Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread Ed Pozharski 

On 04/12/2013 06:03 PM, Nat Echols wrote:
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Boaz Shaanan 
mailto:bshaa...@exchange.bgu.ac.il>> wrote:


Whichever way the input file for the run is prepared (via GUI or
command line), anybody who doesn't inspect the log file at the end
of the run is doomed and bound to commit senseless errors. I was
taught a long time ago that computers always do what you told them
to do and not what you think you told them, which is why
inspecting the log file helps.


I agree in principle - I would not advocate that anyone (*especially* 
novices) run crystallography software as a "black box".  However, 
whether or not a program constitutes a black box has nothing to do 
whether it runs in a GUI or not.  The one advantage a GUI has is the 
ability to convey inherently graphical information (plots, etc.).  
That it is still necessary to inspect the log file(s) carefully 
reflects the design of the underlying programs; ideally any and all 
essential feedback should also be displayed in the GUI (if one 
exists).  Obviously there is still much work to be done here.


-Nat


It is hard to blame "novices" for running crystallography software as a 
black box when the websites from which they download the said software 
use the word "automated" to describe it.  Because, at least according to 
wikipedia (another great resource that should be used with care), 
"automation is the operation of machinery without human supervision".  
Checking the log-files or messages supplied by GUI seems to fall under 
"human supervision", which "automated" programmes should not really 
require.  I am not advocating return to the stone age when naming a 
tutorial for a widely used model building software "... for morons" was 
probably considered a joke (not a good one too).  I am just saying that 
it is perhaps quite predictable that with promise of automation comes 
the expectation of, well, automation.  Whether the true automation of 
crystallographic structure determination may become available in the 
future is perhaps debatable.  Whether it is already available probably 
isn't.


On a broader question of GUI versus command line, both obviously have 
their uses.  Mastering command line gives one flexibility and perhaps 
greater insight into what programmes actually do.  Do I prefer a little 
button that opens a file chooser dialog over sam-atom-in?  Absolutely.  
But I am glad that --pdb and --auto command line options are supplied, 
because I can then write a little bash pipeline to pass 50 expected 
protein-ligand complex datasets through simple refmac-coot cycle to 
quickly see which ones are interesting.  In that regard, both ccp4 and 
phenix are doing it the right way - gui is simply a gateway to the 
command-line controlled code. I can then choose the interface that fits 
particular situation.


As for the relatively new CCP4 update feature, it is absolutely awesome.

Cheers,

Ed.



--
Oh, suddenly throwing a giraffe into a volcano to make water is crazy?
Julian, King of Lemurs

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread Nat Echols 
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Boaz Shaanan
wrote:

>  Whichever way the input file for the run is prepared (via GUI or command
> line), anybody who doesn't inspect the log file at the end of the run is
> doomed and bound to commit senseless errors. I was taught a long time ago
> that computers always do what you told them to do and not what you think
> you told them, which is why inspecting the log file helps.
>

I agree in principle - I would not advocate that anyone (*especially*
novices) run crystallography software as a "black box".  However, whether
or not a program constitutes a black box has nothing to do whether it runs
in a GUI or not.  The one advantage a GUI has is the ability to convey
inherently graphical information (plots, etc.).  That it is still necessary
to inspect the log file(s) carefully reflects the design of the underlying
programs; ideally any and all essential feedback should also be displayed
in the GUI (if one exists).  Obviously there is still much work to be done
here.

-Nat

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread Boaz Shaanan 



Hi Nat,


Whichever way the input file for the run is prepared (via GUI or command line), anybody who doesn't inspect the log file at the end of the run is doomed and bound to commit senseless errors. I was taught a long time ago that computers always do what you
 told them to do and not what you think you told them, which is why inspecting the log file helps. BTW, I find the GUI's (ccp4i or phenix) as great help in preparing the command file, certainly the skeleton which can then be modified and run via the command
 line if needed.


  Cheers,


               Boaz
 
Boaz Shaanan, Ph.D.

Dept. of Life Sciences  
Ben-Gurion University of the Negev  
Beer-Sheva 84105    
Israel  
    
E-mail: bshaa...@bgu.ac.il
Phone: 972-8-647-2220  Skype: boaz.shaanan  
Fax:   972-8-647-2992 or 972-8-646-1710
 
 








From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Nat Echols [nathaniel.ech...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:38 PM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success




On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM, James Holton <jmhol...@lbl.gov> wrote:




But, when it comes to GUIs, I have always found them counterproductive.  In my humble opinion, the purpose of computers and other machines is to DO work for me, not create work for me, and I already have enough buttons to push each day.





