, fool, you have to look at what people living today are doing. The notion that the current Pope (while a fool) is anywhere near morally equivalent to Sodamn Insane is asinine. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
At 01:42 AM 4/6/2004 -0700 Richard Baker wrote: Hasn't it been established by careful, rational debate on Brin-L that all religion is Evil? Rich At 03:59 AM 4/6/2004 -0700 Richard Baker wrote: Most of the people that the Vatican will have killed in the end are alive today, because the Vatican has impeded the progress of science to a large degree (and, to be fair, so have the other branches of Christianity). Let's make the conservative assumption that the Christian authorities and the mindset they foster has delayed the advance of science by a century (and it may well be more!). Then everyone who dies in the century before science achieves human immortality (whether biological or non-biological) has died as a result of Christianity. Let's further suppose that the immortality breakthrough happens in 2100. Then everyone who dies between now and then is dying solely because of the past attitude of the Christian authorities: Christianity is responsible for *billions* of deaths in the near future. (And you can make a similar argument for everyone who dies of some disease in the century or whatever before it's cured too.) Wasn't April Fool's a couple days ago? JDG - He can't *really* be serious, can he? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
At 07:29 AM 4/6/2004 -0700 Gautam Mukunda wrote: Or, for that matter, the so-often forgotten major contributions of the Catholic Church to scientific research. At some point, there is a fine line between stupidity and trolling. I am not sure where that line is, or if its been crossed in this case, but that line surely does exist Anyhow, at risk of feeding the troll, I would point out that this projected discovery of longevity probably wouldn't be possible without the discovery of genetics. JDG - And who first discovered that? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
JDG wrote: At 07:29 AM 4/6/2004 -0700 Gautam Mukunda wrote: Or, for that matter, the so-often forgotten major contributions of the Catholic Church to scientific research. At some point, there is a fine line between stupidity and trolling. I am not sure where that line is, or if its been crossed in this case, but that line surely does exist Anyhow, at risk of feeding the troll, I would point out that this projected discovery of longevity probably wouldn't be possible without the discovery of genetics. JDG - And who first discovered that? Was that a monk or something? Maybe a Catholic monk? Hm Julia but would someone else have come up with it later when the rest of the pieces were right in front of them? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
IAAMOAC? Re: America the Theocracy
Mike Lee wrote: Still talking to yourself? Oh. I can see how you might be confused. Let me explain: When someone's being a really egregious idiot, I don't take the time to identify them when I quote them. Actually, I dipped randomly into the ongoing thread, to get an idea of the discussion and the first thing I read is this. I must say that we've developed some awfully strange habits on this list. Anybody got some guidelines handy to slap some people with. Actually I feel that we should make a lot more guidelines. Pages worth of them. That way the bundle people can be zonked with is a lot thicker. Much nicer to hit people over the head with a nice large bundle of paper. Can somebody actually calculate the optimum energy transfer effect on impact with a head in relation to the bundled amount of guidelines we'd need to get some civilisation back into our most heated discussions? We'll assume the use of 80 gram paper perhaps? ;o) Sonja xROU: Press 'mark all as read' and skip to next thread in order to continue the mental journey back to the civilisation we left to follow this detour. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: IAAMOAC? Re: America the Theocracy
At 04:33 PM 4/4/04, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Mike Lee wrote: Still talking to yourself? Oh. I can see how you might be confused. Let me explain: When someone's being a really egregious idiot, I don't take the time to identify them when I quote them. Actually, I dipped randomly into the ongoing thread, to get an idea of the discussion and the first thing I read is this. I must say that we've developed some awfully strange habits on this list. Anybody got some guidelines handy to slap some people with. Actually I feel that we should make a lot more guidelines. Pages worth of them. That way the bundle people can be zonked with is a lot thicker. Much nicer to hit people over the head with a nice large bundle of paper. Can somebody actually calculate the optimum energy transfer effect on impact with a head in relation to the bundled amount of guidelines we'd need to get some civilisation back into our most heated discussions? We'll assume the use of 80 gram paper perhaps? ;o) Sonja xROU: Press 'mark all as read' and skip to next thread in order to continue the mental journey back to the civilisation we left to follow this detour. Hymn time: Let Us Oft Speak Kind Words (232) Text: Joseph L. Townsend Music: