Re: [Callers] Diversity (was Shutdown-related dances?)
[ruthless snippage] On Fri, Oct 04, 2013, Greg McKenzie wrote: > > The politics of a dance community are plenty to deal with in any > case. As it stands we have to deal with a diverse group with vastly > different ideas of where our particular dance tradition is headed--or, > for that matter, where it came from. As Erik pointed out, we actually are not all that diverse on a number of axes, and I haven't seen much discussion about increasing diversity in the contra community, at least since I joined this list in January. (Which I'm somewhat sensitive about due to my involvement in diversity for Open Source.) Not that I feel it's really my place to push hard on this as a newbie caller, nor do I have much time/energy to push from the dancer side, but I think it's reasonable to point out that Greg is at least somewhat overstating the case. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/ <*> <*> <*> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
Re: [Callers] Shutdown-related dances?
I agree with your position on theme programming. I have always seen that as a
way to avoid putting any real thought into program development.
I do occasionally include a dance where the name might be something appropriate
for the season or event - but only if it fits well into the program for the
rest of the evening. One such dance per evening is about my limit.
Mac McKeever
From: Greg McKenzie
To: Caller's discussion list
Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Shutdown-related dances?
Folks,
I think Chris is right. For me contra dance is about connecting with
others I may not have much else in common with. That's why I worked so
hard to organize three citizen diplomacy contra dance tours to the (former)
Soviet Union. It's about making a visceral, human connection and finding
community with a diverse group.
I am also, generally, very skeptical of the idea of "theme dance
evenings." I would rather the caller focus on making sure the evening
"works" as a social event. Adding the "theme" requirement to the
programming process is unlikely to make that task easier. The "name" of a
dance is something I seldom consider in my programming decisions. But if
someone is hell-bent on inflicting a "theme evening" on the dancers it
could, at least, reduce the pain somewhat if they have lots of dances to
choose from.
The politics of a dance community are plenty to deal with in any case. As
it stands we have to deal with a diverse group with vastly different ideas
of where our particular dance tradition is headed--or, for that matter,
where it came from. Lots of folks are pushing hard to move some traditions
in different directions--and I am one of them. That's something I think it
*is *useful to discuss. We need to keep those discussions civil and
respectful. But I hope that we can offer new or unconventional ideas about
those directions here. Discussions about our visions of what we are
creating when we call are often very enlightening to me.
I think such discussions could be very helpful here.
In Community,
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Erik Hoffman wrote:
> It is interesting. By in large, contra dancers tend to be on the liberal
> side of the spectrum. And, judging from this discussion, even the reasons
> for not bringing up current events are because we want to get away from the
> message ("denying people healthcare is so important that they'll shut down
> the government..."), not because we hold the opinion that "Obamacare is
> going to destroy America and everything we hold holy...".
>
> Though I tend to be on the extreme left, (like, I think of NPR as National
> Pentagon Radio...) and sometimes I can't help but comment by giving my
> dances titles like:
> There is No Way to Peace; Peace Is the Way
> Malcolm's X
> Black Wednesday (the day after Bush II's second stolen election...)
> and occasionally making comments, I want the dance to be a place where
> people of all political persuasions and colors are welcome.
>
> So, if a card carrying Tea-Partier, or an anti-women's-right-to-choose
> fundamentalist Christian, or a fundamentalist Muslim, or a nazi-white
> supremacist, or a flat-earther, or a "God made the Universe in 7 earth days
> exactly 10,000 years ago...", or a person with any sort of ridiculous
> belief structure comes to the dance, and finds joy in sharing the dance
> with others, I am happy they are there and don't want to drive them away
> with my ideology -- even though I'm Right!
>
> Granted, if this variety of people all showed up at the same time, we
> might end up with fireworks, and that is something we must watch out for.
> I once had to tell a man that his racist comments to a Black dancer were
> not welcome at the dance, and if we heard him say anything like that again,
> he would be immediately asked to leave. Still, if someone has those belief
> structures, and can come to the dance and not show them, it should be a
> chance for us to revel in the humanity of all, regardless of the ridiculous
> beliefs they -- or we -- might carry.
>
> So, I guess I'm saying that there should be at least a caution before
> extolling certain ideas from the podium. Let's find other places to carry
> out political and social discussions and keep the dance a place where we
> can connect with people and see beyond their beliefs and find their
> humanity.
>
> Now, it's back to our generally White, mostly liberal dance community...