This is a very defensible position with regards to your normal workflow (or mine) - but beamline scientists (or software developers) are not very representative of crystallographers as a group.  I've seen a lot of reflexive anti-GUI mentality from users
 who don't fall into either category, presumably because a senior postdoc or PI told them "real crystallographers use the command line", when in reality they'd be better served by figuring out on their own what workflow is most efficient for them.


-Nat

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread James Stroud 
On Apr 12, 2013, at 12:44 PM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:

> What, I'm afraid, people rarely realise these days, is that their desktops 
> are, essentially, GUIs to various OS features, so they obviously use GUI more 
> frequently than they think :) After all, this is all matter of habits and 
> training, and the reality is that people get more and more GUI-oriented these 
> days, like it or not. Whether to fight the reality or try to use it for 
> benefit is, certainly, every developer's own choice. I still remember payroll 
> officers saying that hand calculators (and even their predecessors) were much 
> more convenient and robust than modern software, but do not hear this for 
> some 15 years already ...
> 
> Eugene


There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a GUI. The problem, for those who 
like to take advantage of automation, is that a GUI is a bottleneck if it can't 
be automated in some way. In my opinion, the best automation is based on an API 
(in my favorite scripting language, of course).

The original unix tools were built with automation in mind, using pipes, 
redirects, and file I/O to control the flow of information. This automation 
wasn't designed because the architects couldn't conceive of a GUI, but because 
it was and is efficient.

A utility can easily lock a user into a GUI. The usual cruel method is by 
spawning a dialog box the forces the user to acknowledge whatever triviality 
the program is trying to communicate (instead of sending the information to a 
log file where it belongs). If a program locks the user into a GUI, by whatever 
means, then the program can't be automated. And if it can't be automated it 
becomes a source of inefficiency. I think this is James Holton's point.

Most of CCP4 can be automated by using the utilities from the command line, 
taking advantage of pipes, redirects, and file I/O as envisioned by the unix 
architects. CCP4 can also be run via a GUI, which I take advantage of in 
certain situations. It's a great model for user interaction. Long may it live 
(and may modal dialog boxes die a horrible and quick death).

James



> 
> On 12 Apr 2013, at 19:09, James Holton wrote:
> 
> 
> I agree with Nat.  There are good GUIs and bad GUIs, just like there are good 
> command-line programs and bad command-line programs.  Bad programs are easy 
> to write and good ones are hard.  Conservation of "work" I think.
> 
> -James Holton
> MAD Scientist
> 
> On 4/12/2013 10:38 AM, Nat Echols wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM, James Holton 
> mailto:jmhol...@lbl.gov>> wrote:
> But, when it comes to GUIs, I have always found them counterproductive.  In 
> my humble opinion, the purpose of computers and other machines is to DO work 
> for me, not create work for me, and I already have enough buttons to push 
> each day.
> 
> This is a very defensible position with regards to your normal workflow (or 
> mine) - but beamline scientists (or software developers) are not very 
> representative of crystallographers as a group.  I've seen a lot of reflexive 
> anti-GUI mentality from users who don't fall into either category, presumably 
> because a senior postdoc or PI told them "real crystallographers use the 
> command line", when in reality they'd be better served by figuring out on 
> their own what workflow is most efficient for them.
> 
> -Nat
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scanned by iCritical.
>

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread eugene . krissinel 
What, I'm afraid, people rarely realise these days, is that their desktops are, 
essentially, GUIs to various OS features, so they obviously use GUI more 
frequently than they think :) After all, this is all matter of habits and 
training, and the reality is that people get more and more GUI-oriented these 
days, like it or not. Whether to fight the reality or try to use it for benefit 
is, certainly, every developer's own choice. I still remember payroll officers 
saying that hand calculators (and even their predecessors) were much more 
convenient and robust than modern software, but do not hear this for some 15 
years already ...

Eugene


On 12 Apr 2013, at 19:09, James Holton wrote:


I agree with Nat.  There are good GUIs and bad GUIs, just like there are good 
command-line programs and bad command-line programs.  Bad programs are easy to 
write and good ones are hard.  Conservation of "work" I think.

-James Holton
MAD Scientist

On 4/12/2013 10:38 AM, Nat Echols wrote:
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM, James Holton 
mailto:jmhol...@lbl.gov>> wrote:
But, when it comes to GUIs, I have always found them counterproductive.  In my 
humble opinion, the purpose of computers and other machines is to DO work for 
me, not create work for me, and I already have enough buttons to push each day.

