RE: Mentec manuals

[Dave Wade]

> 
> The only place the "Compaq" logo appears is for the funny cover pages
which
> are very thick paper with a window to allow the manual name to show
> through.  Those very thick cover pages also used to have the DEC logo
before
> Mentec was involved.

Any thing that says "DEC" passed to "Compaq" as Compaq bought DEC lock,
stock and barrel, well excluding Digital India which was never wholly owned
any way,
> 
> Overall conclusion:  The manuals are still from DEC - nothing has changed
> since replacing the name on the thick paper cover page without ANY
> supporting reference to what the "Compaq" logo refers to may be just the
> way that Mentec attempted to portray that Mentec now owned the manual
> copyrights.
> 

As I said Compaq bought DEC. Anything DEC passed to Compaq or 

> There is ONE exception.  The Release Notes for V05.07 of RT-11 was
> prepared and produced by Mentec in 1998.  This one manual does have a
> copyright notice from Mentec!
> 
> So I would suggest that any manual prepared prior to 1994 which was
> approximately when Mentec became involved is purely from DEC and is still
> under copyright from DEC.  

DEC no longer exists. Its Compaq. (well HP now)

>And further, based on a notice from DEC
> concerning manuals which are out of print (naturally at this point all
manuals
> from DEC are out of print), DEC gave permission (I don't have a copy of
the
> actual notice - can someone please provide it) to copy all manuals.
> 
> Jerome Fine

Dave Wade Knee dave.w...@digital.com

RE: OS help needed please

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> drlegendre .
> Sent: 04 February 2016 00:13
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: OS help needed please
> 
> From the dim hazy past..
> 
> Didn't HP (USA) maintain a public FTP site loaded with drivers, docs, etc.
> for obsolete / unsupported machines? Does anyone know if that resource is
> still around?
> 
> At least your machine has a tag for Win98, so you know for a +fact+ that the
> software set you need is definitely out there, somewhere.. just a matter of
> finding it. And again, this isn't ancient history stuff.. support must have 
> been
> current through at least 2000 and sometime thereafter.
> 

Filezilla still talks to ftp.hp.com. Seems to still have personal stuff in 
there if you know the file names...

Dave

Re: .IMD diskette image file recovery

[Tony Nicholson]

[Please excuse the lack of threading - I read cctalk in digest form.]

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016, Jim Simpson wrote:

> Is there a utility that will read .IMD diskette archive files and recover
> the data?  I've found a wealth of BigBoard & BigBoard II data (and lots of
> other stuff too) on many different sites, all saved in .IMD format.  Is it
> possible to read these files and recover the data instead of writing a
> floppy disk with DiskImage?

Jim (and other cctalkers),

Grab a copy of the SIMH Altairz80 simulator from
http://schorn.ch/altair.html and the zip file of my cpmplus for the
CompuPro Disk1 controller from the Other Operating systems link at
http://schorn.ch/altair_5.php

This supports IMD disks in BB II 1.4Mb (1024byte x 9 sector) format.  You
can attach the IMD file and use the "W" command to extract files to the
host operating system -

mini:cpmplus tony$ altairz80 cpm3bk

Altair 8800 (Z80) simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: 4ff1e317

LDRBIOS for SIMH System - V3.2-Y2K 01-AUG-2008
DISK1 8" boot floppy

CPMLDR3 - CP/M V3.0 Loader
Copyright (C) 1982, Digital Research

 BNKBIOS3 SPR  FA00  0600
 BNKBIOS3 SPR  C600  1A00
 RESBDOS3 SPR  F400  0600
 BNKBDOS3 SPR  9800  2E00

 61K TPA

CP/M Plus for SIMH System - V3.2-Y2K 06-AUG-2008
Banked memory
CCP loads from A: and reloads from bank 0
DISK2 dual 20Mb M20 winchesters (A-F)
DISK1 8" (I-L) [BB-II] floppies


A>SETDEF * A: [ORDER=(COM,SUB) DISPLAY UK]

Drive Search Path:
1st Drive- Default
2nd Drive- A:

Search Order - COM, SUB
Program Name Display - On
Date format used - UK

A>  
Simulation stopped, PC: 0FE8F (AND 02h)
sim> att disk1a3 ../s100/BB2-011.IMD
sim> go

A>l:

%FDDISK1 unit 3 is type BigBoard-II 1024x9 Read-Only
L>dir
L: BULLETIN : BYE  COM : CALL-JAN PQN : COMMANDS HLP : DIR  COM
L: ELAPSED  COM : HELP COM : HELP HLP : INFO : MAGAZINE HLP
L: MBOOTASM : NEWS : PAMSFEB1 0Q6 : PASSWORD COM : RBBS COM
L: TYPE COM : USERDISK CQT : WHATSNEW HLP : XYAM COM : XYAMHELP T
SYSTEM FILE(S) EXIST
L>w
A:WCOM

WRITE V-1.17 (01-Mar-08)  SIMH Interface V004
Usage: WRITE  [B|T]
Copy  to host environment. Default is text, B for binary, T for
Text

Examples
WRITE BDOS.MAC  copy BDOS.MAC as text file
WRITE PIP.COM B copy PIP.COM as binary file
WRITE PIP.COM   copy PIP.COM as binary file [.COM .REL .DAT imply B]
WRITE TEST.DAT Tcopy TEST.DAT as text file
WRITE *.COM copy all files matching *.COM as binary files
WRITE SRC/BDOS.MAC  copy BDOS.MAC to directory SRC as a text file
WRITE COM/*.COM B   copy *.COM to directory COM as binary files

L>w type.com b
A:WCOM

WRITE V-1.17 (01-Mar-08)  SIMH Interface V004
Write "TYPE.COM" to "TYPE.COM".
3.5kB written (Binary).