Ebenezer Beesley Let us oft speak kind words to each other At home or where'er we may be; Like the warblings of birds on the heather, The tones will be welcome and free. They'll gladden the heart that's repining, Give courage and hope from above, And where the dark clouds hide the shining, Let in the bright sunlight of love. Chorus Oh, the kind words we give shall in memory live And sunshine forever impart. Let us oft speak kind words to each other; Kind words are sweet tones of the heart. Like the sunbeams of morn on the mountains, The soul they awake to good cheer; Like the murmur of cool, pleasant fountains, They fall in sweet cadences near. Let's oft, then, in kindly toned voices, Our mutual friendship renew, Till heart meets with heart and rejoices In friendship that ever is true. [Chorus] -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:54:42 -0500 I'm getting really tired of people asking list managers to remove people. Would this be a good time to tell you to shove it? I'm getting really tired of people harassing people who disagree with them. Would this be a good time to to tell you to stop insulting and harassing people you disagree with? Yeah, I think this would be a good time... JD _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:56:07 +0100 On 2 Apr 2004, at 9:35 pm, John Doe wrote: From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? Aren't you the same person? No. I'm absolutely sure that I am not the same person as Mike Lee. But given how Mike reacts to people who disagree with him, Mike Lee and Erik Reuter might be one and the same person. JD _ Hotmail en Messenger on the move http://www.msn.nl/communicatie/smsdiensten/hotmailsmsv2/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: America the Theocracy Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:26:08 -0800 I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? How Islamic of you. Why don't you issue a fatwa against me while you're at it? Well, if you insist... evil grin BTW, my suggestion to remove you from the list cannot possibly be Islamic; there is nothing in the Koran about asking list admins to remove hatemongers from a mailing list. Salaam Aleikum JD _ Talk with your online friends with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: America the Theocracy Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:51:52 -0800 Still talking to yourself? Oh. I can see how you might be confused. Let me explain: When someone's being a really egregious idiot, I don't take the time to identify them when I quote them. Are you and Erik Reuter one and the same person? You certainly seem to be. Salaam Aleikum JD _ Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: John Doe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:55:13 +0200 But given how Mike reacts to people who disagree with him, Mike Lee and Erik Reuter might be one and the same person. Not a chance. Mike is entertaining(though sadly, disagreeable), and Erik is a bore. Besides, Erik is too proud to masquerade around as another 'John Doe'. -Travis _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs Discussion' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: America the Theocracy Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:33:12 -0800 This may clue some people in to my visceral hatred of Islam and my intimate and clear understanding of these fundamentalist assholes. The CRs intend to deny Baptists the vote, execute gays, witches, Mormons, Greenpeacers, and Democrats. Who cares? In America, they're going nowhere. In Islam, assholes like this run the place. ... If you're upset at CRs why the hell aren't you ballistic at the corpse mutilating Muslims? Every Muslim is more intolerant, stupid, bigoted and violent than any CR idiot. I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? JD _ Play online games with your friends with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:35:02PM +0200, John Doe wrote: I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? I'm getting really tired of people asking list managers to remove people. Would this be a good time to tell you to shove it? -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 10:35:02PM +0200, John Doe wrote: I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? I'm getting really tired of people asking list managers to remove people. Would this be a good time to tell you to shove it? Well, this is a bad time for me to read someone telling someone else to shove it, but that's my problem, not yours. :) Actually, given the magnitude of the problems I *do* have right now, it's pretty stupid for me to be posting right now anyway. Maybe it's stupid for me to be reading listmail, as well. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
On 2 Apr 2004, at 9:35 pm, John Doe wrote: From: Mike Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? Aren't you the same person? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Mac OS X is a rock-solid system that's beautifully designed. I much prefer it to Linux. - Bill Joy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? How Islamic of you. Why don't you issue a fatwa against me while you're at it? Mike Lee Islamic Moderate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