This is a very defensible position with regards to your normal workflow (or 
mine) - but beamline scientists (or software developers) are not very 
representative of crystallographers as a group.  I've seen a lot of reflexive 
anti-GUI mentality from users who don't fall into either category, presumably 
because a senior postdoc or PI told them "real crystallographers use the 
command line", when in reality they'd be better served by figuring out on their 
own what workflow is most efficient for them.

-Nat



-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread James Holton 


I agree with Nat.  There are good GUIs and bad GUIs, just like there are 
good command-line programs and bad command-line programs.  Bad programs 
are easy to write and good ones are hard. Conservation of "work" I think.


-James Holton
MAD Scientist

On 4/12/2013 10:38 AM, Nat Echols wrote:
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM, James Holton > wrote:


But, when it comes to GUIs, I have always found them
counterproductive.  In my humble opinion, the purpose of computers
and other machines is to DO work for me, not create work for me,
and I already have enough buttons to push each day.


This is a very defensible position with regards to your normal 
workflow (or mine) - but beamline scientists (or software developers) 
are not very representative of crystallographers as a group.  I've 
seen a lot of reflexive anti-GUI mentality from users who don't fall 
into either category, presumably because a senior postdoc or PI told 
them "real crystallographers use the command line", when in reality 
they'd be better served by figuring out on their own what workflow is 
most efficient for them.


-Nat

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread Nat Echols 
On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM, James Holton  wrote:

>  But, when it comes to GUIs, I have always found them counterproductive.
> In my humble opinion, the purpose of computers and other machines is to DO
> work for me, not create work for me, and I already have enough buttons to
> push each day.
>

This is a very defensible position with regards to your normal workflow (or
mine) - but beamline scientists (or software developers) are not very
representative of crystallographers as a group.  I've seen a lot of
reflexive anti-GUI mentality from users who don't fall into either
category, presumably because a senior postdoc or PI told them "real
crystallographers use the command line", when in reality they'd be better
served by figuring out on their own what workflow is most efficient for
them.

-Nat

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread James Holton 


Alright, alright,

I should thank Eugene for being such a good sport.  And I should also 
apologize for all the work I just created for him!


 I fully appreciate all the years and years of effort and struggle that 
has gone into making ccp4i and other crystallographic GUIs the 
accessible tools that they are today.  I think these efforts should 
continue, and we should all send Martin Noble one of those letters he needs.


But, when it comes to GUIs, I have always found them counterproductive.  
In my humble opinion, the purpose of computers and other machines is to 
DO work for me, not create work for me, and I already have enough 
buttons to push each day.  This is why my favorite command-line programs 
are things like "xautomation", "xse" and a tcl extension called "cwind" 
that lets you send mouse clicks and keystrokes into a Windoze machine 
from a tcl script. Comes in really handy for those late-night dialog 
boxes that always seem to pop up at 4am and would otherwise generate a 
user-support call because "X" has stopped working.  Yes, I could SSH in, 
open a tunnel through my firewall to an NX server and launch a vncviewer 
within the NX session and then (eventually) click on the "OK" button.  
But I'd rather just sleep through all that.


-James Holton
MAD Scientist


On 4/11/2013 9:34 AM, Jim Pflugrath wrote:
I think James gets to 'fight' like in the old game of rogue by 
pressing the h, j, k, l keys on his keyboard (not a detachable one 
either).  While Eugene gets to use a modern game controller or a Wii.


Ooops, game is already over and James has lost.

Jim



*From:* CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Felix 
Frolow [mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il]

*Sent:* Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:25 AM
*To:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
*Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

I would serve as a second in this duel, but I respect very much both 
engaged is this duel…

Drop you pistols or swords !
:-)
Dr Felix Frolow
Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of 
Molecular Microbiology and Biotechnology

Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel

Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor

e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il <mailto:mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il>
Tel:  ++972-3640-8723
Fax: ++972-3640-9407
Cellular: 0547 459 608

On Apr 11, 2013, at 18:46 , eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk 
<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:



That's really hard. Duel?

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 16:32, James Holton wrote:



CCP4 has a GUI?

-James Holton
MAD Scientist

On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk 
<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used 
primarily from ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be 
used from command line at all ?:)). The name was changed because it 
is reserved in Windows, which caused lots of troubles. Now it will 
stay as is.


Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, <mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk><mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk><mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
wrote:


No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in 
update descriptions, was it not?



There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all 
update descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out 
what information was trying to be communicated because of your 
message (see attachment).


James






On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

Hello All,

I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the 
update update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has 
reached its final update?


James









--
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-12 Thread Harry Powell 
Hi

I'd second NX; you can install a free server for one or two (I think - I only 
use one at a time ;-)) concurrent connections and a local client, then it's 
almost "like being there".

