Re: Code Style Fanaticism
Sorry to butt in but, If the bakery code is intelligently to recognise different styles then would it be much of a job to automatically reformat the submitted code rather than have the user do it? Couldn't it call the indent program via the command line? Just wondering cause I also prefer the nesting-scope-obvious opening bracket position. Cheers, Sonic --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Code Style Fanaticism
Hi! I just read the Coding standards for Cake, I guess CakePHP take the words of the prophets KR + tab. That's OK... It's been around for 30 or 40 years... I like it. BTW, Jeff, perhaps you should look also look on this matter as a Convention over configuration point of view... If you want to stick to CakePHP, you'd better follow even the style conventions, imho. Dérico Filho On 25 set, 13:53, Brent Rieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man I guess I'm really not getting my point across. This will be my last try, I promise :) Code formatting debates are religious debates, there's no point in having them and no matter what you say you'll never change anyone's opinion. Indent provides a way around (or through?) these stupid debates so you can do something more fun. Yes, the Cake people could just use indent on submitted code too. But no, I don't think the language on their submission instruction pages is scary or a stumbling block. The lack of complete documentation is a *much* larger stumbling block in my opinion. --Brent --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Code Style Fanaticism
Brent, Thanks for the advice, I've been on *nix for what seems like forever, and I've known and used indent before. But I'm sure others will be able to use the advice as well. Man I guess I'm really not getting my point across. This will be my last try, I promise :) I mean the submission pages (admitedly for the bakery and not the mailing list or other aspects of the Cake PHP world), has language that gave me pause due to an error in the posting software. And if I hadn't had some time to reformat, and look around, I might not have posted. But you see, I'm a stuborn coder. And I knew I had something pretty 'Ok' to share. Not earth-shattering, but also not represented by the existing code base. My point is, not all people are familiar with the indent program, not all people have the time to re-indent by hand, and the verbage on the submission page looks forbidding, this is in contrast to the fact that the documentation seems to ignore the CakePHP style guidelines, particularly as concerns opening bracket position. (Though also Trinary If and a few parenthesis positions) So the question is, Don't you think that the language as presented might be a stumbling block for those who might otherwise submit code? I ask this in light of the fact that other places on the pages, the Bakery says that authors get a chance to learn and grow by working with experienced cakers. To me, and apparently that's only to me :) , that seems like a dichotomy, saying one thing and doing another. Do what I say, not what I do. :) Ah well, I'll asume that if it's this hard to make the point, then I didn't really have a solid worthwhile point to make. I'll take my peice of cake, sit in the corner and stop trying to change the world :) Jeff On Sep 24, 11:14 pm, Brent Rieck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Brown wrote: So , am I confused? Is there some dichotomy? Would my code have been accepted with the nesting-scope-obvious opening bracket position? If you're on a unix-like machine look into the indent program, the code formatting problem was solved in 1976. If you're on windows I'm sure there's some equivalent tool out there (or the cygwin stuff may have it included). With indent, once you've figured out the set program options to render the code how you like to work with it and the set of options to render it how whomever you're submitting to likes to see it, it'll take fractions of seconds to reformat the code to and from either and everybody will be happy. --Brent --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Code Style Fanaticism
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Man I guess I'm really not getting my point across. This will be my last try, I promise :) Code formatting debates are religious debates, there's no point in having them and no matter what you say you'll never change anyone's opinion. Indent provides a way around (or through?) these stupid debates so you can do something more fun. Yes, the Cake people could just use indent on submitted code too. But no, I don't think the language on their submission instruction pages is scary or a stumbling block. The lack of complete documentation is a *much* larger stumbling block in my opinion. --Brent --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Code Style Fanaticism
I cannot speak to the problems you had with getting your code posted,
but the Cake standards are basically PEAR standards... which have been
around for a long time, I think.
I believe in a large coding community it is important to have these
standards. One isn't necessarily right making another wrong, it's just
style and preference... and consistency. I think that's the spirit in
which Cake has put forward these code standards.
Jeff Brown wrote:
Dear list
I just started working with cake last week, I like what I see. So
I wanted to contribute. I began by taking an easy, simple and
very clear Helper module, based on code I've used in 10 or 12 apps
before, though not built for the cake or even a mvc hierarchy.