On 3 Apr 2004, at 2:26 am, Mike Lee wrote: I'm getting really fed up with Mike's endless hatemongering against Muslims here. Would this be a good time to ask the list admins to remove him? How Islamic of you. Why don't you issue a fatwa against me while you're at it? Still talking to yourself? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
At 11:33 PM 4/1/2004 -0800 Mike Lee wrote: If you're upset at CRs why the hell aren't you ballistic at the corpse mutilating Muslims? At risk of feeding the troll, I should point out that the muslim leadership of Fallujah have issued fatwas condemning the mutiliation of the corpses. ''Islam does not condone the mutilation of the bodies of the dead,'' the cleric said. ''Why do you want to bring destruction to our city? Why do you want to bring humiliation to the faithful? My brothers, wisdom is required here,'' said Nameq... This is a bad advertisement for everything we stand for, said Muhammad Khalifa, a spare-parts trader who closed his shop during the disturbance in a sign of disgust. We may hate Americans. We may hate them with all our hearts. But all men are creatures of God. JDG JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
Still talking to yourself? Oh. I can see how you might be confused. Let me explain: When someone's being a really egregious idiot, I don't take the time to identify them when I quote them. Mike Lee Islamic Moderate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
John D. Giorgis is heartened by the reaction of religious leaders in Fallujah: At risk of feeding the troll, I should point out that the muslim leadership of Fallujah have issued fatwas condemning the mutiliation of the corpses. ''Islam does not condone the mutilation of the bodies of the dead,'' the cleric said. Yeah, I bet they're getting pretty scared now with that cordon around them and the ominous quiet I'd expect more half-assed sucking up over the next few days. Too bad the marines won't be buying it. I'm assuming that you just forgot to quote the part where the cleric said that the killings were also wrong. And that he encouraged all his followers to cooperate with the authorities and the Americans in bringing the murderers to justice. You should post that so nobody gets the wrong impression. You know, though, it just occurred to me: maybe you didn't just forget to post the rest of the quote. Maybe you're wagging your tail for the mullahs based only on one of them saying we may be murderers and I'm glad we just got a dozen of you, but we do believe in proper infidel waste disposal. If so, that's pretty grotesque. If you really did go into group hug mode based only on the quotes you posted, that would make me guess that your middle initial stands for Dhimmi. Mike Lee Islamic Moderate ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few Excerpts. Read the whole thing, it's quite
long:
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/cover.html
America the theocracy
snipped rest
I couldn't access the article, but here is one I
could:
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/03/far04007.html
'On a Mission From God': The Religious Right and the
Emerging American Theocracy
[To skip some of the ranting, scroll down to 1) The
Council for National Policy and ff. Personally, I
think Howard Stern is a foul-mouthed schmuck, but if
adults want to pay to listen to him, that is their
right -- and removal of that right is a Bad Thing.]
The Council for National Policy -- Deemed by ABC News
as the most powerful conservative group you've never
heard of, the Council for National Policy, which was
co-founded by former Moral Majority head LaHaye
[co-author of the various Left Behind series], has
included John Ashcroft, Ed Meese, Ralph Reed, the
editor of The National Review, Pat Robertson, Jerry
Falwell, Grover Norquist and Oliver North among its
members...
The Christian Coalition -- On Dec. 24, 2001, the
Washington Post featured an article entitled
Religious Right Finds Its Center in Oval Office: Bush
Emerges as Movement's Leader After Robertson Leaves
Christian Coalition in which reporter Dana Milbank
explained exactly how significant the Supreme Court's
selection of George W. Bush was. For the first time
since religious conservatives became a modern
political movement, the president of the United States
has become the movement's de facto leader, Milbank
wrote...
Christian Reconstructionists -- Ever hear of Rousas
J. Rushdoony? Didn't think so. Before he died in 2001,
he was the leader of the Reconstructionist movement,
which, in a nutshell, seeks to toss out the U.S.
Constitution and turn the United States of America
into a theocracy.
Active in the GOP for quite some time, the movement's
greatest influence has been, according to a 1998
article in Reason, in helping change the terms of
discourse on the traditionalist right. Journalist
Walter Olson put it this way: One of their effects
has been to allow everyone else to feel moderate. To
wit: Almost any anti-abortion stance seems nuanced
when compared with Gary North's advocacy of public
execution not just for women who undergo abortions but
for those who advised them to do so. And with the
Rushdoony faction proposing the actual judicial murder
of gays, fewer blink at the position of a Gary Bauer
or a Janet Folger, who support laws exposing them to
mere imprisonment...