On 11 Apr 2013, at 22:54, Dyda wrote:

> Or nx, which works very well, although the server has to be installed at
> the remote end and client on the local.
> 
> www.nomachine.com
> 
> Fred
> ***
> Fred Dyda, Ph.D.   Phone:301-402-4496
> Laboratory of Molecular BiologyFax: 301-496-0201
> DHHS/NIH/NIDDK e-mail:fred.d...@nih.gov  
> Bldg. 5. Room 303 
> Bethesda, MD 20892-0560  URGENT message e-mail: 2022476...@mms.att.net
> Google maps coords: 39.000597, -77.102102
> http://www2.niddk.nih.gov/NIDDKLabs/IntramuralFaculty/DydaFred
> ***

Harry
--
** note change of address **
Dr Harry Powell, MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology, Francis Crick Avenue, 
Cambridge Biomedical Campus, Cambridge CB2 0QH
Chairman of European Crystallographic Association SIG9 (Crystallographic 
Computing)

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Herman . Schreuder 
With a good script, James will have won already before Eugene has started up 
his GUI.
Herman


From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Jim 
Pflugrath
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 6:34 PM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

I think James gets to 'fight' like in the old game of rogue by pressing the h, 
j, k, l keys on his keyboard (not a detachable one either).  While Eugene gets 
to use a modern game controller or a Wii.

Ooops, game is already over and James has lost.

Jim



From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Felix Frolow 
[mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il]
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:25 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

I would serve as a second in this duel, but I respect very much both engaged is 
this duel...
Drop you pistols or swords !
:-)
Dr Felix Frolow
Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular 
Microbiology and Biotechnology
Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel

Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor

e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il<mailto:mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il>
Tel:  ++972-3640-8723
Fax: ++972-3640-9407
Cellular: 0547 459 608

On Apr 11, 2013, at 18:46 , 
eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

That's really hard. Duel?

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 16:32, James Holton wrote:


CCP4 has a GUI?

-James Holton
MAD Scientist

On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, 
eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which caused 
lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk><mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>>
 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk><mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>>
 wrote:

No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
descriptions, was it not?


There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information was 
trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).

James






On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

Hello All,

I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final update?

James







--
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Dyda 
Or nx, which works very well, although the server has to be installed at
the remote end and client on the local.

www.nomachine.com

Fred
***
Fred Dyda, Ph.D.   Phone:301-402-4496
Laboratory of Molecular BiologyFax: 301-496-0201
DHHS/NIH/NIDDK e-mail:fred.d...@nih.gov  
Bldg. 5. Room 303 
Bethesda, MD 20892-0560  URGENT message e-mail: 2022476...@mms.att.net
Google maps coords: 39.000597, -77.102102
http://www2.niddk.nih.gov/NIDDKLabs/IntramuralFaculty/DydaFred
***

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Johan Hattne 
On 11 Apr 2013, at 13:53, David Schuller  wrote:

> My method is to run the updater graphically on one machine, then spread it 
> around with rsync. Although being able to run it on the command line would 
> allow me to accomplish that from my own desk, without crossing campus to 
> another building. Even with gigabit, running X remotely is rather slow and 
> bothersome.

In some cases I've found that compressing the ssh-traffic (i.e. ssh -C 
user@host) is enough to transform an unusably slow session to a workable one.

// Johan

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Ethan Merritt 
On Thursday, April 11, 2013 01:53:16 pm David Schuller wrote:
> On 04/11/13 13:36, Ethan Merritt wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:22:59 am Antony Oliver wrote:
> >> Eugene - that's great. I too run a small suite of Macs (12) and was trying 
> >> to find a practical way of updating all those machines remotely. The 
> >> command line version of CCP4um will be very useful.
> > Another option for a set of machines in the same network is to install a 
> > single
> > master copy of ccp4 on one machine exported to the others via NFS, and have 
> > all the
> > machines run it from there.  Then you only need to update one copy.
> > Works fine for me.
> >
> > Ethan
> >
> My method is to run the updater graphically on one machine, then spread 
> it around with rsync. Although being able to run it on the command line 
> would allow me to accomplish that from my own desk, without crossing 
> campus to another building. Even with gigabit, running X remotely is 
> rather slow and bothersome.

You may misunderstand - the executables live on a shared NFS directory
but there is no remote X connection involved.

Having said that, I routinely connect to the lab machines from home via ssh.
In that case the X connection is remote, but I find that the performance of
the ccp4i GUI is adequate even across the WAN.

