Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
No matter what laws get passed, no matter who can leagaly cary a gun and who can't Criminals will allways own and carry guns. Right, and other criminals will always commit crimes, so why have any laws at all? A much more interesting statistic would be the perentage of non-law-enforcement people who carry a conceled weapons who are also non-criminals. Personsly I would prefer there to be more non-criminals with concealed weapons than criminals with concealed weapons, but proponents of gun control laws seem to prefer it if ONLY criminals carry weapons. No we don't. We don't want anyone to have a gun who doesn't have a good reason to have one. And we don't feel it is impossible to cut down on the sheer extraordinarily huge number of guns circulating in our society. Difficult, especially given the grinding political power of the NRA, but why should it be so easy to buy a gun in Virginia that criminals drive down from New York to stock up on guns and then drive them back up to New York to sell? Nobody really needs a gun. Seriously. If you absolutely have to have one (and I don't know why you would), you should have to demonstrate that need, demonstrate proper training in its use, be required to own insurance against any possible misuse of your gun by you or by anyone else (thus giving you a powerful incentive to take good care of it). I'm not talking about hunters or target-shooters, but they tend to be much more responsible about taking care of their weapons than the gun nuts symbolized by Phil Gramm, who, when asked how many guns he had, replied, More than I need but not as many as I want. Guns are dangerous. Pure and simple. It may not be possible to get rid of them entirely, but that should be our society's goal. Meanwhile, let's settle for what limitations we can get. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:15 PM 8/4/03 -0700, Chad Cooper wrote: Wait a sec... I see 50% of all automobiles with at least an American Flag decal, and a fair percentage with an actual flag. Those that use the flag in hate are such a small percentage, it probably can't be measured ... And so far, unlike the example of the Confederate flag in the school logo I mentioned I my reply to Ritu, I don't recall anyone being shot because he was driving down the street with an American flag on his vehicle. People opposed to the US flag may be less likely to own firearms than people opposed to the Confedrate flag. Julia Just One Theory Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
--- Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought it was people who fly the Confederate flag who were more likely to not only own firearms but to have a rifle on a rack in the back window of their truck . . . I Can Say That Because I Live Here Maru Well, the people who are going to have the strongest feelings one way or the other about the Confederate flag are more likely to be in the south, where general gun ownership is higher than it is in, say, the northeast. If you took *everyone* in the US who have very negative feelings about the US flag and calculated the percentage who own guns, I bet it would be smaller than the percentage of gun-owners among those who have very negative feelings about the Confederate flag. Julia That's a tough call, to say in general gun ownership is less in the northeast. I think if you throw out Philly, New York City and Massachusetts, the percentages would pass the south. And please, throw out all three. After Atlanta do any southern cities have restrictive gun laws? Don't know if you are considering Florida as part of the south. I'd actually bet there are more gun owners who have negative feelings about the US flag than the Confederate flag. I just don't think there are that many who have any strong feelings about the Con flag, period. I think that relating the two is rediculous. In much the same way as relating poodle owners to persons who have marigolds in their front lawn. Or cell phone users to people who own a back-hoe. No matter what laws get passed, no matter who can leagaly cary a gun and who can't Criminals will allways own and carry guns. A much more interesting statistic would be the perentage of non-law-enforcement people who carry a conceled weapons who are also non-criminals. Personsly I would prefer there to be more non-criminals with concealed weapons than criminals with concealed weapons, but proponents of gun control laws seem to prefer it if ONLY criminals carry weapons. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
-Original Message- From: David Hobby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 6:57 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of price discrimination No, David, you proved my much larger point. Congratulations, _you_ are the perfect example for why the left has no relevance to American politics today. You pegged it in one - I do say you're an extremist too. If you really feel that it's reasonable to call the American flag a symbol of hatred - which you have just repeatedly said you do - you have just proven my larger point about the collapse of the left far better than I ever could. Out of your own mouth. I couldn't have _asked_ for a better post to make my point. = Gautam Mukunda Yes, I feel it is reasonable to call the US flag a symbol of hatred, in the sense that many who wave it most fervently do so partially out of hate. Wait a sec... I see 50% of all automobiles with at least an American Flag decal, and a fair percentage with an actual flag. Those that use the flag in hate are such a small percentage, it probably can't be measured ... If I didn't know any better, I would say you just accused me of being identified (call it stereotyped) as hateful because I wave a flag Or you just talking about the radical right-wing hate groups that happen to wave flags as well. Frankly, if we are stereotyping, I would say that most radical left-wing hate groups prefer to burn the Flag in effagy. Strangly enough, many protestors of American policy overseas do the same thing They make defilement a political statement. Could not this be thought of as hateful, or is it perhaps just behavior conducive of Being Enlightened. OK OK OK . I understand what you meant (I think). Luckily you put enough ambuigity into it to not allow anyone to pin you down to the ground on this one... Perhaps some of the people who wave the flag have some hate in them, but flag waving and flag burning are a lot different. Those who hate the US and see the flag as a symbol of their hatred don't wave the flag, they burn it (or is that statement a bit stereotypical... ). To be honest, your statement made me mad... Nerd From Hell You seem to have removed all of the modifiers from your restatement. For comparison, part of my original post is quoted below. ---David P.S. Do you use extremist as more than a label for those you disagree with? If you define it as more than 3 sigma from the mean, or something, then we could continue this discussion. But if someone is an extremist just because you say so, I really have no opportunity to reply. Where have you been? Everybody uses symbols differently, of course. But I saw many flying the flag who seemed to do so out of some mix of patriotism, jingoism and hate. (Anyway, they would say things like Kill all Arabs!) When others have contaminated a symbol with things one does not believe in, one reasonable response is to avoid using the symbol. (Another is to attempt to reclaim it, but either should be fair.) So her rhetoric is over-the-top, but her basic position doesn't seem too far out. ---David - ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Just Shows What You Get By Choosing To Live Across The Street From The Comet Theatre Maru What would you get for living across the street from the Orbit? ( http://www.joerlansdale.com/ ) Julia hoping that Dan can snag me a copy of Lansdale's _Freezer Burn_ this afternoon -- I'm missing ArmadilloCon, but I just don't have the energy to go anywhere long enough to make going to the con worth my while, sigh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:47 PM 8/5/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 05:15 PM 8/4/03 -0700, Chad Cooper wrote: Wait a sec... I see 50% of all automobiles with at least an American Flag decal, and a fair percentage with an actual flag. Those that use the flag in hate are such a small percentage, it probably can't be measured ... And so far, unlike the example of the Confederate flag in the school logo I mentioned I my reply to Ritu, I don't recall anyone being shot because he was driving down the street with an American flag on his vehicle. People opposed to the US flag may be less likely to own firearms than people opposed to the Confedrate flag. I thought it was people who fly the Confederate flag who were more likely to not only own firearms but to have a rifle on a rack in the back window of their truck . . . I Can Say That Because I Live Here Maru Well, the people who are going to have the strongest feelings one way or the other about the Confederate flag are more likely to be in the south, where general gun ownership is higher than it is in, say, the northeast. If you took *everyone* in the US who have very negative feelings about the US flag and calculated the percentage who own guns, I bet it would be smaller than the percentage of gun-owners among those who have very negative feelings about the Confederate flag. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
I thought it was people who fly the Confederate flag who were more likely to not only own firearms but to have a rifle on a rack in the back window of their truck . . . I Can Say That Because I Live Here Maru Well, the people who are going to have the strongest feelings one way or the other about the Confederate flag are more likely to be in the south, where general gun ownership is higher than it is in, say, the northeast. If you took *everyone* in the US who have very negative feelings about the US flag and calculated the percentage who own guns, I bet it would be smaller than the percentage of gun-owners among those who have very negative feelings about the Confederate flag. Julia That's a tough call, to say in general gun ownership is less in the northeast. I think if you throw out Philly, New York City and Massachusetts, the percentages would pass the south. And please, throw out all three. After Atlanta do any southern cities have restrictive gun laws? Don't know if you are considering Florida as part of the south. I'd actually bet there are more gun owners who have negative feelings about the US flag than the Confederate flag. I just don't think there are that many who have any strong feelings about the Con flag, period. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Politics, was [L3] Re: fight the evil of pricediscrimination
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: And then there have been any number of cases when a Jewish boy who wore his yarmulke to school had it ripped off his head and stomped into the ground by a group of bullies who then proceeded to beat him up simply for being different . . . And there was a case where a Jewish student was told to remove the Star of David necklace he was wearing when he went to school because school officials thought it was a gang symbol. *Ignorance* of the beliefs and customs of others can lead to all sorts of unpleasantness. At least ignorance can be cured more easily than some other problems Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