The article is much longer, and has multiple links to
the articles/sites it cites. To read about a Virginia
law that requires citizens to 'sleep in their
bedrooms' as opposed to other rooms {I am *not* making
this up}, and that House Majority Leader Tom Delay
had openly admitted he was on a mission from God to
promote a 'biblical worldview' in American politics
is to realize that some of those who 'support less
government intrusion in our lives' are either lying,
deluded, or have a radically different definition of
government intrusion.
Debbi
Don't Interfere With Dumping Toxic Waste Into
America's Waterways, But Keep Tabs On Where -And With
Whom- Citizens Are Sleeping Maru :/
__
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Re: America the Theocracy
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few Excerpts. Read the whole thing, it's quite
long:
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/cover.html
America the theocracy
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2004-03-25/cover.html
snipped rest
I couldn't access the article, but here is one I
could:
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/03/far04007.html
'On a Mission From God': The Religious Right and the
Emerging American Theocracy
[To skip some of the ranting, scroll down to 1) The
Council for National Policy and ff. Personally, I
think Howard Stern is a foul-mouthed schmuck, but if
adults want to pay to listen to him, that is their
right -- and removal of that right is a Bad Thing.]
The Council for National Policy -- Deemed by ABC News
as the most powerful conservative group you've never
heard of, the Council for National Policy, which was
co-founded by former Moral Majority head LaHaye
[co-author of the various Left Behind series], has
included John Ashcroft, Ed Meese, Ralph Reed, the
editor of The National Review, Pat Robertson, Jerry
Falwell, Grover Norquist and Oliver North among its
members...
The Christian Coalition -- On Dec. 24, 2001, the
Washington Post featured an article entitled
Religious Right Finds Its Center in Oval Office: Bush
Emerges as Movement's Leader After Robertson Leaves
Christian Coalition in which reporter Dana Milbank
explained exactly how significant the Supreme Court's
selection of George W. Bush was. For the first time
since religious conservatives became a modern
political movement, the president of the United States
has become the movement's de facto leader, Milbank
wrote...
Christian Reconstructionists -- Ever hear of Rousas
J. Rushdoony? Didn't think so. Before he died in 2001,
he was the leader of the Reconstructionist movement,
which, in a nutshell, seeks to toss out the U.S.
Constitution and turn the United States of America
into a theocracy.
Active in the GOP for quite some time, the movement's
greatest influence has been, according to a 1998
article in Reason, in helping change the terms of
discourse on the traditionalist right. Journalist
Walter Olson put it this way: One of their effects
has been to allow everyone else to feel moderate. To
wit: Almost any anti-abortion stance seems nuanced
when compared with Gary North's advocacy of public
execution not just for women who undergo abortions but
for those who advised them to do so. And with the
Rushdoony faction proposing the actual judicial murder
of gays, fewer blink at the position of a Gary Bauer
or a Janet Folger, who support laws exposing them to
mere imprisonment...
The article is much longer, and has multiple links to
the articles/sites it cites. To read about a Virginia
law that requires citizens to 'sleep in their
bedrooms' as opposed to other rooms {I am *not* making
this up}, and that House Majority Leader Tom Delay
had openly admitted he was on a mission from God to
promote a 'biblical worldview' in American politics
is to realize that some of those who 'support less
government intrusion in our lives' are either lying,
deluded, or have a radically different definition of
government intrusion.
Debbi
Don't Interfere With Dumping Toxic Waste Into
America's Waterways, But Keep Tabs On Where -And With
Whom- Citizens Are Sleeping Maru :/
I've posted about congressional CNP members before.