I signed up in the bakery and submitted an article detailing the simple
and useful little bit. After I saw that the article wasn't even
visible to me after the submit, I looked to see if I was doing
something wrong. I mean the article didn't even show up under my
'My Account' page.
After a careful reading of the 'The
Bakery Article Guidelines' http://bakery.cakephp.org/pages/guidelines
And in particular the one paragraph on 'Coding
Guidelines' with it's link to: https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Developement/CodingStandards
I came to the conclusion that the Cake 'team' was full of code nazis,
or at least one such was in charge of the articles.
Don't get me wrong, I have coded to a standard that is as clear
(although I honestly find it clearer than the listed style).
But as many religions on code styling have swayed the programing world
every few years, I've stuck to a best-practices style that is
acceptable to corporate and private enterprises, is clear, concise and
full of comments. However, the verbage on this site seems to
suggest that no matter the value of my contribution, no matter the
clarity of my code, my article was to be ignored.
quote from http://bakery.cakephp.org/pages/guidelines
This is why all
articles submitted to The Bakery
must meet all requirements listed on this page.
Now, my personal and business coding style is not very far removed from
the listed one in almost all points. However, particularly
the section I find particularly odious is the control block section the
"standards" say:
http://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Developement/CodingStandards#Controlstructures
However, I'll expand on the style to show my contention
Example:
class
MyHelper extends Helper {
function
myFunction($arg) {
if ((expr_1) || (expr_2 )) {
//
action_1;
} elseif (!(expr_3) (expr_4)) {
//
action_2;
} else {
// default_action;
}
return true;
}
}
Where I would put:
class MyHelper
extends Helper
{
function
myFunction($args)
{
if ((expr_1) || (expr_2 ))
{
// action_1;
}
elseif ((!(expr_3))
(expr_4))
{
// action_2;
}
else
{
// default_action;
}
return true;
}
}
As you can see the issue I have is with the "nesting-scope-hiding"
opening bracket position, as I strongly prefer the
"nesting-scope-obvious" opening bracket position.
I tried subitting it again, just now, directly from the "My Account"
page, and this time it was accepted. Maybe the firt time was some
small bug in submitting from a different page (the Code-Helpers
link http://bakery.cakephp.org/articles/add/8
on page: http://bakery.cakephp.org/categories/view/3)?
Anyway, in my
actual summision (yet to be approved but hopefully available soon
at: http://bakery.cakephp.org/articles/view/color-helper-random),
I reformatted it to use the demanded style.
The whole reasong I'm writing this note to the list though is because
in closing all my windows down, I found multiple examples of code using
what I call the "nesting-scope-obvious" opening bracket position: where
opening brackets go on a line by themselves at exactly the same indent
as their control structure, and the closing brackets.
So , am I confused? Is there some dichotomy? Would my code
have been accepted with the "nesting-scope-obvious" opening bracket
position?
I think that in many cases, the style I advocate has saved me crucial
developing time. But if I must rewrite my code into this standard
in order to submit, then I will only submit very small things.
Could the coding style docs include the "nesting-scope-obvious" opening
bracket position, even if the other is prefered?
