[cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

[Nari Mistry]

I  strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck & Ken Rosenberg 
asking for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga 
Lake.
Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can 
do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign 
amusement. To set ourselves up as "our viewpoint is best for everyone" 
is a mistake.  I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of 
wildlife and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban.
While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to 
me that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, 
as Ken has pointed out. So the argument becomes just "my preference 
against others'."
Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by 
hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and 
woods, leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good 
relationship between birders and land-owners, hunters and "real" people.
A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with 
duck-hunters clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away 
from shore and avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to 
gain an advantage.
I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen.
Nari Mistry


-- 
Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY
To see my paintings, visit
http://www.ArtbyNari.com

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

RE: [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

[Meena Haribal]

Hi all,

First of all, after reading John's post, when I suggested that CBC should do 
something about hunting was not to stop hunting, but to designate some 
locations on the lake to be free from  being hunting locations, so both birders 
and birds can enjoy some peace.

Why is it wrong if birders feel that they love to have some locations free of 
hunters and hunting? Don't we think we also have same right as hunters who 
think they would love to hunt in all areas? So come to a compromise!

So what is wrong in making some good locations on Cayuga Lake bird and birder 
friendly?

Hunters can share some locations with us for our pleasure! I think number of  
birders and hunters around Cayuga lake must be very similar if not higher for 
birders.

I think sport hunting is the one which bothers me, if you are hunting for food 
then it is ok with me, but just for the pleasure of killing something that 
definitely annoys me. If you are thinking of sports of hunting flying objects, 
have some artificial targets or may be try some falling leaves or some other 
similar targets.

Sorry for bursting out like this, instead of working on the proposal!

Meena




From: bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Nari Mistry
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 10:53 AM
To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

I  strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck & Ken Rosenberg asking for 
restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga Lake.
Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can do no 
wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign amusement. To set 
ourselves up as "our viewpoint is best for everyone" is a mistake.  I am just 
as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife and humans, but I don't 
think we can justify a ban.
While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me that 
waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken has 
pointed out. So the argument becomes just "my preference against others'."
Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by hunters 
as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods, leading to 
acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship between birders 
and land-owners, hunters and "real" people.
A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with duck-hunters 
clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from shore and 
avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an advantage.
I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen.
Nari Mistry

--
Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY
To see my paintings, visit
http://www.ArtbyNari.com
--
Cayugabirds-L List Info:
Welcome and Basics<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME>
Rules and Information<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES>
Subscribe, Configuration and 
Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm>
Archives:
The Mail 
Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html>
Surfbirds<http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds>
BirdingOnThe.Net<http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html>
Please submit your observations to eBird<http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!
--

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

[Linda Orkin]

Hey All,

I would just like to reiterate that I think this subject is very worthy of
further discussion with knowledgeable people engaged in the pros and cons
of establishing some gun free zones around the lake shore. I do not
consider myself to be that knowledgeable person but I see from what has
already been offered here that there are many of you out there.

The listserv will probably not be the best arena for this, as is already
apparent.  Passions can run high on a subject like this.  As passions can
escalate quickly on almost any conservation issue, land use issue, pet
freedom issue etc.

Can some of us take steps to begin a face to face conversation and see
where this might take us?  I am not sure if the Conservation Action
Committee of the Cayuga Bird Club would be a willing facilitator but I
think that might offer at least a venue.

Perhaps interested people can communicate privately about next steps?

Thanks.

Linda Orkin
Cayuga Bird Club



On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Meena Haribal  wrote:

>  Hi all, 
>
> ** **
>
> First of all, after reading John’s post, when I suggested that CBC should
> do something about hunting was not to stop hunting, but to designate some
> locations on the lake to be free from  being hunting locations, so both
> birders and birds can enjoy some peace.  
>
> ** **
>
> Why is it wrong if birders feel that they love to have some locations free
> of hunters and hunting? Don’t we think we also have same right as hunters
> who think they would love to hunt in all areas? So come to a compromise!**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> So what is wrong in making some good locations on Cayuga Lake bird and
> birder friendly? 
>
> ** **
>
> Hunters can share some locations with us for our pleasure! I think number
> of  birders and hunters around Cayuga lake must be very similar if not
> higher for birders. 
>
> ** **
>
> I think sport hunting is the one which bothers me, if you are hunting for
> food then it is ok with me, but just for the pleasure of killing something
> that definitely annoys me. If you are thinking of sports of hunting flying
> objects, have some artificial targets or may be try some falling leaves or
> some other similar targets. 
>
> ** **
>
> Sorry for bursting out like this, instead of working on the proposal!
>
> ** **
>
> Meena 
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:
> bounce-72561577-3493...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *Nari Mistry
> *Sent:* Monday, January 07, 2013 10:53 AM
> *To:* CAYUGABIRDS-L
> *Subject:* [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake
>
> ** **
>
> I  strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck & Ken Rosenberg asking
> for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga Lake.
> Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can
> do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign
> amusement. To set ourselves up as "our viewpoint is best for everyone" is a
> mistake.  I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife
> and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban.
> While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me
> that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken
> has pointed out. So the argument becomes just "my preference against
> others'."
> Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by
> hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods,
> leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship
> between birders and land-owners, hunters and "real" people.
> A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with duck-hunters
> clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from shore and
> avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an advantage.
> I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen.
> Nari Mistry
>
> 
>
> --
> Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY
> To see my paintings, visit
> http://www.ArtbyNari.com
>
> --
>
> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:*
>
> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME>***
> *
>
> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES>**
> **
>
> Subscribe, Configuration and 
> Leave<http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm>
> 
>
> *Archives:*
>
> The Mail 
> Archive<http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html>
> 
>
> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/C

Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

[Candace Cornell]

I'll put this topic on our agenda for our next CAC meeting, tentatively set
for Thursday, January 24 at 7 pm.
Candace

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Nari Mistry  wrote:

> **
> I  strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck & Ken Rosenberg asking
> for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga Lake.
> Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can
> do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign
> amusement. To set ourselves up as "our viewpoint is best for everyone" is a
> mistake.  I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife
> and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban.
> While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me
> that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken
> has pointed out. So the argument becomes just "my preference against
> others'."
> Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by
> hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods,
> leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship
> between birders and land-owners, hunters and "real" people.
> A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with duck-hunters
> clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from shore and
> avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an advantage.
> I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen.
> Nari Mistry
>
>
> --
> Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY
> To see my paintings, visit
> http://www.ArtbyNari.com
> --
> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and 
> Leave
> *Archives:*
> The Mail 
> Archive
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> *Please submit your observations to eBird
> !*
> --
>

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

[Linda Orkin]

This is a perfect way to proceed with this, I believe, and I look forward
to having all who are interested contact Candace to discuss their interest
and willingness in participating.

I think the listserv serves a valuable role in starting these types of
debates and discussions, but once a couple of points of view have been
expressed, it seems to me it is time to transition to off list action
bolstered by information, facts and yes, emotion.

Thanks much.

Linda Orkin

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Candace Cornell  wrote:

> I'll put this topic on our agenda for our next CAC meeting, tentatively
> set for Thursday, January 24 at 7 pm.
> Candace
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Nari Mistry  wrote:
>
>> **
>> I  strongly endorse the wise comments of Jody Enck & Ken Rosenberg
>> asking for restraint in advocating for a ban on duck hunting on Cayuga
>> Lake.
>> Birders tend to believe that we are a huge beneficial community that can
>> do no wrong. The reality is that the world looks at us with benign
>> amusement. To set ourselves up as "our viewpoint is best for everyone" is a
>> mistake.  I am just as concerned about gunshots and disturbance of wildlife
>> and humans, but I don't think we can justify a ban.
>> While bird conservation arguments may be useful, it does not appear to me
>> that waterfowl conservation is threatened by hunting on Cayuga Lake, as Ken
>> has pointed out. So the argument becomes just "my preference against
>> others'."
>> Pushing for a ban on duck-hunting on the lake can easily be regarded by
>> hunters as the first step in trying to ban hunting in the fields and woods,
>> leading to acrimonious name-calling and the end of any good relationship
>> between birders and land-owners, hunters and "real" people.
>> A much better course of action would be to have a dialog with
>> duck-hunters clubs and to explain the beneficial need for hunting away from
>> shore and avoiding deliberate disturbance and flushing of birds to gain an
>> advantage.
>> I hope a reasonable course of action is chosen.
>> Nari Mistry
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY
>> To see my paintings, visit
>> http://www.ArtbyNari.com
>> --
>> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:*
>> Welcome and Basics 
>> Rules and Information 
>> Subscribe, Configuration and 
>> Leave
>> *Archives:*
>> The Mail 
>> Archive
>> Surfbirds 
>> BirdingOnThe.Net 
>> *Please submit your observations to eBird
>> !*
>> --
>>
>
> --
> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:*
> Welcome and Basics 
> Rules and Information 
> Subscribe, Configuration and 
> Leave
> *Archives:*
> The Mail 
> Archive
> Surfbirds 
> BirdingOnThe.Net 
> *Please submit your observations to eBird
> !*
> --
>



-- 
Don't ask what your bird club can do for you, ask what you can do for your
bird club!! <')_,/

--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--

[PMX:#] Re: [cayugabirds-l] Birders & Hunters on Cayuga Lake

[Carl Steckler]

I haven't read all of the posts on this issue, and perhaps what I am 
about to say has already been said, but here goes.


Hunters and especially those who hunt waterfowl contribute a tremendous 
amount of their own money and time to the preservation of waterfowl, 
habitat and wildlife in general. Can we as birders say the same. Sure 
some of us put in some of our time, but how many do or are willing to 
spend a lot of our own money towards that end. I am not talking about a 
few bucks here and there. In new York State alone over 1.5 million 
hunters who regularly contribute over $745.2 million dollars a year on 
licenses and stamps. If you add up all of the funds involved with 
hunting, fishing and trapping, the total sports contribution is well 
over $3.7 billion dollars.  Ask your self, have we even come close to 
that both in terms of numbers of participants, let alone that much money?


If I were a hunter, I'm not, but if I were I would ask you to put your 
money where your mouth is. It's a nice sentiment we seem to have, but 
how much do we really contribute? Shire we count birds every year, and 
this is good for  knowing how our habitat is going, but again how much 
do we really contribute. I know I don't contribute very much either 
scientifically or monetarily. So given where the money for conservation 
comes from do we really have the right to criticize or ban others from 
what they are contributing a whole lot more than we are? Plus we 
actually benefit from what they do. Do you really think we would even 
have so much to watch if not for those we would oppose?


Now getting off my soapbox.

Carl Steckler
"For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will 
never know" Unknown Marine Khe Sahn, Vietnam


--

Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm

ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html

Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/

--