___
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Re: America the Theocracy
Religion is about crazy people blowing stuff up. They spout all their weird wack-brained nonsense about underwear or diets but at the end of the day they just want to kill you if you don't agree with them. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. - Bertrand Russell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
At 05:43 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: Religion is about crazy people blowing stuff up. They spout all their weird wack-brained nonsense about underwear or diets but at the end of the day they just want to kill you if you don't agree with them. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . You are repeating yourself . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:46:11PM -0600, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: You are repeating yourself . . . Whereas you almost never write anything worth repeating, or reading, for that matter... -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
On 2 Apr 2004, at 12:46 am, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:43 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: Religion is about crazy people blowing stuff up. They spout all their weird wack-brained nonsense about underwear or diets but at the end of the day they just want to kill you if you don't agree with them. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . You are repeating yourself . . . Repetition is a good way of teaching :) And since this lesson needs to be learned I will repeat myself as necessary. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
At 06:25 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: On 2 Apr 2004, at 12:46 am, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:43 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: Religion is about crazy people blowing stuff up. They spout all their weird wack-brained nonsense about underwear or diets but at the end of the day they just want to kill you if you don't agree with them. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . You are repeating yourself . . . Repetition is a good way of teaching :) And since this lesson needs to be learned I will repeat myself as necessary. As in If you repeat a lie often enough, eventually some people will come to believe it? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
At 06:18 PM 4/1/04, Erik Reuter wrote: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:46:11PM -0600, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: You are repeating yourself . . . Whereas you almost never write anything worth repeating, or reading, for that matter... The evidence suggests that you can't help yourself, though . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 06:25 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: On 2 Apr 2004, at 12:46 am, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:43 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: Religion is about crazy people blowing stuff up. They spout all their weird wack-brained nonsense about underwear or diets but at the end of the day they just want to kill you if you don't agree with them. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . You are repeating yourself . . . Repetition is a good way of teaching :) And since this lesson needs to be learned I will repeat myself as necessary. As in If you repeat a lie often enough, eventually some people will come to believe it? Like 'God Exists'. Or tax cuts for the rich improve the economy. Or Republicans are Fiscal conservatives. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 6:53 PM Subject: Re: America the Theocracy At 06:18 PM 4/1/04, Erik Reuter wrote: On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:46:11PM -0600, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: You are repeating yourself . . . Whereas you almost never write anything worth repeating, or reading, for that matter... The evidence suggests that you can't help yourself, though . . . I've had that feeling myself. xponent Under Surveillance Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:18:31 -0500 On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 05:46:11PM -0600, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: You are repeating yourself . . . Whereas you almost never write anything worth repeating, or reading, for that matter... You are repeating yourself... -Travis broken record Edmunds _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: America the Theocracy Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:52:45 -0600 At 06:25 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: On 2 Apr 2004, at 12:46 am, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:43 PM 4/1/04, William T Goodall wrote: Religion is about crazy people blowing stuff up. They spout all their weird wack-brained nonsense about underwear or diets but at the end of the day they just want to kill you if you don't agree with them. Religion is EVIL and must be extirpated . You are repeating yourself . . . Repetition is a good way of teaching :) And since this lesson needs to be learned I will repeat myself as necessary. As in If you repeat a lie often enough, eventually some people will come to believe it? shaking head Two extremes, no middle-ground. That's too bad... -Travis monkey in the middle Edmunds _ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-capage=byoa/premxAPID=1994DI=1034SU=http://hotmail.com/encaHL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: America the Theocracy
Deborah Harrell wrote:
The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A few Excerpts. Read the whole thing, it's quite
long:
http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/cover.html
America the theocracy
snipped rest
I couldn't access the article, but here is one I
could:
http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/03/far04007.html
'On a Mission From God': The Religious Right and the
Emerging American Theocracy
snippage
The article is much longer, and has multiple links to
the articles/sites it cites. To read about a Virginia
law that requires citizens to 'sleep in their
bedrooms' as opposed to other rooms {I am *not* making
this up},
I'm guessing that nobody who had a hand in creating *that* law ever had
newborn breastfed twins in the house.
When you have twin babies, sleeping arrangements can get a little
weird. The *important* thing is that people sleep.
Sheesh.