Ethan  



> 
> 

-- 
Ethan A Merritt
Biomolecular Structure Center,  K-428 Health Sciences Bldg
University of Washington, Seattle 98195-7742

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread David Schuller 

On 04/11/13 13:36, Ethan Merritt wrote:

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:22:59 am Antony Oliver wrote:

Eugene - that's great. I too run a small suite of Macs (12) and was trying to 
find a practical way of updating all those machines remotely. The command line 
version of CCP4um will be very useful.

Another option for a set of machines in the same network is to install a single
master copy of ccp4 on one machine exported to the others via NFS, and have all 
the
machines run it from there.  Then you only need to update one copy.
Works fine for me.

Ethan

My method is to run the updater graphically on one machine, then spread 
it around with rsync. Although being able to run it on the command line 
would allow me to accomplish that from my own desk, without crossing 
campus to another building. Even with gigabit, running X remotely is 
rather slow and bothersome.


--
===
All Things Serve the Beam
===
   David J. Schuller
   modern man in a post-modern world
   MacCHESS, Cornell University
   schul...@cornell.edu

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Roger Rowlett 
Yep. I put all specialty lab software tools on a file server and mount it
on all workstations as /usr/local/xtal, a suggestion  I think I
learned...here. There are few programs that can't be served this way. I
only have to update the server.

Roger Rowlett
On Apr 11, 2013 1:42 PM, "Ethan Merritt"  wrote:

> On Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:22:59 am Antony Oliver wrote:
> > Eugene - that's great. I too run a small suite of Macs (12) and was
> trying to find a practical way of updating all those machines remotely. The
> command line version of CCP4um will be very useful.
>
> Another option for a set of machines in the same network is to install a
> single
> master copy of ccp4 on one machine exported to the others via NFS, and
> have all the
> machines run it from there.  Then you only need to update one copy.
> Works fine for me.
>
> Ethan
>
>
>
> >
> > Many thanks.
> >
> > Tony.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:19, "eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk" <
> eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Dale,
> > >
> > > From next CCP4 release (due soon), ccp4um will be runnable from
> command line in automatic, non-graphical mode, fully cronable. I hope that
> that will give you what you want.  "--check-silent" is a special option for
> ccp4i, it only checks for new updates but do not install them.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Eugene
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:10, Dale Tronrud wrote:
> > >
> > >> FYI
> > >>
> > >>  I have a small herd of computers here and find it cumbersome to ssh
> > >> to each and fire up ccp4i just to update the systems.  ccp4i takes a
> > >> while to draw all those boxes (particularly over ssh) and leaves files
> > >> behind in my disk areas on computers that I'm not likely to,
> personally,
> > >> run crystallographic computations.  I much prefer to simply run ccp4um
> > >> from the command line.
> > >>
> > >>  In fact, I would rather put it in cron and forget about it -- and
> > >> I expect that is what --check-silent is for.  The usage statement,
> > >> however, doesn't explicitly say that this installs the new updates it
> > >> finds.  I'll have to experiment a bit.
> > >>
> > >> Dale Tronrud
> > >>
> > >> On 04/11/2013 05:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
> > >>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used
> primarily from ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from
> command line at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in
> Windows, which caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
> > >>>
> > >>> Eugene
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM,  eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>>  eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in
> update descriptions, was it not?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all
> update descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what
> information was trying to be communicated because of your message (see
> attachment).
> > >>>
> > >>> James
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello All,
> > >>>
> > >>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the
> update update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its
> final update?
> > >>>
> > >>> James
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Ethan A Merritt
> Biomolecular Structure Center,  K-428 Health Sciences Bldg
> University of Washington, Seattle 98195-7742
>

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Richard Gildea 
Perhaps there needs to be a separate update manager to manage updates to
the update manager:

[image: Inline images 1]

(from http://xkcd.com/1197/)

Cheers,

Richard

--

Richard Gildea

Software Developer
Physical Biosciences Division
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
1 Cyclotron Rd
Mail Stop 64R0121
Berkeley
CA 94720-8118


On 11 April 2013 05:17,  wrote:

> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from
> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line
> at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which
> caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
>
> Eugene
>
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM,  eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>>  eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update
> descriptions, was it not?
>
>
> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update
> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information
> was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
>
> James
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update
> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final
> update?
>
> James
>
>
>
>
> --
> Scanned by iCritical.
>
>

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Ethan Merritt 
On Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:22:59 am Antony Oliver wrote:
> Eugene - that's great. I too run a small suite of Macs (12) and was trying to 
> find a practical way of updating all those machines remotely. The command 
> line version of CCP4um will be very useful. 