If you need to support other CP/M disk formats, the BIOS source files and
submit files to put them together are in the A1: directory on the hard disk
image.  There's also CP/M program to make IMD disk images natively under
CP/M-Plus in A3: (it will span the IMD file across multiple floppies if the
image file is too large). I used this to copy all my 8" floppies (including
BB II ones) to IMD images.

Tony

-- 
Tony Nicholson 

Re: .IMD diskette image file recovery

[Curious Marc]

Yes, Fred is right, I assumed from your question that you wanted the raw binary 
data without the .imd sectoring info. To get the files back, you then need a 
way to mount that binary image on your target machine or emulator so it can 
read the file system. What is the target machine? What file system is on the 
disk?
Marc

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

>> > Is there a utility that will read .IMD diskette archive files and > 
>> > recover the data?
> [...]
> curiousmarc3 seems to assume that you want a file containing the bytes on the 
> disk in the order that they are on the disk (BTW, sectors are not always in 
> consecutive order, and files can be fragmented all over a disk), whereas I am 
> assuming that you want a bunch of separate files, each of which contains the 
> bytes that were in a file on the original disk, and rearranged into the 
> sequence that they were within those files on the 
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

DEC Dual 1173 cpu with rack available

[Jay West]

I received the following this morning

--
I recently acquired a pdp11/73 with dual CPUs and am looking to sell it.
Would you know anyone interested.
I would like this to survive and wish to find it a good home.I live In
Massachusetts.
--

The person also gave me a picture, which I posted (temporarily) at
http://www.ezwind.net/pdp1173/

This particular machine is too new for my tastes, but the dual cpu (and
status panel) is rather unusual.

If anyone is interested, please email me off-list and I'll forward the
contact details.

Best,

J

HP 9815

[pdaguytom .]

I recently picked up an HP 9815s ( was originally an 'a' model but was
upgraded with an 's' cpu board and the option 002 i/o long before me), that
displays the "---" when turned on.  I've scrounged through
Google and learned that this particular display is generated by the display
board when it has nothing else better to do to direct its attention.  After
checking that the power supply was putting out the recommended voltages and
chasing the +5v around the cpu board and puzzling that for a bit, I've
checked for activity at the cpu and found no voltage at all being applied
at Vcc the cpu.  I've been studying Tony Duell's schematic for the
9815(thank you Mr. Duell), but have not found a reason why this voltage
might not be present.  Is Vcc switched somewhere?  I done some meager
sleuthing of the traces around the 6800 and think I chased Vcc to a
transistor close by, but need to investigate further this weekend.  Anyone
chased this type of failure on the 9815 or traced out wether this Vcc is
applied at power on or switched by some logic at the power supply board?

Puzzled, but determined,
Tom

Re: .IMD diskette image file recovery

[Mark J. Blair]

If you want raw data from an IMD file in some order other than the physical 
ordering on the original media, my Python package that I linked to previously 
may be helpful. It may also require some coding, but the supplied classes make 
it pretty easy for somebody with Python familiarity to access the contents of 
arbitrary sectors in a .IMD file.

Even without Python programming experience, the command-line utility that comes 
with the package makes it easy to take a .IMD file, remove sector interleave so 
that the physical and logical sector ordering are the same, and then write out 
a new .IMD file to be processed by any other .IMD-aware programs. For example, 
to convert "foo.imd" to a new file "bar.imd" with no sector interleave:

  imdutil.py --load foo.imd --interleave 0 --save bar.imd

It doesn't understand any filesystems - yet - but it may still be helpful. 
Documentation is admittedly lacking... the command-line utility has built-in 
help which can be accessed by the typical -h or --help arguments, and the 
classes have embedded docstrings which (savvy Python folks) can access with 
pydoc. And it has a unit test suite which I think tests it all out with 
reasonable thoroughness.

Here's the --help output from the included utility script, to give y'all an 
idea of what it does:


~% imdutil.py -h
usage: imdutil.py [-h] [-l FILENAME] [-s FILENAME] [-S] [-D] [-i SKIP]
  [-k SECTOR_NUM] [-u C.H.S] [-U]

ImageDisk (.IMD) utility version 1.0.0a1
  Copyright (C) 2016 Mark J. Blair, released under GPLv3
  https://github.com/NF6X/pyImageDisk
  https://github.com/NF6X/pyImageDisk

Arguments are processed in the order encountered, with cumulative effects
upon the disk image buffer. The disk image buffer is discarded at program
exit. Arguments may be abbreviated.

optional arguments:
  -h, --helpshow this help message and exit
  -l FILENAME, --load FILENAME
Load disk image buffer from file, replacing previous
buffer contents.
  -s FILENAME, --save FILENAME
Save disk image buffer to file.
  -S, --summary Print summary of image contents.
  -D, --details Print detailed description of image contents.
  -i SKIP, --interleave SKIP
Interleave sectors with specified skip factor.
  -k SECTOR_NUM, --skew SECTOR_NUM
Rotate sector order to place sectors with specified
sector number after index pulse.
  -u C.H.S, --dumpsector C.H.S
Print hexadecimal dump of sector. Specify the sector
in cylinder.head.sector format. Use physical cylinder
and head numbers, and logical sector number.
  -U, --dumpall Print hexadecimal dump of all sectors, in physical
order.

