Re: ER Tools
There is no standard that define it. If you do a search for table name plural in google, you will see many discussions about that. So, I am asking because maybe there is a good reason to use it. If so, i can adopt plural table names too. :) Some examples: http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=showixPost=5904 http://www.google.com.br/search?q=table+name+plural On 1/28/07, NOSLOW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pje, A table is a collection of many records (plural); A model (singular) defines how each individual record is handled. At least that's how I think of it. Perhaps someone else can convey the thinking into words more precisely. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Oh, in that case, there is a good reason to adopt it if you're using CakePHP: It's one of the naming conventions. http://manual.cakephp.org/appendix/conventions On Jan 29, 6:49 am, Pje [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no standard that define it. If you do a search for table name So, I am asking because maybe there is a good reason to use it. If so, i can adopt plural table names too. :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
If there is a trick, perhaps you could share it with the list? If you double click the relationship (the line connecting the tables), you can edit the name of the field DBDesigner uses for the foreign key. (took me a while to work this one out too) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Grrr... still getting used to the new google groups gui. Didn't see the 2nd page of replies... On Jan 29, 3:09 pm, RichardAtHome [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If there is a trick, perhaps you could share it with the list? If you double click the relationship (the line connecting the tables), you can edit the name of the field DBDesigner uses for the foreign key. (took me a while to work this one out too) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
because that's how cake works. the table is in plural form the model name is in singular form (not much creative today :) spark On 1/28/07, Pje [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, There is a reason to use plural names in your tables? Because, in a logical model, entity names must be in singular. Why, when transforming my logical model to the physical, would I transform each entity name to a plural? -- [web] http://synapsisdi.com.br [livesets] http://djspark.com.br/mp3 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Hi, There is a reason to use plural names in your tables? Because, in a logical model, entity names must be in singular. Why, when transforming my logical model to the physical, would I transform each entity name to a plural? On 1/5/07, Larry E. Masters aka PhpNut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/4/07, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Larry had shown something similar he had done to me - perhaps he can share it with the list. The best examples that I have to show is the one I designed for the Bakery and a simple blog. With the Bakery I noted all associations in both directions. http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/bakery.png http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/bakery.pdf In this design I used simple notation. http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/blog.png http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/blog.pdf I also wrote a script that will parse the DbDesigner xml file and create a list of associations . Right now it only works when associations are noted as the Bakery. If I find the time I may convert it to use the simple notation used in the blog diagrams above. http://bin.cakephp.org/saved/131 -- /** * @author Larry E. Masters * @var string $userName * @param string $realName * @returns string aka PhpNut * @access public */ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
sqlYOG is amazing. It is not expensive either. It was a great use of fifty bucks. I have been using it for about six months now and I love it. As far as DB Design tools go, I have done alot of research and it seems that until workbench is stable, you will need to spend money. Every tool that I have tried seems to have one missing feature that makes it unusable. 1 They cannot reverse engineer the existing database. 2 They cannot export the diagrams (typically they can export anything but MySQL 5!!). 3. They cannot print. 4. They have a time limit until you need to pay money. I don't mind spending money on sophisticated software but the problem is that Diagramming tools are expensive for a small budget. On Jan 4, 2:23 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have used DBDesigner to design the database tables. But for managing mysql databases, theres nothing like sqlYOG. it is not free. For a while, I was working with the trial edition, and it rocks. cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [professionel] Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
John I've always had mixed feelings about this: in some ways using triggers, stored procedures and the like seem to me like spreading your application logic in too many places. I can see where they'd be useful though, too. No. ALL the business logic should be where it belongs, with the data (Think OOP, where is the logic?) Your application is a view, a client. That's it. You should not have any business logic there. Data entry validation, sure, as it makes for a better user interface (still, the database should check for this too) Just be sure your app knows how to deal with integrity failures. Can't. Only the DB knows about transactions, COMMIT and ROLLBACK. I'd imagine its a little lower on the priority list, mostly due to the fact that different engines handle things so differently, but Nate and PhpNut will have to give the definitive answer on this one. No. DB engines handle things differently INTERNALLY. The interface is the same. Right now, Cake works with PostgreSQL as well as with MySQL (and maybe others). The simple fact is that a MySQL background is not the proper way to get a good SQL background. Bernard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [professionel] Re: ER Tools