Another option for a set of machines in the same network is to install a single 
master copy of ccp4 on one machine exported to the others via NFS, and have all 
the 
machines run it from there.  Then you only need to update one copy.
Works fine for me.

Ethan



> 
> Many thanks. 
> 
> Tony. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:19, "eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk" 
>  wrote:
> 
> > Dear Dale,
> > 
> > From next CCP4 release (due soon), ccp4um will be runnable from command 
> > line in automatic, non-graphical mode, fully cronable. I hope that that 
> > will give you what you want.  "--check-silent" is a special option for 
> > ccp4i, it only checks for new updates but do not install them.
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > 
> > Eugene
> > 
> > 
> > On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:10, Dale Tronrud wrote:
> > 
> >> FYI
> >> 
> >>  I have a small herd of computers here and find it cumbersome to ssh
> >> to each and fire up ccp4i just to update the systems.  ccp4i takes a
> >> while to draw all those boxes (particularly over ssh) and leaves files
> >> behind in my disk areas on computers that I'm not likely to, personally,
> >> run crystallographic computations.  I much prefer to simply run ccp4um
> >> from the command line.
> >> 
> >>  In fact, I would rather put it in cron and forget about it -- and
> >> I expect that is what --check-silent is for.  The usage statement,
> >> however, doesn't explicitly say that this installs the new updates it
> >> finds.  I'll have to experiment a bit.
> >> 
> >> Dale Tronrud
> >> 
> >> On 04/11/2013 05:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
> >>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily 
> >>> from ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command 
> >>> line at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, 
> >>> which caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
> >>> 
> >>> Eugene
> >>> 
> >>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
> >>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
> >>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
> >>> descriptions, was it not?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
> >>> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what 
> >>> information was trying to be communicated because of your message (see 
> >>> attachment).
> >>> 
> >>> James
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hello All,
> >>> 
> >>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
> >>> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
> >>> update?
> >>> 
> >>> James
> > 
> > 
> 

-- 
Ethan A Merritt
Biomolecular Structure Center,  K-428 Health Sciences Bldg
University of Washington, Seattle 98195-7742

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread eugene . krissinel 
In cases like this, a request at c...@stfc.ac.uk should be the way to go. CCP4 
is a community resource and we are to listen and to do what's doable. We may 
not do everything at once, but knowing what is required is vital for the 
project.

Cheers,

Eugene


On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:22, Antony Oliver wrote:

> Eugene - that's great. I too run a small suite of Macs (12) and was trying to 
> find a practical way of updating all those machines remotely. The command 
> line version of CCP4um will be very useful. 
> 
> Many thanks. 
> 
> Tony. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:19, "eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk" 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Dear Dale,
>> 
>> From next CCP4 release (due soon), ccp4um will be runnable from command line 
>> in automatic, non-graphical mode, fully cronable. I hope that that will give 
>> you what you want.  "--check-silent" is a special option for ccp4i, it only 
>> checks for new updates but do not install them.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Eugene
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:10, Dale Tronrud wrote:
>> 
>>> FYI
>>> 
>>> I have a small herd of computers here and find it cumbersome to ssh
>>> to each and fire up ccp4i just to update the systems.  ccp4i takes a
>>> while to draw all those boxes (particularly over ssh) and leaves files
>>> behind in my disk areas on computers that I'm not likely to, personally,
>>> run crystallographic computations.  I much prefer to simply run ccp4um
>>> from the command line.
>>> 
>>> In fact, I would rather put it in cron and forget about it -- and
>>> I expect that is what --check-silent is for.  The usage statement,
>>> however, doesn't explicitly say that this installs the new updates it
>>> finds.  I'll have to experiment a bit.
>>> 
>>> Dale Tronrud
>>> 
>>> On 04/11/2013 05:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
 Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
 ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line 
 at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which 
 caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
 
 Eugene
 
 On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
 
 
 On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
 mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
 mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
 
 No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
 descriptions, was it not?
 
 
 There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
 descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information 
 was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
 
 James
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
 
 Hello All,
 
 I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
 update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
 update?
 
 James
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Scanned by iCritical.
>> 


-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Antony Oliver 
Eugene - that's great. I too run a small suite of Macs (12) and was trying to 
find a practical way of updating all those machines remotely. The command line 
version of CCP4um will be very useful. 

Many thanks. 

