[Callers] FW: Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Erik Hoffman via Callers]

I agree with Yoyo and others: so much of the order I teach figures depends on 
the dancers and the gig. Having just done a couple one-night-stand gigs, I had 
the realization that I use the same formula more or less for all dances: Can I 
teach a dance in less than 5 minutes--or 8 at the most--and start with the 
music. Hence, for rank beginners, start with circles, into the center, swings, 
and promenades--I can do all this with music and no talking... Then the 
Virginia Reel. Then onto what dancers are ready for. On rare occasions, hands 
four dances. Usually not...

If I'm teaching after doing a beginners' workshop, I do an extremely glossary 
dance that covers the figures we drilled in the workshop: Lady's Chain, R 
Thru, Balance & Swing. The beginners have had a chance to walk it and learn it, 
then, when the dance starts, the experienced dancers have no problem helping. 

ABC
Improper
A1 Neighbor Balance & Swing
A2 Women Chain over & back
B1 R & L Thru over & back --OR--
B1 R & L Thru; Half Promenade
B2 Long Lines Forward & Back; Ones Swing

The OR B2 depends on how well dancers learned the R Thru. The challenge on 
the R Thru is mostly for the women, who are naturally steered the wrong way. 
Men can help, of course, in the pull by, but that takes awareness--something I 
usually point out in a workshop. And noting other comments, I have come to 
usually teach the Right & Left Thru first, the Chain second. I've done it both 
ways, and, of course, works or it doesn't...

Although I do think of how people enter into the next figure, I often think if 
it as what kind of connection there is, and whether the position is ambiguous. 
I'll alter dances based on this. Like, another beginner dance is the slightly 
altered Nice Combination, by the late Gene Hubert:

Nice Combination (slightly altered):
Gene Hubert
A1 Neighbor Balance & Swing
A2 Down Hall Four in Line, Turn as Couples, Return, Fold to Circle
B1 Circle Left 3/4; Partner Swing
B2 Women Chain; Long Lines Forward & Back

The original ends with a B2 Women Chain, Star Left

Where a star starts and ends is a bit ambiguous until a dancer has internalized 
the bearings of the dance. So finding the next neighbor out of a mess of people 
possibly looking at their left hands in the center of the star is a challenge. 
Long lines forward and back has you connected to the previous neighbor and your 
next neighbor, and, if a mistake is made, is a bit easier to see where you're 
supposed to be. 

This lack of connection is what causes problems in things like a hey, where 
there is a milling about with no contact, and no sense of the bearings and 
characters like up, down, across, right, left, current neighbor, partner, etc.

If I'm calling to mostly beginners, and it's a regular contra series, I'll call 
Carlotta Wellington's "Taking Liberties with Jefferson"

Taking Liberties With Jefferson
Carlotta Wellington
Improper (or Proper--doesn't matter, though technically Improper)
A1 Circle Left; Star left (back to starting point)
A2 Ones Down Outside, Return, Step to Center making Line of Four with 
Twos--Ones in Center
B1 Down Hall Four in Line; Ones Arch, Twos Duck Through to end up above Ones, 
Return 2x2
 ("Twos in Front, Ones Behind)
B2 All Balance & Swing Partner, End facing a New Couple

I like Yoyo's dance below, and will start using it, too.

Could go on, but that's enough for now...

Erik Hoffman
 Oakland, CA

-Original Message-
From: Callers [mailto:callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Yoyo 
Zhou via Callers
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 1:25 PM
To: Luke Donforth 
Cc: Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
 wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for 
> new dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a 
> ladies chain for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a 
> specific dance, what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as 
> accessible as possible?
>
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?

Definitely for the first introduction to courtesy turn, just one chain ("half 
chain") and with neighbor.

My choice of dance depends on the crowd and what issues they are having, and 
whether the beginners have enough experienced neighbors to help them. For 
instance, sometimes they struggle to end a swing or courtesy turn on the 
correct side. Entering a courtesy turn from a swing (or long lines) is fine 
even if dancers don't end on the left/right correctly. Going from courtesy turn 
into a ladies allemande or do si do is also fine if they don't end on the 
left/right 

Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Don Veino via Callers]

Following this logic, where an on-time arrival is essential out of a star
it would be best to make it hands-across (H-A). In a H-A star, folks can
use a similar arm angle adjustment to vary the star circumference (and
resulting speed). Due to the configuration, there's less opportunity to
gently* influence star speed with the pack saddle/hand-on-wrist form.

BTW, in dances featuring a star where a pair drop out I mention there's no
need to shove your opposite away at disengagement - centrifugal force will
gently take care of it once you let go of them. This is a curious bit which
only seems to happen in this case - I've never received a parting shove
when an "everybody" H-A star breaks up, but there's always someone in the
line doing it in the drop out variant.

