Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
Tom Beck wrote:
Another ponderable is the fascination British sci-fi shows have with the
Old
West. I can't think of a BritSF show that didn't try an oater ("The
Gunfighters", "Living in Harmony"). Maybe Blakes 7 didn't; don't recall.
Most of them
are stinkers. The only decent one is Red Dwarf's "Gunfighters of the
Apocalypse."
I thought the one in The Prisoner was pretty good. Was there a bad episode
of The Prisoner?
Reggie Bautista
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Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Another ponderable is the fascination British sci-fi shows have with the Old
> West. I can't think of a BritSF show that didn't try an oater ("The
> Gunfighters", "Living in Harmony"). Maybe Blakes 7 didn't; don't recall. Most of them
> are stinkers. The only decent one is Red Dwarf's "Gunfighters of the
> Apocalypse."
>
> (Actually, not just British SF. Star Trek did the awful "Specter of the Gun"
> and TNG had yet ANOTHER Holodeck screw-up, although I don't remember the
> title.)
A Fist Full of Datas, I think
Julia
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Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
"Bryon Daly" painstakingly wrote why I am wrong about this episode ;-) > >From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >As most of you know, I've been catching up on what you have all raved > >about, > >Babylon 5. I kept everyone up to date with an almost episode by episode > >commentary on season 1 and, as you told me, season 2 is even better. I > >have > >the season finale to watch later today (then a wait until next month for > >season 3 to come out.) > > What did you think of "Confessions and Lamentations"? That's probably my > favorite ep of the season. Good episode but my I'd be hard pressed to pick "A" favorite. If you force me to choose, its a tie between "The Coming of Shadows" and "In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum." > > >Season 2, while it took me awhile to get used to Sheridan (I liked > >Sinclcair), has gripped me from episode 1. However, last night I watched > >"Comes the Inquisitor". I watched in astonishment as this horrible, > >pointless episode trudged through the torture of Ambassador Delenn at the > >hand of a sadist who was ostensibley there to see if the Vorlons could > >trust > >her. > > > >BS flag is about halfway up the staff now and ascending rapidly. > > I was initially pretty turned off, too, when I first watched this episode. > But on further viewings, and reading what JMS had to say, it's obvious that > there's a lot more going on and being said here than what I picked up on my > initial viewing. Check out > http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/043.html for extnsive > analysis and commentary by JMS on this episode. > > >The Vorlons are portrayed as almost omniscinet and omnipotent, as well as > >almost non-knowable and non-understandable. And they have to resort to > >this! > > I don't think the Vorlons were portrayed as almost omniscient. Kosh was > certainly fooled by his attempted murderer in the series pilot. They are > incredibly advanced and powerful, but not omniscient or omnipotent. Future > episodes will also bear this out. > > As to why they'd use the Inquisitor over some sci-fi plot device - the point > was to put her *motives* and determination to the test. They wanted to know > *why* she was doing this - were her personal motivations the correct ones? > > Could there have been some "nicer" way or hi-tech way to so this? Perhaps, > but maybe the fact that they didn't choose such a way says something about > the Vorlons... > > Some comments from JMS on this point (collected and rearranged from the link > above): > > "The pain is necessary because it's easy to consider laying down one's life > intellectually; when the pain and the agony bring it home, it's no longer as > easy. > > And there *is* no correct answer to "Who are you?" The only real answer is > no answer, because as soon as you apply someone's term for it, you have > limited yourself, defined yourself in someone else's terms. > > Doing things in a refined, gentle, intellectual manner is the sort of thing > Delenn's used to, she can handle that easily...the goal of Sebastian was to > try and *break* her. That's not intended to be done gently. You don't break > someone over a cup of tea discussing philosophical concepts and the nature > of personal identity. It's also not terribly dramatic to watch. > > Because of her position, rank and authority, she expected to be treated a > certain way...which was why it was important to treat her just the opposite. > It's easy to put oneself into a grand prophecy, to assume one has a > destiny...to pay the price for that is something else again. Anyone can do > the former; very few can ever do the latter. > > Sacrificing oneself happens frequently...but for just one other person, AND > in a situation where no one else would ever know about it. Bear in mind that > he wasn't testing people randomly; only those who felt that they were chosen > of god, fulfillers of prophecy...people who assumed that they were part of > some grand scheme, and thus to whom an anonymous death is an intolerable > thought. > > Also, most probably never *got* that far, unable to stand the real pain of > being placed in this position. Everybody can talk the talk; very few can > walk the walk. Most probably just yanked off the bracelets and split, on the > theory that they weren't being sufficiently coddled or glorified...or > because being a potential prophet isn't as much fun as they'd thought. > > Will: thanks, and you're quite right; it does say something about the > Vorlons that they'd use Jack for this purpose. Now we just have to further > define what that is. > > It's pretty clear, to lots of folks, that the test was in some ways (most, > actually) more for Delenn's benefit than Kosh's...lots of folks got > this...and then others have said, "Well, if that's what he meant, why didn't > he just have one of them come out and SAY this, say what was learned or that > this was for THEIR benefit?" > > So frankly, whether one comes out and says something, or does not come out >
Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> As most of you know, I've been catching up on what you have all raved about, Babylon 5. I kept everyone up to date with an almost episode by episode commentary on season 1 and, as you told me, season 2 is even better. I have the season finale to watch later today (then a wait until next month for season 3 to come out.) What did you think of "Confessions and Lamentations"? That's probably my favorite ep of the season. Season 2, while it took me awhile to get used to Sheridan (I liked Sinclcair), has gripped me from episode 1. However, last night I watched "Comes the Inquisitor". I watched in astonishment as this horrible, pointless episode trudged through the torture of Ambassador Delenn at the hand of a sadist who was ostensibley there to see if the Vorlons could trust her. BS flag is about halfway up the staff now and ascending rapidly. I was initially pretty turned off, too, when I first watched this episode. But on further viewings, and reading what JMS had to say, it's obvious that there's a lot more going on and being said here than what I picked up on my initial viewing. Check out http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/043.html for extnsive analysis and commentary by JMS on this episode. The Vorlons are portrayed as almost omniscinet and omnipotent, as well as almost non-knowable and non-understandable. And they have to resort to this! I don't think the Vorlons were portrayed as almost omniscient. Kosh was certainly fooled by his attempted murderer in the series pilot. They are incredibly advanced and powerful, but not omniscient or omnipotent. Future episodes will also bear this out. As to why they'd use the Inquisitor over some sci-fi plot device - the point was to put her *motives* and determination to the test. They wanted to know *why* she was doing this - were her personal motivations the correct ones? Could there have been some "nicer" way or hi-tech way to so this? Perhaps, but maybe the fact that they didn't choose such a way says something about the Vorlons... Some comments from JMS on this point (collected and rearranged from the link above): "The pain is necessary because it's easy to consider laying down one's life intellectually; when the pain and the agony bring it home, it's no longer as easy. And there *is* no correct answer to "Who are you?" The only real answer is no answer, because as soon as you apply someone's term for it, you have limited yourself, defined yourself in someone else's terms. Doing things in a refined, gentle, intellectual manner is the sort of thing Delenn's used to, she can handle that easily...the goal of Sebastian was to try and *break* her. That's not intended to be done gently. You don't break someone over a cup of tea discussing philosophical concepts and the nature of personal identity. It's also not terribly dramatic to watch. Because of her position, rank and authority, she expected to be treated a certain way...which was why it was important to treat her just the opposite. It's easy to put oneself into a grand prophecy, to assume one has a destiny...to pay the price for that is something else again. Anyone can do the former; very few can ever do the latter. Sacrificing oneself happens frequently...but for just one other person, AND in a situation where no one else would ever know about it. Bear in mind that he wasn't testing people randomly; only those who felt that they were chosen of god, fulfillers of prophecy...people who assumed that they were part of some grand scheme, and thus to whom an anonymous death is an intolerable thought. Also, most probably never *got* that far, unable to stand the real pain of being placed in this position. Everybody can talk the talk; very few can walk the walk. Most probably just yanked off the bracelets and split, on the theory that they weren't being sufficiently coddled or glorified...or because being a potential prophet isn't as much fun as they'd thought. Will: thanks, and you're quite right; it does say something about the Vorlons that they'd use Jack for this purpose. Now we just have to further define what that is. It's pretty clear, to lots of folks, that the test was in some ways (most, actually) more for Delenn's benefit than Kosh's...lots of folks got this...and then others have said, "Well, if that's what he meant, why didn't he just have one of them come out and SAY this, say what was learned or that this was for THEIR benefit?" So frankly, whether one comes out and says something, or does not come out and say something, someone on one side or the other is going to give you a hard time about it." Then at the end we find out that Scotland Yard wasn't inept, Jack the Ripper was absconded by the Vorlons for thier inscrutable reasons. What has this to do with the "Coming Darkness?" Where did finding out his fate fit into the grand scheme of things? Please don't tell me he plays an
Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
In a message dated 7/12/03 10:20:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> What is it with sci-fi series and Jack the ripper? The series Timecop did
> several Jack the ripper episodes, Sliders did one, The Outer Limits did one
> (then several "sequel" episodes on the same theme), B5 did one, IIRC even
> one of the Star Trek series did one, but details escape my memory at the
> moment.
>
"Wolf in the Fold" and not a bad episode.
Another ponderable is the fascination British sci-fi shows have with the Old
West. I can't think of a BritSF show that didn't try an oater ("The
Gunfighters", "Living in Harmony"). Maybe Blakes 7 didn't; don't recall. Most of them
are stinkers. The only decent one is Red Dwarf's "Gunfighters of the
Apocalypse."
(Actually, not just British SF. Star Trek did the awful "Specter of the Gun"
and TNG had yet ANOTHER Holodeck screw-up, although I don't remember the
title.)
Tom Beck
www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org
"I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the
last." - Dr Jerry Pournelle
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Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Season 2, while it took me awhile to get used to Sheridan (I liked > Sinclcair), has gripped me from episode 1. However, last night I watched > "Comes the Inquisitor". I watched in astonishment as this horrible, > pointless episode trudged through the torture of Ambassador Delenn at the > hand of a sadist who was ostensibley there to see if the Vorlons could trust > her. > > > What dreck! > > If this episode had been the first I had seen, I may not have watched > another. Fortunately, every episode in season 2 up to that point had me > riveted to the screen. And all of you had said its going to get even > better. > > I know this episode is a glitch, a hiccough, but I was sorely disappointed > in it. > > George A > A lot happens and a lot is revealed about the Vorlons in season 3, during/after that season, that episode gains a lot of context. The inquisitor being Jack the ripper was something I think that that episode could really have done without though. To the best of my recollection, he is not seen in any future episodes. I don't want to say more else I ruin things for you. What is it with sci-fi series and Jack the ripper? The series Timecop did several Jack the ripper episodes, Sliders did one, The Outer Limits did one (then several "sequel" episodes on the same theme), B5 did one, IIRC even one of the Star Trek series did one, but details escape my memory at the moment. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons." - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Gotta raise the BS flag on this one
--- "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know this episode is a glitch, a hiccough, but I > was sorely disappointed > in it. > > George A How odd. "Comes the Inquisitor" was the episode that convinced me that B5 was not simply good, but great television, and quite possibly great art. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