Tony. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:19, "eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk" 
 wrote:

> Dear Dale,
> 
> From next CCP4 release (due soon), ccp4um will be runnable from command line 
> in automatic, non-graphical mode, fully cronable. I hope that that will give 
> you what you want.  "--check-silent" is a special option for ccp4i, it only 
> checks for new updates but do not install them.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Eugene
> 
> 
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:10, Dale Tronrud wrote:
> 
>> FYI
>> 
>>  I have a small herd of computers here and find it cumbersome to ssh
>> to each and fire up ccp4i just to update the systems.  ccp4i takes a
>> while to draw all those boxes (particularly over ssh) and leaves files
>> behind in my disk areas on computers that I'm not likely to, personally,
>> run crystallographic computations.  I much prefer to simply run ccp4um
>> from the command line.
>> 
>>  In fact, I would rather put it in cron and forget about it -- and
>> I expect that is what --check-silent is for.  The usage statement,
>> however, doesn't explicitly say that this installs the new updates it
>> finds.  I'll have to experiment a bit.
>> 
>> Dale Tronrud
>> 
>> On 04/11/2013 05:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
>>> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line 
>>> at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which 
>>> caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
>>> 
>>> Eugene
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
>>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
>>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
>>> descriptions, was it not?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
>>> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information 
>>> was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
>>> 
>>> James
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
>>> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
>>> update?
>>> 
>>> James
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scanned by iCritical.
>

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread eugene . krissinel 
In promise for next release.

On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 11, 2013, at 6:17 AM, 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:

Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
all ?:)).

Scriptability.


On Apr 11, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Jim Pflugrath wrote:
I think James gets to 'fight' like in the old game of rogue by pressing the h, 
j, k, l keys on his keyboard (not a detachable one either).  While Eugene gets 
to use a modern game controller or a Wii.

Ooops, game is already over and James [Holton] has lost.


But he wrote the game.

James



-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread eugene . krissinel 
Dear Dale,

>From next CCP4 release (due soon), ccp4um will be runnable from command line 
>in automatic, non-graphical mode, fully cronable. I hope that that will give 
>you what you want.  "--check-silent" is a special option for ccp4i, it only 
>checks for new updates but do not install them.

Best regards,

Eugene


On 11 Apr 2013, at 18:10, Dale Tronrud wrote:

> FYI
> 
>   I have a small herd of computers here and find it cumbersome to ssh
> to each and fire up ccp4i just to update the systems.  ccp4i takes a
> while to draw all those boxes (particularly over ssh) and leaves files
> behind in my disk areas on computers that I'm not likely to, personally,
> run crystallographic computations.  I much prefer to simply run ccp4um
> from the command line.
> 
>   In fact, I would rather put it in cron and forget about it -- and
> I expect that is what --check-silent is for.  The usage statement,
> however, doesn't explicitly say that this installs the new updates it
> finds.  I'll have to experiment a bit.
> 
> Dale Tronrud
> 
> On 04/11/2013 05:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
>> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
>> all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which 
>> caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
>> 
>> Eugene
>> 
>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
>> descriptions, was it not?
>> 
>> 
>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
>> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information 
>> was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
>> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
>> update?
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread James Stroud 

On Apr 11, 2013, at 6:17 AM,  
 wrote:

> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
> all ?:)).

Scriptability.


On Apr 11, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Jim Pflugrath wrote:
> I think James gets to 'fight' like in the old game of rogue by pressing the 
> h, j, k, l keys on his keyboard (not a detachable one either).  While Eugene 
> gets to use a modern game controller or a Wii.
> 
> Ooops, game is already over and James [Holton] has lost.


But he wrote the game.

James

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Dale Tronrud 

FYI

   I have a small herd of computers here and find it cumbersome to ssh
to each and fire up ccp4i just to update the systems.  ccp4i takes a
while to draw all those boxes (particularly over ssh) and leaves files
behind in my disk areas on computers that I'm not likely to, personally,
run crystallographic computations.  I much prefer to simply run ccp4um
from the command line.

   In fact, I would rather put it in cron and forget about it -- and
I expect that is what --check-silent is for.  The usage statement,
however, doesn't explicitly say that this installs the new updates it
finds.  I'll have to experiment a bit.

Dale Tronrud

On 04/11/2013 05:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:

Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which caused 
lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:

No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
descriptions, was it not?


There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information was trying to 
be communicated because of your message (see attachment).

James






On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

Hello All,

I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final update?

James

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Jim Pflugrath 
I think James gets to 'fight' like in the old game of rogue by pressing the h, 
j, k, l keys on his keyboard (not a detachable one either).  While Eugene gets 
to use a modern game controller or a Wii.

Ooops, game is already over and James has lost.