*I've witnessed some dancers "expediting" those ahead in a star using their
free palm applied to a shoulder or back. :(

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and
> make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware
> dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle
> left ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer.
> Want that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there
> early…

Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

[Read Weaver via Callers]

I’d say the place where the timing on circle 3/4 is crucial is when it’s circle 
3/4 and pass through to the next. Either this move is being called more 
frequently or it’s being done (make that “done”) as 8+0 more frequently than 
was true up until a few years ago, because as a dancer I run in to bad timing 
with it a lot more than I used to. I’d urge callers to either avoid dances that 
end with this, or explicitly teach it as 6+2 in the walk through, and again 
while calling as needed. It invariably leads to many many instances of starting 
the next move (with a new couple) late, either everyone arriving late or some 
arriving late and some on time.

Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org

> On Aug 21, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers 
>  wrote:
> ...
>  Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference
> ...
> At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing someone 
> is a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but let dancers 
> do whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring balance, California 
> twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4.
>  
> It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and 
> make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware 
> dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle left 
> ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer. Want 
> that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there early…
>  

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Cheryl Joyal via Callers]

This is one of my favorites too!!

Cheryl Joyal
630-667-3284

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Bob Green via Callers 
 wrote:

The dance I like for introducing the ladies chain, if I have a band that will 
work with me on tempo, is Carpet Vectors by Robert Cromartie.  The tempo has to 
stay on the slow side so that the circles left and right are not rushed. The 
sequence is a circle left and chain to your partner, then circle right and 
chain back to your neighbor. 
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/344-carpet-vectors-by-robert-cromarties-duple-improper

Bob Green

> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
>  wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new 
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies chain 
> for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific dance, 
> what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as possible?
> 
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up? 
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
> 
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I 
> think about:
> 
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't whoop 
> and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion would 
> snowball. 
> 
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced 
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new 
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new 
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance 
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to 
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to 
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner. 
> 
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not 
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2 chain->star, 
> find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star is non-trivial 
> for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star wasn't followed by 
> the progression would work, but it's such a great progression when they're 
> ready for it; I don't see many of those dances. chain->star->left allemande 
> maybe? I do like long lines either before or after the chain as a set-up; but 
> not on both ends. I'm not sure which side of the chain the lines help more. 
> The Trip to ___ dances that end with chains and start with women walking in 
> to long wavy lines flow well, but I don't know that they're the best for 
> teaching chains, since the long wavy line is another new piece.
> 
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple 
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight have 
> to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly won't be 
> offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new thread ;-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> 
> -- 
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

___
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Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Bob Green via Callers]

The dance I like for introducing the ladies chain, if I have a band that
will work with me on tempo, is *Carpet Vectors *by Robert Cromartie.  The
tempo has to stay on the slow side so that the circles left and right are
not rushed. The sequence is a circle left and chain to your partner, then
circle right and chain back to your neighbor.
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/344-carpet-vectors-by-robert-cromarties-duple-improper

Bob Green

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
> chain for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific
> dance, what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
> possible?
>
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
>
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
> think about:
>
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
> whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
> would snowball.
>
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
>
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
> chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star
> is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
> wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
> progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
> chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
> after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which side
> of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
> chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but I
> don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
> line is another new piece.
>
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
> have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
> won't be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
> thread ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

What Maia listed is exactly how I teach the courtesy-turn moves. (I wonder
if Maia got it from me... I think I stole it as a combination from Peter
Stix and Jack Mitchell).

Without a beginner lesson, I teach the courtesy-turn in place, then add the
pull-by to the front of it. This also works to quickly teach a chain when
the gents role is doing it. ;)

My favorite basic chain-teach dances involve chaining to a neighbor*:
Baby Rose, David Kaynor
A Nice Combination, Gene Hubert
The Missing Piece, Bronwyn Woods (which may also go by another name. Chain
to balance, Petronellas)
Simplicity Swing, Becky Hill (only if the this is like, the third dance,
since it's a busy dance)
and mine, Mistakes Happen; Have Fun (I put in all of my beginner lesson
basic ingredients in it: circle, Alle N, star, chain, 2 swings)

Best,
Ron

* Unless the crowd is 99% experienced and I know new dancers are not
dancing with each other, then I may do it with a chain-to-partner.

