Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
Speed, simplicity, clarity. We feel that a model object in the view will only result in misuse. We have helpers that allow you to handle the arrays any way you need, as well as various callbacks to allow you to format the data that comes back from the model. The benefits to having a model object available in the view seem small, while the potential problems and heft of moving those objects around seem much larger. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
My firm is new to CakePHP, and we're struggling with a piece of Cake Theory. Perhaps you can help -- When you do a Find or a FindAll, why do you get back a big, nested array? When I do Widget-FindAll() why do I not get back an array of Widget objects? Isn't that what a model is for? We want to use models in our views. So we can write a method on our model, and then call that in a view to do something. This seems conceptually correct to us, and we can't understand the point of having a model then forcing developers to work with nested array structures that have no relationship to the models they're supposed to represent. Can anyone explain this to us? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their choice of frameworks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
Thanks for the reply. We couldn't disagree more strenuously, and we think you're wrong beyond belief in your reasoning, but we appreciate the response. Deane On Jan 4, 10:17 am, gwoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speed, simplicity, clarity. We feel that a model object in the view will only result in misuse. We have helpers that allow you to handle the arrays any way you need, as well as various callbacks to allow you to format the data that comes back from the model. The benefits to having a model object available in the view seem small, while the potential problems and heft of moving those objects around seem much larger. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
Your opinion is wrong. - Nate Abele, 2007 On Jan 4, 12:11 pm, Deane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply. We couldn't disagree more strenuously, and we think you're wrong beyond belief in your reasoning, but we appreciate the response. Deane On Jan 4, 10:17 am, gwoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speed, simplicity, clarity. We feel that a model object in the view will only result in misuse. We have helpers that allow you to handle the arrays any way you need, as well as various callbacks to allow you to format the data that comes back from the model. The benefits to having a model object available in the view seem small, while the potential problems and heft of moving those objects around seem much larger. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
One time gwoo wrote some quick code that would make find return objects instead of arrays. I turned it into a behavior. Seemed to work pretty well at the time. It should still work (not sure though, because of all the recent changes to cake core). Give it a try. http://bin.cakephp.org/saved/24245 In any case there are ways to get things to behave the way you want them with Objects being returned. Cake (for the most part) is flexible like that. On Jan 4, 12:11 pm, Deane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply. We couldn't disagree more strenuously, and we think you're wrong beyond belief in your reasoning, but we appreciate the response. Deane On Jan 4, 10:17 am, gwoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speed, simplicity, clarity. We feel that a model object in the view will only result in misuse. We have helpers that allow you to handle the arrays any way you need, as well as various callbacks to allow you to format the data that comes back from the model. The benefits to having a model object available in the view seem small, while the potential problems and heft of moving those objects around seem much larger. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
Oh, and Deane, I forgot to ask: is that the royal we or the managerial we? On Jan 4, 12:11 pm, Deane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply. We couldn't disagree more strenuously, and we think you're wrong beyond belief in your reasoning, but we appreciate the response. Deane On Jan 4, 10:17 am, gwoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speed, simplicity, clarity. We feel that a model object in the view will only result in misuse. We have helpers that allow you to handle the arrays any way you need, as well as various callbacks to allow you to format the data that comes back from the model. The benefits to having a model object available in the view seem small, while the potential problems and heft of moving those objects around seem much larger. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
On Jan 4, 2008 4:28 PM, nate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and Deane, I forgot to ask: is that the royal we or the managerial we? On Jan 4, 12:11pm, Deane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply. We couldn't disagree more strenuously, and we think you're wrong beyond belief in your reasoning, but we appreciate the response. I think that was explained from the beginning: My firm is new to CakePHP, and we're struggling with ... I too initially was skeptical of the lack of objects returned. However, after a few days poking around, I'm pretty satisfied with the way things work. Not having access to object methods in the view doesn't seem all that big a deal considering that it's really not the place to be altering data and any data that's required can be added to the array in the controller if not placed there already by find() and friends. brian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
I'd also add this: while its not strictly OO behavior, I like the fact that Model searches return pure data, and not other models/objects. It helps reinforce the viewpoint of having the view incapable of performing any meaningful business logic. If model returned other models and those were passed to your views, it would be way too temping to access methods of those models (which would likely have business logic behind them) ... and suddenly meaningful business logic is quickly and easily introduced into the view. Instead, those desired model methods should be encapsulated into more generic helpers for your view (or specific ones, if you have very specific data manipulation relevant only to a single model), and accessed that way. Sure, you _could_ put business logic in your helpers, but that is conscious design decision to break convention - as opposed to an unconscious design decision to access business-logic methods that are in the models you desire to pass to your views. Obviously YMMV, but as others have stated, its relatively easy enough to change the default behavior to align with your needs. So far my limited use of Cake has led to to believe that the designers have erred on the side of enforcing convention (both syntactic and design) whenever possible. And so far, I don't disagree with the convention, so I like the design choices. :) But if/when I do, I won't have an issues changing the default behavior to match my preference/ need. -r --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Why doesn't Find* return a group of model objects?
I can't wait until Christian (Jippy) does his soap opera dissection of this thread in next weeks' CakePHP weekly summaries :) On Jan 5, 1:05 pm, Deane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gwoo: Let me retract my remarks. I was frustrated, and what I wrote was insulting. You have my apologies. Deane On Jan 4, 11:27 am, gwoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their choice of frameworks. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