Julia
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: America the Theocracy
belief of a movement called Christian Reconstruction, and DeMar is its Tom Paine. Many followers accord him the status of transforming an arcane offshoot of Calvinism into a political dreadnought -- and of launching that theological warship at a speech 20 years ago. I was forced and literally bludgeoned into going to a Christian Reconstructionist school when I was a kid. I took economics classes from Gary North. I was bored into somnescence by Rousas Rushdoony. I even got into a physical fight once with Rousas' kid, who was my History teacher. What a little shit he was. I won the fight. I was 13. This may clue some people in to my visceral hatred of Islam and my intimate and clear understanding of these fundamentalist assholes. The CRs intend to deny Baptists the vote, execute gays, witches, Mormons, Greenpeacers, and Democrats. Who cares? In America, they're going nowhere. In Islam, assholes like this run the place. The goal, one Reconstructionists feel is now within reach, is a transformation of America into a religious state whose mission is to spread the Gospel (as they interpret it). Violence isn't shunned. As Gary North, the current grand man of the movement, wrote, In winning a nation to the Gospel, the sword as well as the pen must be used. Those who don't buy the plan could flee, or face unbending Mosaic justice. Eek! It's a mouse! If you're upset at CRs why the hell aren't you ballistic at the corpse mutilating Muslims? Every Muslim is more intolerant, stupid, bigoted and violent than any CR idiot. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
America the Theocracy
A few Excerpts. Read the whole thing, it's quite long: http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/cover.html America the theocracy A band of influential preachers is praying for the power to rule America. For those who disagree, they have a solution -- stoning. ... Rather, DeMar, a relentlessly logical (if you accept his assumptions) speaker, excitedly describes a new order, one in which God's trusted servants reign supreme over the three governments. It's a society in which only the faithful are citizens, democracy is a distasteful memory, and the state's primary purpose is assisting in the conquest of the Planet Earth for Christ. This is more than one man's radical dreaming. It's the core belief of a movement called Christian Reconstruction, and DeMar is its Tom Paine. Many followers accord him the status of transforming an arcane offshoot of Calvinism into a political dreadnought -- and of launching that theological warship at a speech 20 years ago. The movement, also dubbed dominion theology and theonomy, has spread far beyond the right wing of Presbyterian and Reformed churches. It has penetrated, to some degree, most conservative denominations, including Southern Baptist. ... The goal, one Reconstructionists feel is now within reach, is a transformation of America into a religious state whose mission is to spread the Gospel (as they interpret it). Violence isn't shunned. As Gary North, the current grand man of the movement, wrote, In winning a nation to the Gospel, the sword as well as the pen must be used. Those who don't buy the plan could flee, or face unbending Mosaic justice. ... Recruits to Reconstruction's adopted causes soon find the movement has a blunt distaste for pluralism and democracy. North wrote in 1982 -- in an effort to reach Baptists -- We must use the doctrine of religious liberty ... until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God. Freedom, then, will be no freedom. ... Last month, that sentiment reached the national level. The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 would acknowledge Christianity's God as the sovereign source of our laws. It would reach back in history and reverse all judicial decisions that have built a wall between church and state, and it would prohibit federal judges from making such rulings in the future. The bill was co-sponsored in the Senate by Zell Miller, the turncoat Georgia Democrat (and United Methodist), and several Republican colleagues, including South Carolina's Lindsey Graham; in the House, the sponsors were all Republican, including Georgia's Jack Kingston. But the actual drafting was done by Herb Titus, best known recently as former Alabama Chief Justice Moore's attorney. Titus also represents Georgia's Barrow County in its effort to put the Ten Commandments in its courthouse. Titus has more than a little self-serving interest in the legislation. If passed, it would overturn the rulings that forced Titus' most newsworthy client, Moore, from the bench. ... As for the Reconstruction economy, it would be a libertarian's dream -- as long as biblical laws, such as prohibiting usury, were adhered to. DeMar said last month, There's much (libertarian talk-show host) Neal Boortz and I agree on. Primarily, government isn't needed when it comes to economic issues. Unions would be illegal, as would any government role in workplace safety. Employers could discriminate for any and all reasons. Minimum wage, unemployment benefits, Social Security, welfare -- all history. Adios environmental protection laws, as well as regulation on who can call themselves a physician or lawyer. Public schools are anathema. One of the great successes of Reconstruction has been promoting home-schooling programs. Home schooling is much broader than Reconstruction, of course. But Illinois Reconstructionist Paul Lindstrom has devised texts used by tens of thousands of home-schooling families. ... The arena that generates the most attention -- and shock -- is dominion theology's radical plans to make capital punishment part of America's daily routine. Ringgold's Don Boys -- who as a one-term Indiana state official in the 1970s authored legislation that restored capital punishment there -- spoke cheerfully of a time when Americans will witness 10,000 executions a year. And Gary North suggests the method -- stoning -- because rocks are cheap, plentiful and convenient. Reconstructionists also favor other biblical forms of execution -- burning, hanging and the sword. Sins suitable for execution are those mentioned in the Old Testament. Interestingly, although male homosexuals would be among the first in line for the Reconstructionists' gallows, lesbians would be exempted because no specific