codecowboy wrote: 2 They cannot export the diagrams (typically they can export anything but MySQL 5!!). makes a lot of sense. Before 5, Mysql knew nothing about entity relations. Bernard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Pje, A table is a collection of many records (plural); A model (singular) defines how each individual record is handled. At least that's how I think of it. Perhaps someone else can convey the thinking into words more precisely. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Yup, works fine with Windows :-) (I pretty much use it every day) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Hi NOSLOW, Just wanted to report back and thank you. I followed your advice and DBDesigner is no longer causing problems. FYI, the problem was I had been using the plain relationships (the lower set of icons). Using the non-identifying ones (the upper set), as you suggested, made the problems disappear. Thanks NOSLOW. (And thanks to the comments of others regarding DB-based foreign key constraints for db's accessed by multiple applications). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
DBDesigner is great in some ways, but a real pain in others. For example, if you create a A hasMany B relationship, it creates a foreign key for you in B. That's fine. But it makes that foreign key part of a composite primary key for table B. Don't understand the reason for that. The problem is if you have a B hasMany C relationship, it creates two foreign keys in table C, one for each part of the composite key in B. Another issue, if you ever have to delete a relationship because you accidentally input it in reverse and want to change it's direction, you could end up deleting the primary key in one of the tables. And the effect ripples to all other tables which may have foreign keys to that table. So, one small mistake can cause you lots of cleanup work. I wasn't happy about that aspect. It's enough to prevent me from using it with cake. A final question: how important are REAL foreign keys in the database, if you are using cake associations. Are they superfluous? Are they still needed? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Another (minor) problem with the otherwise excellent DBDesigner is that
it uses MySQL old passwords. This means that once you create your MySQL
User, you then need to run the following sql before you can connect
with DBDesigner:
SET PASSWORD FOR 'some_user'@'some_host' = OLD_PASSWORD('newpwd');
Also worth noting: DBDesigner is no longer actively developed. It's
functionality is being incorporated into the MySQL GUI tools. Check out
the MySQL Workbench tool (
http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html )
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Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
keymaster wrote: A final question: how important are REAL foreign keys in the database, if you are using cake associations. Are they superfluous? Are they still needed? It depends on what you're doing. They are extremely important if your database offers read-write access to more than one application from the same set of tables. A large majority of those who have swallowed the Rails-like pill have never worked with large-scale databases and do not understand the necessity of enforcing integrity with foreign keys, triggers and stored procedures. On the other hand, if your database isn't mission critical or if you only have one application accessing your core tables then you can do away with these sorts of things BUT you need to be certain that your application is enforcing any rules as need be. A proper database will usually do these things much better than you will and I would hazard a guess that they contain fewer bugs then your application logic (or rather, that their bugs are better documented). Some systems (as in Siebel and friends) do not use foreign keys but provide a set of integration tables that are used by external systems to populate and manipulate the data in the core set of tables; these tables are often handled by batch processes of some kind. I don't believe that Cake reads and understands foreign keys at this time... I would hope that this would be the case at some point but it may not happen for a while (or ever, depending on how the Cake developers feel about this). Cheers, Matt -- BASIC: A programming language. Related to certain social diseases in that those who have it will not admit it in polite company. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
