RE:[cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
I have read yesterday's comments about electronic calls (I get only the digest, so have not read today's responses.) I saw nothing said about using calls during nesting season. I don't own a portable electronic call. My own behavior has been to avoid even PISHING during nesting season. Breeding birds are predictably agitated by calls and spishing -- that's why they respond. So it seems to me that during nesting season we should avoid disturbances wherever a nest is suspected. I suppose when you see an elusive bird flitting about in the canopy, especially a migratory bird, then it's OK to call it in closer. Some may think this restriction is extreme. Comments would be helpful. - Nari Mistry Subject: Has birding ethics changed? From: John and Sue Gregoirek...@empacc.net Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 09:36:19 -0400 X-Message-Number: 1 Perhaps I misunderstand the CayugaBirds posts of late but in the last couple of years I have seen many references to birders using electronic calls to enhance their personal or group birding experience. It used to be a condemned practice and very strictly limited to research, and then light usage only, as well as a part of the ABA Birding Code of Ethics. I thought that perhaps these posts were new birders who hadn't been taught the ethical code but now I see the use of calls somewhat codified by its use in SFO trips. While the proliferation of electronic devices may make this easier, I don't see the need or the justification. Comments appreciated. John -- Nari B. Mistry, Ithaca, NY To see my paintings, visit http://www.ArtbyNari.com -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
Hi Nari, As John said, it used to be strictly limited to scientific research, but I think over the last 50 years we've shifted from black-and-white to grayscale on this question. The advent of Citizen Science has played a role, by creating research projects that depend on the participation of birders, hence offering them an inside view of the scientific justifications for various kinds and degrees of disturbance. For example, pishing, imitation and playback are all accepted field techniques in various projects that aim to survey breeding birds. I expect that birding ethics (and citizen science) will continue to evolve, and eventually we may see them in something like true color! Geo -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
For my two cents: I have done some really extensive audio playback as part of my golden-wing nest surveys and studies of nesting success, which involved luring birds into nets for color-banding and for blood samples to determine hybridization. I never felt that my playbacks reduced nesting success or caused mortality by predators, although that could rarely happen. I do know that in 20 years there were 3-4 instances when I caused nest failure by visiting nests, but not due to playbacks themselves. I always justified the extremely regretful nest failures and any small stress to the birds due to playback because of the gain in knowledge about the conservation and ecology of the species. I certainly agree that multiple playbacks by many visitors should be prohibited, but I don't think a few, say ~4 or 5 in a day or 10 over a week, does any harm. That would be qualified by the weather condition and somewhat by the stage of courtship and nest building. In terrible weather, turn the audible off, and also if it is apparent that the pair is just forming a pair bond. Cheers, John Confer On 4/9/2012 2:13 PM, geoklop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Nari, As John said, it used to be strictly limited to scientific research, but I think over the last 50 years we've shifted from black-and-white to grayscale on this question. The advent of Citizen Science has played a role, by creating research projects that depend on the participation of birders, hence offering them an inside view of the scientific justifications for various kinds and degrees of disturbance. For example, pishing, imitation and playback are all accepted field techniques in various projects that aim to survey breeding birds. I expect that birding ethics (and citizen science) will continue to evolve, and eventually we may see them in something like true color! Geo -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --attachment: confer.vcf
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
I led an SFO trip up the lake on Saturday. I did not call birds until we reached Martin's Tract. I used a tape to call in a Virginia Rail. A Sora responded. A couple days before a Virginia Rail responded. There is also an American Bittern calling from there and probably Marsh Wrens. (Both Gary Kohlenberg and Tim Lenz heard the wren). I think using a tape is an okay thing to do. I totally agree about NOT playing tapes when birds are breeding. That is taboo. Also pishing is okay until breeding season. If you try to pish for sparrows, Song Sparrows might be the only one you hear. After breeding season for warblers and sparrows. I think it is a mixed bag. Good Birding, Ann Up for disputes On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John Confer con...@ithaca.edu wrote: For my two cents: I have done some really extensive audio playback as part of my golden-wing nest surveys and studies of nesting success, which involved luring birds into nets for color-banding and for blood samples to determine hybridization. I never felt that my playbacks reduced nesting success or caused mortality by predators, although that could rarely happen. I do know that in 20 years there were 3-4 instances when I caused nest failure by visiting nests, but not due to playbacks themselves. I always justified the extremely regretful nest failures and any small stress to the birds due to playback because of the gai knowledge about the conservation and ecology of the species. I certainly agree that multiple playbacks by many visitors should be prohibited, but I don't think a few, say ~4 or 5 in a day or 10 over a week, does any harm. That would be qualified by the weather condition and somewhat by the stage of courtship and nest building. In terrible weather, turn the audible off, and also if it is apparent that the pair is just forming a pair bond. Cheers, John Confer On 4/9/2012 2:13 PM, geoklop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Nari, As John said, it used to be strictly limited to scientific research, but I think over the last 50 years we've shifted from black-and-white to grayscale on this question. The advent of Citizen Science has played a role, by creating research projects that depend on the participation of birders, hence offering them an inside view of the scientific justifications for various kinds and degrees of disturbance. For example, pishing, imitation and playback are all accepted field techniques in various projects that aim to survey breeding birds. I expect that birding ethics (and citizen science) will continue to evolve, and eventually we may see them in something like true color! Geo -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