>
> ~erik hoffman
> oakland, ca
>
> PS, if anyone wants to discuss things political, I'm happy to, but
> privately!
>
>
> On 10/4/2013 2:36 PM, Dave Casserly wrote:
>
>> I agree with Chris. It's a moot point, since the dance Sargon was asking
>> about is cancelled, but as a furloughed fed, I would rather not be
>> reminded
>> that half of our country thinks denying people heath care is so important
>> that they'll shut down the government to
Re: [Callers] Shutdown-related dances?
Folks,
I think Chris is right. For me contra dance is about connecting with
others I may not have much else in common with. That's why I worked so
hard to organize three citizen diplomacy contra dance tours to the (former)
Soviet Union. It's about making a visceral, human connection and finding
community with a diverse group.
I am also, generally, very skeptical of the idea of "theme dance
evenings." I would rather the caller focus on making sure the evening
"works" as a social event. Adding the "theme" requirement to the
programming process is unlikely to make that task easier. The "name" of a
dance is something I seldom consider in my programming decisions. But if
someone is hell-bent on inflicting a "theme evening" on the dancers it
could, at least, reduce the pain somewhat if they have lots of dances to
choose from.
The politics of a dance community are plenty to deal with in any case. As
it stands we have to deal with a diverse group with vastly different ideas
of where our particular dance tradition is headed--or, for that matter,
where it came from. Lots of folks are pushing hard to move some traditions
in different directions--and I am one of them. That's something I think it
*is *useful to discuss. We need to keep those discussions civil and
respectful. But I hope that we can offer new or unconventional ideas about
those directions here. Discussions about our visions of what we are
creating when we call are often very enlightening to me.
I think such discussions could be very helpful here.
In Community,
Greg McKenzie
West Coast, USA
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 4:05 PM, Erik Hoffman wrote:
> It is interesting. By in large, contra dancers tend to be on the liberal
> side of the spectrum. And, judging from this discussion, even the reasons
> for not bringing up current events are because we want to get away from the
> message ("denying people healthcare is so important that they'll shut down
> the government..."), not because we hold the opinion that "Obamacare is
> going to destroy America and everything we hold holy...".
>
> Though I tend to be on the extreme left, (like, I think of NPR as National
> Pentagon Radio...) and sometimes I can't help but comment by giving my
> dances titles like:
> There is No Way to Peace; Peace Is the Way
> Malcolm's X
> Black Wednesday (the day after Bush II's second stolen election...)
> and occasionally making comments, I want the dance to be a place where
> people of all political persuasions and colors are welcome.
>
> So, if a card carrying Tea-Partier, or an anti-women's-right-to-choose
> fundamentalist Christian, or a fundamentalist Muslim, or a nazi-white
> supremacist, or a flat-earther, or a "God made the Universe in 7 earth days
> exactly 10,000 years ago...", or a person with any sort of ridiculous
> belief structure comes to the dance, and finds joy in sharing the dance
> with others, I am happy they are there and don't want to drive them away
> with my ideology -- even though I'm Right!
>
> Granted, if this variety of people all showed up at the same time, we
> might end up with fireworks, and that is something we must watch out for.
> I once had to tell a man that his racist comments to a Black dancer were
> not welcome at the dance, and if we heard him say anything like that again,
> he would be immediately asked to leave. Still, if someone has those belief
> structures, and can come to the dance and not show them, it should be a
> chance for us to revel in the humanity of all, regardless of the ridiculous
> beliefs they -- or we -- might carry.
>
> So, I guess I'm saying that there should be at least a caution before
> extolling certain ideas from the podium. Let's find other places to carry
> out political and social discussions and keep the dance a place where we
> can connect with people and see beyond their beliefs and find their
> humanity.
>
> Now, it's back to our generally White, mostly liberal dance community...
>
> ~erik hoffman
> oakland, ca
>
> PS, if anyone wants to discuss things political, I'm happy to, but
> privately!
>
>
> On 10/4/2013 2:36 PM, Dave Casserly wrote:
>
>> I agree with Chris. It's a moot point, since the dance Sargon was asking
>> about is cancelled, but as a furloughed fed, I would rather not be
>> reminded
>> that half of our country thinks denying people heath care is so important
>> that they'll shut down the government to do it. Reminders are all over
>> the
>> place in this town. It'd be nice to be able to go somewhere that isn't
>> reminding me I'm not going to get a paycheck anytime soon.