Example:
  imdutil.py --load mydisk.imd --summary



-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: .IMD diskette image file recovery

[Eric Smith]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Mark J. Blair  wrote:
> If you want raw data from an IMD file in some order other than the physical 
> ordering on the original media, my Python package that I linked to previously 
> may be helpful. It may also require some coding, but the supplied classes 
> make it pretty easy for somebody with Python familiarity to access the 
> contents of arbitrary sectors in a .IMD file.

Excellent timing for your message. I was just thinking about Python
code to access imd files, and that I might have to spend some time
writing such, and there it is. It's like Christmas! Woo-hoo!

that pdp-11/04 with floppy disks...

[Jay West]

Delayed response, work has been busy. That deal was passed off to the first
responder so it has likely been claimed. If that deal doesn't work out, I'll
email the next person on the list :)

But do not fret... I just see another user sent me an email today about
wanting to get rid of a machine... will post that one shortly ;)

J

Re: Mystery system

[William Donzelli]

Some models of 3420s were 7 track.

--
Will



On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> On 02/04/2016 07:48 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:
>>
>>
>>I'm trying to identify a system which appeared in "The Killer Elite"
>> (1975), with a room full of tape drives and a couple of terminals:
>>
>> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-1.png
>> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-2.png
>> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-6.png
>> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-9.png
>>
>>The drives appear to be IBM 3420s, but with an additional box on top,
>> labeled "SMS".  The system itself doesn't appear in any of the shots. Some
>> sort of IBM 370, perhaps?
>>
> I'm thinking they might be 2420's.  They have a "9" label on the head cover.
> This is to distinguish 9-track from 7-track drives, I don't think they put
> those labels on 3420 drives.
>
> The drive addresses are 5xx, meaning they are attached to channel 5 on the
> CPU.  That is not impossible on a 360, but few 360's could handle that many
> channels.  The cluster of 3270's also suggests a 370 system, although they
> certainly could be used on 360's.
>
> The SMS boxes displayed the volume label of the tape to mount. Mounting the
> wrong tape was a BIG problem in large systems, so a number of vendors came
> up with these sorts of schemes to try to reduce those errors.
>
> Jon

Re: Mystery system

[Jon Elson]

On 02/04/2016 07:48 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:


   I'm trying to identify a system which appeared in "The 
Killer Elite" (1975), with a room full of tape drives and 
a couple of terminals:


http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-1.png
http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-2.png
http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-6.png
http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-9.png

   The drives appear to be IBM 3420s, but with an 
additional box on top, labeled "SMS".  The system itself 
doesn't appear in any of the shots. Some sort of IBM 370, 
perhaps?


I'm thinking they might be 2420's.  They have a "9" label on 
the head cover.  This is to distinguish 9-track from 7-track 
drives, I don't think they put those labels on 3420 drives.


The drive addresses are 5xx, meaning they are attached to 
channel 5 on the CPU.  That is not impossible on a 360, but 
few 360's could handle that many channels.  The cluster of 
3270's also suggests a 370 system, although they certainly 
could be used on 360's.


The SMS boxes displayed the volume label of the tape to 
mount. Mounting the wrong tape was a BIG problem in large 
systems, so a number of vendors came up with these sorts of 
schemes to try to reduce those errors.


Jon

Mystery system

[Mike Loewen]

   I'm trying to identify a system which appeared in "The Killer Elite" 
(1975), with a room full of tape drives and a couple of terminals:


http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-1.png
http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-2.png
http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-6.png
http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-9.png

   The drives appear to be IBM 3420s, but with an additional box on top, 
labeled "SMS".  The system itself doesn't appear in any of the shots. 
Some sort of IBM 370, perhaps?



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: NeXTstation booting, NetInfo, and NTP

[Jerry Weiss]

On Jan 25, 2016, at 7:28 AM, Pete Turnbull  wrote:
> 
> Yesterday I dug out my NexTstation (68040 25MHz slab with 32MB of 100ns 
> SIMMs) which has OpenStep 4.2 for Mach installed.  The lithium battery was 
> flat and it wouldn't boot so I've ordered a replacement and temporarily 
> kludged a pair of alkaline AAs to get it going. So far, so good, though it 
> thinks today is September 6 2001 :-)
> 
> Then I used SimpleNetworkStarter, set to "Use the network, but don't share 
> administrative data".  I've also edited /etc/hostconfig and reslv.conf to 
> sensible values (eg TIME=-NO-) so it now boots quite quickly.
> 
> Is there a way to disable NetInfo completely, and if so will things like DNS 
> lookups still work?
> 
> Is there an easy way to make it get its time/date settings from my NTP 
> server?  During startup it does claim to start netinfo, lookupd, ntpd (see 
> below), then inetd,
> 
> I have an SGI running IRIX which is my DHCP, DNS, and NTP server, and  I plan 
> to set up the NexT to use DHCP to get its IP address etc (it's static ATM).
> 