On Aug 23, 2016 1:12 PM, "Maia McCormick via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Real interesting discussion! My two cents on the order of teaching: I've
> been having good luck lately with teaching in the following order--
> 1) promenade the ring
> 2) turn around to promenade the opposite direction (lady walks forward and
> gent walks back, i.e. CCW rotation--get everyone used to turning in the
> right direction)
> 3) promenade across the set ("gents, identify your own left shoulder. Now
> identify that other gent's left shoulder. That's how you're going to pass
> each other")
> 4) R/L through *with a demo*
> 5) ladies chain
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Aahz via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
>> >
>> > Just a note: I always teach the right and left through. It is a
>> > simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much sense
>> > for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers
>> > are crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with
>> > the dancer directly across, then left-hands on the side and you
>> > courteously help each other turn via a courtesy turn.
>>
>> Most of my teaching has been in a square dance context, but I teach Pass
>> Thru, Courtesy Turn before I teach R Thru.  And I teach sashayed
>> Courtesy Turn -- probably wouldn't bother with that in a contra context.
>>
>> There's a regular argument in the square dance community about whether
>> it's better to teach the handed version or no-hands version of calls
>> first (e.g. California Twirl vs Partner Trade).  I overall favor the
>> handed calls first because it's better body flow and the guide makes it
>> easier to learn the call.  However, I switch with R Thru because
>> learning how to take and drop hands while passing is a bit of a tricky
>> skill for many people (the biggest culprit usually being Square Thru).
>> --
>> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
>> http://rule6.info/
>>   <*>   <*>   <*>
>> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

It's also really similar to Tom Hinds' Frederick Contra (but only gents DSD
and order of moves is different) as well as Linda Leslie's Autumn Leaves
(but no allemande / chain).

I also dislike chain -> progress to balance; it never flows right for me as
a dancer. And it defeats the whole purpose of a glossary move dance if a
caller has to rely on doing the move (chain) in a way where one or both
role has to do it differently from almost every other time it's called.
Thus, what's the point of trying to teach a chain, if the caviat is "it'll
be different every other time".

The allemande to balance can be a reach, I agree. But since the do-si-do is
only really a 6 beat move, I like the allemande->do-si-do next progression
and think it's sufficiently glossary.

I just added Troxler to my box, but with the allemande variation.

Best,
Ron

On Aug 22, 2016 10:58 AM, "Luke Donforth via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Thank you to everyone who chimed in; fun to hear about all the versions
> and folks preferences.
>
> I, personally, am glad my (digital) box is big enough for all of the
> variations. I can see instances where I'd use any of them. With
> predominately new dancers on the first duple improper of the evening, I
> think the ladies on their own for an allemande would fare better than the
> "help" gents can give on the courtesy turn of a chain. I agree with Jack
> that chain->face new neighbor can be a tough transition. But Troxler's is
> straightforward enough that you could use it to focus on teaching a chain
> to new dancers; with a forgiving squishy entry into the DSD. And I haven't
> broken a hundred times yet with Nice Combination, but I'm sure I will.
>
> Thanks again. This discussion has even got me thinking about another thing
> I'd like to discuss on shared weight.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:56 AM, Bob Isaacs  wrote:
>
>> Hi All:
>>
>>
>> While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B progression, that
>> is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one.  More important is
>> how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in
>> B2b.  In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long
>> lines.  But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and
>> are on their own.  That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a
>> ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next
>> neighbor dosido.  So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the
>> Loose/Forgotten Treasure -
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Callers  on behalf of
>> Jack Mitchell via Callers 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM
>> *To:* Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth
>> *Cc:* Callers@Lists.Sharedweight.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?
>>
>> Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies
>> chain (turn away) new N, I am really not crazy about them.  OkI'll
>> admit it, I actively dislike them.  Particularly for new dancers, and
>> particularly going to a discrete move like a balance.  It requires the lady
>> to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who *should certainly
>> not* twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite)
>> gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies
>> pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the
>> gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be
>> either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone
>> going in the right direction.  (don't even get me started on dances that
>> have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor).   (There are dances
>> -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will
>> still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because
>> the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the
>> allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.)  
>>
>> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more
>> control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who
>> they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the
>> new neighbor.  Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think
>> that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance
>> from the ones mentioned.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris
>>> Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a
>>> ladies chain.
>>> Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten
>>> treasure. She begins the dance with a N B, and ends it with a chain as
>>> well.
>>> Linda
>>>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

Real interesting discussion! My two cents on the order of teaching: I've
been having good luck lately with teaching in the following order--
1) promenade the ring
2) turn around to promenade the opposite direction (lady walks forward and
gent walks back, i.e. CCW rotation--get everyone used to turning in the
right direction)
3) promenade across the set ("gents, identify your own left shoulder. Now
identify that other gent's left shoulder. That's how you're going to pass
each other")
4) R/L through *with a demo*
5) ladies chain