I was with Ann, as an SFO co-leader, and I fully agree with her on this one. I agree that this should not be done during breeding season even though some researchers have done it with little issue apparently. But the number of researchers out there has not exploded like the number of people with portable audio equipment. That being said, I think the benefits when doing education, like SFO, far outweigh the very very small chance of over-stressing a bird to its demise. Of course we used the playback in a limited way. We only got one sora to call with the virginia rail tape. Later the virginia rail called out on his own without any recording. No bittern responded to the playback. So we did not cause much of an issue. A sora called for a couple minutes that was it. The birds apparently are still there and life is good. More people interested in birds generally means more money for conservation. So I think limited use for playback for educational purposes is fine. I can also see professional photographers doing this too...their beautiful pictures can inspire others to get into birding. More birders usually means more interest in conservation. Just my 2 cents. thanks. From: Ann Mitchell annmitchel...@gmail.com To: John Confer con...@ithaca.edu Cc: geoklop...@gmail.com; Upstate NY Birding cayugabird...@list.cornell.edu Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed? I led an SFO trip up the lake on Saturday. I did not call birds until we reached Martin's Tract. I used a tape to call in a Virginia Rail. A Sora responded. A couple days before a Virginia Rail responded. There is also an American Bittern calling from there and probably Marsh Wrens. (Both Gary Kohlenberg and Tim Lenz heard the wren). I think using a tape is an okay thing to do. I totally agree about NOT playing tapes when birds are breeding. That is taboo. Also pishing is okay until breeding season. If you try to pish for sparrows, Song Sparrows might be the only one you hear. After breeding season for warblers and sparrows. I think it is a mixed bag. Good Birding, Ann Up for disputes On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:31 PM, John Confer con...@ithaca.edu wrote: For my two cents: I have done some really extensive audio playback as part of my golden-wing nest surveys and studies of nesting success, which involved luring birds into nets for color-banding and for blood samples to determine hybridization. I never felt that my playbacks reduced nesting success or caused mortality by predators, although that could rarely happen. I do know that in 20 years there were 3-4 instances when I caused nest failure by visiting nests, but not due to playbacks themselves. I always justified the extremely regretful nest failures and any small stress to the birds due to playback because of the gai knowledge about the conservation and ecology of the species. I certainly agree that multiple playbacks by many visitors should be prohibited, but I don't think a few, say ~4 or 5 in a day or 10 over a week, does any harm. That would be qualified by the weather condition and somewhat by the stage of courtship and nest building. In terrible weather, turn the audible off, and also if it is apparent that the pair is just forming a pair bond. Cheers, John Confer On 4/9/2012 2:13 PM, geoklop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Nari, As John said, it used to be strictly limited to scientific research, but I think over the last 50 years we've shifted from black-and-white to grayscale on this question. The advent of Citizen Science has played a role, by creating research projects that depend on the participation of birders, hence offering them an inside view of the scientific justifications for various kinds and degrees of disturbance. For example, pishing, imitation and playback are all accepted field techniques in various projects that aim to survey breeding birds. I expect that birding ethics (and citizen science) will continue to evolve, and eventually we may see them in something like true color! Geo -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
From the ABA code: Limit the use of recordings and other methods of attracting birds, and never use such methods in heavily birded areas, or for attracting any species that is Threatened, Endangered, or of Special Concern, or is rare in your local area So, the code implicitly recognizes these attraction techniques as birding tools, and just calls for us to use situationally appropriate judgement and restraint. The two never clauses declare cases that are beyond the bounds of appropriateness, but otherwise the community of American birders is enjoined to educate, judge and police itself through ongoing debate about the topic. Geo -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
Marie is right, as more birders also want to photograph birds it is going to increase. I too am guilty of this behavior. I will not count a bird on my life list unless I have a recognizable photo of it. It is hard enough to find a bird when you can hear it, but in my case with most of my high frequency hearing gone I can't hear most birds so I supplement that by using calls. However having said that I also have done some research on how much this alters the behavior of the birds to actually be harmful. From what I have read and the experts I have talked to there seems to be no real consensus. My own background, being educated as a wildlife biologist tells me that even stepping into the habitat alters behavior. The question, still unanswered is how much and is it harmful? Take an example. I wanted to photograph a Woodcock. I could go tramping around in possible locations during the day hoping to flush one, or I could go out at night when they are doing their mating flights. Find a bird and shine a spotlight to locate the bird and take the photo. I did some research from others who used this method and the general consensus was that after spotlighting the bird and taking flash photos the bird went right on as if nothing had happened. Indeed this is exactly what happened when I photographed a Woodcock. the bird continued his mating flights even during my attempts to photograph him and continued after I stopped. Was the bird harmed? The bird didn't even seem frightened when lighted and exposed to the flash of my camera. It didn't try to hide or fly away, it stopped for a few seconds and then went back to it's mating flights. In fact it took several flights to get a good photo and the bird came back to the same spot while we stood there several feet away. I think that we tend to give our selves too much credit for disturbing wildlife. Unless we really try to harm the bird or destroy it's habitat I feel that the bird or other wildlife simply goes away from us, hides or goes about it's business with little regard for us. I guess the real question is how far we go and what we are willing to allow in our pursuit of birding. Remember what was acceptable in Audubon's time? At least we only shoot with cameras. Carl Steckler -- For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