You cannot disable Netinfo on that version of Openstep.   Its integrated too 
tightly with the system.   See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetInfo 


For NTP turn on TIME=-Automatic-  and in Netinfo add an ip address for the 
reference to /locations/ntp/server.   You might need to force the first sync 
via ntp -v -F

Re: Mentec manuals

[Paul Koning]

> On Feb 4, 2016, at 5:06 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> The only place the "Compaq" logo appears is for the funny cover pages
> which
>> are very thick paper with a window to allow the manual name to show
>> through.  Those very thick cover pages also used to have the DEC logo
> before
>> Mentec was involved.
> 
> Any thing that says "DEC" passed to "Compaq" as Compaq bought DEC lock,
> stock and barrel, well excluding Digital India which was never wholly owned
> any way,

...and of course, excluding all the bits of DEC that were sold off piecemeal by 
the butcher CEO before Compaq swooped in to grab the remaining carcass.  Bits 
like the semiconductor division (to Intel), the networking division (to 
Cabletron) and possibly others that I've forgotten about.

paul

Re: BC11A Cable ends

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Guy Sotomayor

> When I have some time .. I'll fire up my 11/40 .. and then re-cable it
> using cables with a pair of BC11A-T ends and some ribbon cable. I'll
> run memory diagnostics on it for a while (I have 128KW of memory on it
> split between two racks, so this should be a good test) and see how it
> does

Might be interesting to throw a 'scope on a line on each end of the cable,
and see how things look after making it through the cable.

Noel

Re: R: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Dale H. Cook]

At 09:07 AM 2/4/2016, Mazzini Alessandro wrote:

>... so I would not consider them as safe ...

The closest thing to a "safe" computer is one that is disconnected from all 
communications links, powered down, and locked in a vault.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Dale H. Cook]

At 08:08 AM 2/4/2016, Liam Proven wrote:

>But NT is a better OS in every important or material way.

It is unusable in one important way. This thread began as a discussion of 
running serial port terminal emulators on a PC. At work I still use some MS-DOS 
programs (admittedly not terminal emulators) over serial ports. For my purposes 
(setting up a variety of vintage specialized hardware over RS-232) NT-based 
operating systems are sometimes unusable because they present the application 
program with a virtual serial port, and MS-DOS programs running under those 
operating systems cannot read from or write to the UART registers. Some of the 
setup programs for that vintage hardware were written before the mid-1990s and 
access the UART registers, so I have to run those under Win98 or earlier. I 
have a portable MS-DOS 3.3 machine that I use to set up that vintage hardware.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

Re: ISO: VAX-11/750

[Jim Carpenter]

On Feb 4, 2016 01:30, "Mark J. Blair"  wrote:
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 2016, at 20:37, Lee Courtney  wrote:
> >
> > Date on the 730 notice is Aug 2009 - I suspect it is long gone by now.
:-(
>
> Where do you see that? The listing states:
>
> "Status: Open 2/1/16 - 02/07/16 23:59:00"
>

Lee must have quickly glanced at the message and seen the join date of the
author and thought it was the date of the message. I've done that a few
times on vintage-computer.com.

Jim

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 2/4/2016 8:08 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
Nothing older than Win7 on any Windows 
PC that accesses the Internet. This 
includes email.


Well, my 2 cents: I still use WinXP for 
all my primary, workhorse machines.  
Rarely have any issues with it.Win7 
is ok but annoyingly 
over-user-friendly.Win 98, though... 
I don't see the point of using it any 
more.  It can't do anything that XP 
can't do far better.


- J.

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Liam Proven]

On 4 February 2016 at 15:17, Dale H. Cook  wrote:
> It is unusable in one important way. This thread began as a discussion of 
> running serial port terminal emulators on a PC. At work I still use some 
> MS-DOS programs (admittedly not terminal emulators) over serial ports. For my 
> purposes (setting up a variety of vintage specialized hardware over RS-232) 
> NT-based operating systems are sometimes unusable because they present the 
> application program with a virtual serial port, and MS-DOS programs running 
> under those operating systems cannot read from or write to the UART 
> registers. Some of the setup programs for that vintage hardware were written 
> before the mid-1990s and access the UART registers, so I have to run those 
> under Win98 or earlier. I have a portable MS-DOS 3.3 machine that I use to 
> set up that vintage hardware.

A fair point, but then, one is not going to use MS-DOS to browse the
Web in 2016, right? Even the handful of ancient DOS web browsers can't
handle the modern Web.

There's a big difference between a "daily driver" and a specialist tool.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Liam Proven]

On 4 February 2016 at 15:07, Mazzini Alessandro  wrote:
>
> I would disagree on this point. Unix and linux, in all its flavours, had 
> plenty of security fixes in the same timeframe mentioned, so I would not 
> consider them as safe as etc
>
> That they are less obvious to attack, in comparison, is another thing.


Oh yes, true, but you need to think about the roles.

Unix was traditionally mostly used as a /server./ The exploits and
malware are about getting remote access to a server, or at least
taking it offline or rendering it inaccessible.