On Jan 10, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Matt Adams wrote: keymaster wrote: A final question: how important are REAL foreign keys in the database, if you are using cake associations. Are they superfluous? Are they still needed? It depends on what you're doing. They are extremely important if your database offers read-write access to more than one application from the same set of tables. A large majority of those who have swallowed the Rails-like pill have never worked with large-scale databases and do not understand the necessity of enforcing integrity with foreign keys, triggers and stored procedures. I've always had mixed feelings about this: in some ways using triggers, stored procedures and the like seem to me like spreading your application logic in too many places. I can see where they'd be useful though, too. : / On the other hand, if your database isn't mission critical or if you only have one application accessing your core tables then you can do away with these sorts of things BUT you need to be certain that your application is enforcing any rules as need be. A proper database will usually do these things much better than you will and I would hazard a guess that they contain fewer bugs then your application logic (or rather, that their bugs are better documented). Just be sure your app knows how to deal with integrity failures. Some systems (as in Siebel and friends) do not use foreign keys but provide a set of integration tables that are used by external systems to populate and manipulate the data in the core set of tables; these tables are often handled by batch processes of some kind. I don't believe that Cake reads and understands foreign keys at this time... I would hope that this would be the case at some point but it may not happen for a while (or ever, depending on how the Cake developers feel about this). I'd imagine its a little lower on the priority list, mostly due to the fact that different engines handle things so differently, but Nate and PhpNut will have to give the definitive answer on this one. -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
RichardAtHome, Does this work on Windows? The last I checked (within the past few months) it did not (and a google search confirmed that it was a well known issue). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
keymaster, I think that your problems may be related to how you have it configured. I had the same problem with my primary key (id field) getting deleted when I realized that I picked my tables in the wrong order when setting up the relationship. Now that I got everything working correctly, it's working out great for me. Here are a few things to check: 1. Under Options--Model Options--Editing Options, make sure that Add Source Table Name to Foreign Key Column's Names option is checked. (I also have my Default Table Type set to InnoDB, which enables me to also check the Automatically create Index on FK Fields in Destination Table if ... option). 2. From the toolbox, only use the New 1:n Non-Identifying Relation and the New 1:1 Non-Identifying Relation buttons (the icons that show a dotted line for the relations connection on the toolbar button). 3. The order you select the tables when defining the relations matters. CakePHP has 4 relation types: hasOne, hasMany, belongsTo and hasAndBelongsToMany. Only one of the four works counter-intuitively in DBDesigner4, and that's when defining the hasOne relations. Typically, you follow the order in how it reads: ModelOne hasMany ModelTwo -- first click table model_ones, then model_twos. But for hasOne, it's backwards: ModelOne hasOne ModelTwo -- first click table model_twos, then table model_ones. 4. After defining a relation, immediately edit it (double click on it) and rename it to read the CakePHP way (ModelOne hasMany ModelTwo, note: you're using the model name convention, NOT the table name convention here...model_ones hasMany model_twos would be wrong). Then, (this is the only pain), you have to rename the Dest. Name Foreign Key to follow the CakePHP convention of tablename-singular (DBDesigner creates it as model_twos_id, you want it to be model_two_id). If you follow this configuration and conventions (thanks, Larry, for showing us the way! study his model diagrams closely if you haven't already), it should work out great for you. You'll see that it's a breeze because DBDesigner will manage your foreign keys for you (you just have to correct the naming of them to be singular). Thus, deleting a relation will do the right thing and remove the correct FK, and not the needed id field. Good luck! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Thanks NOSLOW, I thought I was doing most of the things you mentioned. Will double check again, since you had success. What did you think about the foreign keys being added to a growing composite primary key. Didn't that bother you? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
I did not encounter that, so see if it's still a problem after double checking everything. My model diagram looks just like the examples Larry posted. Only one PK (id field) in each table. On 1/10/07, keymaster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks NOSLOW, I thought I was doing most of the things you mentioned. Will double check again, since you had success. What did you think about the foreign keys being added to a growing composite primary key. Didn't that bother you? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
keymaster wrote: A final question: how important are REAL foreign keys in the database, if you are using cake associations. Are they superfluous? Are they still needed? On Jan 10, 2007, at 10:29 AM, Matt Adams wrote: They are extremely important if your database offers read-write access to more than one application from the same set of tables. A large majority of those who have swallowed the Rails-like pill have never worked with large-scale databases and do not understand the necessity of enforcing integrity with foreign keys, triggers and stored procedures. John David Anderson (_psychic_) wrote: I've always had mixed feelings about this: in some ways using triggers, stored procedures and the like seem to me like spreading your application logic in too many places. I can see where they'd be useful though, too. I understand the resistance to placing application logic in more than once place but in situations where two or three or more applications are accessing the same database it makes much more sense to enforce all of this in ONE place (i.e., the database) then to try and duplicate the same logic