Jim



From: CCP4 bulletin board [CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] on behalf of Felix Frolow 
[mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il]
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:25 AM
To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

I would serve as a second in this duel, but I respect very much both engaged is 
this duel…
Drop you pistols or swords !
:-)
Dr Felix Frolow
Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular 
Microbiology and Biotechnology
Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel

Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor

e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il<mailto:mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il>
Tel:  ++972-3640-8723
Fax: ++972-3640-9407
Cellular: 0547 459 608

On Apr 11, 2013, at 18:46 , 
eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:

That's really hard. Duel?

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 16:32, James Holton wrote:


CCP4 has a GUI?

-James Holton
MAD Scientist

On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, 
eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which caused 
lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk><mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>>
 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk><mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>>
 wrote:

No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
descriptions, was it not?


There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information was 
trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).

James






On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

Hello All,

I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final update?

James







--
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Felix Frolow 
I would serve as a second in this duel, but I respect very much both engaged is 
this duel…
Drop you pistols or swords !
:-)
Dr Felix Frolow   
Professor of Structural Biology and Biotechnology, Department of Molecular 
Microbiology and Biotechnology
Tel Aviv University 69978, Israel

Acta Crystallographica F, co-editor

e-mail: mbfro...@post.tau.ac.il
Tel:  ++972-3640-8723
Fax: ++972-3640-9407
Cellular: 0547 459 608

On Apr 11, 2013, at 18:46 , eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:

> That's really hard. Duel?
> 
> Eugene
> 
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 16:32, James Holton wrote:
> 
>> 
>> CCP4 has a GUI?
>> 
>> -James Holton
>> MAD Scientist
>> 
>> On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
>>> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line 
>>> at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which 
>>> caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
>>> 
>>> Eugene
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
>>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
>>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
>>> descriptions, was it not?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
>>> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information 
>>> was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
>>> 
>>> James
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
>>> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
>>> update?
>>> 
>>> James
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scanned by iCritical.
>

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread Tim Wiegels 
Fight Fight Fight!

On Apr 11, 2013, at 5:46 PM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:

> That's really hard. Duel?
> 
> Eugene
> 
> On 11 Apr 2013, at 16:32, James Holton wrote:
> 
>> 
>> CCP4 has a GUI?
>> 
>> -James Holton
>> MAD Scientist
>> 
>> On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
>>> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line 
>>> at all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which 
>>> caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
>>> 
>>> Eugene
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
>>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
>>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
>>> descriptions, was it not?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
>>> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information 
>>> was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
>>> 
>>> James
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
>>> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
>>> update?
>>> 
>>> James
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scanned by iCritical.
>

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread eugene . krissinel 
That's really hard. Duel?

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 16:32, James Holton wrote:

> 
> CCP4 has a GUI?
> 
> -James Holton
> MAD Scientist
> 
> On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:
>> Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
>> ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
>> all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which 
>> caused lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.
>> 
>> Eugene
>> 
>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
>> mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
>> descriptions, was it not?
>> 
>> 
>> There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
>> descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information 
>> was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
>> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
>> update?
>> 
>> James
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 


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Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread James Holton 

CCP4 has a GUI?

-James Holton
MAD Scientist

On 4/11/2013 5:17 AM, eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk wrote:

Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which caused 
lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:

No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
descriptions, was it not?


There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information was trying to 
be communicated because of your message (see attachment).

James






On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

Hello All,

I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final update?

James

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-11 Thread eugene . krissinel 
Sorry that this was unclear. We assume that updater is used primarily from 
ccp4i, where nothing changed (and why it should be used from command line at 
all ?:)). The name was changed because it is reserved in Windows, which caused 
lots of troubles. Now it will stay as is.

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 05:16, James Stroud wrote:


On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM, 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> 
mailto:eugene.krissi...@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:

No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
descriptions, was it not?


There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update 
descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information was 
trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).

James






On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

Hello All,

I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final update?

James




-- 
Scanned by iCritical.

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-10 Thread James Stroud 
On Apr 10, 2013, at 9:30 PM,   wrote:No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update descriptions, was it not?There was only one mention of "ccp4um" that I could find in all update descriptions that I found (6.3.0-020). I only figured out what information was trying to be communicated because of your message (see attachment).JamesOn 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:Hello All,I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final update?James

Re: [ccp4bb] CCP4 Update victim of own success

2013-04-10 Thread eugene . krissinel 
No, it got renamed to ccp4um :) That should have been written in update 
descriptions, was it not?

Eugene

On 11 Apr 2013, at 03:54, James Stroud wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I downloaded a crispy new version of CCP4 and ran update until the update 
> update script disappeared. Is the reason that CCP4 has reached its final 
> update?
> 
> James


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