My 2 cents worth, And using playbacks is now used by bird photographers everywhere to entice in birds, especially the small hard-to-see ones such as warblers. I am somewhat hypocritical here, because I do use this technique myself on occasion, but what has happened in bird photography is that EVERYONE can now do it, and EVERYONE does in fact do it. It's raised the bar all over, but this means that more and more birds are being harassed because everyone wants those pretty, close-up warbler images. One appalling example is the several well-known Barred Owl spots in Florida where the owls get bugged over and over again by photographers to get flight shots. One might argue (not my argument) that a few well-known owls being the subject of annoyance is better that a lot of owls being bugged everywhere. One could debate this whole issue at length and never get consensussame with the owl-baiting discussions. It's out there...it will not go away. Anyway, in the long term while using playbacks as a matter of course is unfortunate, in my opinion, it will not go away at this point in time. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Now on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marie-Read-Wildlife-Photography/104356136271727 From: bounce-46014034-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-46014034-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John and Sue Gregoire [k...@empacc.net] Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Cc: KHAMOLISTSERV Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed? Perhaps I misunderstand the CayugaBirds posts of late but in the last couple of years I have seen many references to birders using electronic calls to enhance their personal or group birding experience. It used to be a condemned practice and very strictly limited to research, and then light usage only, as well as a part of the ABA Birding Code of Ethics. I thought that perhaps these posts were new birders who hadn't been taught the ethical code but now I see the use of calls somewhat codified by its use in SFO trips. While the proliferation of electronic devices may make this easier, I don't see the need or the justification. Comments appreciated. John -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed?
Fellow birders. Of course, the earth was created for our pleasure and everything in and on it is here to entertain us. We are superior and able to devise clever things that affect these creatures; if something enhances our enjoyment, what else matters? It is of little concern to us that our calling them may expose them to predation, tire them or otherwise interfere with their lives. Who cares? If a bird is killed in the forest, it is not real unless we see it. And, if we see it, that is of interest to us and therefore it is as it should be. Animals may readily be used for experimentation of various sorts to benefit us. We may take specimens and study their dead bodies. After all, any suffering is theirs, not ours. They are not as real as we are. We will continue to entertain ourselves, read our magazines, gather their calls so that once they are extinct, we can still amuse ourselves by seeing photos and hearing their sounds. Let the chips, creatures, etc. fall where they may. We can think of endless reasons to justify our actions. It's all about us. - Anthropocentrism is the Achilles' heel of our species and may well seal our own fate. However, we will probably still be congratulating ourselves as we step into the void. Regi At 11:39 AM 4/8/2012, Marie P Read wrote: My 2 cents worth, And using playbacks is now used by bird photographers everywhere to entice in birds, especially the small hard-to-see ones such as warblers. I am somewhat hypocritical here, because I do use this technique myself on occasion, but what has happened in bird photography is that EVERYONE can now do it, and EVERYONE does in fact do it. It's raised the bar all over, but this means that more and more birds are being harassed because everyone wants those pretty, close-up warbler images. One appalling example is the several well-known Barred Owl spots in Florida where the owls get bugged over and over again by photographers to get flight shots. One might argue (not my argument) that a few well-known owls being the subject of annoyance is better that a lot of owls being bugged everywhere. One could debate this whole issue at length and never get consensussame with the owl-baiting discussions. It's out there...it will not go away. Anyway, in the long term while using playbacks as a matter of course is unfortunate, in my opinion, it will not go away at this point in time. Marie Marie Read Wildlife Photography 452 Ringwood Road Freeville NY 13068 USA Phone 607-539-6608 e-mail m...@cornell.edu http://www.marieread.com Now on FaceBook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marie-Read-Wildlife-Photography/104356136271727 From: bounce-46014034-5851...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-46014034-5851...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of John and Sue Gregoire [k...@empacc.net] Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: CAYUGABIRDS-L Cc: KHAMOLISTSERV Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Has birding ethics changed? Perhaps I misunderstand the CayugaBirds posts of late but in the last couple of years I have seen many references to birders using electronic calls to enhance their personal or group birding experience. It used to be a condemned practice and very strictly limited to research, and then light usage only, as well as a part of the ABA Birding Code of Ethics. I thought that perhaps these posts were new birders who hadn't been taught the ethical code but now I see the use of calls somewhat codified by its use in SFO trips. While the proliferation of electronic devices may make this easier, I don't see the need or the justification. Comments appreciated. John -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