Re: America the Theocracy
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: xBrin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:25 AM Subject: America the Theocracy A few Excerpts. Read the whole thing, it's quite long: http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/cover.html America the theocracy A band of influential preachers is praying for the power to rule America. For those who disagree, they have a solution -- stoning. ... Rather, DeMar, a relentlessly logical (if you accept his assumptions) speaker, excitedly describes a new order, one in which God's trusted servants reign supreme over the three governments. It's a society in which only the faithful are citizens, democracy is a distasteful memory, and the state's primary purpose is assisting in the conquest of the Planet Earth for Christ. This is more than one man's radical dreaming. It's the core belief of a movement called Christian Reconstruction, and DeMar is its Tom Paine. Many followers accord him the status of transforming an arcane offshoot of Calvinism into a political dreadnought -- and of launching that theological warship at a speech 20 years ago. The movement, also dubbed dominion theology and theonomy, has spread far beyond the right wing of Presbyterian and Reformed churches. It has penetrated, to some degree, most conservative denominations, including Southern Baptist. ... The goal, one Reconstructionists feel is now within reach, is a transformation of America into a religious state whose mission is to spread the Gospel (as they interpret it). Violence isn't shunned. As Gary North, the current grand man of the movement, wrote, In winning a nation to the Gospel, the sword as well as the pen must be used. Those who don't buy the plan could flee, or face unbending Mosaic justice. ... Recruits to Reconstruction's adopted causes soon find the movement has a blunt distaste for pluralism and democracy. North wrote in 1982 -- in an effort to reach Baptists -- We must use the doctrine of religious liberty ... until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God. Freedom, then, will be no freedom. ... Last month, that sentiment reached the national level. The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 would acknowledge Christianity's God as the sovereign source of our laws. It would reach back in history and reverse all judicial decisions that have built a wall between church and state, and it would prohibit federal judges from making such rulings in the future. The bill was co-sponsored in the Senate by Zell Miller, the turncoat Georgia Democrat (and United Methodist), and several Republican colleagues, including South Carolina's Lindsey Graham; in the House, the sponsors were all Republican, including Georgia's Jack Kingston. But the actual drafting was done by Herb Titus, best known recently as former Alabama Chief Justice Moore's attorney. Titus also represents Georgia's Barrow County in its effort to put the Ten Commandments in its courthouse. Titus has more than a little self-serving interest in the legislation. If passed, it would overturn the rulings that forced Titus' most newsworthy client, Moore, from the bench. ... As for the Reconstruction economy, it would be a libertarian's dream -- as long as biblical laws, such as prohibiting usury, were adhered to. DeMar said last month, There's much (libertarian talk-show host) Neal Boortz and I agree on. Primarily, government isn't needed when it comes to economic issues. Unions would be illegal, as would any government role in workplace safety. Employers could discriminate for any and all reasons. Minimum wage, unemployment benefits, Social Security, welfare -- all history. Adios environmental protection laws, as well as regulation on who can call themselves a physician or lawyer. Public schools are anathema. One of the great successes of Reconstruction has been promoting home-schooling programs. Home schooling is much broader than Reconstruction, of course. But Illinois Reconstructionist Paul Lindstrom has devised texts used by tens of thousands of home-schooling families. ... The arena that generates the most attention -- and shock -- is dominion theology's radical plans to make capital punishment part of America's daily routine. Ringgold's Don Boys -- who as a one-term Indiana state official in the 1970s authored legislation that restored capital punishment there -- spoke cheerfully of a time when Americans will witness 10,000 executions a year. And Gary North suggests the method -- stoning -- because rocks are cheap, plentiful and convenient. Reconstructionists also favor other biblical forms of execution -- burning, hanging and the sword
Re: America the Theocracy
From: Nick Lidster [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: The Fool A few Excerpts. Read the whole thing, it's quite long: http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/cover.html America the theocracy well I'll make lidster's list Fool I hope this is a joke.and if all that stuff passes.. as much as i love this thread... I say world nuke us! These people are real. They really do want to remake America as a fascist Theocracy. They include people named 'Tom Delay', 'Trent Lott' and 'Bill Frist', to name a few congressmen who follow this ideology. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