Windows is primarily a client OS, used for surfing, email, chat,
downloading & running programs, etc.

/Totally/ different usage patterns.

And the vast success of OS X as a client -- now the most successful
closed-source UNIX® of all time, with more installed seats than all
the others ever put together -- compared with the small amount of
malware and very few successful exploits, shows the difference.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Liam Proven]

On 4 February 2016 at 15:57, j...@cimmeri.com  wrote:
> Well, my 2 cents: I still use WinXP for all my primary, workhorse machines.
> Rarely have any issues with it.

I *really* hope you've applied the registry hack to get EposReady
updates for it, then!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/26/german_tinkerer_gets_around_xpocalypse/

>Win7 is ok but annoyingly
> over-user-friendly.

Agreed. I don't like the ribbons, the new fake-folders in Explorer --
but it works, it's supported and updated.

>  Win 98, though... I don't see the point of using it
> any more.  It can't do anything that XP can't do far better.

Agreed, as far as Win32 apps go. DOS stuff, though, no. :(

To answer your offlist question, BTW: I am typing on an original Apple
Extended II keyboard attached to a 2011 Mac mini running OS X 10.10,
though an ADB-USB convertor.

My laptops run Ubuntu although I experiment regularly with all the
mainstream contenders. The workhorse is an old, cheap Thinkpad X200
with Ubuntu 14.04, the latest long-term support version. The
desktop-replacement, now sidelined by the Mac, has Ubuntu 15.10,
ArchLinux, CrunchBang and others.

Both the PCs can dual-boot into Win7, although I don't use it as much
as every *year* these days, so this always means a ton of updates
before I can do anything.

The Mac has a Win10 VM on it, just for playing with. I don't like it
much, to be honest. The last Windows version I really liked was
Windows 2000 -- since then, the bloat has piled on for little reward.
XP can be stripped down to nearly as lean as W2K, though. I sometimes
run the TinyXP 3rd party distro inside VMs.

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: DEC Dual 1173 cpu with rack available

[Ian S. King]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Jay West  wrote:

> I received the following this morning
>
> --
> I recently acquired a pdp11/73 with dual CPUs and am looking to sell it.
> Would you know anyone interested.
> I would like this to survive and wish to find it a good home.I live In
> Massachusetts.
> --
>
> The person also gave me a picture, which I posted (temporarily) at
> http://www.ezwind.net/pdp1173/
>
> This particular machine is too new for my tastes, but the dual cpu (and
> status panel) is rather unusual.
>
> If anyone is interested, please email me off-list and I'll forward the
> contact details.
>
> Best,
>
> J
>
>
>
OMG that's sexy... but I'm on the wrong coast.I really like my
11/73.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Bull DPX/2 and B.O.S. help wanted.

[Pontus]

On 02/03/2016 09:35 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:

Hello,

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:

I have a OS install kit with bootable floppies and I managed to get a
prompt using the "boot_unix" floppy and following the manuals that I
have.

However, not even "ls" would work from this prompt, only "cat". (You are
supposed to enter "os_install", but I don't want to mess up the existing
installtion.


I don't have experience with Bull at all. However, I have some
experience with other limited environments.
Does "echo" work?
If it does, you can try "echo *" as a (poor) substitute for "ls".
Apologies if you already know this.

HTH


Rather obvious, but I hadn't though of it. Thank you. Will try it next time.

/P

Re: OS help needed please

[drlegendre .]

Hey yeah, there it is.. and here I hadn't even bothered to try it.

Don't know if it contains what the OP needs, but at least the site is still
there..

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctech [mailto:cctech-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
> > drlegendre .
> > Sent: 04 February 2016 00:13
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts 
> > Subject: Re: OS help needed please
> >
> > From the dim hazy past..
> >
> > Didn't HP (USA) maintain a public FTP site loaded with drivers, docs,
> etc.
> > for obsolete / unsupported machines? Does anyone know if that resource is
> > still around?
> >
> > At least your machine has a tag for Win98, so you know for a +fact+ that
> the
> > software set you need is definitely out there, somewhere.. just a matter
> of
> > finding it. And again, this isn't ancient history stuff.. support must
> have been
> > current through at least 2000 and sometime thereafter.
> >
>
> Filezilla still talks to ftp.hp.com. Seems to still have personal stuff
> in there if you know the file names...
>
> Dave
>
>

Re: Mystery system

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Feb-04, at 5:48 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:
>   I'm trying to identify a system which appeared in "The Killer Elite" 
> (1975), with a room full of tape drives and a couple of terminals:
> 
> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-1.png
> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-2.png
> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-6.png
> http://q7.neurotica.com/killer-9.png
> 
>   The drives appear to be IBM 3420s, but with an additional box on top, 
> labeled "SMS".  The system itself doesn't appear in any of the shots. Some 
> sort of IBM 370, perhaps?

Funny, I've been doing a bit of a Peckinpah retrospective and watched that two 
nights ago.

Noticed the computer equipment of course but concluded about as much as you 
did: IBM drives and 3270-ish terminals, hence IBM shop; no CPU visible but 370 
era.

Re: Mystery system

[Jon Elson]

On 02/04/2016 11:22 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 02/04/2016 08:25 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 02/04/2016 08:57 PM, William Donzelli wrote:

Some models of 3420s were 7 track.