correctly through several different applications. Do you really want to trust the developers from several different teams to all interpret the schema correctly and enforce the correct data integrity rules for a shared database? Of course not, people make mistakes. That's why you have your DBA nail down how the relationships are going to be set up used and enforce it in once place. That way the bug that some well-meaning developer in customer applications introduced doesn't mangle the in-house service data (assuming the two are connected in some way). Enforcing data integrity in the database isn't about application logic, per se although the two domains may have some degree of overlap - it's about making sure that two different applications with separate uses of the same data don't muck things up badly for the other team. Just be sure your app knows how to deal with integrity failures. Mine might, but I don't want to count on the ugly piece of crap the bloke down the hall is writing. I write this full-knowing that I have been that guy down the hall from time to time. Cheers, Matt -- BASIC: A programming language. Related to certain social diseases in that those who have it will not admit it in polite company. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Oh yeah! Larry E. Masters aka PhpNut wrote: On 1/5/07, CraZyLeGs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where is that Forum diagram again.. This one? http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.png http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.pdf -- /** * @author Larry E. Masters * @var string $userName * @param string $realName * @returns string aka PhpNut * @access public */ --=_Part_17076_3528167.1168014425597 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Google-AttachSize: 770 brbrdivspan class=gmail_quoteOn 1/5/07, b class=gmail_sendernameCraZyLeGs/b lt;a href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/agt; wrote:/spanblockquote class=gmail_quote style=border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; brWhere is that Forum diagram again..br/blockquote/divbrThis one?bra href=http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.png;http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.png/abra href=http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.pdf; http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.pdf/abrbr-- br/**br* @author Larry E. Mastersbr* @var string $userNamebr* @param string $realNamebr* @returns string aka PhpNutbr* @accessnbsp;nbsp;publicbr*/ --=_Part_17076_3528167.1168014425597-- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Hi Larry This question is way off topic for the list so feel free to ignore/delete/reply off list. I would have asked it on the FabForce support forum, but is has been closed down due to attacks :-( I have also scoured Google without luck on this topic. I have hit a snag with DBDesigner and foreign keys and Cake. As my tables are named in the Cake convention: model_names I am getting foreign keys called: model_names_id rather than model_name_id Having looked at your output for the Bakery here: http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.png it looks like you have managed to get around this issue. I have scoured settings in DBDesigner, but can't figure it out. If there is a trick, perhaps you could share it with the list? Regards, Langdon Langdon Stevenson wrote: Thanks for that post Larry, I am checking out DbDesigner. Should be a good addition to my tool set. Regards, Langdon I also wrote a script that will parse the DbDesigner xml file and create a list of associations . Right now it only works when associations are noted as the Bakery. If I find the time I may convert it to use the simple notation used in the blog diagrams above. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Langdon, Sure no problem... For example users table comments table. Create a 1:n association from users table to comments table. This will create a users_id in the comments table. Double click the link between them. The edit screen should allow you to change users_id to user_id. On 1/7/07, Langdon Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Larry This question is way off topic for the list so feel free to ignore/delete/reply off list. I would have asked it on the FabForce support forum, but is has been closed down due to attacks :-( I have also scoured Google without luck on this topic. I have hit a snag with DBDesigner and foreign keys and Cake. As my tables are named in the Cake convention: model_names I am getting foreign keys called: model_names_id rather than model_name_id Having looked at your output for the Bakery here: http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.png it looks like you have managed to get around this issue. I have scoured settings in DBDesigner, but can't figure it out. If there is a trick, perhaps you could share it with the list? Regards, Langdon Langdon Stevenson wrote: Thanks for that post Larry, I am checking out DbDesigner. Should be a good addition to my tool set. Regards, Langdon I also wrote a script that will parse the DbDesigner xml file and create a list of associations . Right now it only works when associations are noted as the Bakery. If I find the time I may convert it to use the simple notation used in the blog diagrams above. -- /** * @author Larry E. Masters * @var string $userName * @param string $realName * @returns string aka PhpNut * @access public */ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: OT - Q for PHPNut on DBDesigner 4 - Was: ER Tools
Argh! I knew it had to be something simple ... I had forgotten about editing FK field names after much trouble with it renaming 'id' fields earlier. Thanks Larry, very much appreciated. Regards, Langdon Larry E. Masters aka PhpNut wrote: Langdon, Sure no problem... For example users table comments table. Create a 1:n association from users table to comments table. This will create a users_id in the comments table. Double click the link between them. The edit screen should allow you to change users_id to user_id. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
For those tring DBDesigner, it took me a few hours to understand when the program creates FK in the table (as shown in Larry's images), and why it *deletes* that field when I delete the association :) It assumes the key is there only because of the association, even it was already there. Not sure it it was me being silly, or the software being too picky When I saw the bakery diagram, a few months ago, I started to use the same notation as Larry, and it helped *A LOT* Thanks Spark On 1/6/07, Langdon Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for that post Larry, I am checking out DbDesigner. Should be a good addition to my tool set. Regards, Langdon I also wrote a script that will parse the DbDesigner xml file and create a list of associations . Right now it only works when associations are noted as the Bakery. If I find the time I may convert it to use the simple notation used in the blog diagrams above. -- [web] http://synapsisdi.com.br [livesets] http://djspark.com.br/mp3 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Hi DJ For those tring DBDesigner, it took me a few hours to understand when the program creates FK in the table (as shown in Larry's images), and why it *deletes* that field when I delete the association :) I had exactly the same issue. It took me a while to find the setting that prepends the table name. Once I had that, then it all worked fine. had me confused for a while though! Regards, Langdon --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/4/07, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Larry had shown something similar he had done to me - perhaps he can share it with the list. The best examples that I have to show is the one I designed for the Bakery and a simple blog. With the Bakery I noted all associations in both directions. http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/bakery.png http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/bakery.pdf In this design I used simple notation. http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/blog.png http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/blog.pdf I also wrote a script that will parse the DbDesigner xml file and create a list of associations . Right now it only works when associations are noted as the Bakery. If I find the time I may convert it to use the simple notation used in the blog diagrams above. http://bin.cakephp.org/saved/131 -- /** * @author Larry E. Masters * @var string $userName * @param string $realName * @returns string aka PhpNut * @access public */ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/5/07, Larry E. Masters aka PhpNut [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1/4/07, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Larry had shown something similar he had done to me - perhaps he can share it with the list. The best examples that I have to show is the one I designed for the Bakery and a simple blog. With the Bakery I noted all associations in both directions. Thanks Larry. Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Thanks Larry, that's excellent! I knew there had to be a better way. After seeing this, I realize that you do formally define foreign keys in the database. For clarification, what harm is there if you don't actually define FK's in the database? It appears that CakePHP doesn't actually need them to be defined in the DB, it figures it out just by convention or any convention overrides declared in the Model definition. Is this just bad DB design to not define the FK's in the tables? Will it have negative affects on the MySQL DB performance? I suppose if you were to take the DB outside the context of the CakePHP application (or even if you did any manual SQL statements), not having FK constraints in the table could results in orphaned records if you were deleting records. I guess I kinda answered that question for myself, but I'd still like to know if CakePHP relies on FK definitions in any way instead of just inferring them. Thanks again! I'll now try using DBDesigner in the CakePHP fashion and take advantage of Larry's script. Good stuff. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/5/07, CraZyLeGs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where is that Forum diagram again.. This one? http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.png http://phpnut.cakephp.org/img/roundtable.pdf -- /** * @author Larry E. Masters * @var string $userName * @param string $realName * @returns string aka PhpNut * @access public */ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/5/07, NOSLOW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this just bad DB design to not define the FK's in the tables? Will it have negative affects on the MySQL DB performance? Hi there, I assume, by FK's you actually mean PK's acting as FK's (since the default engine MyISAM doesn't support FK's). If so then if you don't define them in the tables you may end up with duplicate rows, no indexes and all the other problems associated with a lack of PK's. HTH, Sonic --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Thanks for that post Larry, I am checking out DbDesigner. Should be a good addition to my tool set. Regards, Langdon I also wrote a script that will parse the DbDesigner xml file and create a list of associations . Right now it only works when associations are noted as the Bakery. If I find the time I may convert it to use the simple notation used in the blog diagrams above. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Langdon Stevenson wrote: I currently use MySQLFront on WinXP. Works ok, but could be better. Regards, Langdon I used mysqlfront too when i was on winblows, it's a nice program. but unless we're talking about 2 programs sharing the same name: 1)it has been discontinued due to legal issues 2)it's more suited to data-management (just like phpmyadmin) so Tarique i know the problem very well, as i have it myself. dbdesigner is deprecated and mysql workbench is still in a very early stage. (alhtough it's based on dbdesigner) You might want to give the modeling tool umbrello a try, it can do ER and it can export to various languages, iirc there are also some eclipse plugins available, but afaik they aren't very good. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/4/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to give the modeling tool umbrello a try, it can do ER and it can export to various languages, I was trying to avoid going the UML way :) iirc there are also some eclipse plugins available, but afaik they aren't very good. Again its more more suited to data management and query design and not too great at that Thanks Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
I use Azzurri plugin for Eclipse. It's good enough for me. The only thing that I miss is generating statements to populate tables with some default values. That feature exists in DBDesigner. Otherwise, I'm quite satisfied with what it can do. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/4/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might want to give the modeling tool umbrello a try, it can do ER Tried Umbrello - it can just about do ER and very clumsy at that. Thanks Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/4/07, sawa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Azzurri plugin for Eclipse. It's good enough for me. The only Had not tried it before - but it does not let you define a 1:n relationship Thanks Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/4/07, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, This is a bit off topic - so apologies for that. Which ER / DB design tools do you folks use or rather do you use an ER tool at all? I use a whiteboard, dry-erase markers and paper to do my database design work. Sounds like I'm in the minority. ;) -- Chris Hartjes My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! rallyhat.com - digitial photo scavenger hunt @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
If I have a lot of db design work to to I'll use my design tool - EnterpriseArchitect ( http://www.sparxsystems.com ) - since it works for PHP classes as well. Freeware wise - Oracle's TOAD tool is available free for MySQL - and it looks pretty good. http://www.quest.com/toad_for_mysql/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
Hi I have used DBDesigner to design the database tables. But for managing mysql databases, theres nothing like sqlYOG. it is not free. For a while, I was working with the trial edition, and it rocks. cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
On 1/4/07, NOSLOW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In CakePHP, your database relationships are by convention, and are defined in the Model, not formally in the database. Agreed but when working in a team, specifically a distributed team, it is great to be able to give a Diagram (and related SQL) where relationships says something like Country hasMany State and State belongsTo Country to someone who will then have a head start in baking the app. Larry had shown something similar he had done to me - perhaps he can share it with the list. Paper / Whiteboards are great when you are your own master - I love to use those notepads with small grids and a supply of sharpened pencils of various colors on personal projects. My personal choice for managing MySQL is phpMyAdmin - I really wish the phpMyDesigner which is to be integrated in the next version matures well. Cheers Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
ER Tools
Hello All, This is a bit off topic - so apologies for that. Which ER / DB design tools do you folks use or rather do you use an ER tool at all? I use DBdesginer from fabForce but #1 it is no longer maintained #2 it stopped working on my Linux machines (code too old) Have been unable to find a good open source replacement. MySQL workbench is too unstable and mostly unusable. OTOH the phpMyDesigner which is now integrated in the latest devel of phpMyAdmin looks cool and promising but it will be some time before it can be used for anything other than playing around Thanks in advance for all the replies Cheers Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: ER Tools
I am currently using ERStudio by Embarcadero. However, its support of MySQL 5 data types is a bit lacking. On 1/4/07, Dr. Tarique Sani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, This is a bit off topic - so apologies for that. Which ER / DB design tools do you folks use or rather do you use an ER tool at all? I use DBdesginer from fabForce but #1 it is no longer maintained #2 it stopped working on my Linux machines (code too old) Have been unable to find a good open source replacement. MySQL workbench is too unstable and mostly unusable. OTOH the phpMyDesigner which is now integrated in the latest devel of phpMyAdmin looks cool and promising but it will be some time before it can be used for anything other than playing around Thanks in advance for all the replies Cheers Tarique -- = PHP Applications for E-Biz: http://www.sanisoft.com Cheesecake-Photoblog: http://cheesecake-photoblog.org = -- Nobody in nowhere --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