Jeff
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Re: Code Style Fanaticism
On 9/24/07, Jeff Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After a careful reading of the 'The Bakery Article Guidelines' http://bakery.cakephp.org/pages/guidelines And in particular the one paragraph on 'Coding Guidelines' with it's link to: https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Developement/CodingStandards I came to the conclusion that the Cake 'team' was full of code nazis, or at least one such was in charge of the articles. Well, coding standards are like team chemistry in professional sports: they only matter when something goes wrong. Now, I can appreciate that you think your own coding standard is better than what CakePHP is advocating, and that's fine. But if you want to contribute things, then there are some rules that need to be followed. I remember my first contribution to CakePHP was ripped apart and reformatted by PhpNut. Didn't like my tab stops in my editor or something, but that's his right as the lead developer. Childish? Maybe. Given the level of arguments I've seen about tabs vs. spaces and 4 spaces to a tab vs. 8 spaces I have decided that adhering to a code standard for a project is just another level of self-discipline that you choose to adhere to or suffer the consequences of your peers. If your only reason to not submit to the bakery because you feel that the core development team is (to use your own words) full of code nazis, well, I think it says more about you than the coding standard itself. As one of the chosen few who can peek at articles before they are approved, I see nothing wrong with your submission. But then again I'm not a code nazi. -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation http://www.cakedevelopment.com My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Code Style Fanaticism
On Sep 24, 2007, at 2:16 PM, Chris Hartjes wrote: On 9/24/07, Jeff Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After a careful reading of the 'The Bakery Article Guidelines' http://bakery.cakephp.org/pages/guidelines And in particular the one paragraph on 'Coding Guidelines' with it's link to: https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Developement/CodingStandards I came to the conclusion that the Cake 'team' was full of code nazis, or at least one such was in charge of the articles. Well, coding standards are like team chemistry in professional sports: they only matter when something goes wrong. Now, I can appreciate that you think your own coding standard is better than what CakePHP is advocating, and that's fine. But if you want to contribute things, then there are some rules that need to be followed. I remember my first contribution to CakePHP was ripped apart and reformatted by PhpNut. Didn't like my tab stops in my editor or something, but that's his right as the lead developer. More than right vs. wrong, its simply a matter of consistency. Having all the code examples in Bakery articles look exactly the same makes things easier to digest, imho. -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Code Style Fanaticism
Chris, On rereading my message, I think my use of 'code nazis' was too harsh. (Although I was trying to make light of it somewhat, And I did refer to myself as a code-nazi as well in one of my pre-submit versions of my note, but I seem to have cut that out... :) What I was trying to get across, is that the verbage on the summision page looks exceedingly strict, more strict than it seems it really is, since other articles ARE there with my prefered intenting style. I get what you mean about 'Team Spirit' and agree whole-heartedly, which is why I maintain my standards, and have done so at every company and personal project I've worked on for years. Again, I'm not saying having the style is wrong. Because I think it's right. I'm saying having the note on the site almost kept me from submitting the article, when the first try failed. I decided to post with the rewrite, only because It was so small. For example, even adding the word recommended in one or two places would be acceptable. I mean, if I'm getting some code from the Bakery for use in an application I'm writing, I'll certainly take it as is. I'm not going to go reformat it, unless, as you mention, I run into some trouble. Joshua, I first looked at PHP in 1997, using it to build and modify a very small application. As the syntax is very similar to the C/C++ body of languages, I applied my standards to it with great success. This was all prior to PEAR comming around, and more importantly before the PEAR standards were even vocallized. I'd thought about mentioning it in my first note, but didn't. I'm not going to try and change every php project in the world. I'm not even trying to change every cake project in the world. I just think you can read either code style equally, why declare that all other won't even be considered? Just looking to prevent others out there from not submitting code based on that warning. Peace, Jeff On Sep 24, 2:16 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/24/07, Jeff Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After a careful reading of the 'The Bakery Article Guidelines' http://bakery.cakephp.org/pages/guidelines And in particular the one paragraph on 'Coding Guidelines' with it's link to: https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Developement/CodingStandards I came to the conclusion that the Cake 'team' was full of code nazis, or at least one such was in charge of the articles. Well, coding standards are like team chemistry in professional sports: they only matter when something goes wrong. Now, I can appreciate that you think your own coding standard is better than what CakePHP is advocating, and that's fine. But if you want to contribute things, then there are some rules that need to be followed. I remember my first contribution to CakePHP was ripped apart and reformatted by PhpNut. Didn't like my tab stops in my editor or something, but that's his right as the lead developer. Childish? Maybe. Given the level of arguments I've seen about tabs vs. spaces and 4 spaces to a tab vs. 8 spaces I have decided that adhering to a code standard for a project is just another level of self-discipline that you choose to adhere to or suffer the consequences of your peers. If your only reason to not submit to the bakery because you feel that the core development team is (to use your own words) full of code nazis, well, I think it says more about you than the coding standard itself. As one of the chosen few who can peek at articles before they are approved, I see nothing wrong with your submission. But then again I'm not a code nazi. -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporationhttp://www.cakedevelopment.com My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheKeyboard -http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