Yes, I suppose there was a need in some installations to 
handle old,
 archival tapes.  But, I certainly never saw one.  Most 
sites got rid

of their 7-tk stuff as soon as they could.


Some 6-bit systems hung around for a very long time.  E.g. 
CDC CYBER 170/180.  7-track drives for those never really 
went out of fashion until well into the 1980s.


Here's a 1981 CW article that specifically mentions the 
CDC 667 in the drive inventory of McDonnell Douglas 
automation.DP center:


http://bit.ly/23MFZOb

I was there on a tour, a few years earlier.  I think they 
still had the model 195 at the time.
A vast facility filled with big blue boxes.  The basement 
had so many 415 Hz UPS's that you had to stick your fingers 
in your ears.


Jon

Re: Mystery system

[Jim Stephens]

On 2/4/2016 9:30 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
I was there on a tour, a few years earlier.  I think they still had 
the model 195 at the time.
A vast facility filled with big blue boxes. 
They had two 195's at McAuto in STL.  We may have gone on the same tour, 
probably in 72 or so.  I am not sure if it was organized by the ACM in 
Rolla or if you went at a later time.


A later tour of the new facility had made arrangements for similar real 
estate to the original building, but the main computer room had a small 
cluster of systems in the middle of a big empty room which was quite 
amusing.  And we were in an observation gallery which was actually 
converted raised floor area they converted to office use after the 
original design was well under way.  Almost 1/2 of the space was used 
for offices but was originally going to be computer floor.


Anyway, if this was a facility like the Mc Auto facility we toured there 
was a processor and tape floor, DASD on the next floor down, and the 
basement had systems with printers and power.  The tape library and cpu 
systems was on the top main floor.


This could have been in such a facility.  Mc Auto was designed to be 
vertical so the channel cables could be dropped to storage directors on 
the floor below from systems above.


The printing was done with 360/40's and the like, and was for people who 
needed local printing (and they had a lot of it).


thanks
Jim

R: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Mazzini Alessandro]

>Retro computing is a great hobby, even a way of life, but whereas a 
>decades-old copy of anything from Linux to Multics is as >safe today as it 
>ever was, OSes of the Internet era *cannot* be used safely once they're well 
>out of date. Old viruses are still >out there, waiting to pounce.

I would disagree on this point. Unix and linux, in all its flavours, had plenty 
of security fixes in the same timeframe mentioned, so I would not consider them 
as safe as etc

That they are less obvious to attack, in comparison, is another thing.

R: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Mazzini Alessandro]

Eheheh,

except that solaris had a good installed base of workstations too, and Hp-ux 
tended to have the same (to make some examples). Technically clients 

-Messaggio originale-
Da: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Per conto di Liam Proven
Inviato: giovedì 4 febbraio 2016 15:17
A: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Oggetto: Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

On 4 February 2016 at 15:07, Mazzini Alessandro  wrote:
>
> I would disagree on this point. Unix and linux, in all its flavours, 
> had plenty of security fixes in the same timeframe mentioned, so I 
> would not consider them as safe as etc
>
> That they are less obvious to attack, in comparison, is another thing.


Oh yes, true, but you need to think about the roles.

Unix was traditionally mostly used as a /server./ The exploits and malware are 
about getting remote access to a server, or at least taking it offline or 
rendering it inaccessible.

Windows is primarily a client OS, used for surfing, email, chat, downloading & 
running programs, etc.

/Totally/ different usage patterns.

And the vast success of OS X as a client -- now the most successful 
closed-source UNIX® of all time, with more installed seats than all the others 
ever put together -- compared with the small amount of malware and very few 
successful exploits, shows the difference.


--
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: BC11A Cable ends

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Feb 4, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Noel Chiappa  wrote:
> 
>> From: Guy Sotomayor
> 
>> When I have some time .. I'll fire up my 11/40 .. and then re-cable it
>> using cables with a pair of BC11A-T ends and some ribbon cable. I'll
>> run memory diagnostics on it for a while (I have 128KW of memory on it
>> split between two racks, so this should be a good test) and see how it
>> does
> 
> Might be interesting to throw a 'scope on a line on each end of the cable,
> and see how things look after making it through the cable.

Yea, that’s probably one of the things that I’ll do to check it out.  I’d 
probably
want dig out my UA11 to make probing easier.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: .IMD diskette image file recovery

[curiousmarc3]

Yes, if you download the original imd, in the package there is a simple to use 
command line utility to do just that. Writing from memory, IMD2BIN.EXE or 
something like that.
Marc

> On Feb 3, 2016, at 4:56 PM, Jim Simpson  wrote:
> 
> Is there a utility that will read .IMD diskette archive files and recover
> the data?  I've found a wealth of BigBoard & BigBoard II data (and lots of
> other stuff too) on many different sites, all saved in .IMD format.  Is it
> possible to read these files and recover the data instead of writing a
> floppy disk with DiskImage?
> 
> Thanks, Jim Simpson
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: ISO: VAX-11/750

[B M]

Josh,

Where are you located?  I might have a Vax-11/750 up for sale.
Unfortunately, I did have to pay real money for it, so I am looking for
$500.  I am located near Calgary Alberta Canada.  I can let you know
additional details if you are interested.