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Chris Page wrote:
>>
>> While I'm amused at some of the suggestions here, I'd offer a contrary
>>> opinion. If I were going to a contra dance, I'd want to be in a space
>>> where I could get away from all this political noise, and just enjoy
>>> being at the dance community, without the reminders of all the
>>> political divisions.
Re: [Callers] Shutdown-related dances?
It is interesting. By in large, contra dancers tend to be on the
liberal side of the spectrum. And, judging from this discussion, even
the reasons for not bringing up current events are because we want to
get away from the message ("denying people healthcare is so important
that they'll shut down the government..."), not because we hold the
opinion that "Obamacare is going to destroy America and everything we
hold holy...".
Though I tend to be on the extreme left, (like, I think of NPR as
National Pentagon Radio...) and sometimes I can't help but comment by
giving my dances titles like:
There is No Way to Peace; Peace Is the Way
Malcolm's X
Black Wednesday (the day after Bush II's second stolen election...)
and occasionally making comments, I want the dance to be a place where
people of all political persuasions and colors are welcome.
So, if a card carrying Tea-Partier, or an anti-women's-right-to-choose
fundamentalist Christian, or a fundamentalist Muslim, or a nazi-white
supremacist, or a flat-earther, or a "God made the Universe in 7 earth
days exactly 10,000 years ago...", or a person with any sort of
ridiculous belief structure comes to the dance, and finds joy in sharing
the dance with others, I am happy they are there and don't want to drive
them away with my ideology -- even though I'm Right!
Granted, if this variety of people all showed up at the same time, we
might end up with fireworks, and that is something we must watch out
for. I once had to tell a man that his racist comments to a Black
dancer were not welcome at the dance, and if we heard him say anything
like that again, he would be immediately asked to leave. Still, if
someone has those belief structures, and can come to the dance and not
show them, it should be a chance for us to revel in the humanity of all,
regardless of the ridiculous beliefs they -- or we -- might carry.
So, I guess I'm saying that there should be at least a caution before
extolling certain ideas from the podium. Let's find other places to
carry out political and social discussions and keep the dance a place
where we can connect with people and see beyond their beliefs and find
their humanity.
Now, it's back to our generally White, mostly liberal dance community...
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
PS, if anyone wants to discuss things political, I'm happy to, but
privately!
On 10/4/2013 2:36 PM, Dave Casserly wrote:
I agree with Chris. It's a moot point, since the dance Sargon was asking
about is cancelled, but as a furloughed fed, I would rather not be reminded
that half of our country thinks denying people heath care is so important
that they'll shut down the government to do it. Reminders are all over the
place in this town. It'd be nice to be able to go somewhere that isn't
reminding me I'm not going to get a paycheck anytime soon.
-Dave
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Chris Page wrote:
While I'm amused at some of the suggestions here, I'd offer a contrary
opinion. If I were going to a contra dance, I'd want to be in a space
where I could get away from all this political noise, and just enjoy
being at the dance community, without the reminders of all the
political divisions.
-Chris Page
San Diego
(who has contra danced with Republicans)
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Sargon de Jesus
wrote:
Hello fellow callers,
So, in the event that I call, I'd love some ideas for dances
themed/titled
around shutdowns, openings, bickering, childishness, etc. What have you
guys got? Any suggestions are happily welcome!
___
Callers mailing list
call...@sharedweight.net
http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
Re: [Callers] Shutdown-related dances?
I agree with Chris. It's a moot point, since the dance Sargon was asking about is cancelled, but as a furloughed fed, I would rather not be reminded that half of our country thinks denying people heath care is so important that they'll shut down the government to do it. Reminders are all over the place in this town. It'd be nice to be able to go somewhere that isn't reminding me I'm not going to get a paycheck anytime soon. -Dave On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Chris Page wrote: > While I'm amused at some of the suggestions here, I'd offer a contrary > opinion. If I were going to a contra dance, I'd want to be in a space > where I could get away from all this political noise, and just enjoy > being at the dance community, without the reminders of all the > political divisions. > > -Chris Page > San Diego > (who has contra danced with Republicans) > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Sargon de Jesus > wrote: > > Hello fellow callers, > > > > So, in the event that I call, I'd love some ideas for dances > themed/titled > > around shutdowns, openings, bickering, childishness, etc. What have you > > guys got? Any suggestions are happily welcome! > > > ___ > Callers mailing list > call...@sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761