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Aahz via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
> >
> > Just a note: I always teach the right and left through. It is a
> > simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much sense
> > for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers
> > are crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with
> > the dancer directly across, then left-hands on the side and you
> > courteously help each other turn via a courtesy turn.
>
> Most of my teaching has been in a square dance context, but I teach Pass
> Thru, Courtesy Turn before I teach R Thru.  And I teach sashayed
> Courtesy Turn -- probably wouldn't bother with that in a contra context.
>
> There's a regular argument in the square dance community about whether
> it's better to teach the handed version or no-hands version of calls
> first (e.g. California Twirl vs Partner Trade).  I overall favor the
> handed calls first because it's better body flow and the guide makes it
> easier to learn the call.  However, I switch with R Thru because
> learning how to take and drop hands while passing is a bit of a tricky
> skill for many people (the biggest culprit usually being Square Thru).
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
>   <*>   <*>   <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Aahz via Callers]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
>
> Just a note: I always teach the right and left through. It is a
> simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much sense
> for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers
> are crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with
> the dancer directly across, then left-hands on the side and you
> courteously help each other turn via a courtesy turn.

Most of my teaching has been in a square dance context, but I teach Pass
Thru, Courtesy Turn before I teach R Thru.  And I teach sashayed
Courtesy Turn -- probably wouldn't bother with that in a contra context.

There's a regular argument in the square dance community about whether
it's better to teach the handed version or no-hands version of calls
first (e.g. California Twirl vs Partner Trade).  I overall favor the
handed calls first because it's better body flow and the guide makes it
easier to learn the call.  However, I switch with R Thru because
learning how to take and drop hands while passing is a bit of a tricky
skill for many people (the biggest culprit usually being Square Thru).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[George Mercer via Callers]

I don't call much anymore.  I teach the courtesy turn all by itself from
the side of the set. It is a "courtesy." One person assists the other to
turn and arrive in the right position. Practice it from standing still --
at least twice so that the dancers are facing back into the set again. Then
I teach the ladies chain: ladies right-hand pull by across the set while
gents move into receiving or welcoming position, then both crossing ladies
and welcoming gents extend and joining left hands and while joining right
hands behind the ladies' waist the gent courteously assists her in turning
into the right place. Just a note: I always teach the right and left
through. It is a simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much
sense for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers are
crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with the dancer
directly across, then left-hands on the side and you courteously help each
other turn via a courtesy turn.  .

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
> chain for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific
> dance, what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
> possible?
>
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
>
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
> think about:
>
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
> whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
> would snowball.
>
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
>
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
> chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star
> is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
> wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
> progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
> chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
> after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which side
> of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
> chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but I
> don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
> line is another new piece.
>
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
> have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
> won't be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
> thread ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>
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>
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Interesting approach John. I'd personally hesitate to introduce both chain
and a hey in the same dance for mostly new dancers. Do you draw an
extensive parallel of the motion on the floor for the ladies?

As for apostrophes; well, contra I'm willing to teach. English, I've just
about given up on learning it, let alone teaching it ;-)

Yoyo, I like how you look at where they can enter the next move if they're
late. The difference between trying to get into a star versus trying to get
into long lines for accessibility; I think that's a good lens. The sequence
you jotted would be pretty forgiving. But I wonder about becket vs
improper. Do you use a lot of becket dances with brand new dancers? They're
(in my opinion) closer to the circle of couples that are often used as
beginner lessons. Going from circle of couples to becket to improper over
the course of a couple dances could segue a new crowd.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:40 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Luke,
> It depends on the skill levels in the hall.  If I have a lot of
> first timers or perpetual beginners I use a very simple dance like
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/ChainnHey.html
>
> For teaching I would much rather do the chain there and back to
> give more practice; the Yearn means that the dancers are set up ready to
> start the chain (no guarantee they will be in the right place after a
> beginner swing!); and the ladies flow out of the second chain to start the
> hey.
>
> By the way, I see you put the apostrophe in “gent’s chain”, so
> surely it should be “ladies’ chain” ☺
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
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> Callers mailing list
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>



-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[John Sweeney via Callers]

Hi Luke,
It depends on the skill levels in the hall.  If I have a lot of first 
timers or perpetual beginners I use a very simple dance like 
http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/ChainnHey.html

For teaching I would much rather do the chain there and back to give 
more practice; the Yearn means that the dancers are set up ready to start the 
chain (no guarantee they will be in the right place after a beginner swing!); 
and the ladies flow out of the second chain to start the hey.

By the way, I see you put the apostrophe in “gent’s chain”, so surely 
it should be “ladies’ chain” ☺

Happy dancing,  
   John 

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574   
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs 
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent