Re: [PATCH 0/3] less: display ANSI colors with option -R
Am 23.01.2014 21:32, schrieb Laurent Bercot: On 2014-01-23 19:28, Bernhard Reutner-Fischer wrote: Fix systemd then. systemd is broken by design. The only way to fix it is to scrap it and design another, non-broken init system from the ground up. And it has already been done, several times. (By me, among others.) But apart from that I'd like to have a less that can display colors. Going down the slippery slope of rich text formatting usually ends up in implementing a full HTML parser. :P Tex seems a more sophisticated system ;) re, wh ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
systemd bashing (man it feels good) (was: [PATCH 0/3] less: display ANSI colors with option -R)
On 2014-01-24 06:16, Denys Vlasenko wrote: Admit it - traditional SysV init is neanderthal. Not merely simple (that's not a bad thing!) - but awkward too. Oh, I totally agree - I wrote s6, remember ? And I'm so much more interested in getting the design and the code right than in seeing it widely adopted that I didn't even take the time to promote it - just the opposite of Lennart - which is obviously a huge oversight. systemd was so obviously inane and insane to me that I didn't even consider it could make it that big. My objection to Pottering's onslaught on Linux is not on the basis that he writes buggy code. My objection is that he tends to write *monolithic* code. systemd requires dbus. systemd includes logging daemon. That's exactly what I meant by broken by design. See http://skarnet.org/software/s6/why.html and http://skarnet.org/software/s6/s6-svscan-not-1.html#systemd :) Lennart's quest for change disregards not only the current conventions (which is not a bad thing to do per se), but also the most basic software design principles as well as the core of the Unix philosophy. This guy should apply at Microsoft, they'd love him there. It goes farther than that. Some things don't merely live in tools which systemd requires (e.g. dbus). A lot of crap is _in systemd_! (...) What the hell *TCP wrappers* or *udev* have to do with *init binary*? (...) Amen, brother, amen. But I'm afraid you and I will be preaching to the choir here. It's not the busybox mailing-list that we need to convince, it's the major Linux distributions. I have no idea how a piece of software that I wouldn't give a D to as an undergraduate student project made it into Fedora and Arch Linux, is threatening the whole GNU ecosystem, and is making countless people waste countless hours trying to integrate it while keeping a pretense of modularity. I'm not good at advocacy - waging political wars is bothersome and tiresome to me, and writing good code is a much better use of my time. But someone who is, and who has a tiny bit of sense of what good engineering is, should definitely step up and expose the systemd fraud, and I'm all willing, as I'm sure you are, to provide the detailed technical arguments. -- Laurent ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
Re: [PATCH 0/3] less: display ANSI colors with option -R
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014, at 21:28, Bernhard Reutner-Fischer wrote: On 23 January 2014 11:01:05 Denys Vlasenko vda.li...@googlemail.com Pottering's attempts to force his crap down our throats have to be called out and resisted. :) Fix systemd then. But apart from that I'd like to have a less that can display colors. Another me too. Colors in less are useful with git etc, systemd doesn't have to have something to do with it. - Lauri -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
Re: systemd bashing (man it feels good)
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Laurent Bercot ska-dietl...@skarnet.org wrote: Lennart's quest for change disregards not only the current conventions (which is not a bad thing to do per se), but also the most basic software design principles as well as the core of the Unix philosophy. This guy should apply at Microsoft, they'd love him there. It goes farther than that. Some things don't merely live in tools which systemd requires (e.g. dbus). A lot of crap is _in systemd_! (...) What the hell *TCP wrappers* or *udev* have to do with *init binary*? Amen, brother, amen. But I'm afraid you and I will be preaching to the choir here. It's not the busybox mailing-list that we need to convince, it's the major Linux distributions. I have no idea how a piece of software that I wouldn't give a D to as an undergraduate student project You are too harsh. It is not deserving a D for a student work. However, yes, it's above D is far too low a bar to aim for. I'm not good at advocacy Apparently there is no other way but to learn how to do that. But someone who is, and who has a tiny bit of sense of what good engineering is, should definitely step up and expose the systemd fraud, and I'm all willing, as I'm sure you are, to provide the detailed technical arguments. systemd is not a fraud. It does not help in discussions if you throw around inaccurate disparaging comments about things you criticize. It's important to be correct. Fraud is an act of deliberate misleading for personal gain. A piece of software, however badly designed or buggy, can't be a fraud. There are more difficulties. What exactly is good engineering? I bet finding a consensus on that one won't be easy. So, while you and me feel that systemd isn't well engineered, there will be people (its authors, for one) who honestly believe it is. If you will talk to people about it, you need to carefully, with well-thought-out arguments, explain *why exactly* it is badly engineered. -- vda ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
Re: [PATCH 0/3] less: display ANSI colors with option -R
But apart from that I'd like to have a less that can display colors. Another me too. Colors in less are useful with git etc, systemd doesn't have to have something to do with it. ... to clarify my me too. I do not use systemd. I like to create colored file lists and colored log lists to be viewed with a pager. A simple textual pager, not a full fledged HTML Browser or even text processor. -- Harald ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
Re: Updated POSIX man pages
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Harald Becker wrote: Hi, for those who are interested: Gentoo seams to have updated POSIX man pages (first Update since 2003). Nothing really big: they just added the arm64 arch. Ostensibly, there might be a POSIX2008+TC1 update making its way to the linux-manpages project. But when I heard that permission to redistribute had been granted and that the maintainer had asked for troff source was sometime last summer, so don't hold your breath. Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
Re: Updated POSIX man pages
On Fri, 2014-01-24 at 08:50 -0800, Isaac Dunham wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Harald Becker wrote: Hi, for those who are interested: Gentoo seams to have updated POSIX man pages (first Update since 2003). Nothing really big: they just added the arm64 arch. Ostensibly, there might be a POSIX2008+TC1 update making its way to the linux-manpages project. But when I heard that permission to redistribute had been granted and that the maintainer had asked for troff source was sometime last summer, so don't hold your breath. You might have missed: http://lwn.net/Articles/581858/ ? ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
Re: Updated POSIX man pages
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:06:52PM -0500, Paul Smith wrote: On Fri, 2014-01-24 at 08:50 -0800, Isaac Dunham wrote: On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Harald Becker wrote: Hi, for those who are interested: Gentoo seams to have updated POSIX man pages (first Update since 2003). Nothing really big: they just added the arm64 arch. Ostensibly, there might be a POSIX2008+TC1 update making its way to the linux-manpages project. But when I heard that permission to redistribute had been granted and that the maintainer had asked for troff source was sometime last summer, so don't hold your breath. You might have missed: http://lwn.net/Articles/581858/ Yes, you are correct. I just discovered that myself. I'd checked the Gentoo viewvc and found only a minor update, so I assumed that was it. FYI, POSIX2013 == POSIX2008+TC1. Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ busybox mailing list busybox@busybox.net http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/busybox