--barrym

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:41 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:

> So, I figure it's unlikely, but I've been jonesing for a "larger" VAX and
> I'd like to track down an 11/750 (or an 11/730).  If anyone out there has
> one for sale trade (in any condition apart from "pile of slag"), let me
> know.  I have DEC and various other gear for trade.
>
> Thanks as always!
> - Josh
>
>

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Andrew M Hoerter]

On 2/4/16 10:12, Liam Proven wrote:


Win7 is ok but annoyingly
over-user-friendly.


Agreed. I don't like the ribbons, the new fake-folders in Explorer --
but it works, it's supported and updated.


Yes, provided you're willing to sift through the available updates and 
hide all the Microsoft spyware... err, "telemetry" patches and the 
increasingly coercive Windows 10 upgrade offers.


For many people, the time cost and risk of doing that has exceeded any 
benefit gained from updating Windows at all.

Re: Virtualizing AIX 1.3 - WAS::::Re: AIX for IBM PS/2

[Guy Sotomayor]

> On Feb 4, 2016, at 12:18 AM, Jonathan Katz  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Jerry Kemp  wrote:
>> All this AIX 1.x on Intel talk has me wanting to look at it deeper.
>> 
>> Does anyone have AIX 1.3 running on VirtualBox ?
>> 
>> Thanks,
> 
> This was talked about a while back. The PS/2 (x86) version of AIX
> required some specific hardware with an MCA bus and oddball SCSI chips
> that are not emulated in any modern emulator (VMWare, VirtualBox,
> etc.) Supposedly there was a later beta version of AIX for x86 that
> had support for more standard ISA and SCSI hardware but it never made
> it outside IBM.

Yes, the SCSI adapters that worked on AIX PS/2 were the “spock” and
“tribble” boards.  They were “intelligent” adapters.  The OS would build up
a high level list of commands and write the address of the start of the 
command list to the card.  The card would do all the requisite DMAs to get
the command list and data and generate an interrupt when the command
list was complete.

There was some work to take the AIX PS/2 SCSI subsystem (I wrote it) and
make it work on Adaptec SCSI controllers.  However, that work was never
productized.  I was moving off of the AIX PS/2 at that time to help start the
team that would eventually do the IBM Microkernel product and OS/2 for the
PowerPC.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Dale H. Cook]

At 11:08 AM 2/4/2016, Ethan O'Toole wrote:

>If you're trying to bitbang the RS232 port to decode POCSAG or something 
>perhaps.

Not quite - this is not an asynchronous protocol, this is single-purpose 
software written decades ago to communicate with highly specialized hardware 
that is still in use.

>If you're trying to use old Windows software in more modern versions of 
>Windows ...

Nope, these are MS-DOS apps that require access to the UART registers. Anyone 
who thinks that MS-DOS is dead and buried doesn't have to work with some of the 
vintage (but still in use) technology that I sometimes deal with at work. I am 
certain that there are many on this list whose vocations involve decades-old 
hardware that is still in use.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

Re: Mentec manuals

[Warner Losh]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 7:47 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> > On Feb 4, 2016, at 5:06 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> The only place the "Compaq" logo appears is for the funny cover pages
> > which
> >> are very thick paper with a window to allow the manual name to show
> >> through.  Those very thick cover pages also used to have the DEC logo
> > before
> >> Mentec was involved.
> >
> > Any thing that says "DEC" passed to "Compaq" as Compaq bought DEC lock,
> > stock and barrel, well excluding Digital India which was never wholly
> owned
> > any way,
>
> ...and of course, excluding all the bits of DEC that were sold off
> piecemeal by the butcher CEO before Compaq swooped in to grab the remaining
> carcass.  Bits like the semiconductor division (to Intel), the networking
> division (to Cabletron) and possibly others that I've forgotten about.


Storage to NCR who sold it to LSI who sold it to Avago (though I may have
missed a few jumps)

Warner

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[COURYHOUSE]

just  for  grins  I  took on of the SMECC e-machines  out of back room and  
fired it up...  yea  Win 98 SE   running  just   great! last time I used  
this particular old  office system was  '07!  heh  it  has a  4   gig  
hardrive 
Ed#  _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org)  
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/4/2016 11:53:40 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
radiot...@juno.com writes:

At 11:08  AM 2/4/2016, Ethan O'Toole wrote:

>If you're trying to bitbang the  RS232 port to decode POCSAG or something 
perhaps.

Not quite - this is  not an asynchronous protocol, this is single-purpose 
software written decades  ago to communicate with highly specialized hardware 
that is still in  use.

>If you're trying to use old Windows software in more modern  versions of 
Windows ...

Nope, these are MS-DOS apps that require access  to the UART registers. 
Anyone who thinks that MS-DOS is dead and buried  doesn't have to work with 
some of the vintage (but still in use) technology  that I sometimes deal with 
at work. I am certain that there are many on this  list whose vocations 
involve decades-old hardware that is still in  use.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 /  Kaypro 1 / Amstrad  PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html  

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Dale H. Cook]

At 09:25 AM 2/4/2016, Liam Proven wrote:

>A fair point, but then, one is not going to use MS-DOS to browse the Web in 
>2016, right?

In my world it is impossible for any one computer to do everything that I need 
to do with a computer, thus my five active PCs and many spares, plus old stuff 
like my CP/M machines in my personal museum. I don't use an MS-DOS machine to 
browse, and I don't use an NT-series-OS machine to run MS-DOS programs that 
need UART register access that NT does not allow.

Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

Re: Can Windows 98SE run on an Intel I7 with SATA hard drives?

[Dale H. Cook]

At 09:57 AM 2/4/2016, J. wrote:

>I still use WinXP for all my primary, workhorse machines.

So do I. I am fully capable of keeping those machines secure online, something 
which M$ cannot do.

>Win 98, though... I don't see the point of using it any more.  It can't do 
>anything that XP can't do far better.

As I noted upstream, XP is useless for MS-DOS programs that need access to the 
UART's registers, and that is something that I sometimes need for work. Some of 
us have to deal with decades-old hardware that still does what it was intended 
to do, is still maintainable, and that would be very expensive for a client to 
replace.

Dale H. Cook, GR / HP Collector, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA
http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html 

Re: .IMD diskette image file recovery

[Fred Cisin]

> Is there a utility that will read .IMD diskette archive files and 
> recover the data?


"Data"??!?
Well, you already have the DATA, every last bit.
Maybe what you want is the INFORMATION, in the form of the FILES.

All too often, people will use "data" to describe the contents, which 
could be at MANY different levels.  And, of couse, some will be shocked, 
amazed, and offended that anybody could possibly interpret something so 
obvious in any way other than as they do.


From .IMD files, with appropriate additional software, it is possible to 
recreate a "clone" duplicate on a disk, a binary image file of all of the 
bytes on the disk (in the order that they appear on the track), 
as mentioned next:

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016, curiousma...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, if you download the original imd, in the package there is a simple 
to use command line utility to do just that. Writing from memory, 
IMD2BIN.EXE or something like that.


OR, a copy of one or all of the sectors on the disk (with or without the 
"metadata" of the headers), the files from the disk (requires software 
that understands the filesystem), or the information within the data 
within the files (obvious with a glance at a Wordstar file without 
Wordstar, and grossly and horribly apparent trying to derive text from 
Weird, WordPervert, or any other "modern" word processor)


[And, of course, in situations OTHER than this one, one can not always 
look at the world as "files" consisting of a sequential stream of bytes.]



While it is, of course, obvious [to you] what you mean, you need to be 
aware that some of us have bizarre alternate interpretations of what it 
means to extract the "data" from a disk or disk image.


curiousmarc3 seems to assume that you want a file containing the bytes on 
the disk in the order that they are on the disk (BTW, sectors are not 
always in consecutive order, and files can be fragmented all over a disk), 
whereas I am assuming that you want a bunch of separate files, each of 
which contains the bytes that were in a file on the original disk, and 
rearranged into the sequence that they were within those files on the 
original disk.




From Data, we can derive Information.
From Information, we can derive Knowledge.

(That is the "DWI pyramid" of Information Science.)
Most of us have extended that to include:

From Knowledge, we can derive Enlightenment.  (literally thousands of

independently derived postulates)
A few of us have extended that to include that Data is derived from Chaos, 
and that Chaos is derived from Enlightenment.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: Bull DPX/2 and B.O.S. help wanted.

[Pontus]

It looks like this, this is not ours:

http://www.1000bit.it/lista/dpx2.jpg

On 02/04/2016 01:17 AM, Kevin Bowling wrote:

Can you take some pictures of that system?  Sounds interesting.  I had a
DPX/20 at one time which was basically an IBM RS/6000.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:


Hi

I'm trying to boot a Bull DPX/2 and got stuck waiting for NFS to do
something, at least that is what I believe.

Is there anyone on the list with B.O.S experience that could help me
bring the sytem up under some kind of single user environment without
network.

I have a OS install kit with bootable floppies and I managed to get a
prompt using the "boot_unix" floppy and following the manuals that I
have.

However, not even "ls" would work from this prompt, only "cat". (You are
supposed to enter "os_install", but I don't want to mess up the existing
installtion.


/P

Virtualizing AIX 1.3 - WAS::::Re: AIX for IBM PS/2

[Jerry Kemp]

All this AIX 1.x on Intel talk has me wanting to look at it deeper.

Does anyone have AIX 1.3 running on VirtualBox ?

Thanks,

Jerry




On 02/ 3/16 11:24 AM, supervinx wrote:


This is a dual booting PS/2 (OS/2 and AiX), configured using kev009
floppy images and instructions...
http://www.supervinx.com/OnlineMuseum/IBM/8595/AJF/

Re: Virtualizing AIX 1.3 - WAS::::Re: AIX for IBM PS/2

[Jonathan Katz]

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:15 AM, Jerry Kemp  wrote:
> All this AIX 1.x on Intel talk has me wanting to look at it deeper.
>
> Does anyone have AIX 1.3 running on VirtualBox ?
>
> Thanks,

This was talked about a while back. The PS/2 (x86) version of AIX
required some specific hardware with an MCA bus and oddball SCSI chips
that are not emulated in any modern emulator (VMWare, VirtualBox,
etc.) Supposedly there was a later beta version of AIX for x86 that
had support for more standard ISA and SCSI hardware but it never made
it outside IBM.